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Re: Who lived in the shetls? #general

Tilford Bartman <bartmant@...>
 

Hi,

In my families Shetl of Zabludow Poland the Polish peasants generally
did not live in town but in the surrounding countryside. The Towns
non-Jews were both Catholic and Russian Orthodox. In the 1600's the town
was a stronghold of the Protestant Calvinist Church. In the early 20th
Century the town's non-Jews worked in the leather factories that were
owned by Jews. They also were shopkeepers and artisans, though the Jews
held most of these occupations. On Saturday night or early Sunday
morning the peasants >from the surrounding countryside would come in to
town. Many walked with their shoes slung over their shoulders- not to
waste their one pair of shoes. On Sunday they would attend Church. Many
would stay in town Sunday night renting sleeping space >from Jewish
families, and then attend market day on Monday. The taverns were also
owned by Jews, and they would fill up with the peasants. Sometimes there
would be fights between Jewish and Polish tuffs. In these fights the
towns non-Jews would root for "their Jews" over the "foreign" peasants.
The Jewish population of the town was concentrated in the center of town
but not exclusively. My families Smith Shop was located just outside
the center of town on the opposite side of the little Rudnia River, and
right on it's banks. I think this was an ideal spot in part due to the
fire danger. The Shul Hoif (synagogue square) was located some distance
from both the Catholic and Orthodox Churches. In addition to the wooden
synagogue there was a large study house, a mikvah building that also
contained a Yiddish library, and an office of a cooperative loan society
that was set up in the 1920's with the aide of Landsmenshaften in New
York and Chicago. Behind the synagogue I believe on the East side was a
very small but extremely old cemetery surrounded by a small fence. In
this small cemetery was buried a bride and groom in the late 1600's who
were stricken by "plague" under the hupa, and died days latter. It was
forbidden for children to climb that fence and go into the cemetery. The
fear was that if they did so they would be visited by luck. There were
two other larger cemeteries on the edge of town. One called the old
cemetery and one called the new cemetery. There were also four smaller
Beit Hamidrash (prayer or study houses) in town the most well known
being the Bilsk Street Beit Hamidrash which was located very close to
the Orthodox Church, and right next the the Bilsk Street Beit Hamidrash
was the Rabbi's house. Today all of this is entirely gone except the
Rabbi's house is still there, and there is a pathetic remnant of the
"new" cemetery that contains not a single Matzevah, but only the flat
stones in the ground upon which they sat, and an Ohl that I think is to
Rabbi Avraham Akivah Subotnik the towns Rabbi 1904-24. The Hebrew
inscription on the Rabbi's Ohl is the only thing I've found in the town
that would give you any idea that Jewish people ever lived there.
Everything else is gone. The towns first Jews came in the early 1520's,
and were a majority of the towns population >from sometime in the mid to
late 1600's until the Jewish communities destruction during WW II.

Tilford Bartman, www.zabludow.com

Joan Rosen wrote:

Re: the question >from Tereasa Lenius

"Perhaps this is a silly question, but, did only Jews live in the Shetls
found using the Shetl seeker? I know that my Great grandfather and all of
his brothers were born in a Nowa Wies (which one I don't know). I know
absolutely nothing about these villages. Also, I would like to thank all of
you who have answered my previous message. It is wonderful to know that
people are willing to help. Thank you again. "

from a course I took in Eastern European Jewish history which dealt, among
other things, with life in the shtetl, yes indeed non-Jews lived
there---those of the peasant class did live with the Jews, though not
necessarily in the same part of the town. The peasants were customers of
the Jews who ran the stalls/stores in the marketplace.
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Who lived in the shetls? #general

Tilford Bartman <bartmant@...>
 

Hi,

In my families Shetl of Zabludow Poland the Polish peasants generally
did not live in town but in the surrounding countryside. The Towns
non-Jews were both Catholic and Russian Orthodox. In the 1600's the town
was a stronghold of the Protestant Calvinist Church. In the early 20th
Century the town's non-Jews worked in the leather factories that were
owned by Jews. They also were shopkeepers and artisans, though the Jews
held most of these occupations. On Saturday night or early Sunday
morning the peasants >from the surrounding countryside would come in to
town. Many walked with their shoes slung over their shoulders- not to
waste their one pair of shoes. On Sunday they would attend Church. Many
would stay in town Sunday night renting sleeping space >from Jewish
families, and then attend market day on Monday. The taverns were also
owned by Jews, and they would fill up with the peasants. Sometimes there
would be fights between Jewish and Polish tuffs. In these fights the
towns non-Jews would root for "their Jews" over the "foreign" peasants.
The Jewish population of the town was concentrated in the center of town
but not exclusively. My families Smith Shop was located just outside
the center of town on the opposite side of the little Rudnia River, and
right on it's banks. I think this was an ideal spot in part due to the
fire danger. The Shul Hoif (synagogue square) was located some distance
from both the Catholic and Orthodox Churches. In addition to the wooden
synagogue there was a large study house, a mikvah building that also
contained a Yiddish library, and an office of a cooperative loan society
that was set up in the 1920's with the aide of Landsmenshaften in New
York and Chicago. Behind the synagogue I believe on the East side was a
very small but extremely old cemetery surrounded by a small fence. In
this small cemetery was buried a bride and groom in the late 1600's who
were stricken by "plague" under the hupa, and died days latter. It was
forbidden for children to climb that fence and go into the cemetery. The
fear was that if they did so they would be visited by luck. There were
two other larger cemeteries on the edge of town. One called the old
cemetery and one called the new cemetery. There were also four smaller
Beit Hamidrash (prayer or study houses) in town the most well known
being the Bilsk Street Beit Hamidrash which was located very close to
the Orthodox Church, and right next the the Bilsk Street Beit Hamidrash
was the Rabbi's house. Today all of this is entirely gone except the
Rabbi's house is still there, and there is a pathetic remnant of the
"new" cemetery that contains not a single Matzevah, but only the flat
stones in the ground upon which they sat, and an Ohl that I think is to
Rabbi Avraham Akivah Subotnik the towns Rabbi 1904-24. The Hebrew
inscription on the Rabbi's Ohl is the only thing I've found in the town
that would give you any idea that Jewish people ever lived there.
Everything else is gone. The towns first Jews came in the early 1520's,
and were a majority of the towns population >from sometime in the mid to
late 1600's until the Jewish communities destruction during WW II.

Tilford Bartman, www.zabludow.com

Joan Rosen wrote:

Re: the question >from Tereasa Lenius

"Perhaps this is a silly question, but, did only Jews live in the Shetls
found using the Shetl seeker? I know that my Great grandfather and all of
his brothers were born in a Nowa Wies (which one I don't know). I know
absolutely nothing about these villages. Also, I would like to thank all of
you who have answered my previous message. It is wonderful to know that
people are willing to help. Thank you again. "

from a course I took in Eastern European Jewish history which dealt, among
other things, with life in the shtetl, yes indeed non-Jews lived
there---those of the peasant class did live with the Jews, though not
necessarily in the same part of the town. The peasants were customers of
the Jews who ran the stalls/stores in the marketplace.
1904 Poland Industrial Directory-Why Not In Russian? #poland

Abuwasta Abuwasta
 

The simple answer to Jean-Pierre Stroweis's question
is that the directory is not an official document but
a private initiative targeted at the local population
which was Polish and more important, Polish
speaking. In a way it is like any directory published
in the USA for Vietnamese or Russian immigrants or by
Arab publisher in Nazareth or Jaffa for the use of the
local Arab population.

The directory's Price is quoted in Russian rubles(3
Rubles).

Jacob Rosen
Jerusalem

So, how comes that the 1904 industrial directory was
written in Polish?
were written between 1868 and 1918.
Jean-Pierre Stroweis
Jerusalem, Israel
JRI Poland #Poland 1904 Poland Industrial Directory-Why Not In Russian? #poland

Abuwasta Abuwasta
 

The simple answer to Jean-Pierre Stroweis's question
is that the directory is not an official document but
a private initiative targeted at the local population
which was Polish and more important, Polish
speaking. In a way it is like any directory published
in the USA for Vietnamese or Russian immigrants or by
Arab publisher in Nazareth or Jaffa for the use of the
local Arab population.

The directory's Price is quoted in Russian rubles(3
Rubles).

Jacob Rosen
Jerusalem

So, how comes that the 1904 industrial directory was
written in Polish?
were written between 1868 and 1918.
Jean-Pierre Stroweis
Jerusalem, Israel
Amended surname SHERIL in Viewmate 5905 #lithuania

Yehudh bn Shlmo
 

Dear Litvaksig,

Thank you very much for your translations. I was told
by several people that on Viewmate 5905 for the birth
of Hirsch BLOSHTEYN in Keidan Lithuania, there is a
box which shows a name amendment of SHERIL in the
father's name. The name of the father was Dovid ben
Girsh Bloshteyn. I am assuming this is for the Surname
and not his first name since SHERIL would be a
feminine name (at least in Hebrew).

If the surname was SHERIL and at sometime changed to
BLOSHTEYN/BLUESTEIN, it seems like a very odd last
name. Is anyone familiar with the name SHERIL from
Lithuania?

Sincerely,
Yehudah BenShlomo
Texas, U.S.A.
Lithuania SIG #Lithuania Amended surname SHERIL in Viewmate 5905 #lithuania

Yehudh bn Shlmo
 

Dear Litvaksig,

Thank you very much for your translations. I was told
by several people that on Viewmate 5905 for the birth
of Hirsch BLOSHTEYN in Keidan Lithuania, there is a
box which shows a name amendment of SHERIL in the
father's name. The name of the father was Dovid ben
Girsh Bloshteyn. I am assuming this is for the Surname
and not his first name since SHERIL would be a
feminine name (at least in Hebrew).

If the surname was SHERIL and at sometime changed to
BLOSHTEYN/BLUESTEIN, it seems like a very odd last
name. Is anyone familiar with the name SHERIL from
Lithuania?

Sincerely,
Yehudah BenShlomo
Texas, U.S.A.
Mickey from Slabodke #lithuania

Ted Ashkenazy <tia@...>
 

Perhaps someone down in Australia knows or knew this man. As a DP he
emigrated to Australia >from Munich in 1949. He may have travelled with
his Russian girlfriend. Unfortunately I never knew his last name. Please
respond privately. Thank you.

Ted Ashkenazy
tia@vdn.ca
(Montreal, Canada)
Lithuania SIG #Lithuania Mickey from Slabodke #lithuania

Ted Ashkenazy <tia@...>
 

Perhaps someone down in Australia knows or knew this man. As a DP he
emigrated to Australia >from Munich in 1949. He may have travelled with
his Russian girlfriend. Unfortunately I never knew his last name. Please
respond privately. Thank you.

Ted Ashkenazy
tia@vdn.ca
(Montreal, Canada)
we need everybody's help here #belarus

Carol W. Skydell <cskydell@...>
 

Folks,
I am a member of the Belarus Transition Team working to ensure continuation
of the outstanding contribution Dave Fox provided for so many years. We
need to get a handle on the names of every donor or volunteer who worked
on any project on behalf of the SIG.

If you contributed in any way, shape or form, please tell us the project on
which you worked and your role in that project, be it large or small.

Please respond to me privately with your name, JGID, and the project and
role you played.

Many thanks in advance
Carol

Carol W. Skydell, Vice President
JewishGen Special Projects
Belarus SIG #Belarus we need everybody's help here #belarus

Carol W. Skydell <cskydell@...>
 

Folks,
I am a member of the Belarus Transition Team working to ensure continuation
of the outstanding contribution Dave Fox provided for so many years. We
need to get a handle on the names of every donor or volunteer who worked
on any project on behalf of the SIG.

If you contributed in any way, shape or form, please tell us the project on
which you worked and your role in that project, be it large or small.

Please respond to me privately with your name, JGID, and the project and
role you played.

Many thanks in advance
Carol

Carol W. Skydell, Vice President
JewishGen Special Projects
Roslyn DIAMOND #general

David Edelman <pappapeach@...>
 

Dear JewishGen;
While searching through some other genealogy sites, I found a posting
from a ROSLYN DIAMOND, looking for a couple, STEIN-ROSENBERG, from
Dvinsk, Latvia.
Since my STEIN-ROSENBERG are >from the same town, I was anxious to get
in contact with her. However, I have been unable to.
Although I do not see her listed with the JGFF, I do know there are
some people named DIAMOND on the list, so I am hoping someone here
knows her. So, if anyone knows her or of her, please have her contact
me, privetly, of course.
Thank you very much,
David Edelman,
San Francisco.
pappapeach@gmail.com
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Roslyn DIAMOND #general

David Edelman <pappapeach@...>
 

Dear JewishGen;
While searching through some other genealogy sites, I found a posting
from a ROSLYN DIAMOND, looking for a couple, STEIN-ROSENBERG, from
Dvinsk, Latvia.
Since my STEIN-ROSENBERG are >from the same town, I was anxious to get
in contact with her. However, I have been unable to.
Although I do not see her listed with the JGFF, I do know there are
some people named DIAMOND on the list, so I am hoping someone here
knows her. So, if anyone knows her or of her, please have her contact
me, privetly, of course.
Thank you very much,
David Edelman,
San Francisco.
pappapeach@gmail.com
Eta TOFFEL - Yiddish theater in NYC #general

Sheila Toffell
 

Has anyone any knowledge of Eta TOFFEL (spelling may not be correct) who was
apparently involved in the Yiddish Theater in NYC?

My nephew is a doctoral student in London, and is doing research on the
Yiddish theater. He came across a reference to Eta TOFFEL in a book he found
in junk shop. As the name is the same as ours, we are intrigued.

Can anyone help enlighten him (and me)?

MODERATOR NOTE: JewishGen hosts the Yiddish Theater and Vaudeville Research
Group. One of its goals is to "provide an electronic discussion group in
the form of a JewishGen Yt and V mailing list for those genealogists tracing
relatives who were involved in Yiddish theater and/or vaudeville in any
capacity, in any location, and in any time period".
Please consider posting your message there as well.
You can find more at:
http://www.jewishgen.org/InfoFiles/ytheatre.txt
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Eta TOFFEL - Yiddish theater in NYC #general

Sheila Toffell
 

Has anyone any knowledge of Eta TOFFEL (spelling may not be correct) who was
apparently involved in the Yiddish Theater in NYC?

My nephew is a doctoral student in London, and is doing research on the
Yiddish theater. He came across a reference to Eta TOFFEL in a book he found
in junk shop. As the name is the same as ours, we are intrigued.

Can anyone help enlighten him (and me)?

MODERATOR NOTE: JewishGen hosts the Yiddish Theater and Vaudeville Research
Group. One of its goals is to "provide an electronic discussion group in
the form of a JewishGen Yt and V mailing list for those genealogists tracing
relatives who were involved in Yiddish theater and/or vaudeville in any
capacity, in any location, and in any time period".
Please consider posting your message there as well.
You can find more at:
http://www.jewishgen.org/InfoFiles/ytheatre.txt
Re: Origins of people around the world #dna

Jeff Malka <malkajef@...>
 

On 2005.04.14, I wrote:

I heard on CNN about a project to determine the distant origins
of peoples around the world using DNA. Are you involved in this
world-wide project and would it provide useful additional data to
the genealogical DNA research you do?
Thanks for all who replied. I have followed the links provided and
will follow with interest.

Jeff Malk
DNA Research #DNA RE: Origins of people around the world #dna

Jeff Malka <malkajef@...>
 

On 2005.04.14, I wrote:

I heard on CNN about a project to determine the distant origins
of peoples around the world using DNA. Are you involved in this
world-wide project and would it provide useful additional data to
the genealogical DNA research you do?
Thanks for all who replied. I have followed the links provided and
will follow with interest.

Jeff Malk
Intro: my German and Dutch U.K. ancestors #unitedkingdom

Pweinthal@...
 

Hello fellow genners.
I have researched my family history for 6 years. English is my native
language, though I speak or read several European languages badly including German,
Danish, Dutch, and French. I consider myself an advanced computer and library
researcher. Family members emigrated to England in the 19th century.
Resources examined include the Jewish Victorian, The Times of London, the London
Gazettes, and indexes to census records.

The WEINTHAL family dates back to the 1750s in Emden, Ost Friesland, Kingdom
of Hannover, Germany. My g-g-grandfather Solomon Joshua WEINTHAL (1827-1916)
married in the Great Synagogue of London on 5 August 1857. His wife was
Catherine BIERMAN (1832-1904) >from Amsterdam. Her Dutch name was Ketrien BEERMAN.
Her Hebrew name was Gitla bat Moshe. They lived in Whitechapel where Solomon
was a tailor.

I have birth certificates for 3 daughters, but cannot find certificates for
the 2 boys born in 1860 and 1865. Does anyone know how I can find Mohel bris
records?

In the 1860s, WEINTHAL family members >from Deventer and Rotterdam, NL moved
to Manchester and Chorlton (which I guess is a suburb of Manchester.) The
family was in the tobacco businesses.

I have an 1899 death certificates for Henrietta THEMANS (nee Weinthal). Her
second husband was tobacconist Joel THEMANS (1806-1928). Her nephew F.S.
BERLYN was in attendance at her death. Henrietta (born Jette) had a sister
Esther who married Simon BERLIJN >from Utrecht. The Themans lived at 309 Oxford
St., Manchester in 1871. They lived at Big Oxford Road, South Manchester U.D. in
1899. Henry THEMANS changed his surname to THORNSLEY in 1915. He was a
tobacconist and resided at 6 Poplar-avenue, Whalley Range, Manchester.

Adelaide STRANDERS (nee Weinthal) (1824-1884) was Henriette's sister. She was
an opera singer and in 1859 married the London jeweler David STRANDERS (his
second marriage). She died in Chorlton, Manchester.

I am also seek information about Asher WEINTHAL who declared bankruptcy in
August 1859. Warehouseman. Location: Cannon Street and elsewhere, London.

Adolph WEINTHAL was a composer and instructor. The British Library has 8
compositions written or arranged by him. The publication dates range >from 1874 to
1898. Several were published by W. Czerny and St. Cecilia. I've had no luck
finding any personal information.

Publisher Leo WEINTHAL, O.B.E., died at Sunbury-on-Thames in 1930. Married,
but no children.

Perhaps these names ring a bell, or our families travelled in similar
circles. Advice or information would be appreciated!

Patricia WEINTHAL
Boston, MA
USA

Researching:
WEINTHAL - D and NL> London and Manchester, UK >USA
BEERMAN / BIERMAN - NL > UK
BERLIJN/BERLYN - Utrecht, NL > Manchester, UK
STRANDERS - NL > UK
THEMANS - NL> Manchester, UK
THORNSLEY after 1915 - Manchester, UK
KUIT - NL> Scotland > Manchester, UK
LISENHEIM - Scotland
JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom Intro: my German and Dutch U.K. ancestors #unitedkingdom

Pweinthal@...
 

Hello fellow genners.
I have researched my family history for 6 years. English is my native
language, though I speak or read several European languages badly including German,
Danish, Dutch, and French. I consider myself an advanced computer and library
researcher. Family members emigrated to England in the 19th century.
Resources examined include the Jewish Victorian, The Times of London, the London
Gazettes, and indexes to census records.

The WEINTHAL family dates back to the 1750s in Emden, Ost Friesland, Kingdom
of Hannover, Germany. My g-g-grandfather Solomon Joshua WEINTHAL (1827-1916)
married in the Great Synagogue of London on 5 August 1857. His wife was
Catherine BIERMAN (1832-1904) >from Amsterdam. Her Dutch name was Ketrien BEERMAN.
Her Hebrew name was Gitla bat Moshe. They lived in Whitechapel where Solomon
was a tailor.

I have birth certificates for 3 daughters, but cannot find certificates for
the 2 boys born in 1860 and 1865. Does anyone know how I can find Mohel bris
records?

In the 1860s, WEINTHAL family members >from Deventer and Rotterdam, NL moved
to Manchester and Chorlton (which I guess is a suburb of Manchester.) The
family was in the tobacco businesses.

I have an 1899 death certificates for Henrietta THEMANS (nee Weinthal). Her
second husband was tobacconist Joel THEMANS (1806-1928). Her nephew F.S.
BERLYN was in attendance at her death. Henrietta (born Jette) had a sister
Esther who married Simon BERLIJN >from Utrecht. The Themans lived at 309 Oxford
St., Manchester in 1871. They lived at Big Oxford Road, South Manchester U.D. in
1899. Henry THEMANS changed his surname to THORNSLEY in 1915. He was a
tobacconist and resided at 6 Poplar-avenue, Whalley Range, Manchester.

Adelaide STRANDERS (nee Weinthal) (1824-1884) was Henriette's sister. She was
an opera singer and in 1859 married the London jeweler David STRANDERS (his
second marriage). She died in Chorlton, Manchester.

I am also seek information about Asher WEINTHAL who declared bankruptcy in
August 1859. Warehouseman. Location: Cannon Street and elsewhere, London.

Adolph WEINTHAL was a composer and instructor. The British Library has 8
compositions written or arranged by him. The publication dates range >from 1874 to
1898. Several were published by W. Czerny and St. Cecilia. I've had no luck
finding any personal information.

Publisher Leo WEINTHAL, O.B.E., died at Sunbury-on-Thames in 1930. Married,
but no children.

Perhaps these names ring a bell, or our families travelled in similar
circles. Advice or information would be appreciated!

Patricia WEINTHAL
Boston, MA
USA

Researching:
WEINTHAL - D and NL> London and Manchester, UK >USA
BEERMAN / BIERMAN - NL > UK
BERLIJN/BERLYN - Utrecht, NL > Manchester, UK
STRANDERS - NL > UK
THEMANS - NL> Manchester, UK
THORNSLEY after 1915 - Manchester, UK
KUIT - NL> Scotland > Manchester, UK
LISENHEIM - Scotland
Free Times trial #unitedkingdom

Sylvia Kaye <sylk@...>
 

Just to let you all know - the 1 week free trial of the UK Times on-line has
finished! Of course, I just HAD to give it one more try, but the password
is no longer valid. By the way, did anyone notice that they removed the
Ancestry link on Saturday?

I hope you all managed to take advantage of the trial - I certainly enjoyed
the opportunity!

Best wishes to you all for Pesach,

Sylvia Kaye
JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom Free Times trial #unitedkingdom

Sylvia Kaye <sylk@...>
 

Just to let you all know - the 1 week free trial of the UK Times on-line has
finished! Of course, I just HAD to give it one more try, but the password
is no longer valid. By the way, did anyone notice that they removed the
Ancestry link on Saturday?

I hope you all managed to take advantage of the trial - I certainly enjoyed
the opportunity!

Best wishes to you all for Pesach,

Sylvia Kaye
367601 - 367620 of 657792