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Re: Bober, Russia? #general

Alexander Sharon
 

"Irv Osterer" wrote

I am trying to determine if there is a place in Russia called Bober.
A Levine family came to Canada in 1908 >from Russia. All one of the family
members could remember is that the town was named Bober.

Thanks for any help you can give me

Irv,

Bober is known nowadays as Bobr in Belarus.

There are 27 entries for Bobr, Belarus in JGFF database.

BTW. Bober (Bobr) means Beaver

Alexander Sharon
Calgary, AB, Canada
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Bober, Russia? #general

Alexander Sharon
 

"Irv Osterer" wrote

I am trying to determine if there is a place in Russia called Bober.
A Levine family came to Canada in 1908 >from Russia. All one of the family
members could remember is that the town was named Bober.

Thanks for any help you can give me

Irv,

Bober is known nowadays as Bobr in Belarus.

There are 27 entries for Bobr, Belarus in JGFF database.

BTW. Bober (Bobr) means Beaver

Alexander Sharon
Calgary, AB, Canada
Vilijampole and Kaunas burial societies including Adler's #general

Ada Green
 

Several years ago I cataloged the Slabodka (Vilijampole) landsmanshaftn
plots located in 3 Jewish cemeteries in Queens, NY and submitted the data
totalling about 475 burials to the JewishGen Online Worldwide Burial
Registry (JOWBR).2

In the past week I have looked up the death certificates of everyone in
these plots who died in New York City prior to 1949 and in New Jersey prior
to 1941 (death certificates after 1948 in NYC and after 1940 in NJ are not
publicly available on microfilm). When it was noted on the death
certificate, I have now added the names of the deceased's parents to my
JOWBR templates. The revised data will be submitted to the JOWBR by the
end of the month.

An index of Slabodker deceased (arranged alphabetically by first name and
given name) and the names of their parents that I gleaned >from the death
certificates can be found
at <http://home.att.net/~kovno/slabodkerburials.htm>. Additional
information about the deceased, including date of death, age, name of
spouse, Hebrew name, and location of cemetery can be found in the JOWBR at
<http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/cemetery/>.

On a grander scale, I have cataloged the burials in the 19 Kovno (Kaunas)
landsmanshaftn plots in the New York City metropolitan area totalling 5480
burials and in the past 6 weeks have looked up the New York City and New
Jersey death certificates for approximately 1/3 of the burials and for the
same years as the Slabodka plots. The Kovno burial society data will be
submitted to the JOWBR for the first time by the end of this month
(although it won't be available online until the next time the JOWBR is
updated).

In the interim an index of the Kovner deceased and the names of their
parents gleaned >from the death certificates can be found at
<http://home.att.net/~kovno/kovnerburials.htm>. For those of us still not
on high-speed internet access, this file may take a minute or two to appear
because of its large size.

The entries without the blue background are buried in Kovno landsmanshaftn
plots that specifically have the word "Kovner" or "Kovna" in the society's
name. That does not mean though that everyone in these plots came >from or
had roots in Kaunas or even Lithuania in general.

The entries with the blue background are buried in the Adler's Young Men
Association, which is a society primarily for immigrants >from Kovno
according to "Zikhroynes fun a shrifzetser", a memoir in Yiddish by Samuel
Schoenfeld, published by YIVO in 1946, which talks about this society
around page 50.

I can vouch for two of my ancestors buried the Adler's Young Men
Association: Mayer S. LANGMAN was born in Kaunas according to his actual
Lithuanian birth record and his brother, Jacob, was married in
Kaunas. However, >from the "truth in advertising department" a good number
of the people in the Adler's Young Men Association, perhaps a majority,
were >from places outside of Lithuania according to their death certificate
-- Austria, Poland, Roumania, Hungary, etc. The reason I indicated these
names in blue is so that I don't give a false impression that these people
were definitely >from Lithuania in general or Kovno in particular when they
weren't necessarily.

Regardless of whether or not the deceased was of Litvak origin, if you have
any corrections to or additional information for either the Slabodka or
Kovno landsmanshaftn burial data, including the Adler's Young Men Assn.,
please let me know privately and I will edit my JOWBR templates before I
submit them to the JOWBR.

The primary purpose in my posting this message though is in the hope that
you will recognize your Vilijampole and/or Kaunas ancestors and relatives,
want to learn more about them and their ancestors through Lithuanian
archival records, and join the LitvakSIG Kaunas district research
group. For further information about this, please contact me privately.

Ada Green
LitvakSIG Kaunas district research group co-ordinator
adagreen@...
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Vilijampole and Kaunas burial societies including Adler's #general

Ada Green
 

Several years ago I cataloged the Slabodka (Vilijampole) landsmanshaftn
plots located in 3 Jewish cemeteries in Queens, NY and submitted the data
totalling about 475 burials to the JewishGen Online Worldwide Burial
Registry (JOWBR).2

In the past week I have looked up the death certificates of everyone in
these plots who died in New York City prior to 1949 and in New Jersey prior
to 1941 (death certificates after 1948 in NYC and after 1940 in NJ are not
publicly available on microfilm). When it was noted on the death
certificate, I have now added the names of the deceased's parents to my
JOWBR templates. The revised data will be submitted to the JOWBR by the
end of the month.

An index of Slabodker deceased (arranged alphabetically by first name and
given name) and the names of their parents that I gleaned >from the death
certificates can be found
at <http://home.att.net/~kovno/slabodkerburials.htm>. Additional
information about the deceased, including date of death, age, name of
spouse, Hebrew name, and location of cemetery can be found in the JOWBR at
<http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/cemetery/>.

On a grander scale, I have cataloged the burials in the 19 Kovno (Kaunas)
landsmanshaftn plots in the New York City metropolitan area totalling 5480
burials and in the past 6 weeks have looked up the New York City and New
Jersey death certificates for approximately 1/3 of the burials and for the
same years as the Slabodka plots. The Kovno burial society data will be
submitted to the JOWBR for the first time by the end of this month
(although it won't be available online until the next time the JOWBR is
updated).

In the interim an index of the Kovner deceased and the names of their
parents gleaned >from the death certificates can be found at
<http://home.att.net/~kovno/kovnerburials.htm>. For those of us still not
on high-speed internet access, this file may take a minute or two to appear
because of its large size.

The entries without the blue background are buried in Kovno landsmanshaftn
plots that specifically have the word "Kovner" or "Kovna" in the society's
name. That does not mean though that everyone in these plots came >from or
had roots in Kaunas or even Lithuania in general.

The entries with the blue background are buried in the Adler's Young Men
Association, which is a society primarily for immigrants >from Kovno
according to "Zikhroynes fun a shrifzetser", a memoir in Yiddish by Samuel
Schoenfeld, published by YIVO in 1946, which talks about this society
around page 50.

I can vouch for two of my ancestors buried the Adler's Young Men
Association: Mayer S. LANGMAN was born in Kaunas according to his actual
Lithuanian birth record and his brother, Jacob, was married in
Kaunas. However, >from the "truth in advertising department" a good number
of the people in the Adler's Young Men Association, perhaps a majority,
were >from places outside of Lithuania according to their death certificate
-- Austria, Poland, Roumania, Hungary, etc. The reason I indicated these
names in blue is so that I don't give a false impression that these people
were definitely >from Lithuania in general or Kovno in particular when they
weren't necessarily.

Regardless of whether or not the deceased was of Litvak origin, if you have
any corrections to or additional information for either the Slabodka or
Kovno landsmanshaftn burial data, including the Adler's Young Men Assn.,
please let me know privately and I will edit my JOWBR templates before I
submit them to the JOWBR.

The primary purpose in my posting this message though is in the hope that
you will recognize your Vilijampole and/or Kaunas ancestors and relatives,
want to learn more about them and their ancestors through Lithuanian
archival records, and join the LitvakSIG Kaunas district research
group. For further information about this, please contact me privately.

Ada Green
LitvakSIG Kaunas district research group co-ordinator
adagreen@...
Re: relationships on Yad VaShem form #general

Stan Goodman <SPAM_FOILER@...>
 

On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 15:19:20 UTC, exjxw.hannivoort@... (Evertjan.)
opined:

Stan Goodman wrote on 19 dec 2004 in soc.genealogy.jewish:

Actually, the form asks "What is your relationship to the deceased",
which seems clear.
Yes, to a genealogist.

No, to a normal human being
I like to think that even genealogists are normal human beings.


Two answers possible for the latter with the same relationship:

[I am his] grandson

[He is my] granddad
That is not the case. I have been asked about *my* relationship to X; *my*
relationship is that of a grandson to a grandfather; hence "[I am
his] grandson". I cannot answer the question with "grandfather".

"Grandson" and "grandfather" are both relationships. The question was: "What
is your relationship?" If I am his grandson, then my relationship is
"grandson". If I answer the question with a complete sentence rather than a
fragment (by removing your brackets, for example), the problem disappears:
"He's my grandfather" explains all.

It isn't a matter of being a genealogist or not; personally, I am an
engineer, for example, though I have many interests. It is instead a matter
of paying attention to the question before answering it. If you tell me that
"normal people" often don't do that, I am inclined to agree.

--
Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better). the URL is:
http://www.hashkedim.com

For reasons connected with anti-spam/junk security, the return address is
not valid. To communicate with me, please visit my website (see the URL
above -- no Java required for this purpose) and fill in the email form
there.
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: relationships on Yad VaShem form #general

Stan Goodman <SPAM_FOILER@...>
 

On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 15:19:20 UTC, exjxw.hannivoort@... (Evertjan.)
opined:

Stan Goodman wrote on 19 dec 2004 in soc.genealogy.jewish:

Actually, the form asks "What is your relationship to the deceased",
which seems clear.
Yes, to a genealogist.

No, to a normal human being
I like to think that even genealogists are normal human beings.


Two answers possible for the latter with the same relationship:

[I am his] grandson

[He is my] granddad
That is not the case. I have been asked about *my* relationship to X; *my*
relationship is that of a grandson to a grandfather; hence "[I am
his] grandson". I cannot answer the question with "grandfather".

"Grandson" and "grandfather" are both relationships. The question was: "What
is your relationship?" If I am his grandson, then my relationship is
"grandson". If I answer the question with a complete sentence rather than a
fragment (by removing your brackets, for example), the problem disappears:
"He's my grandfather" explains all.

It isn't a matter of being a genealogist or not; personally, I am an
engineer, for example, though I have many interests. It is instead a matter
of paying attention to the question before answering it. If you tell me that
"normal people" often don't do that, I am inclined to agree.

--
Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better). the URL is:
http://www.hashkedim.com

For reasons connected with anti-spam/junk security, the return address is
not valid. To communicate with me, please visit my website (see the URL
above -- no Java required for this purpose) and fill in the email form
there.
Reinhold/British Intell.--Thank You! #general

bbaum
 

In the last few days I have received many wonderful suggestions on how
to proceed in my seach for my brother. I am so very gratefull to all of you
who took the time to write back. My son and I have looked over your responses
would like to make a few comments. (He has been of immense help to me in this
project--even spending several days at the public records office (PRO) in Kew
outside London.)
First, some of you have suggested we carry out our seach in the Jewish
Chronicle. In fact, we have. Ads were placed in 2000 or 2001, but there was
no response.
Second, many have suggested we conduct a far more public campaign in
the Uk and elsewhere by using the press. The temptation to "go public" is
great. But we are reluctant to do so because it can also be counterproductive.
If my brother was given a new identity by British intelligence, it was to protect
him and, presumably, the family he since had. I do not want to put any of
them in jeapordy with a full-blown public campaign. I think it is better to be
more discreet for the time being.
Third, in my corrrespondence with MI-5 (MI-6 deferred all questions to
MI-5), I specifically told them that I do *not need* to know his new identity or
his address. I merely want someone >from that office to act as a third-party
and contact my brother to let him know his sister is sill alive and very much
wants to hear >from him again after more than five decades. MI-5 responded in
our last letter that my brother *left* the UK (in 1948) for another country
which they would not name, but hinted it was within the British Commonwealth. My
son's research narrowed it down to Australia, South Africa or Canada---in that
order of probability. MI-5 proceeded to get in touch with that country's
intelligence office to see if they still have records of my brother.
Unfortunately, that other country could not locate his records any longer. (This
seemed a bit strange to us.)
So that is where matters stand today.
I will write to some public British officials as few of you have
suggested (PM Blair, the chief Rabbi of London, and etc) and will continue to
stay in touch with all of you.
Again, my deepest thanks to all for your help.

Eva Berlin
evaberlin@...
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Reinhold/British Intell.--Thank You! #general

bbaum
 

In the last few days I have received many wonderful suggestions on how
to proceed in my seach for my brother. I am so very gratefull to all of you
who took the time to write back. My son and I have looked over your responses
would like to make a few comments. (He has been of immense help to me in this
project--even spending several days at the public records office (PRO) in Kew
outside London.)
First, some of you have suggested we carry out our seach in the Jewish
Chronicle. In fact, we have. Ads were placed in 2000 or 2001, but there was
no response.
Second, many have suggested we conduct a far more public campaign in
the Uk and elsewhere by using the press. The temptation to "go public" is
great. But we are reluctant to do so because it can also be counterproductive.
If my brother was given a new identity by British intelligence, it was to protect
him and, presumably, the family he since had. I do not want to put any of
them in jeapordy with a full-blown public campaign. I think it is better to be
more discreet for the time being.
Third, in my corrrespondence with MI-5 (MI-6 deferred all questions to
MI-5), I specifically told them that I do *not need* to know his new identity or
his address. I merely want someone >from that office to act as a third-party
and contact my brother to let him know his sister is sill alive and very much
wants to hear >from him again after more than five decades. MI-5 responded in
our last letter that my brother *left* the UK (in 1948) for another country
which they would not name, but hinted it was within the British Commonwealth. My
son's research narrowed it down to Australia, South Africa or Canada---in that
order of probability. MI-5 proceeded to get in touch with that country's
intelligence office to see if they still have records of my brother.
Unfortunately, that other country could not locate his records any longer. (This
seemed a bit strange to us.)
So that is where matters stand today.
I will write to some public British officials as few of you have
suggested (PM Blair, the chief Rabbi of London, and etc) and will continue to
stay in touch with all of you.
Again, my deepest thanks to all for your help.

Eva Berlin
evaberlin@...
Re: REINHOLD and British Intelligence #general

backon@...
 

In your case I would take a different, more public approach. Your story
sounds like stuff that Newspapers and TV love. I don't know what the
biggest newspaper is in England or the major TV station. Talk to them
on doing a news story about you and your family and your search for your
brother. Reporters love this stuff. Intrigue, human interest, lost
person, person against big government. Sounds like a feature length
movie to me! Your brother may see the story and get in touch with
you. Good luck,

I just forwraded this message by email to the Editor of the Jewish
Chronicle.

Josh Backon
backon@...
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: REINHOLD and British Intelligence #general

backon@...
 

In your case I would take a different, more public approach. Your story
sounds like stuff that Newspapers and TV love. I don't know what the
biggest newspaper is in England or the major TV station. Talk to them
on doing a news story about you and your family and your search for your
brother. Reporters love this stuff. Intrigue, human interest, lost
person, person against big government. Sounds like a feature length
movie to me! Your brother may see the story and get in touch with
you. Good luck,

I just forwraded this message by email to the Editor of the Jewish
Chronicle.

Josh Backon
backon@...
Re: My Greatgrandparent's Marriage #general

Harry Dodsworth <af877@...>
 

Steve Morgan <morgansr@...> has problems in researching
his grandfather, Harry SPREI, and his parents, who seem to have
floated confusingly between Galicia, England and the United States.
He found a marriage between Max Sprei and Rachel Heim, who may have
been his great-grandparents, in Whitechapel, London in 1901.

I confirmed this marriage on the FreeBMD site
<http://www.freebmd.org.uk>
(the other marriage on the page was between Israel Kurchinsky and
Miriam Goldfarb - which might help someone :-)

With an uncommon name like Sprei, I checked births and there is
a birth in the June Quarter of 1902
Eve Sprei, Mile End Old Town 1c 444b

This looks like the Eva who landed with Regina (or Ruchel) in New York
in 1902. Mile End Old Town (sometimes shortened to MEOT) is immediately
east of Whitechapel.

I would order one or both of these certificates >from England to see
what information they have.
Also Max Sprei should be listed on the 1901 English census which was
enumerated after his marriage.

--
Harry Dodsworth Ottawa Ontario Canada af877@...
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: My Greatgrandparent's Marriage #general

Harry Dodsworth <af877@...>
 

Steve Morgan <morgansr@...> has problems in researching
his grandfather, Harry SPREI, and his parents, who seem to have
floated confusingly between Galicia, England and the United States.
He found a marriage between Max Sprei and Rachel Heim, who may have
been his great-grandparents, in Whitechapel, London in 1901.

I confirmed this marriage on the FreeBMD site
<http://www.freebmd.org.uk>
(the other marriage on the page was between Israel Kurchinsky and
Miriam Goldfarb - which might help someone :-)

With an uncommon name like Sprei, I checked births and there is
a birth in the June Quarter of 1902
Eve Sprei, Mile End Old Town 1c 444b

This looks like the Eva who landed with Regina (or Ruchel) in New York
in 1902. Mile End Old Town (sometimes shortened to MEOT) is immediately
east of Whitechapel.

I would order one or both of these certificates >from England to see
what information they have.
Also Max Sprei should be listed on the 1901 English census which was
enumerated after his marriage.

--
Harry Dodsworth Ottawa Ontario Canada af877@...
Meaning of "Rev" #lithuania

Deborah Hatch <deborahhatch@...>
 

Can someone explain what the title "Rev" signified in the early 20th
century about a man who was not a Rabbi? Was this an indication of
completing a Yeshiva course of study? Was it only appropriate for use
after a man reached a certain age? Thanks for your help.

Deborah Hatch
Lithuania SIG #Lithuania Meaning of "Rev" #lithuania

Deborah Hatch <deborahhatch@...>
 

Can someone explain what the title "Rev" signified in the early 20th
century about a man who was not a Rabbi? Was this an indication of
completing a Yeshiva course of study? Was it only appropriate for use
after a man reached a certain age? Thanks for your help.

Deborah Hatch
Re: Kursenai and Papile, Lithuania #general

Carol Baker
 

Both Kursenai and Papile are part of Siauliai Uyezd. There are no vital
records for any of the towns in the Siauliai District for the period of time
prior to 1922. We have checked all of the Lithuanian archives many times
and have been told that they were destroyed during World War II.

The Lithuanian State Historical Archive in Vilnius does have birth,
marriage, divorce and death records for Kursenai for the years 1922-1925.
As far as I know, they do not have any for Papile. For information about
obtaining these records, go to www.jewishgen.org/Litvak/faqs

Carol Coplin Baker
Siauliai District Research Group Coordinator
carolcbaker@...

From: marlene finkelstein <m51marlene@...>
Does anyone have any experience/success in locating late 19th century
through 1941 vital records (b/m/d) for Kursenai and Papile, Kovna Gub.? I
have not had any luck in finding my family on the All Lithuanian Database.
As per LitvakSig, the FHL does not have microfilms for these two towns.
Lithuania SIG #Lithuania Re: Kursenai and Papile, Lithuania #lithuania

Carol Baker
 

Both Kursenai and Papile are part of Siauliai Uyezd. There are no vital
records for any of the towns in the Siauliai District for the period of time
prior to 1922. We have checked all of the Lithuanian archives many times
and have been told that they were destroyed during World War II.

The Lithuanian State Historical Archive in Vilnius does have birth,
marriage, divorce and death records for Kursenai for the years 1922-1925.
As far as I know, they do not have any for Papile. For information about
obtaining these records, go to www.jewishgen.org/Litvak/faqs

Carol Coplin Baker
Siauliai District Research Group Coordinator
carolcbaker@...

From: marlene finkelstein <m51marlene@...>
Does anyone have any experience/success in locating late 19th century
through 1941 vital records (b/m/d) for Kursenai and Papile, Kovna Gub.? I
have not had any luck in finding my family on the All Lithuanian Database.
As per LitvakSig, the FHL does not have microfilms for these two towns.
The change from ALPEROVICH to ALPERT #belarus

Ziegelman <zieg_exp@...>
 

How did Alperovitches >from Kurenitz, Postawy and Vileika all come to change
their family name >from Alperovitch to Alpert? I wonder why they all didn't
change their name to the more logical "Alper?" When was this change first
made, and how did people in different shetls learn about it?
Kind regards,
Andi Alpert (formerly Alperovitch) Ziegelman
Searching:
Alperovitch in Vileika , Postawy and Kurenitz, and maybe Dokshitz and Miadel
Feinberg in Kovarsk
Mishler/Mysli/Mishuli/Misuli >from Vilkomir
Cohen (or some variation of Cohen) >from Vilkomir
Belarus SIG #Belarus The change from ALPEROVICH to ALPERT #belarus

Ziegelman <zieg_exp@...>
 

How did Alperovitches >from Kurenitz, Postawy and Vileika all come to change
their family name >from Alperovitch to Alpert? I wonder why they all didn't
change their name to the more logical "Alper?" When was this change first
made, and how did people in different shetls learn about it?
Kind regards,
Andi Alpert (formerly Alperovitch) Ziegelman
Searching:
Alperovitch in Vileika , Postawy and Kurenitz, and maybe Dokshitz and Miadel
Feinberg in Kovarsk
Mishler/Mysli/Mishuli/Misuli >from Vilkomir
Cohen (or some variation of Cohen) >from Vilkomir
Dickman marriage certificate #general

Natalie Kutner <natalie.kutner@...>
 

I have a Brooklyn, NY marriage certificate for Nathan Dickman and Anne Krug
dated August 8, 1914, which is not my Nathan Dickman. If this is your family
I will send you the certificate.
Natalie Kutner
Denver, CO
Help with Old German & Polish Translation #general

Barbara Ellman <barbaraellman@...>
 

Dear Genners,

In my earlier post I asked for assistance in translation for what I had
incorrectly identified as Russian. Kind people have corrected me. One is
in Polish and 3 in Old German.

I ask again for assistance in this translation.

In Polish:
http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=5221

In Old German:
http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=5222

http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=5223

http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=5224

Please respond privately. Thanks in advance.

Barbara Ellman
barbaraellman@...
Searching: KAGLE , FASS, GREISMAN (Ulanow, Poland)
ELLMAN, COIRA, MAIDMAN, DICK, DICKER (Minkovtsy, Ukraine)
GOLDSTEIN, HALPERN, HIRSCHHORN (Janow/Ivano-Frankovo, Ukraine)
HIRSCHHORN, WEISSTEIN (Chorostkow, Ukraine)
HASSMANN, HAUSMAN, KOCH, LUCHS, FURST, SONENTHALER, SONENTHAL (Drohobycz &
Boryslaw, Ukraine)
393741 - 393760 of 669642