JewishGen.org Discussion Group FAQs
What is the JewishGen.org Discussion Group?
The JewishGen.org Discussion Group unites thousands of Jewish genealogical researchers worldwide as they research their family history, search for relatives, and share information, ideas, methods, tips, techniques, and resources. The JewishGen.org Discussion Group makes it easy, quick, and fun, to connect with others around the world.
Is it Secure?
Yes. JewishGen is using a state of the art platform with the most contemporary security standards. JewishGen will never share member information with third parties.
How is the New JewishGen.org Discussion Group better than the old one?
Our old Discussion List platform was woefully antiquated. Among its many challenges: it was not secure, it required messages to be sent in Plain Text, did not support accented characters or languages other than English, could not display links or images, and had archives that were not mobile-friendly.
This new platform that JewishGen is using is a scalable, and sustainable solution, and allows us to engage with JewishGen members throughout the world. It offers a simple and intuitive interface for both members and moderators, more powerful tools, and more secure archives (which are easily accessible on mobile devices, and which also block out personal email addresses to the public).
I am a JewishGen member, why do I have to create a separate account for the Discussion Group?
As we continue to modernize our platform, we are trying to ensure that everything meets contemporary security standards. In the future, we plan hope to have one single sign-in page.
I like how the current lists work. Will I still be able to send/receive emails of posts (and/or digests)?
Yes. In terms of functionality, the group will operate the same for people who like to participate with email. People can still send a message to an email address (in this case, main@groups.JewishGen.org), and receive a daily digest of postings, or individual emails. In addition, Members can also receive a daily summary of topics, and then choose which topics they would like to read about it. However, in addition to email, there is the additional functionality of being able to read/post messages utilizing our online forum (https://groups.jewishgen.org).
Does this new system require plain-text?
No.
Can I post images, accented characters, different colors/font sizes, non-latin characters?
Yes.
Can I categorize a message? For example, if my message is related to Polish, or Ukraine research, can I indicate as such?
Yes! Our new platform allows members to use “Hashtags.” Messages can then be sorted, and searched, based upon how they are categorized. Another advantage is that members can “mute” any conversations they are not interested in, by simply indicating they are not interested in a particular “hashtag.”
Will all posts be archived?
Yes.
Can I still search though old messages?
Yes. All the messages are accessible and searchable going back to 1998.
What if I have questions or need assistance using the new Group?
Send your questions to: support@JewishGen.org
How do I access the Group’s webpage?
Follow this link: https://groups.jewishgen.org/g/main
So just to be sure - this new group will allow us to post from our mobile phones, includes images, accented characters, and non-latin characters, and does not require plain text?
Correct!
Will there be any ads or annoying pop-ups?
No.
Will the current guidelines change?
Yes. While posts will be moderated to ensure civility, and that there is nothing posted that is inappropriate (or completely unrelated to genealogy), we will be trying to create an online community of people who regulate themselves, much as they do (very successfully) on Jewish Genealogy Portal on Facebook.
What are the new guidelines?
There are just a few simple rules & guidelines to follow, which you can read here:https://groups.jewishgen.org/g/main/guidelines
Thank you in advance for contributing to this amazing online community!
If you have any questions, or suggestions, please email support@JewishGen.org.
Sincerely,
The JewishGen.org Team
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JewishGen's NY Genealogy Course starts June 14
#sephardic
So many of our immigrant ancestors lived in New York City -- they
started on the Lower East Side and upgraded to the Bronx and Brooklyn; their children moved to Queens, Westchester, Long Island and New Jersey. We have census reports >from Ancestry and vital records from ItalianGen, but this class will focus on the more esoteric documents our ancestors generated, including probate, landsmanshaften, voter registration, newspapers, and court case records. This is an intermediate level genealogy course with eight text lessons you can download; there are no specific times for the course as students are international. Students will select a branch to research and receive daily advice and suggestions >from the instructor through a 24/7 Forum, in a query and answer format. Students must feel comfortable browsing the web and downloading files, have 8-10 hours available each week, and should select one NYC family where census and vital records are already documented. Tuition is $150; registration is open at: https://www.jewishgen.org/education/description.asp?course=40135 For questions, please email the instructor: Phyllis Kramer, JewishGen's VP of Education, born and bred in NYC; she will lead you through it. phylliskramer1@... Nancy Siegel (San Francisco, CA, USA) Communications Coordinator JewishGen.org
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JewishGen's NY Genealogy Course starts June 14
#yizkorbooks
So many of our immigrant ancestors lived in New York City -- they
started on the Lower East Side and upgraded to the Bronx and Brooklyn; their children moved to Queens, Westchester, Long Island and New Jersey. We have census reports >from Ancestry and vital records from ItalianGen, but this class will focus on the more esoteric documents our ancestors generated, including probate, landsmanshaften, voter registration, newspapers, and court case records. This is an intermediate level genealogy course with eight text lessons you can download; there are no specific times for the course as students are international. Students will select a branch to research and receive daily advice and suggestions >from the instructor through a 24/7 Forum, in a query and answer format. Students must feel comfortable browsing the web and downloading files, have 8-10 hours available each week, and should select one NYC family where census and vital records are already documented. Tuition is $150; registration is open at: https://www.jewishgen.org/education/description.asp?course=40135 For questions, please email the instructor: Phyllis Kramer, JewishGen's VP of Education, born and bred in NYC; she will lead you through it. phylliskramer1@... Nancy Siegel (San Francisco, CA, USA) Communications Coordinator JewishGen.org
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Sephardic SIG #Sephardim JewishGen's NY Genealogy Course starts June 14
#sephardic
So many of our immigrant ancestors lived in New York City -- they
started on the Lower East Side and upgraded to the Bronx and Brooklyn; their children moved to Queens, Westchester, Long Island and New Jersey. We have census reports >from Ancestry and vital records from ItalianGen, but this class will focus on the more esoteric documents our ancestors generated, including probate, landsmanshaften, voter registration, newspapers, and court case records. This is an intermediate level genealogy course with eight text lessons you can download; there are no specific times for the course as students are international. Students will select a branch to research and receive daily advice and suggestions >from the instructor through a 24/7 Forum, in a query and answer format. Students must feel comfortable browsing the web and downloading files, have 8-10 hours available each week, and should select one NYC family where census and vital records are already documented. Tuition is $150; registration is open at: https://www.jewishgen.org/education/description.asp?course=40135 For questions, please email the instructor: Phyllis Kramer, JewishGen's VP of Education, born and bred in NYC; she will lead you through it. phylliskramer1@... Nancy Siegel (San Francisco, CA, USA) Communications Coordinator JewishGen.org
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Yizkor Books #YizkorBooks JewishGen's NY Genealogy Course starts June 14
#yizkorbooks
So many of our immigrant ancestors lived in New York City -- they
started on the Lower East Side and upgraded to the Bronx and Brooklyn; their children moved to Queens, Westchester, Long Island and New Jersey. We have census reports >from Ancestry and vital records from ItalianGen, but this class will focus on the more esoteric documents our ancestors generated, including probate, landsmanshaften, voter registration, newspapers, and court case records. This is an intermediate level genealogy course with eight text lessons you can download; there are no specific times for the course as students are international. Students will select a branch to research and receive daily advice and suggestions >from the instructor through a 24/7 Forum, in a query and answer format. Students must feel comfortable browsing the web and downloading files, have 8-10 hours available each week, and should select one NYC family where census and vital records are already documented. Tuition is $150; registration is open at: https://www.jewishgen.org/education/description.asp?course=40135 For questions, please email the instructor: Phyllis Kramer, JewishGen's VP of Education, born and bred in NYC; she will lead you through it. phylliskramer1@... Nancy Siegel (San Francisco, CA, USA) Communications Coordinator JewishGen.org
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JewishGen's NY Genealogy Course starts June 14
#dna
So many of our immigrant ancestors lived in New York City -- they
started on the Lower East Side and upgraded to the Bronx and Brooklyn; their children moved to Queens, Westchester, Long Island and New Jersey. We have census reports >from Ancestry and vital records from ItalianGen, but this class will focus on the more esoteric documents our ancestors generated, including probate, landsmanshaften, voter registration, newspapers, and court case records. This is an intermediate level genealogy course with eight text lessons you can download; there are no specific times for the course as students are international. Students will select a branch to research and receive daily advice and suggestions >from the instructor through a 24/7 Forum, in a query and answer format. Students must feel comfortable browsing the web and downloading files, have 8-10 hours available each week, and should select one NYC family where census and vital records are already documented. Tuition is $150; registration is open at: https://www.jewishgen.org/education/description.asp?course=40135 For questions, please email the instructor: Phyllis Kramer, JewishGen's VP of Education, born and bred in NYC; she will lead you through it. phylliskramer1@... Nancy Siegel (San Francisco, CA, USA) Communications Coordinator JewishGen.org
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JewishGen's NY Genealogy Course starts June 14
#latvia
So many of our immigrant ancestors lived in New York City -- they
started on the Lower East Side and upgraded to the Bronx and Brooklyn; their children moved to Queens, Westchester, Long Island and New Jersey. We have census reports >from Ancestry and vital records from ItalianGen, but this class will focus on the more esoteric documents our ancestors generated, including probate, landsmanshaften, voter registration, newspapers, and court case records. This is an intermediate level genealogy course with eight text lessons you can download; there are no specific times for the course as students are international. Students will select a branch to research and receive daily advice and suggestions >from the instructor through a 24/7 Forum, in a query and answer format. Students must feel comfortable browsing the web and downloading files, have 8-10 hours available each week, and should select one NYC family where census and vital records are already documented. Tuition is $150; registration is open at: https://www.jewishgen.org/education/description.asp?course=40135 For questions, please email the instructor: Phyllis Kramer, JewishGen's VP of Education, born and bred in NYC; she will lead you through it. phylliskramer1@... Nancy Siegel (San Francisco, CA, USA) Communications Coordinator JewishGen.org
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JewishGen's NY Genealogy Course starts June 14
#rabbinic
So many of our immigrant ancestors lived in New York City -- they
started on the Lower East Side and upgraded to the Bronx and Brooklyn; their children moved to Queens, Westchester, Long Island and New Jersey. We have census reports >from Ancestry and vital records from ItalianGen, but this class will focus on the more esoteric documents our ancestors generated, including probate, landsmanshaften, voter registration, newspapers, and court case records. This is an intermediate level genealogy course with eight text lessons you can download; there are no specific times for the course as students are international. Students will select a branch to research and receive daily advice and suggestions >from the instructor through a 24/7 Forum, in a query and answer format. Students must feel comfortable browsing the web and downloading files, have 8-10 hours available each week, and should select one NYC family where census and vital records are already documented. Tuition is $150; registration is open at: https://www.jewishgen.org/education/description.asp?course=40135 For questions, please email the instructor: Phyllis Kramer, JewishGen's VP of Education, born and bred in NYC; she will lead you through it. phylliskramer1@... Nancy Siegel (San Francisco, CA, USA) Communications Coordinator JewishGen.org
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JewishGen's NY Genealogy Course starts June 14
#scandinavia
So many of our immigrant ancestors lived in New York City -- they
started on the Lower East Side and upgraded to the Bronx and Brooklyn; their children moved to Queens, Westchester, Long Island and New Jersey. We have census reports >from Ancestry and vital records from ItalianGen, but this class will focus on the more esoteric documents our ancestors generated, including probate, landsmanshaften, voter registration, newspapers, and court case records. This is an intermediate level genealogy course with eight text lessons you can download; there are no specific times for the course as students are international. Students will select a branch to research and receive daily advice and suggestions >from the instructor through a 24/7 Forum, in a query and answer format. Students must feel comfortable browsing the web and downloading files, have 8-10 hours available each week, and should select one NYC family where census and vital records are already documented. Tuition is $150; registration is open at: https://www.jewishgen.org/education/description.asp?course=40135 For questions, please email the instructor: Phyllis Kramer, JewishGen's VP of Education, born and bred in NYC; she will lead you through it. phylliskramer1@... Nancy Siegel (San Francisco, CA, USA) Communications Coordinator JewishGen.org
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DNA Research #DNA JewishGen's NY Genealogy Course starts June 14
#dna
So many of our immigrant ancestors lived in New York City -- they
started on the Lower East Side and upgraded to the Bronx and Brooklyn; their children moved to Queens, Westchester, Long Island and New Jersey. We have census reports >from Ancestry and vital records from ItalianGen, but this class will focus on the more esoteric documents our ancestors generated, including probate, landsmanshaften, voter registration, newspapers, and court case records. This is an intermediate level genealogy course with eight text lessons you can download; there are no specific times for the course as students are international. Students will select a branch to research and receive daily advice and suggestions >from the instructor through a 24/7 Forum, in a query and answer format. Students must feel comfortable browsing the web and downloading files, have 8-10 hours available each week, and should select one NYC family where census and vital records are already documented. Tuition is $150; registration is open at: https://www.jewishgen.org/education/description.asp?course=40135 For questions, please email the instructor: Phyllis Kramer, JewishGen's VP of Education, born and bred in NYC; she will lead you through it. phylliskramer1@... Nancy Siegel (San Francisco, CA, USA) Communications Coordinator JewishGen.org
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Latvia SIG #Latvia JewishGen's NY Genealogy Course starts June 14
#latvia
So many of our immigrant ancestors lived in New York City -- they
started on the Lower East Side and upgraded to the Bronx and Brooklyn; their children moved to Queens, Westchester, Long Island and New Jersey. We have census reports >from Ancestry and vital records from ItalianGen, but this class will focus on the more esoteric documents our ancestors generated, including probate, landsmanshaften, voter registration, newspapers, and court case records. This is an intermediate level genealogy course with eight text lessons you can download; there are no specific times for the course as students are international. Students will select a branch to research and receive daily advice and suggestions >from the instructor through a 24/7 Forum, in a query and answer format. Students must feel comfortable browsing the web and downloading files, have 8-10 hours available each week, and should select one NYC family where census and vital records are already documented. Tuition is $150; registration is open at: https://www.jewishgen.org/education/description.asp?course=40135 For questions, please email the instructor: Phyllis Kramer, JewishGen's VP of Education, born and bred in NYC; she will lead you through it. phylliskramer1@... Nancy Siegel (San Francisco, CA, USA) Communications Coordinator JewishGen.org
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Rabbinic Genealogy SIG #Rabbinic JewishGen's NY Genealogy Course starts June 14
#rabbinic
So many of our immigrant ancestors lived in New York City -- they
started on the Lower East Side and upgraded to the Bronx and Brooklyn; their children moved to Queens, Westchester, Long Island and New Jersey. We have census reports >from Ancestry and vital records from ItalianGen, but this class will focus on the more esoteric documents our ancestors generated, including probate, landsmanshaften, voter registration, newspapers, and court case records. This is an intermediate level genealogy course with eight text lessons you can download; there are no specific times for the course as students are international. Students will select a branch to research and receive daily advice and suggestions >from the instructor through a 24/7 Forum, in a query and answer format. Students must feel comfortable browsing the web and downloading files, have 8-10 hours available each week, and should select one NYC family where census and vital records are already documented. Tuition is $150; registration is open at: https://www.jewishgen.org/education/description.asp?course=40135 For questions, please email the instructor: Phyllis Kramer, JewishGen's VP of Education, born and bred in NYC; she will lead you through it. phylliskramer1@... Nancy Siegel (San Francisco, CA, USA) Communications Coordinator JewishGen.org
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Scandinavia SIG #Scandinavia JewishGen's NY Genealogy Course starts June 14
#scandinavia
So many of our immigrant ancestors lived in New York City -- they
started on the Lower East Side and upgraded to the Bronx and Brooklyn; their children moved to Queens, Westchester, Long Island and New Jersey. We have census reports >from Ancestry and vital records from ItalianGen, but this class will focus on the more esoteric documents our ancestors generated, including probate, landsmanshaften, voter registration, newspapers, and court case records. This is an intermediate level genealogy course with eight text lessons you can download; there are no specific times for the course as students are international. Students will select a branch to research and receive daily advice and suggestions >from the instructor through a 24/7 Forum, in a query and answer format. Students must feel comfortable browsing the web and downloading files, have 8-10 hours available each week, and should select one NYC family where census and vital records are already documented. Tuition is $150; registration is open at: https://www.jewishgen.org/education/description.asp?course=40135 For questions, please email the instructor: Phyllis Kramer, JewishGen's VP of Education, born and bred in NYC; she will lead you through it. phylliskramer1@... Nancy Siegel (San Francisco, CA, USA) Communications Coordinator JewishGen.org
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So many of our immigrant ancestors lived in New York City -- they
started on the Lower East Side and upgraded to the Bronx and Brooklyn; their children moved to Queens, Westchester, Long Island and New Jersey. We have census reports >from Ancestry and vital records from ItalianGen, but this class will focus on the more esoteric documents our ancestors generated, including probate, landsmanshaften, voter registration, newspapers, and court case records. This is an intermediate level genealogy course with eight text lessons you can download; there are no specific times for the course as students are international. Students will select a branch to research and receive daily advice and suggestions >from the instructor through a 24/7 Forum, in a query and answer format. Students must feel comfortable browsing the web and downloading files, have 8-10 hours available each week, and should select one NYC family where census and vital records are already documented. Tuition is $150; registration is open at: https://www.jewishgen.org/education/description.asp?course=40135 For questions, please email the instructor: Phyllis Kramer, JewishGen's VP of Education, born and bred in NYC; she will lead you through it. phylliskramer1@... Nancy Siegel (San Francisco, CA, USA) Communications Coordinator JewishGen.org
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Re: Brick Wall Inquiry: Ben Greenberg ship manifest abt 1902
#general
Phyllis Kramer
Fern asked if a manifest entry for Berl [?]stein ...living in
Pyatigory, Russia (now Ukraine), given name there was Berko or Berl, could be the same person as the 1942 WWII Draft Registration Card, with place of birth Zaskov, Russia Looking at JewishGen's community page for Zaskov (now Zhaskiv in the Ukraine)...the town of Pyatyhory is 10 miles away....so its a safe assumption that the two documents are for the same person. By the way, the New York Complex Genealogy Course will begin June 17; we'll cover probate, naturalization, and the more obscure records for our New York ancestors...for more information go to https://www.jewishgen.org/education/description.asp?course=40135 happy hunting! Phyllis Kramer, New York City, Palm Beach Gardens, Fla V.P.Education, JewishGen Inc: https://www.JewishGen.org/education
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So many of our immigrant ancestors lived in New York City -- they
started on the Lower East Side and upgraded to the Bronx and Brooklyn; their children moved to Queens, Westchester, Long Island and New Jersey. We have census reports >from Ancestry and vital records from ItalianGen, but this class will focus on the more esoteric documents our ancestors generated, including probate, landsmanshaften, voter registration, newspapers, and court case records. This is an intermediate level genealogy course with eight text lessons you can download; there are no specific times for the course as students are international. Students will select a branch to research and receive daily advice and suggestions >from the instructor through a 24/7 Forum, in a query and answer format. Students must feel comfortable browsing the web and downloading files, have 8-10 hours available each week, and should select one NYC family where census and vital records are already documented. Tuition is $150; registration is open at: https://www.jewishgen.org/education/description.asp?course=40135 For questions, please email the instructor: Phyllis Kramer, JewishGen's VP of Education, born and bred in NYC; she will lead you through it. phylliskramer1@... Nancy Siegel (San Francisco, CA, USA) Communications Coordinator JewishGen.org
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JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Brick Wall Inquiry: Ben Greenberg ship manifest abt 1902
#general
Phyllis Kramer
Fern asked if a manifest entry for Berl [?]stein ...living in
Pyatigory, Russia (now Ukraine), given name there was Berko or Berl, could be the same person as the 1942 WWII Draft Registration Card, with place of birth Zaskov, Russia Looking at JewishGen's community page for Zaskov (now Zhaskiv in the Ukraine)...the town of Pyatyhory is 10 miles away....so its a safe assumption that the two documents are for the same person. By the way, the New York Complex Genealogy Course will begin June 17; we'll cover probate, naturalization, and the more obscure records for our New York ancestors...for more information go to https://www.jewishgen.org/education/description.asp?course=40135 happy hunting! Phyllis Kramer, New York City, Palm Beach Gardens, Fla V.P.Education, JewishGen Inc: https://www.JewishGen.org/education
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This week's Yizkor book excerpt on the JewishGen Facebook page
#general
Bruce Drake
"In the Fight for Life," >from the Yizkor book of Sokoly, Poland is the
story of a beautiful young woman named Bubcha Safran who gave up a safe haven with a caring Polish family for the Bialystock ghetto so that she could live -- and ultimately -- die among Jews. When she and her family first fled the elimination of Jews in Sokoly, they were shunned by Poles when they sought shelter and food as they made their way to the forests in the harsh cold. One night, >from the top of a hill where she was standing with her increasingly frail and weak parents, she saw a single light shining >from a house and decided to try once more. To her surprise, the woman who answered the door invited them all in to get warm and to eat, and the Safrans became part of the household. But her turning point came when she was asked one night to sing a song and choked with tears at the last line: "Walesam sie jak opetany pies!" (I will wander like a dog without a home!). Soon word came "that it was still quiet in the Bialystok ghetto" where many Sokoly Jews had gathered, and Bubcha saw the chance for her and her family to be once again "together with their brothers the Children of Israel." The young man in the household that had taken the Safrans in told her she faced certain death and implored her not to go. The ghetto is where the author of this chapter encountered her. "We parted, and I never saw her again." URL: https://www.facebook.com/JewishGen.org/posts/2275296165825859 Bruce Drake Researching: DRACH, EBERT, KIMMEL, ZLOTNICK Towns: Wojnilow, Kovel
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JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen This week's Yizkor book excerpt on the JewishGen Facebook page
#general
Bruce Drake
"In the Fight for Life," >from the Yizkor book of Sokoly, Poland is the
story of a beautiful young woman named Bubcha Safran who gave up a safe haven with a caring Polish family for the Bialystock ghetto so that she could live -- and ultimately -- die among Jews. When she and her family first fled the elimination of Jews in Sokoly, they were shunned by Poles when they sought shelter and food as they made their way to the forests in the harsh cold. One night, >from the top of a hill where she was standing with her increasingly frail and weak parents, she saw a single light shining >from a house and decided to try once more. To her surprise, the woman who answered the door invited them all in to get warm and to eat, and the Safrans became part of the household. But her turning point came when she was asked one night to sing a song and choked with tears at the last line: "Walesam sie jak opetany pies!" (I will wander like a dog without a home!). Soon word came "that it was still quiet in the Bialystok ghetto" where many Sokoly Jews had gathered, and Bubcha saw the chance for her and her family to be once again "together with their brothers the Children of Israel." The young man in the household that had taken the Safrans in told her she faced certain death and implored her not to go. The ghetto is where the author of this chapter encountered her. "We parted, and I never saw her again." URL: https://www.facebook.com/JewishGen.org/posts/2275296165825859 Bruce Drake Researching: DRACH, EBERT, KIMMEL, ZLOTNICK Towns: Wojnilow, Kovel
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Research in Warsaw archives, and access to LDS films *not* digitized
#general
Joel weiner
Background: I have spent many years researching my ENDEWELT folks in
Warsaw. I have data on several hundred individuals >from the early 1800s to the Holocaust. However, data on my direct ancestral line ends with my great-grandfather (Mojsche Endervelt b.1878) who died in New York City. His Death Certificate has his father's name as "Jacob." In all my research, I have not found any Jacob/Yacov/etc. of the right age. Mojsche and his wife Golda Fishman/Fiszman were married in Warsaw 1897/98. I have not found any records on familysearch or jewishgen for that family. Questions: 1. Have all of the 19th century Jewish records in the Warsaw Archives been copied by the LDS? 2. If not, are they accessible to a researcher I would hire there? 2. I see in the LDS catalog that there are films listed as "Granite Mountain Record Vault." How does one get to view those films not yet on-line? Specifically, film 106421224. 3. Any other suggestions for this brick wall? TIA, Joel Weiner
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JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Research in Warsaw archives, and access to LDS films *not* digitized
#general
Joel weiner
Background: I have spent many years researching my ENDEWELT folks in
Warsaw. I have data on several hundred individuals >from the early 1800s to the Holocaust. However, data on my direct ancestral line ends with my great-grandfather (Mojsche Endervelt b.1878) who died in New York City. His Death Certificate has his father's name as "Jacob." In all my research, I have not found any Jacob/Yacov/etc. of the right age. Mojsche and his wife Golda Fishman/Fiszman were married in Warsaw 1897/98. I have not found any records on familysearch or jewishgen for that family. Questions: 1. Have all of the 19th century Jewish records in the Warsaw Archives been copied by the LDS? 2. If not, are they accessible to a researcher I would hire there? 2. I see in the LDS catalog that there are films listed as "Granite Mountain Record Vault." How does one get to view those films not yet on-line? Specifically, film 106421224. 3. Any other suggestions for this brick wall? TIA, Joel Weiner
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