Date   

Re: Records in Cyrillic #general

Jules Levin
 

At 02:16 AM 8/24/2005, you wrote:

I will try to answer the question inquired by Sam
Schleman concerning a possibility to learn Cyrillic in
order to read records written in Russian. I think
there is no problem for English speaker to learn
Cyrillic alphabet, many letters are similar. The
problem is to *decipher* old Russian handwriting that
had slightly different >from the modern Russian
orthography and unintelligible script. Russian is my
mother tongue and I am working with nineteenth century
documents for ten years; sometimes I have difficulties
to decipher some words.
Irene Kudish
Tel-Aviv
In general I agree with Irene Kudish. I am not a native speaker, but I
began studying Russian at 18, and I am
now 65. I taught it, even advanced levels, for over 30 years. The
handwriting is the biggest challenge. Once deciphered
the translation is very simple. In fact I wrote to JewishGen a few months
ago regarding the costs of translating records
by hiring people in Russia. I said that if they hired people, even not
knowing English, to simply *transcribe* documents
into some readable computer text, I would be happy to translate as a
volunteer. In fact, having written a textbook for reading Russian, I think
that if the documents were available in such a readable form, I could write
a little guide to Russian just for people
trying to read these documents. After all, most of the language is
repeated in every document.
The documents I have seen do not strike me as sloppily written. Rather,
they seem to be written in stylized clerical hands.
The problem is, every writer seems to have his own style. They are
internally consistent, some are even quite beautiful, but it can take hours
to puzzle out the handwriting style used in a given document. The easiest
writing I deciphered was scrawled on the back of a postcard! Proving that
a little knowledge (of "official" handwriting) is a dangerous thing.

Jules Levin
Los Angeles


1911 Canadian Census #general

Mervin
 

I want to express my gratitude to all who have responded to my posting for
help. You have been most helpful. I see that I have a great deal of work
ahead of me but at least I am pointed in the right direction.
Merv Glow
Palm Springs
mglow@dc.rr.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Records in Cyrillic #general

Jules Levin
 

At 02:16 AM 8/24/2005, you wrote:

I will try to answer the question inquired by Sam
Schleman concerning a possibility to learn Cyrillic in
order to read records written in Russian. I think
there is no problem for English speaker to learn
Cyrillic alphabet, many letters are similar. The
problem is to *decipher* old Russian handwriting that
had slightly different >from the modern Russian
orthography and unintelligible script. Russian is my
mother tongue and I am working with nineteenth century
documents for ten years; sometimes I have difficulties
to decipher some words.
Irene Kudish
Tel-Aviv
In general I agree with Irene Kudish. I am not a native speaker, but I
began studying Russian at 18, and I am
now 65. I taught it, even advanced levels, for over 30 years. The
handwriting is the biggest challenge. Once deciphered
the translation is very simple. In fact I wrote to JewishGen a few months
ago regarding the costs of translating records
by hiring people in Russia. I said that if they hired people, even not
knowing English, to simply *transcribe* documents
into some readable computer text, I would be happy to translate as a
volunteer. In fact, having written a textbook for reading Russian, I think
that if the documents were available in such a readable form, I could write
a little guide to Russian just for people
trying to read these documents. After all, most of the language is
repeated in every document.
The documents I have seen do not strike me as sloppily written. Rather,
they seem to be written in stylized clerical hands.
The problem is, every writer seems to have his own style. They are
internally consistent, some are even quite beautiful, but it can take hours
to puzzle out the handwriting style used in a given document. The easiest
writing I deciphered was scrawled on the back of a postcard! Proving that
a little knowledge (of "official" handwriting) is a dangerous thing.

Jules Levin
Los Angeles


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen 1911 Canadian Census #general

Mervin
 

I want to express my gratitude to all who have responded to my posting for
help. You have been most helpful. I see that I have a great deal of work
ahead of me but at least I am pointed in the right direction.
Merv Glow
Palm Springs
mglow@dc.rr.com


Registering side-branches of family trees on the JGFF #general

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

I am responding to Nick Landau's point: Some personal
"successes" was Re: Seeking: PERELES, DUB and
TAUSSIG: "Further to Celia Male's posting, my mother's
maiden name ATLAS is not such a common Jewish name but
clearly is an ordinary English word, which also is
used in other languages, I believe. In the last 8
months I have been in contact with a probable cousin
from the States. We made contact through JGFF and he
had no knowledge of our branch of the family..."

But Nick, I have 5,000 plus on my tree - there is no
way I would register all the names - I am not really
looking for PERELES, HIRSCH, DUB, TAUSSIG etc as I
have constructed the tree which grows daily, visited
the graves in Vienna, done the research and I know
where many of the descendants are. Only a few are
actually related to me. They are side-branches going
way back to the early 1800s and in some cases, one or
two of their descendants married into my immediate
family.

There are few people who *do* side-branches on trees,
like I do. Randy Schoenberg, one of the founders of
the Austria-Czech group, an avid genealogist since his
childhood, said to me that I was the keenest
genealogist he knew because of my "side-branches". How
far does one branch? I was unaware of this
idiosyncracy of mine, thinking that is what everyone
did, as I just went sideways whenever I found a
confirmed link.

I am delighted to meet anyone on the tree and help
them but as far registering all my side-branches [not
relatives!] on the JGFF, I would never have any other
life. However, when I see a link >from a correspondent,
I always reply and branch even further. I am always on
the look out for links - I find them fascinating.

In this case, the only person I have not heard >from is
the original enquirer re HIRSCH, PERELES, DUB and
TAUSSIG - named Peter Rath >from Austria, which is
ironic! He presumably has another sideways link to
these families which I am unaware of and I am, as
always, excited to hear about.

Celia Male [U.K.]


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Registering side-branches of family trees on the JGFF #general

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

I am responding to Nick Landau's point: Some personal
"successes" was Re: Seeking: PERELES, DUB and
TAUSSIG: "Further to Celia Male's posting, my mother's
maiden name ATLAS is not such a common Jewish name but
clearly is an ordinary English word, which also is
used in other languages, I believe. In the last 8
months I have been in contact with a probable cousin
from the States. We made contact through JGFF and he
had no knowledge of our branch of the family..."

But Nick, I have 5,000 plus on my tree - there is no
way I would register all the names - I am not really
looking for PERELES, HIRSCH, DUB, TAUSSIG etc as I
have constructed the tree which grows daily, visited
the graves in Vienna, done the research and I know
where many of the descendants are. Only a few are
actually related to me. They are side-branches going
way back to the early 1800s and in some cases, one or
two of their descendants married into my immediate
family.

There are few people who *do* side-branches on trees,
like I do. Randy Schoenberg, one of the founders of
the Austria-Czech group, an avid genealogist since his
childhood, said to me that I was the keenest
genealogist he knew because of my "side-branches". How
far does one branch? I was unaware of this
idiosyncracy of mine, thinking that is what everyone
did, as I just went sideways whenever I found a
confirmed link.

I am delighted to meet anyone on the tree and help
them but as far registering all my side-branches [not
relatives!] on the JGFF, I would never have any other
life. However, when I see a link >from a correspondent,
I always reply and branch even further. I am always on
the look out for links - I find them fascinating.

In this case, the only person I have not heard >from is
the original enquirer re HIRSCH, PERELES, DUB and
TAUSSIG - named Peter Rath >from Austria, which is
ironic! He presumably has another sideways link to
these families which I am unaware of and I am, as
always, excited to hear about.

Celia Male [U.K.]


Re: MOSES family #general

Evertjan. <exjxw.hannivoort@...>
 

Lawrence Blum wrote on 23 aug 2005 in soc.genealogy.jewish:

While researching my maternal grandfather, Joseph FARBMAN, I found him
in the 1901 Census in London. The address is No. 56 Royal Mint St.,
WhiteChapel He is signed in as Joe FARBMAN, age 22 born in Russia
living with cousin.
His brother Morris FARBMAN, age 28 , born in Russia, living with
cousin is also listed.
The cousin and family record follows:
Nathan MOSES is head of family, age 42 , born in Russia
The wife is Rebecca, age 37, also born in Russia
The children are in order: Fannie 19, Jennie 17, Meyer 11, Louis 8,
Victor 6, all were born in WhiteChapel.
Is any researcher familiar with this MOSES family? This branch of my
grandfather's family is a
complete mystery.
In 1871 another MOSES lived there. Mixup possible?

<http://genforum.genealogy.com/englandcountry/middlesex/messages/1355.html>

--
Evertjan Hannivoort.
The Netherlands.
(Replace all crosses with dots in my emailaddress)


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: MOSES family #general

Evertjan. <exjxw.hannivoort@...>
 

Lawrence Blum wrote on 23 aug 2005 in soc.genealogy.jewish:

While researching my maternal grandfather, Joseph FARBMAN, I found him
in the 1901 Census in London. The address is No. 56 Royal Mint St.,
WhiteChapel He is signed in as Joe FARBMAN, age 22 born in Russia
living with cousin.
His brother Morris FARBMAN, age 28 , born in Russia, living with
cousin is also listed.
The cousin and family record follows:
Nathan MOSES is head of family, age 42 , born in Russia
The wife is Rebecca, age 37, also born in Russia
The children are in order: Fannie 19, Jennie 17, Meyer 11, Louis 8,
Victor 6, all were born in WhiteChapel.
Is any researcher familiar with this MOSES family? This branch of my
grandfather's family is a
complete mystery.
In 1871 another MOSES lived there. Mixup possible?

<http://genforum.genealogy.com/englandcountry/middlesex/messages/1355.html>

--
Evertjan Hannivoort.
The Netherlands.
(Replace all crosses with dots in my emailaddress)


Publishing family trees #general

ben-ari <yrcdi@...>
 

Since I was not able to follow the discussion regarding family trees, I'd
like to ask: Is there some official/legal/and/or ethical limits on
publishing a family tree without the consent of all the members of the
family? What is considered "publishing"? Are their details regarding family
members which can be published without permission but others (addresses,
phones etc) which should/may not be published?

Sorry, if these questions were anwered but do to my work load and events
going on in Israel I was not able to read carefully all the e-mails.
Yoni Ben-Ari, Efrat, Israel


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Publishing family trees #general

ben-ari <yrcdi@...>
 

Since I was not able to follow the discussion regarding family trees, I'd
like to ask: Is there some official/legal/and/or ethical limits on
publishing a family tree without the consent of all the members of the
family? What is considered "publishing"? Are their details regarding family
members which can be published without permission but others (addresses,
phones etc) which should/may not be published?

Sorry, if these questions were anwered but do to my work load and events
going on in Israel I was not able to read carefully all the e-mails.
Yoni Ben-Ari, Efrat, Israel


Re: Publishing genealogies #general

Nick <tulse04-news@...>
 

<yisraelasper@comcast.net> wrote

I have relatives who are by now very distant in relationship and don't
need a genealogist to tell them they are related. All they have to do
is look at a wedding invitation. They would be insulted to be kicked
out of a tree or a wedding invitation.
I have a family-tree going back to 1650 and I was shown the cemeteries in
Furth by Gisela Blume (for which much thanks).

I had not heard of her previously and she handed me family-trees which were
all connected to this family.

The name Rapaport appears in the family-tree and I have established quite a
few years ago a connection with a number of people who post on this
newsgroup.

The mathematics of this is not very difficult and either you are related to
yourself a number of times, or you must be related to half the Jews in New
York.

I have read that the number of Ashkenazi Jews at the time of Rashi was only
about 50,000.

We know that at succeeding generations with the family cycle of weddings
individuals form their own families and once fairly close relations become
more distant - their is only so many people you can invite to weddings and
there is the factor of geography.

In statistics I use degrees of connectedness and likewise we do so in our
family relations - third, fourth cousins etc.

We naturally recognise that someone who shares a greatgreatgreatfather is
not as closely related as a first cousin.

Having said that we probably know of families where they have regular
meetings of all descendants of such and such a family that came >from X. This
is more like the Scottish clan.

--
Nick Landau
London, UK

COHNREICH (Anklam, Germany Krajenka, Poland)
ATLAS (Wielkie Oczy (near Lvov/Lemberg), Poland)
WECHSLER(Schwabach, Germany)
KOHN (Wallerstein and Kleinerdlingen,Germany)
LANDAU/FREDKIN(Gomel, Mogilev, Belarus)


List of jewish soldiers, Romanian army, dead in WWI #romania

Sorin Goldenberg <SorinG@...>
 

Hi,

Is anyone aware if there is a compiled list of jewish soldiers that have
fallen in the Romanian army during WWI ? If so, where could it be found
? Any historians that may be approached with this question?

Thanks,
Sorin Goldenberg,
MODERATOR NOTE: Please sign messages with your location.

*


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Publishing genealogies #general

Nick <tulse04-news@...>
 

<yisraelasper@comcast.net> wrote

I have relatives who are by now very distant in relationship and don't
need a genealogist to tell them they are related. All they have to do
is look at a wedding invitation. They would be insulted to be kicked
out of a tree or a wedding invitation.
I have a family-tree going back to 1650 and I was shown the cemeteries in
Furth by Gisela Blume (for which much thanks).

I had not heard of her previously and she handed me family-trees which were
all connected to this family.

The name Rapaport appears in the family-tree and I have established quite a
few years ago a connection with a number of people who post on this
newsgroup.

The mathematics of this is not very difficult and either you are related to
yourself a number of times, or you must be related to half the Jews in New
York.

I have read that the number of Ashkenazi Jews at the time of Rashi was only
about 50,000.

We know that at succeeding generations with the family cycle of weddings
individuals form their own families and once fairly close relations become
more distant - their is only so many people you can invite to weddings and
there is the factor of geography.

In statistics I use degrees of connectedness and likewise we do so in our
family relations - third, fourth cousins etc.

We naturally recognise that someone who shares a greatgreatgreatfather is
not as closely related as a first cousin.

Having said that we probably know of families where they have regular
meetings of all descendants of such and such a family that came >from X. This
is more like the Scottish clan.

--
Nick Landau
London, UK

COHNREICH (Anklam, Germany Krajenka, Poland)
ATLAS (Wielkie Oczy (near Lvov/Lemberg), Poland)
WECHSLER(Schwabach, Germany)
KOHN (Wallerstein and Kleinerdlingen,Germany)
LANDAU/FREDKIN(Gomel, Mogilev, Belarus)


Romania SIG #Romania List of jewish soldiers, Romanian army, dead in WWI #romania

Sorin Goldenberg <SorinG@...>
 

Hi,

Is anyone aware if there is a compiled list of jewish soldiers that have
fallen in the Romanian army during WWI ? If so, where could it be found
? Any historians that may be approached with this question?

Thanks,
Sorin Goldenberg,
MODERATOR NOTE: Please sign messages with your location.

*


KUDISH family #belarus

tina gam <gam1227@...>
 

I am looking for information on Bella WEINBERG. I
have a very old address in Maryland. I understand her
maiden name is KUDISH.

Thank you,
Tina GAM/GAMM
reserching: GAMM/GAMM, KUDISH or CUDISH, KAPLAN,
KWATT all >from Russia/Poland.


Naming a Baby Girl #general

Stan <natsnehoc@...>
 

I would like to thank all the nice JGenners, who took the time to respond to
my message of August 17, 2005.
For information purposes, the following summarizes the information received.
***Name:
The most mentioned name closely related to "Chaim" was "Chaya". Other
suggestions were, Chaya, Chayoot, Chayootah.
It would appear that naming a child is merely a custom, (superstition and
tradition), and not a matter of Halacha (Law). Sephardim and Ashkenazim
follow different traditions, in that Sephardim will name after a living
parent or Gparent, while Ashkenazim will not.
The English name does'nt necessarily have to be equivalent in
Hebrew/Yiddish, as long as the family knows the connection of the name with
the relative.

***Unveiling vs Naming
Unveilings are purely an American invention and have no status in Jewish
Law, thus has no bearing on timing of naming. It is okay to have a Simcha
(naming) and a non Simcha (unveiling) on the same day--except Shabbat, of
course.

***Timing of Naming
There was no diffinitive answer, as to timing. I get the sense that it
depends on how religious one is. Many would name the child as soon a
possible after birth, on the first Monday, Thursday, or Saturday following,
when the Torah is read. Some said it is permissible to wait longer,
especially if it was to be done in coordination with family, who would be
coming >from far away to attend the ceremony. Timing does not 'adversly'
affect the name.

***Finally
Many qualified their responses with "talk to a Rabbi".
Well, we did and our little princess will be named in his Synagogue on a
Thursday morning, some 6 weeks after her birth to accomodate two important
events: An unveiling on the prior Sunday for the GGrandfather after whom
she will be named; and the arrival of the late GGrandfathers sister from
Israel to witness both events.

Thanks, again for your responses. To quote one nice person, who signed off
with "LeTorah, ULeChupah, ULeMaasim Tovim (to the Torah, to the Chuppah, and
on to Good Deeds"

Stan Cohen,
Toronto, Ontario
natnehoc@rogers.com


Belarus SIG #Belarus KUDISH family #belarus

tina gam <gam1227@...>
 

I am looking for information on Bella WEINBERG. I
have a very old address in Maryland. I understand her
maiden name is KUDISH.

Thank you,
Tina GAM/GAMM
reserching: GAMM/GAMM, KUDISH or CUDISH, KAPLAN,
KWATT all >from Russia/Poland.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Naming a Baby Girl #general

Stan <natsnehoc@...>
 

I would like to thank all the nice JGenners, who took the time to respond to
my message of August 17, 2005.
For information purposes, the following summarizes the information received.
***Name:
The most mentioned name closely related to "Chaim" was "Chaya". Other
suggestions were, Chaya, Chayoot, Chayootah.
It would appear that naming a child is merely a custom, (superstition and
tradition), and not a matter of Halacha (Law). Sephardim and Ashkenazim
follow different traditions, in that Sephardim will name after a living
parent or Gparent, while Ashkenazim will not.
The English name does'nt necessarily have to be equivalent in
Hebrew/Yiddish, as long as the family knows the connection of the name with
the relative.

***Unveiling vs Naming
Unveilings are purely an American invention and have no status in Jewish
Law, thus has no bearing on timing of naming. It is okay to have a Simcha
(naming) and a non Simcha (unveiling) on the same day--except Shabbat, of
course.

***Timing of Naming
There was no diffinitive answer, as to timing. I get the sense that it
depends on how religious one is. Many would name the child as soon a
possible after birth, on the first Monday, Thursday, or Saturday following,
when the Torah is read. Some said it is permissible to wait longer,
especially if it was to be done in coordination with family, who would be
coming >from far away to attend the ceremony. Timing does not 'adversly'
affect the name.

***Finally
Many qualified their responses with "talk to a Rabbi".
Well, we did and our little princess will be named in his Synagogue on a
Thursday morning, some 6 weeks after her birth to accomodate two important
events: An unveiling on the prior Sunday for the GGrandfather after whom
she will be named; and the arrival of the late GGrandfathers sister from
Israel to witness both events.

Thanks, again for your responses. To quote one nice person, who signed off
with "LeTorah, ULeChupah, ULeMaasim Tovim (to the Torah, to the Chuppah, and
on to Good Deeds"

Stan Cohen,
Toronto, Ontario
natnehoc@rogers.com


Re: Naming a Baby Girl #general

Nick <tulse04-news@...>
 

"Gary Holtzman" <garyholtzman@macnospam.com> wrote

It is traditional to call the father to the Torah following the
birth of a daughter, at which time a mishaberach is made using
the girl's name; this is what is usually meant by naming her in
the synagogue. In recent years many North
American congregations make this into a bigger "event" than was
traditionally the case. A positive development, IMHO.
In England in Orthodox congregations likewise. In very Orthodox
congregations, the close family won't tell anyone else the name until it has
been announced at the calling up and the following mishaberach in the
synagogue.

I am told that when my grandfather went to shul following the birth of my
mother (whose English name was Betty) when it came to the Mishaberach he
couldn't remember whether her Hebrew name was to be Bayla or Batya. In the
end, I understand that he got the name wrong.

It is this name that will appear on the Ketuba and then morbidly on the
tombstone (if the Hebrew name is given).

In the Jewish religion a boy is named at the Brit and the girl at this
ceremony.

Whereas the boy will use his Hebrew name >from before his Barmitzvah when he
is first called up (Aliyah) in shul, the only time a girl will be required
to use her name is on her ketuba if she gets married.

I exclude very Orthodox families where the custom these days is to use
Hebrew names and I assume that this is the same or similar to the religious
name.

In my own family when my aunt died a few years ago, my cousins didn't know
what her Hebrew name was and they couldn't find her Ketuba. They had to make
an intelligent guess based on her English name.

http://judaism.about.com/library/3_lifecycles/names/bl_names.htm is an
interesting site about customs regarding baby naming including some
questions that have been raised recently.
--
Nick Landau
London, UK

COHNREICH (Anklam, Germany Krajenka, Poland)
ATLAS (Wielkie Oczy (near Lvov/Lemberg), Poland)
WECHSLER(Schwabach, Germany) KOHN (Wallerstein and Kleinerdlingen,Germany)
LANDAU/FREDKIN(Gomel, Mogilev, Belarus)


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Naming a Baby Girl #general

Nick <tulse04-news@...>
 

"Gary Holtzman" <garyholtzman@macnospam.com> wrote

It is traditional to call the father to the Torah following the
birth of a daughter, at which time a mishaberach is made using
the girl's name; this is what is usually meant by naming her in
the synagogue. In recent years many North
American congregations make this into a bigger "event" than was
traditionally the case. A positive development, IMHO.
In England in Orthodox congregations likewise. In very Orthodox
congregations, the close family won't tell anyone else the name until it has
been announced at the calling up and the following mishaberach in the
synagogue.

I am told that when my grandfather went to shul following the birth of my
mother (whose English name was Betty) when it came to the Mishaberach he
couldn't remember whether her Hebrew name was to be Bayla or Batya. In the
end, I understand that he got the name wrong.

It is this name that will appear on the Ketuba and then morbidly on the
tombstone (if the Hebrew name is given).

In the Jewish religion a boy is named at the Brit and the girl at this
ceremony.

Whereas the boy will use his Hebrew name >from before his Barmitzvah when he
is first called up (Aliyah) in shul, the only time a girl will be required
to use her name is on her ketuba if she gets married.

I exclude very Orthodox families where the custom these days is to use
Hebrew names and I assume that this is the same or similar to the religious
name.

In my own family when my aunt died a few years ago, my cousins didn't know
what her Hebrew name was and they couldn't find her Ketuba. They had to make
an intelligent guess based on her English name.

http://judaism.about.com/library/3_lifecycles/names/bl_names.htm is an
interesting site about customs regarding baby naming including some
questions that have been raised recently.
--
Nick Landau
London, UK

COHNREICH (Anklam, Germany Krajenka, Poland)
ATLAS (Wielkie Oczy (near Lvov/Lemberg), Poland)
WECHSLER(Schwabach, Germany) KOHN (Wallerstein and Kleinerdlingen,Germany)
LANDAU/FREDKIN(Gomel, Mogilev, Belarus)