Date   

Re: Firstname Emanuel in Poland,19th, with familyname MENDELSSOHN #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 8/18/2001 10:44:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
mendelssohn@worldonline.fr writes:

<<
I know for sure that my MENDELSSOHN gggfather, born in Poland around 1820,
was named "Emanuel" : he was registered under this firstname (...and with
this patronyme) in the 1870 Warszawa Business Directory .
BUT I found NO "Emanuel"(any family name) on the JRI-Poland data-bases of
the 19th century !
Thats why I suppose that any "Emanuel", born at that time, must have had a
second firstname (maybe "Mendel" ???).

I have 3 questions :
1) >from your experience about firstnames in Poland, under which
firstname should I research my "Emanuel"?

==You didn't say in which part of partitioned Poland he was born (Russia,
German or Austria). Certainly in Germanic lands, many parents registered
there little Mendels as Emmanuel (and as the 19th century progressed,
replaced Emmanuel with Emil). Mendel is the kinnuy for Menachem. Expect to
find your ancestor under any of these four names--or perhaps a fifth if he
so chose

2)If we suppose that he was born "Mendel", does it mean that he was
born without patronyme and that his children (the first was born in 1854)
were the first "Mendelssohns" of my family ?(I suppose he himself could
not be Mendel, son of Mendel !)

==He was born and he was given a name. Presumably he had a father who had a
name. One is neither born with a patronymic nor without one; it just
happens--except that nowadays we don't generally use it as part of our names.

There is no reason why he should not have been surnamed Mendesohn after a
grandfather or earlier ancestor. Surnames were often used (with no
hard-and-fast rules), for many centuries before emancipation. His father
may have been Yankel Mendelssohn and his gf was the original Mendel, or the
surname may have stuck with the family for many generations earlier.

3)Could anybody say to me where and when the patronyme Mendel's Sohn
(is there a "saxon genitiv" in Yiddish or is it only in German ?) appeared
for the first time : (actual-)Germany ? (actual-)Poland ? or both places
together under prussian language (it would have been Mendelovich or
something like that under russian language) ?

==Yes, Yiddish uses the s=possessive form. Its usage in German is centuries
old and probably antedates the West European/East European split in Yiddish

Michael Bernet, New York

WOLFF (Pfungstadt, Frankfurt/M,Koenigsberg, Amsterdam, N.Carolina); BERNET,
BERNERT, JONDORF(Frensdorf, Bamberg, Nurnberg); FEUCHTWANGER
(Schwabach, Hagenbach & Fuerth); KONIGSHOFER (anywhere); BERG, WOLF(F),
(Demmelsdorf & Zeckendorf); Shim`on GUTENSTEIN (Bad Homburg ca 1760);
FRENSDORF/ER (anywhere); MAINZER (Lorsch); anyone in Ermreuth or Floss;
GOLDSCHMIDT (B. Homburg, Hessdorf). ALTMANN (Silesia); TIMMENDORFER


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Firstname Emanuel in Poland,19th, with familyname MENDELSSOHN #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 8/18/2001 10:44:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
mendelssohn@worldonline.fr writes:

<<
I know for sure that my MENDELSSOHN gggfather, born in Poland around 1820,
was named "Emanuel" : he was registered under this firstname (...and with
this patronyme) in the 1870 Warszawa Business Directory .
BUT I found NO "Emanuel"(any family name) on the JRI-Poland data-bases of
the 19th century !
Thats why I suppose that any "Emanuel", born at that time, must have had a
second firstname (maybe "Mendel" ???).

I have 3 questions :
1) >from your experience about firstnames in Poland, under which
firstname should I research my "Emanuel"?

==You didn't say in which part of partitioned Poland he was born (Russia,
German or Austria). Certainly in Germanic lands, many parents registered
there little Mendels as Emmanuel (and as the 19th century progressed,
replaced Emmanuel with Emil). Mendel is the kinnuy for Menachem. Expect to
find your ancestor under any of these four names--or perhaps a fifth if he
so chose

2)If we suppose that he was born "Mendel", does it mean that he was
born without patronyme and that his children (the first was born in 1854)
were the first "Mendelssohns" of my family ?(I suppose he himself could
not be Mendel, son of Mendel !)

==He was born and he was given a name. Presumably he had a father who had a
name. One is neither born with a patronymic nor without one; it just
happens--except that nowadays we don't generally use it as part of our names.

There is no reason why he should not have been surnamed Mendesohn after a
grandfather or earlier ancestor. Surnames were often used (with no
hard-and-fast rules), for many centuries before emancipation. His father
may have been Yankel Mendelssohn and his gf was the original Mendel, or the
surname may have stuck with the family for many generations earlier.

3)Could anybody say to me where and when the patronyme Mendel's Sohn
(is there a "saxon genitiv" in Yiddish or is it only in German ?) appeared
for the first time : (actual-)Germany ? (actual-)Poland ? or both places
together under prussian language (it would have been Mendelovich or
something like that under russian language) ?

==Yes, Yiddish uses the s=possessive form. Its usage in German is centuries
old and probably antedates the West European/East European split in Yiddish

Michael Bernet, New York

WOLFF (Pfungstadt, Frankfurt/M,Koenigsberg, Amsterdam, N.Carolina); BERNET,
BERNERT, JONDORF(Frensdorf, Bamberg, Nurnberg); FEUCHTWANGER
(Schwabach, Hagenbach & Fuerth); KONIGSHOFER (anywhere); BERG, WOLF(F),
(Demmelsdorf & Zeckendorf); Shim`on GUTENSTEIN (Bad Homburg ca 1760);
FRENSDORF/ER (anywhere); MAINZER (Lorsch); anyone in Ermreuth or Floss;
GOLDSCHMIDT (B. Homburg, Hessdorf). ALTMANN (Silesia); TIMMENDORFER


Jedwabne, Poland #general

Joyce Field
 

For over a year, the town of Jedwabne, Poland has been in the
headlines in Poland, the United States, and Israel, of course.
By now we are familiar with the details of the murder of the
Jewish inhabitants in this town on July 10, 1941. In October
1998 the Yizkor Book Project posted the initial translations
of the yizkor book at
< http://www.jewishgen.org/yizkor/jedwabne/Yedwabne.html >,
including the chapters which described the massacre.

In May 2000, a very important article announced the events to
the world, "Burning Alive", by Andrzej Kaczynski, published
May 5, 2000 in the Polish newspaper "Rzeczpospolita."
A translation of this article was appended to the yizkor book
translation shortly thereafter. The English translation of
the book "Neighbors" has been sold in the JewishGen Mall.

Recently we posted additional supplementary materials to the
JewishGen Yizkor Book Site:

- "The Perpetrators were Polish" published in Der Spiegel,
May 28, 2001 as "Die Taeter waren Polen"

- "List of the Jewish population that probably resided in
Jedwabne prior to 1939", prepared by Mr. Leszek Kocon,
Manager of the Lomza branch of the State Archives in
Bialystok (May 2001).

All these materials can be accessed at
< http://www.jewishgen.org/yizkor/jedwabne/Yedwabne.html >.
We wish to thank Morlan Ty Rogers, the project coordinator
for the yizkor book translation, for assisting us in presenting
these important supplementary materials.

Joyce Field
Yizkor Book Project Manager


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Jedwabne, Poland #general

Joyce Field
 

For over a year, the town of Jedwabne, Poland has been in the
headlines in Poland, the United States, and Israel, of course.
By now we are familiar with the details of the murder of the
Jewish inhabitants in this town on July 10, 1941. In October
1998 the Yizkor Book Project posted the initial translations
of the yizkor book at
< http://www.jewishgen.org/yizkor/jedwabne/Yedwabne.html >,
including the chapters which described the massacre.

In May 2000, a very important article announced the events to
the world, "Burning Alive", by Andrzej Kaczynski, published
May 5, 2000 in the Polish newspaper "Rzeczpospolita."
A translation of this article was appended to the yizkor book
translation shortly thereafter. The English translation of
the book "Neighbors" has been sold in the JewishGen Mall.

Recently we posted additional supplementary materials to the
JewishGen Yizkor Book Site:

- "The Perpetrators were Polish" published in Der Spiegel,
May 28, 2001 as "Die Taeter waren Polen"

- "List of the Jewish population that probably resided in
Jedwabne prior to 1939", prepared by Mr. Leszek Kocon,
Manager of the Lomza branch of the State Archives in
Bialystok (May 2001).

All these materials can be accessed at
< http://www.jewishgen.org/yizkor/jedwabne/Yedwabne.html >.
We wish to thank Morlan Ty Rogers, the project coordinator
for the yizkor book translation, for assisting us in presenting
these important supplementary materials.

Joyce Field
Yizkor Book Project Manager


Naming after living ancestor #general

Udi Cain
 

Dear all.

My G'G'G'grandmother, Dorothea (nee DATTEL) LOSZYNSKI (1817-1905), had a
granddaughter, Dora (1886-1892). They lived in Schocken, Posen province,
Prussia. I was told that the origin of the family was >from Spain, but I
have no proof. Also, this is the only case that I found such naming.
The family was of orthodox circles.
Is it possible that naming after living ancestor, does not oppose the
Ashkenazi custom, when the name is "foreign" (not Hebrew or Jewish) ?

Best regards.
Udi Cain. Jerusalem.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Naming after living ancestor #general

Udi Cain
 

Dear all.

My G'G'G'grandmother, Dorothea (nee DATTEL) LOSZYNSKI (1817-1905), had a
granddaughter, Dora (1886-1892). They lived in Schocken, Posen province,
Prussia. I was told that the origin of the family was >from Spain, but I
have no proof. Also, this is the only case that I found such naming.
The family was of orthodox circles.
Is it possible that naming after living ancestor, does not oppose the
Ashkenazi custom, when the name is "foreign" (not Hebrew or Jewish) ?

Best regards.
Udi Cain. Jerusalem.


Presser's wages #belarus

Hal S. Maggied, Ph.D. <drmaggoo@...>
 

Shalom Elaine: My Dad worked in a sweat shop as a presser in NYC for
six months during 1904 @ $2.00 per week; twelve hours per day, six
days per week.

Through HIAS he got the hell out of New York and went to Ohio. At
first, he became a junkman with a burlap bag, then a dealer with a
pushcart, then a junk peddlar with his horse & wagon, and finally
married Mom and bought a junk yard in the Hocking Valley of Ohio.
There, they became quite successful folks financially. All of his
sons started their work careers in the scrap yard on their way to
other professional pursuits. Hope this helps.

He figured if he had to work those hours -including Shabbos- for such
a pittance, he may as well try something for himself. In Tzarist
Russia, he knew hard work as a barge mule for nine years; then the
Imperial Army for seven years. Khai Tov, Hal
--
Hal MAGGIED, PhD; AICP; Coconut Creek, FL. Ohio State Alumnus
<drmaggoo@ix.netcom.com>


Belarus SIG #Belarus Presser's wages #belarus

Hal S. Maggied, Ph.D. <drmaggoo@...>
 

Shalom Elaine: My Dad worked in a sweat shop as a presser in NYC for
six months during 1904 @ $2.00 per week; twelve hours per day, six
days per week.

Through HIAS he got the hell out of New York and went to Ohio. At
first, he became a junkman with a burlap bag, then a dealer with a
pushcart, then a junk peddlar with his horse & wagon, and finally
married Mom and bought a junk yard in the Hocking Valley of Ohio.
There, they became quite successful folks financially. All of his
sons started their work careers in the scrap yard on their way to
other professional pursuits. Hope this helps.

He figured if he had to work those hours -including Shabbos- for such
a pittance, he may as well try something for himself. In Tzarist
Russia, he knew hard work as a barge mule for nine years; then the
Imperial Army for seven years. Khai Tov, Hal
--
Hal MAGGIED, PhD; AICP; Coconut Creek, FL. Ohio State Alumnus
<drmaggoo@ix.netcom.com>


REIS, MARGOLIS, LANDAU #rabbinic

rosinskyb
 

Hi all.
1. I have the name Isaak RIESS, who lived in the Pomorzany area (Galicia) in
the first half of the 19th century. In Meorei Galicia there appears one
Itzchak Isaac REIS corresponding >from Pomorzany, Stratin and Dombrowa. Could
anyone give me any leads to more information about this individual or the
REIS family of this area.
2. Isaac REIS's son Chaim REIS (b. 1851) married Vitcha Ruchel MARGOLIS,
daughter of Yakov David and Chana Beile. She had a bother Hirsh MARGOLIS who
had 3 daughters and a son. I suppose this MARGOLIS family came >from the same
area of Pomorzany, Zborow, Zlochow, etc. Does anybody know if this MARGOLIS
family is related to the rabbinical MARGOLIOT family?
3. My gggg-grandmother was Chaya Dreizel LANDAU (b. around 1830) >from the
same area in Eastern Galicia. She married Moshe KALAFAR (KALAFI, KALAFE,
KALAFORA?). Where can I get information on the Landau's of that area? Does
anybody have any clues for me?
Thanks in advance.
Philip Rosinsky rosinskyb@yahoo.com


Rabbinic Genealogy SIG #Rabbinic REIS, MARGOLIS, LANDAU #rabbinic

rosinskyb
 

Hi all.
1. I have the name Isaak RIESS, who lived in the Pomorzany area (Galicia) in
the first half of the 19th century. In Meorei Galicia there appears one
Itzchak Isaac REIS corresponding >from Pomorzany, Stratin and Dombrowa. Could
anyone give me any leads to more information about this individual or the
REIS family of this area.
2. Isaac REIS's son Chaim REIS (b. 1851) married Vitcha Ruchel MARGOLIS,
daughter of Yakov David and Chana Beile. She had a bother Hirsh MARGOLIS who
had 3 daughters and a son. I suppose this MARGOLIS family came >from the same
area of Pomorzany, Zborow, Zlochow, etc. Does anybody know if this MARGOLIS
family is related to the rabbinical MARGOLIOT family?
3. My gggg-grandmother was Chaya Dreizel LANDAU (b. around 1830) >from the
same area in Eastern Galicia. She married Moshe KALAFAR (KALAFI, KALAFE,
KALAFORA?). Where can I get information on the Landau's of that area? Does
anybody have any clues for me?
Thanks in advance.
Philip Rosinsky rosinskyb@yahoo.com


Schneidemuhl #general

Udi Cain
 

Dear all.

Schneidemuhl is the name of a town in Posen province, Prussia.
Today I found out that a brother of my ancestor, took that name as his
surname.
My ancestor chose the surname ARENHEIM, and I have him as living in
Schneidemuhl. I suppose that the surname SCNEIDEMUHL was chosen around 1800.
Any comments?

Best regards.
Udi Cain. Jerusalem.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Schneidemuhl #general

Udi Cain
 

Dear all.

Schneidemuhl is the name of a town in Posen province, Prussia.
Today I found out that a brother of my ancestor, took that name as his
surname.
My ancestor chose the surname ARENHEIM, and I have him as living in
Schneidemuhl. I suppose that the surname SCNEIDEMUHL was chosen around 1800.
Any comments?

Best regards.
Udi Cain. Jerusalem.


Re: Searching for names: Sirkow and Neckowitz(or Natkovitch) and Dumas #general

Stan Goodman <stan@...>
 

On Sat, 18 Aug 2001 14:01:32, sandiesg@aol.comnojunk (Sandie SG)
opined:

I'm looking for anyone who has these surnames or anyone who might know of
them.I posted to a geneaology group recently anda man whose grandmother's
surname was Sirkowa wroteto me and asked me if we might be related. Could
this be the Russian feminine version of Sirkow? My family came >from the
Ukraine, my grandfather >from a little town that was called Nikolaev, I
believe it's still called that and my grandfather came >from Kiev.
SIRKOWA is indeed the feminine form of SIRKOW.

Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, ROKITA: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better):
http://www.hashkedim.com

Please note: To send me email, please delete the remove_this >from my
address.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Searching for names: Sirkow and Neckowitz(or Natkovitch) and Dumas #general

Stan Goodman <stan@...>
 

On Sat, 18 Aug 2001 14:01:32, sandiesg@aol.comnojunk (Sandie SG)
opined:

I'm looking for anyone who has these surnames or anyone who might know of
them.I posted to a geneaology group recently anda man whose grandmother's
surname was Sirkowa wroteto me and asked me if we might be related. Could
this be the Russian feminine version of Sirkow? My family came >from the
Ukraine, my grandfather >from a little town that was called Nikolaev, I
believe it's still called that and my grandfather came >from Kiev.
SIRKOWA is indeed the feminine form of SIRKOW.

Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, ROKITA: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better):
http://www.hashkedim.com

Please note: To send me email, please delete the remove_this >from my
address.


PACKER, SNYDER/SCHNEIDER, KATALOWSKY #general

Denise Azbill <Famaz@...>
 

I am looking for the family of Sophie and Harry Schneider/Snyder.
They fled Russia (Bessarabia) for Brazil, and came to the U.S.
through Ellis Island (can't find them, though!) in around 1910. They
lived in Rochester, N.Y. initially, then moved to L.A. around 1920.
Sophie's maiden name was PACKER/PACKERISCH. Her mother's maiden name
was KATALOWSKY. Sophie and Harry had children: Nathan, David,
Morris, Mollie, Hyman and Ruben. Harry later died and Sophie
remarried a DIAMOND.

If this sounds familiar to anyone, please contact me.

Thanks very much.

Sincerely,
Denise Azbill
Las Vegas, NV


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen PACKER, SNYDER/SCHNEIDER, KATALOWSKY #general

Denise Azbill <Famaz@...>
 

I am looking for the family of Sophie and Harry Schneider/Snyder.
They fled Russia (Bessarabia) for Brazil, and came to the U.S.
through Ellis Island (can't find them, though!) in around 1910. They
lived in Rochester, N.Y. initially, then moved to L.A. around 1920.
Sophie's maiden name was PACKER/PACKERISCH. Her mother's maiden name
was KATALOWSKY. Sophie and Harry had children: Nathan, David,
Morris, Mollie, Hyman and Ruben. Harry later died and Sophie
remarried a DIAMOND.

If this sounds familiar to anyone, please contact me.

Thanks very much.

Sincerely,
Denise Azbill
Las Vegas, NV


Re: New Testimony from Zabludow #general

Tilford Bartman <bartmant@...>
 

Hi,

I recently posted on my website a movie of an excerpt of about 2 minutes
of video taped testimony given to me by a Polish women in Zabludow
Poland to me this past June. As a child she saw the Jews taken >from the
Bilsk Street Beit Hamidrash to the newly formed Ghetto. To view this
movie you will likely need a broad band internet connection like cable
or DSL. Also you will need to be setup to read a WMV file with Media
Player. Some people will be setup for this and some won't. If anyone is
able to view this movie I would appreciate any feedback. I have
considerable more testimony on tape. It all has simultaneous English
translation >from my translator. Here is a link below.

Tilford Bartman

http://www.zabludow.com/BilskStreetMovie.html


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re:New Testimony from Zabludow #general

Tilford Bartman <bartmant@...>
 

Hi,

I recently posted on my website a movie of an excerpt of about 2 minutes
of video taped testimony given to me by a Polish women in Zabludow
Poland to me this past June. As a child she saw the Jews taken >from the
Bilsk Street Beit Hamidrash to the newly formed Ghetto. To view this
movie you will likely need a broad band internet connection like cable
or DSL. Also you will need to be setup to read a WMV file with Media
Player. Some people will be setup for this and some won't. If anyone is
able to view this movie I would appreciate any feedback. I have
considerable more testimony on tape. It all has simultaneous English
translation >from my translator. Here is a link below.

Tilford Bartman

http://www.zabludow.com/BilskStreetMovie.html


Living Genealogy-Odessa to Toronto 2001 #general

GojuMom@...
 

Dear JewishGen,
I need some very specific help for a friend. My Jewish friends, the
REZNIK's have lived in the US for 10 years. They have not seen Anatoly's
brother for all that time. The Ukraine has just granted permission for his
brother and family to immigrate to Toronto, Canada within the next month or
so, date of departure still unknown.
They know no one in Canada and have never been there. Anatoly's
father's family lives in San Francisco, California; his parents live near
us outside Philadelphia, Pennsylvania; and his wife's family lives in New
York.
The Rezniks' plan to meet the plane in Toronto and then they are on
their own. What I would like to do is provide them with some specific
names, address and phone numbers of people and places they can go or call
in Toronto for help.
They were planning to do this entirely on their own because it is
"their way" and due to past negative experiences the family has had when
each of them emigrated. I have told them of JewishGen and that we are a
family. When they went to our website they were in awe! So many Jews
looking for people >from the "old country." I have told them that we all had
family members who were strangers in a strange land at one time or another
and that I thought we could help. Please don't let me down.
This is a one time only posting. Please contact me privately. Thank you
in advance for you help with this Mitzvah.
Gratefully,
JoAnne Vanett
Ambler, Pa

Searching: VINNITSKII, BELENKY, ROZENBERG, ALTMAN, FEINGOLD, GRIMBURG,
SOLOSITSKY, SEGAL(ovsky), SHPAK all >from Zhivotov (49.14/29.32) 93.7 miles
SSW of Kiev, and the surrounding area. Also G(H)OSSMAN, GOMBERG
ALTKRUG, ZURANSKY, FREIMARK >from Suwalki/Lomza area
FUHRMAN somewhere in "Russia"


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Living Genealogy-Odessa to Toronto 2001 #general

GojuMom@...
 

Dear JewishGen,
I need some very specific help for a friend. My Jewish friends, the
REZNIK's have lived in the US for 10 years. They have not seen Anatoly's
brother for all that time. The Ukraine has just granted permission for his
brother and family to immigrate to Toronto, Canada within the next month or
so, date of departure still unknown.
They know no one in Canada and have never been there. Anatoly's
father's family lives in San Francisco, California; his parents live near
us outside Philadelphia, Pennsylvania; and his wife's family lives in New
York.
The Rezniks' plan to meet the plane in Toronto and then they are on
their own. What I would like to do is provide them with some specific
names, address and phone numbers of people and places they can go or call
in Toronto for help.
They were planning to do this entirely on their own because it is
"their way" and due to past negative experiences the family has had when
each of them emigrated. I have told them of JewishGen and that we are a
family. When they went to our website they were in awe! So many Jews
looking for people >from the "old country." I have told them that we all had
family members who were strangers in a strange land at one time or another
and that I thought we could help. Please don't let me down.
This is a one time only posting. Please contact me privately. Thank you
in advance for you help with this Mitzvah.
Gratefully,
JoAnne Vanett
Ambler, Pa

Searching: VINNITSKII, BELENKY, ROZENBERG, ALTMAN, FEINGOLD, GRIMBURG,
SOLOSITSKY, SEGAL(ovsky), SHPAK all >from Zhivotov (49.14/29.32) 93.7 miles
SSW of Kiev, and the surrounding area. Also G(H)OSSMAN, GOMBERG
ALTKRUG, ZURANSKY, FREIMARK >from Suwalki/Lomza area
FUHRMAN somewhere in "Russia"