Date   
Initials on silver cutlery- Useful for genealogists? #germany

Ariane Mil
 

Dear Genners

I would like to know how were the customs in the different centuries and
regions to put the first initials of the names of the bride in the cutlery,
which she brought as dowry for her wedding.

Initials of first name and married name?
Initials of first name and maiden name?
Initials of married name and maiden name?

I have a scoop of my late grandmother and I would like to find out, if my
grandmother was using it or my gggrandmother. My grand-mere was born as Zoe
NETTER, everybody called her Suzanne, she married Joseph GUNTZBURGER. The
initials of the scoop are ZG

Or could the scoop be of her grandmother (Sophie GUGGENHEIM married to Max
ZIVI) ZG for ZIVI-GUGGENHEIM?

It would be nice to hear, how were the customs in the different regions of
Alsace, Germany, Switzerland, Poland etc. With kind regards

Ariane Mil, Zurich, Switzerland ariane.mil@...

MODERATOR NOTE: This is the kind of question that is best answered
off-list. A summary of the replies can be posted later if those
replies lead to any meaningful conclusion. We will post citations
of authoritative published information on the subject but personal
opinions should be sent privately.

German SIG #Germany Initials on silver cutlery- Useful for genealogists? #germany

Ariane Mil
 

Dear Genners

I would like to know how were the customs in the different centuries and
regions to put the first initials of the names of the bride in the cutlery,
which she brought as dowry for her wedding.

Initials of first name and married name?
Initials of first name and maiden name?
Initials of married name and maiden name?

I have a scoop of my late grandmother and I would like to find out, if my
grandmother was using it or my gggrandmother. My grand-mere was born as Zoe
NETTER, everybody called her Suzanne, she married Joseph GUNTZBURGER. The
initials of the scoop are ZG

Or could the scoop be of her grandmother (Sophie GUGGENHEIM married to Max
ZIVI) ZG for ZIVI-GUGGENHEIM?

It would be nice to hear, how were the customs in the different regions of
Alsace, Germany, Switzerland, Poland etc. With kind regards

Ariane Mil, Zurich, Switzerland ariane.mil@...

MODERATOR NOTE: This is the kind of question that is best answered
off-list. A summary of the replies can be posted later if those
replies lead to any meaningful conclusion. We will post citations
of authoritative published information on the subject but personal
opinions should be sent privately.

Re: Restrictions on Jewish marriages #germany

Werner Zimmt <wsz@...>
 

An Addition to Arlene Sachs' message:
Until well into the 19th century Bavaria had laws (or statutes)
designed to limit the number of Jews that could marry.

At that time only the eldest son was allowed to marry, and he
had to provide proof of : a minimum income, a recognizable trade
(in the sense of a skill like carpenter), or an estate that would
allow sufficient income.

I personally believe that that was one reason that many men
adopted family names other than their father's name.
That way the State couldn't prevent them >from marrying.

Werner Zimmt Tucson, AZ

MODERATOR NOTE: We always appreciate your including some reference
to a documentary source of confirming and additional information.

German SIG #Germany Re: Restrictions on Jewish marriages #germany

Werner Zimmt <wsz@...>
 

An Addition to Arlene Sachs' message:
Until well into the 19th century Bavaria had laws (or statutes)
designed to limit the number of Jews that could marry.

At that time only the eldest son was allowed to marry, and he
had to provide proof of : a minimum income, a recognizable trade
(in the sense of a skill like carpenter), or an estate that would
allow sufficient income.

I personally believe that that was one reason that many men
adopted family names other than their father's name.
That way the State couldn't prevent them >from marrying.

Werner Zimmt Tucson, AZ

MODERATOR NOTE: We always appreciate your including some reference
to a documentary source of confirming and additional information.

Some more professions in Vienna #austria-czech

Andrew Schwartz <anschwartz@...>
 

I like the following one:

Reisender Huhneraugenarzt (Umlaut at u)
This translates as: "Traveling chicken oculist"

Maybe the chicken crossed the road but could not see the oncoming car. <g>

...
Andy Schwartz
researching FREUND

Book by Pribram #austria-czech

Florence & Henry Wellisch <kelwel@...>
 

Does someone in this group have access to the 2 vol. book by A.F. Pribram,
entitled 'Urkunden und Akten zur Geschichte der Juden in Wien.' If so please
get back to me privately.
Henry Wellisch
Toronto

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Some more professions in Vienna #austria-czech

Andrew Schwartz <anschwartz@...>
 

I like the following one:

Reisender Huhneraugenarzt (Umlaut at u)
This translates as: "Traveling chicken oculist"

Maybe the chicken crossed the road but could not see the oncoming car. <g>

...
Andy Schwartz
researching FREUND

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Book by Pribram #austria-czech

Florence & Henry Wellisch <kelwel@...>
 

Does someone in this group have access to the 2 vol. book by A.F. Pribram,
entitled 'Urkunden und Akten zur Geschichte der Juden in Wien.' If so please
get back to me privately.
Henry Wellisch
Toronto

Re: Initials on silver cutlery #france

Eve Line Blum <eve.line.blum@...>
 

In my family, on silver cutlery as well as linen (towels,
tablecloths, napkins, etc.), the initials were always the name of the
bridegroom then the name of the bride. It was the same in my
husband's family (coming >from Alsace) and I believe it's still the
custom in the whole France (at least).

---------------------

At 12:33 +0100 13/03/05, Ariane Mil wrote:
I would like to know how were the customs in the different centuries and
regions to put the first initials of the names of the bride in the cutlery,
which she brought as dowry for her wedding.

Initials of first name and married name?
Initials of first name and maiden name?
Initials of married name and maiden name?

I have a scoop of my late grandmother and I would like to find out, if my
grandmother was using it or my gggrandmother. My grand-mere was born as Zoe
Netter, everybody called her Suzanne, she married Joseph Guntzburger. The
initials of the scoop are ZG

Or could the scoop be of her grandmother (Sophie GUGGENHEIM married to Max
ZIVI) ZG for ZIVI-GUGGENHEIM?

It would be nice to hear, how were the customs in the different regions of
Alsace, Germany, Switzerland, Poland etc.

With kind regards

Ariane Mil, Zurich, Switzerland
ariane.mil@...
--
Eve Line Blum-Cherchevsky
Besancon (France)
and also
Cercle de Genealogie Juive (International JGS in Paris)
http://www.genealoj.org

French SIG #France Re: Initials on silver cutlery #france

Eve Line Blum <eve.line.blum@...>
 

In my family, on silver cutlery as well as linen (towels,
tablecloths, napkins, etc.), the initials were always the name of the
bridegroom then the name of the bride. It was the same in my
husband's family (coming >from Alsace) and I believe it's still the
custom in the whole France (at least).

---------------------

At 12:33 +0100 13/03/05, Ariane Mil wrote:
I would like to know how were the customs in the different centuries and
regions to put the first initials of the names of the bride in the cutlery,
which she brought as dowry for her wedding.

Initials of first name and married name?
Initials of first name and maiden name?
Initials of married name and maiden name?

I have a scoop of my late grandmother and I would like to find out, if my
grandmother was using it or my gggrandmother. My grand-mere was born as Zoe
Netter, everybody called her Suzanne, she married Joseph Guntzburger. The
initials of the scoop are ZG

Or could the scoop be of her grandmother (Sophie GUGGENHEIM married to Max
ZIVI) ZG for ZIVI-GUGGENHEIM?

It would be nice to hear, how were the customs in the different regions of
Alsace, Germany, Switzerland, Poland etc.

With kind regards

Ariane Mil, Zurich, Switzerland
ariane.mil@...
--
Eve Line Blum-Cherchevsky
Besancon (France)
and also
Cercle de Genealogie Juive (International JGS in Paris)
http://www.genealoj.org

Re: Tashkent #general

Esther Ramon
 

A friend was for a long time in Tashkent and answers some of your questions:
During the WWII many Russians escaped to the East, not only Jews. Whole
factories were sent to the East with the workers including the Jews. No
special treatment of the Jews. People went to many places not only to
Tashkent. They were looking for work and in Tahkent they hoped to find work.
My friend went to Samarkand because they had relatives there and later moved
to Tashkent to learn in the University. The people of Uzbekistan (Tahkent is
its capital) were ready to let the people to settle there, not like many
other places in Russia and Sibir. Many people here tell that they were in
Tashkent and have good memories.

Esther Ramon
Jerusalem
Researching: HOMBURGER Karlsruhe; WEIL Merzig-Saar;
OPPENHEIM Hanau;
BUCHSTEIN Bavaria

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Israel" <israel@...>
Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2005 12:02 AM
Subject: Re: Tashkent

Marilyn F < mrl516@... > wrote:
I have found a few relatives >from Tashkent. Apparently they were
evacuated to Tashkent during WWII. Can anyone tell me more about this?
Why Tashkent?
snip>>>>

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Tashkent #general

Esther Ramon
 

A friend was for a long time in Tashkent and answers some of your questions:
During the WWII many Russians escaped to the East, not only Jews. Whole
factories were sent to the East with the workers including the Jews. No
special treatment of the Jews. People went to many places not only to
Tashkent. They were looking for work and in Tahkent they hoped to find work.
My friend went to Samarkand because they had relatives there and later moved
to Tashkent to learn in the University. The people of Uzbekistan (Tahkent is
its capital) were ready to let the people to settle there, not like many
other places in Russia and Sibir. Many people here tell that they were in
Tashkent and have good memories.

Esther Ramon
Jerusalem
Researching: HOMBURGER Karlsruhe; WEIL Merzig-Saar;
OPPENHEIM Hanau;
BUCHSTEIN Bavaria

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Israel" <israel@...>
Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2005 12:02 AM
Subject: Re: Tashkent

Marilyn F < mrl516@... > wrote:
I have found a few relatives >from Tashkent. Apparently they were
evacuated to Tashkent during WWII. Can anyone tell me more about this?
Why Tashkent?
snip>>>>

Did ECHOV/ECHOU come from JACOV? #general

momat@...
 

I wonder if anyone has come across the following name
ECHOV/ECHOU.My Great Great Grandmothers maiden name is listed
as this according to my Great Grand fathers death certificate, but
I cannot find this name anywhere.Is it possible it was phonetically
translated >from JACOV?

Thank you.
Maureen Mathie.
Wellington
New Zealand.

MODERATOR NOTE: Don't forget to register names being researched
with the Jewishgen Family Finder.

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Did ECHOV/ECHOU come from JACOV? #general

momat@...
 

I wonder if anyone has come across the following name
ECHOV/ECHOU.My Great Great Grandmothers maiden name is listed
as this according to my Great Grand fathers death certificate, but
I cannot find this name anywhere.Is it possible it was phonetically
translated >from JACOV?

Thank you.
Maureen Mathie.
Wellington
New Zealand.

MODERATOR NOTE: Don't forget to register names being researched
with the Jewishgen Family Finder.

Re: Tashkent #general

Alexander Sharon
 

"Robert Israel" wrote
When it became clear that the Germans were going to capture much of
European Russia and Ukraine, the Soviets moved as many as possible of
their factories (and the workers to run them) to Asia, out of reach of
the Germans. I doubt very much that it was a case of caring about the
Jews: if you were a worker in a factory that was moved, then you moved
too.

Robert Israel
israel@...
Vancouver, BC, Canada

Not only the factory workers but anyone who wanted to be
evacuated, have been allowed to do so.
Many local Jews and Polish Jewish refugees have not been
associated with factories, those people were tradesmen or
often without any profession at all.

Traveling by train to the evacuation places was not easy,
people have been occupying freight cars, but this was a common
travel way those days in USSR. At least people have been going
to the safe places. Often trains were subject to bombardments
by Germans planes. And people who stay behind were
murdered.

Alexander Sharon
Calgary, Ab

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Tashkent #general

Alexander Sharon
 

"Robert Israel" wrote
When it became clear that the Germans were going to capture much of
European Russia and Ukraine, the Soviets moved as many as possible of
their factories (and the workers to run them) to Asia, out of reach of
the Germans. I doubt very much that it was a case of caring about the
Jews: if you were a worker in a factory that was moved, then you moved
too.

Robert Israel
israel@...
Vancouver, BC, Canada

Not only the factory workers but anyone who wanted to be
evacuated, have been allowed to do so.
Many local Jews and Polish Jewish refugees have not been
associated with factories, those people were tradesmen or
often without any profession at all.

Traveling by train to the evacuation places was not easy,
people have been occupying freight cars, but this was a common
travel way those days in USSR. At least people have been going
to the safe places. Often trains were subject to bombardments
by Germans planes. And people who stay behind were
murdered.

Alexander Sharon
Calgary, Ab

West Virginia Jewish genealogy #general

Julian H. Preisler
 

Hello All:

I am doing research on Jewish history, Jewish families
and Jewish life in West Virginia for a research
project, website, and eventually a book.

I would be pleased to hear >from anyone who lives in
West Virginia, has family roots in West Virginia, or
perhaps has an interest in West Virginia Jewish
history and genealogy.

I have created a new website (a work "in-progress" &
continually being updated) "West Virginia Jewish
History & Genealogy" www.WestVirginiaJewishHistory.com

I look forward to hearing >from all of you.

Thanks very much,

Mr. Julian H. Preisler
Falling Waters, West Virginia

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen West Virginia Jewish genealogy #general

Julian H. Preisler
 

Hello All:

I am doing research on Jewish history, Jewish families
and Jewish life in West Virginia for a research
project, website, and eventually a book.

I would be pleased to hear >from anyone who lives in
West Virginia, has family roots in West Virginia, or
perhaps has an interest in West Virginia Jewish
history and genealogy.

I have created a new website (a work "in-progress" &
continually being updated) "West Virginia Jewish
History & Genealogy" www.WestVirginiaJewishHistory.com

I look forward to hearing >from all of you.

Thanks very much,

Mr. Julian H. Preisler
Falling Waters, West Virginia

Reverse Directory, Brooklyn 1893 #general

cromrider@juno.com <cromrider@...>
 

If anyone has access to a reverse-look-up 1893 directory for Brooklyn,
New York, I would be very grateful. My family left Ukraine in 1893 and
on the ship's manifest stated they were going to a cousin living at
52 Osborne Street in Brooklyn, New York. The name is illegible.

At some point during the voyage, they changed their minds and scribbled
over the first name and address with another one in Baltimore, Maryland
where they settled.

And so, we have always lived here in Baltimore, and not NYC but I would
sure like to find out who my relatives were in the Big Apple along
with their descendants. That is, if I can understand their Brooklyn accent...
<GRIN>....

Please respond to me directly at cromrider@... and NOT to the
Juno address above.

Thank you,
Carol Rombro Rider Baltimore, Maryland USA CRomRider@...

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Reverse Directory, Brooklyn 1893 #general

cromrider@juno.com <cromrider@...>
 

If anyone has access to a reverse-look-up 1893 directory for Brooklyn,
New York, I would be very grateful. My family left Ukraine in 1893 and
on the ship's manifest stated they were going to a cousin living at
52 Osborne Street in Brooklyn, New York. The name is illegible.

At some point during the voyage, they changed their minds and scribbled
over the first name and address with another one in Baltimore, Maryland
where they settled.

And so, we have always lived here in Baltimore, and not NYC but I would
sure like to find out who my relatives were in the Big Apple along
with their descendants. That is, if I can understand their Brooklyn accent...
<GRIN>....

Please respond to me directly at cromrider@... and NOT to the
Juno address above.

Thank you,
Carol Rombro Rider Baltimore, Maryland USA CRomRider@...