Date   

Re: ViewMate 15713 - 4 #general

Robert Israel <israel@...>
 

They may be found on
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=15713
and
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=15714.
I'm hoping that someone can translate the Hebrew words. There are some
handwritten phrases on the document. If possible, please translate them.
snip...

I can't help with decyphering the handwriting, but my grandparents' ketubah
(>from Winnipeg in October 1904) was on exactly the same form. I'm guessing
it was in common use around that time period (and inexpensive).

Robert Israel israel@...
http://www.math.ubc.ca/~israel
University of British Columbia Vancouver, BC, Canada


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: ViewMate 15713 - 4 #general

Robert Israel <israel@...>
 

They may be found on
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=15713
and
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=15714.
I'm hoping that someone can translate the Hebrew words. There are some
handwritten phrases on the document. If possible, please translate them.
snip...

I can't help with decyphering the handwriting, but my grandparents' ketubah
(>from Winnipeg in October 1904) was on exactly the same form. I'm guessing
it was in common use around that time period (and inexpensive).

Robert Israel israel@...
http://www.math.ubc.ca/~israel
University of British Columbia Vancouver, BC, Canada


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Bessarabia Vital Records Update #ukraine

RobertW252@...
 

ROM-SIG is proud to announce that the Bessarabia Vital Records database
has been updated. There are now over 135,000 records in the vital records
database.

You are able to access it through the Romanian database at
http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/Romania/ or through the Ukraine database at
http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/Ukraine/.

This database includes all of the records for Kishinev that we presently
have. We will eventually get the records >from the Family History Library
that we do not have.

ROM-SIG can also use more people who can translate Russian, Hebrew,
German or Hungarian to work on different projects. Please contact me if you are
interested in working on any of our projects:

Bessarabia Vital Records (Bel'tsy)
Bessarabia Revision Lists
Brasov Vital Records
Cehu Silvaniei Vital Records
Simleu Silvaniei Vital Records

Bob Wascou
ROM-SIG Research Coordinator


Bessarabia Vital Records Update #ukraine

RobertW252@...
 

ROM-SIG is proud to announce that the Bessarabia Vital Records database
has been updated. There are now over 135,000 records in the vital records
database.

You are able to access it through the Romanian database at
http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/Romania/ or through the Ukraine database at
http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/Ukraine/.

This database includes all of the records for Kishinev that we presently
have. We will eventually get the records >from the Family History Library
that we do not have.

ROM-SIG can also use more people who can translate Russian, Hebrew,
German or Hungarian to work on different projects. Please contact me if you are
interested in working on any of our projects:

Bessarabia Vital Records (Bel'tsy)
Bessarabia Revision Lists
Brasov Vital Records
Cehu Silvaniei Vital Records
Simleu Silvaniei Vital Records

Bob Wascou
ROM-SIG Research Coordinator


Romania SIG #Romania Bessarabia Vital Records Update #romania

RobertW252@...
 

ROM-SIG is proud to announce that the Bessarabia Vital Records database
has been updated. There are now over 135,000 records in the vital records
database.

You are able to access it through the Romanian database at
http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/Romania/ or through the Ukraine database at
http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/Ukraine/.

This database includes all of the records for Kishinev that we presently
have. We will eventually get the records >from the Family History Library
that we do not have.

ROM-SIG can also use more people who can translate Russian, Hebrew,
German or Hungarian to work on different projects. Please contact me if you are
interested in working on any of our projects:

Bessarabia Vital Records (Bel'tsy)
Bessarabia Revision Lists
Brasov Vital Records
Cehu Silvaniei Vital Records
Simleu Silvaniei Vital Records

Bob Wascou
ROM-SIG Research Coordinator


Bessarabia Vital Records Update #romania

RobertW252@...
 

ROM-SIG is proud to announce that the Bessarabia Vital Records database
has been updated. There are now over 135,000 records in the vital records
database.

You are able to access it through the Romanian database at
http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/Romania/ or through the Ukraine database at
http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/Ukraine/.

This database includes all of the records for Kishinev that we presently
have. We will eventually get the records >from the Family History Library
that we do not have.

ROM-SIG can also use more people who can translate Russian, Hebrew,
German or Hungarian to work on different projects. Please contact me if you are
interested in working on any of our projects:

Bessarabia Vital Records (Bel'tsy)
Bessarabia Revision Lists
Brasov Vital Records
Cehu Silvaniei Vital Records
Simleu Silvaniei Vital Records

Bob Wascou
ROM-SIG Research Coordinator


South Africa SIG #SouthAfrica looking for family in South Africa. " SHMUKLER from SZYDLOWIEC in Poland. #southafrica

Adrian Freedman
 

Dear Friends

An acquaintance in Israel asks for help in tracing missing relatives
in South Africa who came, in his words "to look for diamonds ".

The family named SHMUKLER came >from SZYDLOWIEC in Poland.

Their destination in South Africa is not known.

He does not know first names

. He says a branch of the family went to the USA

If anyone can help, please pass information on to me and I will be in
contact with him

Best wishes

Adrian Freedman

Raanana Israel


looking for family in South Africa. " SHMUKLER from SZYDLOWIEC in Poland. #southafrica

Adrian Freedman
 

Dear Friends

An acquaintance in Israel asks for help in tracing missing relatives
in South Africa who came, in his words "to look for diamonds ".

The family named SHMUKLER came >from SZYDLOWIEC in Poland.

Their destination in South Africa is not known.

He does not know first names

. He says a branch of the family went to the USA

If anyone can help, please pass information on to me and I will be in
contact with him

Best wishes

Adrian Freedman

Raanana Israel


JGS of Colorado Awards #general

Terry Lasky <talasky@...>
 

The Jewish Genealogical Society of Colorado was proud to acknowledge
long-time members at our annual meeting last Sunday with "Pillar of
Our Society Awards." Congratulations to recipients Sandra Greenberg,
Miriam Ohr, Myndel Cohen, Anne Fendrich and RitaJo Tensly. These
recipients have been members for most or all of the 15 years of our
Society's existence and have been major contributors to our continuing
success.

JGSCO member Howard Steinmetz was also awarded with a "Spirit of JGSCO"
award. Howard's spirit in his genealogical pursuits has been amazing,
especially under trying circumstances. His spirit has gone beyond
genealogy and has touched a large number of our members in a very special
way.

Congratulations to all, and thank you for your hard work, dedication and
commitment to our organization!

Terry Lasky
Awards Committee Chairman
Centennial, CO


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen JGS of Colorado Awards #general

Terry Lasky <talasky@...>
 

The Jewish Genealogical Society of Colorado was proud to acknowledge
long-time members at our annual meeting last Sunday with "Pillar of
Our Society Awards." Congratulations to recipients Sandra Greenberg,
Miriam Ohr, Myndel Cohen, Anne Fendrich and RitaJo Tensly. These
recipients have been members for most or all of the 15 years of our
Society's existence and have been major contributors to our continuing
success.

JGSCO member Howard Steinmetz was also awarded with a "Spirit of JGSCO"
award. Howard's spirit in his genealogical pursuits has been amazing,
especially under trying circumstances. His spirit has gone beyond
genealogy and has touched a large number of our members in a very special
way.

Congratulations to all, and thank you for your hard work, dedication and
commitment to our organization!

Terry Lasky
Awards Committee Chairman
Centennial, CO


More on autosomal tests #dna

sbloom@...
 

It seems to me that there are two ways one can check on the efficacy
of the typical autosomal test that is administered by FTDNA or
23andme (yes, I realize they have somewhat different tests).

1. simulate genetic data (essentially, create genetic data for a
simulated family over, say 5 generations or what have you) and run
the test on the fake data to see if you can retrieve the known
relationships accurately.

2. retrieve genealogical data >from a known and well documented tree
and run the tests on folks >from every branch of the tree and see if
you retrieve the known relationships.

The advantage of (1) is that it is much cheaper and you can change
the data set in any number of ways (can make the data more "noisy",
can make fake ancestors that are partially related to each other or
totally unrelated, etc.). The disadvantage is that you could probably
never simulate reality with 100% accuracy.

The advantage of (2) is that it is more similar to what the average
user of the product wants to be doing. The disadvantage is that
probably the company involved will have to subsidize some testing (I
think its worth it though).

Comments?

Steve Bloom
Central Virginia


DNA Research #DNA More on autosomal tests #dna

sbloom@...
 

It seems to me that there are two ways one can check on the efficacy
of the typical autosomal test that is administered by FTDNA or
23andme (yes, I realize they have somewhat different tests).

1. simulate genetic data (essentially, create genetic data for a
simulated family over, say 5 generations or what have you) and run
the test on the fake data to see if you can retrieve the known
relationships accurately.

2. retrieve genealogical data >from a known and well documented tree
and run the tests on folks >from every branch of the tree and see if
you retrieve the known relationships.

The advantage of (1) is that it is much cheaper and you can change
the data set in any number of ways (can make the data more "noisy",
can make fake ancestors that are partially related to each other or
totally unrelated, etc.). The disadvantage is that you could probably
never simulate reality with 100% accuracy.

The advantage of (2) is that it is more similar to what the average
user of the product wants to be doing. The disadvantage is that
probably the company involved will have to subsidize some testing (I
think its worth it though).

Comments?

Steve Bloom
Central Virginia


Re: More about using Y-DNA testing #dna

Arline and Sidney Sachs
 

Jeff Malka wrote:
"But elsewhere on the FTDNA website, when I click on any of my 12 marker
exact matches it says it is a 30% possibility at 4 generations - which
sounds a lot better!

Here is what comes up for any of my exact 12 point matches:

In comparing 12 markers, the probability that Mr. ...... and .....
shared a common ancestor within the last...
Comparison Chart
Generations Percentage
4 33.57%
8 55.88% ..."

Those figure are for the general population. Not for persons with
Askenazic ancestry where persons with 12 markers matches all have a
different surnames. What I did was to add 6 generations to the number of
generations above to cover the 200 years since we began using last names.

Sidney Sachs


DNA Research #DNA Re: More about using Y-DNA testing #dna

Arline and Sidney Sachs
 

Jeff Malka wrote:
"But elsewhere on the FTDNA website, when I click on any of my 12 marker
exact matches it says it is a 30% possibility at 4 generations - which
sounds a lot better!

Here is what comes up for any of my exact 12 point matches:

In comparing 12 markers, the probability that Mr. ...... and .....
shared a common ancestor within the last...
Comparison Chart
Generations Percentage
4 33.57%
8 55.88% ..."

Those figure are for the general population. Not for persons with
Askenazic ancestry where persons with 12 markers matches all have a
different surnames. What I did was to add 6 generations to the number of
generations above to cover the 200 years since we began using last names.

Sidney Sachs


Jewish DNA Research - Samaritans etc #dna

Martin Davis (com)
 

Re questions of Jewish peoples (Ashkenazim, Sephardim, Samaritans etc.)
extensive Jewish DNA research work has been undertaken by Doron Behar and
colleagues and the latest paper 'The genome-wide structure of the Jewish
people' was published in Nature on 9 June 2010. An extract of the paper and
some interesting graphs can be found at http://www.tinyurls.co.uk/F5734.
[Or http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/abs/nature09103.html
--Mod.]
This may not answer all the questions re the similarities between various
Semitic groups but it is another huge leap.

There are a number of other papers that are available which give a picture
of the matrilineal DNA of the Ashkenazi people and one of these can be found
at http://www.familytreedna.com/pdf/43026_Doron.pdf .

As a general observation there is now so much now that is available on line
re the individual distribution of the classic Ashkenazi Jewish YDNA that we
are spoiled for choice. Start off with the Wiki entry on Ashkenazi Jews at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews and see where it takes you.

Martin Davis - London (UK)


DNA Research #DNA Jewish DNA Research - Samaritans etc #dna

Martin Davis (com)
 

Re questions of Jewish peoples (Ashkenazim, Sephardim, Samaritans etc.)
extensive Jewish DNA research work has been undertaken by Doron Behar and
colleagues and the latest paper 'The genome-wide structure of the Jewish
people' was published in Nature on 9 June 2010. An extract of the paper and
some interesting graphs can be found at http://www.tinyurls.co.uk/F5734.
[Or http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/abs/nature09103.html
--Mod.]
This may not answer all the questions re the similarities between various
Semitic groups but it is another huge leap.

There are a number of other papers that are available which give a picture
of the matrilineal DNA of the Ashkenazi people and one of these can be found
at http://www.familytreedna.com/pdf/43026_Doron.pdf .

As a general observation there is now so much now that is available on line
re the individual distribution of the classic Ashkenazi Jewish YDNA that we
are spoiled for choice. Start off with the Wiki entry on Ashkenazi Jews at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews and see where it takes you.

Martin Davis - London (UK)


Re: cross company DNA comparisons #dna

Leon Kull <napobo3@...>
 

David,

you can submit your 23andme results to HIR Search
http://hirs.snpology.com
to compare them with tested by FTDNA, 23andme and Decodeme.

Use the e-mail address near the copyright sign to contact the team.

-- Leon Kull
Yehud, Israel

My wife and I have recently been approached my 23andMe and offered a
full dna test ("500,000 data points") in exchange for participating in a
study of Parkinson's disease, since it occurs in both our families.
...
David Shapiro
Jerusalem


DNA Research #DNA Re: cross company DNA comparisons #dna

Leon Kull <napobo3@...>
 

David,

you can submit your 23andme results to HIR Search
http://hirs.snpology.com
to compare them with tested by FTDNA, 23andme and Decodeme.

Use the e-mail address near the copyright sign to contact the team.

-- Leon Kull
Yehud, Israel

My wife and I have recently been approached my 23andMe and offered a
full dna test ("500,000 data points") in exchange for participating in a
study of Parkinson's disease, since it occurs in both our families.
...
David Shapiro
Jerusalem


#Ciechanow #Poland RE: more on the cemetery, etc. #ciechanow #poland

Stan Zeidenberg
 

I want to suggest that for now we put a hold on the group discussion of
cemetery restoration. Instead, I recommend that anyone interested in
researching the feasibility of such an endeavour, contact me personally and
we will thoroughly look into the matter and then report back to the group.
I think that it would be a very good idea to determine, conclusively, what
is and what is not possible in this regard.

Stan Zeidenberg, Coordinator
Ciechanow Research Group

Email: stan@...

-----Original Message-----
From: Barbara Bonfield [mailto:bbonfield@...]
Sent: June-16-10 11:31 AM
To: Ciechanow Research Group
Subject: Fw: more on the cemetery, etc.

This list is supported by JewishGen
Please show your appreciation and support by visiting
http://www.jewishgen.org/Jewishgen-erosity/contribute.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To visit the Ciechanow Shtetl page please go to:
http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/Ciechanow/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Steven,
I agree with you that the "cemetery" is just a space between large apartment
buildings. The monument was placed there by survivors of the Holocaust,
including my cousin whose entire family >from Ciechanow was murdered at
Auschwitz. He was liberated at the age of 18, brought to the U.S. by
relatives and now lives in Chicago. He described his visit to Ciechanow when
the monument was placed there and it was meaningful for him. He did say
that the modern Ciechanow is "quite pretty" - too pretty for the horrible
events that took place there.

I guess, as a memorial to all the victims of the Holocaust and to our
ancestors who were buried there, I feel compelled to do something that makes
a statement that the little bit that remains of the cemetery is hallowed
ground and should not be used for any other purpose.

When I visited Poland in 2004, I also went to Mlawa where other of my
ancestors lived. The cemetery there is larger, has a larger memorial but is
still unkempt and should have someone's attention.

I brought stones >from both cemeteries and placed them on my father's grave.
Barbara
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven D. Bloom" <sbloom@...>
To: "Ciechanow Research Group" <ciechanow@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 9:00 AM
Subject: more on the cemetery, etc.

Just to be a bit more clear, since it would seem to the average reader
that some of our posts might be contradictory.

My guide in Ciechanow in 2008 said that there had been two cemeteries,
the old one and a newer (20th century) one. The old one didn't seem to
exist in any form at all, as far as I could tell. The new one was sort
of a lot, but I think maybe better described as a strip of park in
front of an apartment building. No stones or anything, not even
crushed or knocked down. There is a Holocaust memorial there with no
names. The inscription was quite stark and just said something about
it being a memorial to those who were martyred at the hands of the
Nazis.

from what others said, some intact stones might exist (they were use
for paving). I know in other towns, such as Aleksandrow, they were
able to retrieve a number of stones that were used for paving, but the
process of restoring the cemetery is long and arduous and costs money.

But the long and the short of it is that I wouldn't expect to see a
lot in Ciechanow, but I believe one should go to the ancestral towns
anyway, even if there is not a lot there....especially if you have
other towns you can visit that do have cemeteries. Perhaps you can do
some advance research and determine whether it would be worthwhile to
get some records at the records office in Ciechanow. I did this in other
towns.

Steve Bloom
Central Virginia


---
To post to the Ciechanow Research discussion group, send your message to:
<ciechanow@...>

This research group is hosted by
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Visit our home page at http://www.jewishgen.org

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---
To post to the Ciechanow Research discussion group, send your message to:
<ciechanow@...>

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Visit our home page at http://www.jewishgen.org

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Re: more on the cemetery, etc. #ciechanow #poland

Stan Zeidenberg
 

I want to suggest that for now we put a hold on the group discussion of
cemetery restoration. Instead, I recommend that anyone interested in
researching the feasibility of such an endeavour, contact me personally and
we will thoroughly look into the matter and then report back to the group.
I think that it would be a very good idea to determine, conclusively, what
is and what is not possible in this regard.

Stan Zeidenberg, Coordinator
Ciechanow Research Group

Email: stan@...

-----Original Message-----
From: Barbara Bonfield [mailto:bbonfield@...]
Sent: June-16-10 11:31 AM
To: Ciechanow Research Group
Subject: Fw: more on the cemetery, etc.

This list is supported by JewishGen
Please show your appreciation and support by visiting
http://www.jewishgen.org/Jewishgen-erosity/contribute.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To visit the Ciechanow Shtetl page please go to:
http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/Ciechanow/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Steven,
I agree with you that the "cemetery" is just a space between large apartment
buildings. The monument was placed there by survivors of the Holocaust,
including my cousin whose entire family >from Ciechanow was murdered at
Auschwitz. He was liberated at the age of 18, brought to the U.S. by
relatives and now lives in Chicago. He described his visit to Ciechanow when
the monument was placed there and it was meaningful for him. He did say
that the modern Ciechanow is "quite pretty" - too pretty for the horrible
events that took place there.

I guess, as a memorial to all the victims of the Holocaust and to our
ancestors who were buried there, I feel compelled to do something that makes
a statement that the little bit that remains of the cemetery is hallowed
ground and should not be used for any other purpose.

When I visited Poland in 2004, I also went to Mlawa where other of my
ancestors lived. The cemetery there is larger, has a larger memorial but is
still unkempt and should have someone's attention.

I brought stones >from both cemeteries and placed them on my father's grave.
Barbara
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven D. Bloom" <sbloom@...>
To: "Ciechanow Research Group" <ciechanow@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 9:00 AM
Subject: more on the cemetery, etc.

Just to be a bit more clear, since it would seem to the average reader
that some of our posts might be contradictory.

My guide in Ciechanow in 2008 said that there had been two cemeteries,
the old one and a newer (20th century) one. The old one didn't seem to
exist in any form at all, as far as I could tell. The new one was sort
of a lot, but I think maybe better described as a strip of park in
front of an apartment building. No stones or anything, not even
crushed or knocked down. There is a Holocaust memorial there with no
names. The inscription was quite stark and just said something about
it being a memorial to those who were martyred at the hands of the
Nazis.

from what others said, some intact stones might exist (they were use
for paving). I know in other towns, such as Aleksandrow, they were
able to retrieve a number of stones that were used for paving, but the
process of restoring the cemetery is long and arduous and costs money.

But the long and the short of it is that I wouldn't expect to see a
lot in Ciechanow, but I believe one should go to the ancestral towns
anyway, even if there is not a lot there....especially if you have
other towns you can visit that do have cemeteries. Perhaps you can do
some advance research and determine whether it would be worthwhile to
get some records at the records office in Ciechanow. I did this in other
towns.

Steve Bloom
Central Virginia


---
To post to the Ciechanow Research discussion group, send your message to:
<ciechanow@...>

This research group is hosted by
JewishGen: The Home of Jewish Genealogy
Visit our home page at http://www.jewishgen.org

Sign up now for value-added services!
http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen/ValueAdded.asp

You are currently subscribed to ciechanow as:
[bbonfield@...] To change the format of our mailings, to
stop/resume delivery (vacation), or to unsubscribe, please go to
http://www.jewishgen.org/listserv

---
To post to the Ciechanow Research discussion group, send your message to:
<ciechanow@...>

This research group is hosted by
JewishGen: The Home of Jewish Genealogy
Visit our home page at http://www.jewishgen.org

Sign up now for value-added services!
http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen/ValueAdded.asp

You are currently subscribed to ciechanow as: [stan@...] To change
the format of our mailings, to stop/resume delivery (vacation), or to
unsubscribe, please go to http://www.jewishgen.org/listserv