Date   

Re: Jewish or English? #general

Stan Goodman <SPAM_FOILER@...>
 

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 04:40:09 UTC, hekenvin@bellsouth.net opined:

This message was posted on jewishgen:

"Tell me, would the Jews in England, whether they had been their for a couple of
centuries or not.....If they came to America, say in 1700's, would they have been
considered English or Jewish, as far as records were concerned or as far as their
descendents were concerned?"

The emigres would be considered English people of the Jewish faith.

Judaism is a religion. Some would say it is a culture or a way of life; but it
is not a nationality.
That may be too rigid a statement. Until recently, Israeli ID
documents carried rubrics for both religion and nationality, so
"Jewish by nationality" is not inherenly wrong. The latter, for Jews,
was "Yehudit", "Jewish". The Western concept of "religion" does not
encompass all of Judaism. For Arabs, religion was "Muslim" or
"Christian" (the latter further divided by confession), and the
nationality was "Arab". The two clsasifications are not congruent.

The Soviet sin was not in defining jewish nationality (they did the
same with respect to each and every one of the many minorities (and
major groups as well) in the Soviet Union. It was in making use of the
definition for imposing civil disabilities upon Soviet citizens of
Jewish nationality.

I would wager that Jews arriving in the colonies >from Britain in the
eighteenth century would have been considered as Englishmen or Jews
depending upon both the Jew in question and the observing colonist.
But if the timeframe of the question is before American independence,
there is no question that a British subject remained a British subject
upon migration >from England to America.

"Nationality" means something rather different in the US, where it is
understood to mean citizenship and nothing more. That isn't true in
most other parts.

--
Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better). the
URL is:
http://www.hashkedim.com

For reasons connected with anti-spam/junk security, the return address is
not valid. To communicate with me, please visit my website (see the URL
above -- no Java required for this purpose) and fill in the email form there.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Jewish or English? #general

Stan Goodman <SPAM_FOILER@...>
 

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 04:40:09 UTC, hekenvin@bellsouth.net opined:

This message was posted on jewishgen:

"Tell me, would the Jews in England, whether they had been their for a couple of
centuries or not.....If they came to America, say in 1700's, would they have been
considered English or Jewish, as far as records were concerned or as far as their
descendents were concerned?"

The emigres would be considered English people of the Jewish faith.

Judaism is a religion. Some would say it is a culture or a way of life; but it
is not a nationality.
That may be too rigid a statement. Until recently, Israeli ID
documents carried rubrics for both religion and nationality, so
"Jewish by nationality" is not inherenly wrong. The latter, for Jews,
was "Yehudit", "Jewish". The Western concept of "religion" does not
encompass all of Judaism. For Arabs, religion was "Muslim" or
"Christian" (the latter further divided by confession), and the
nationality was "Arab". The two clsasifications are not congruent.

The Soviet sin was not in defining jewish nationality (they did the
same with respect to each and every one of the many minorities (and
major groups as well) in the Soviet Union. It was in making use of the
definition for imposing civil disabilities upon Soviet citizens of
Jewish nationality.

I would wager that Jews arriving in the colonies >from Britain in the
eighteenth century would have been considered as Englishmen or Jews
depending upon both the Jew in question and the observing colonist.
But if the timeframe of the question is before American independence,
there is no question that a British subject remained a British subject
upon migration >from England to America.

"Nationality" means something rather different in the US, where it is
understood to mean citizenship and nothing more. That isn't true in
most other parts.

--
Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better). the
URL is:
http://www.hashkedim.com

For reasons connected with anti-spam/junk security, the return address is
not valid. To communicate with me, please visit my website (see the URL
above -- no Java required for this purpose) and fill in the email form there.


Re: Alex Calzareth and the Aufbau project #germany

ralphnbaer@...
 

I add that last year as a college Junior, Alex spent at least one semester
studying in Germany. I received one message >from him with gravestone photos of
stones for people of mutual interest >from the Wiesloch (Baden) cemetery.

I don't think that I received a reply to a subsequent message.

Ralph Baer Washington, DC ralphnbaer@aol.com


German SIG #Germany Re: Alex Calzareth and the Aufbau project #germany

ralphnbaer@...
 

I add that last year as a college Junior, Alex spent at least one semester
studying in Germany. I received one message >from him with gravestone photos of
stones for people of mutual interest >from the Wiesloch (Baden) cemetery.

I don't think that I received a reply to a subsequent message.

Ralph Baer Washington, DC ralphnbaer@aol.com


1926-7 Polish Business Directory-Versus the 1929 Polish B.D. #germany

Abuwasta Abuwasta
 

I believe that Logan Kleinwachs should be
congratulated for the tremendous effort by making this
directory available to us.
Though smaller than the 1929 Polish Business Directory
it enables an interesting comparison of the businesses
in every location in a matter of 3 years.
I myself research the KOENIGSBUCH family >from Brzesko
(image 209 in the Directory) and managed to locate
Koenigsbuchs in the 1926 version who were not there
anymore in 1929 and vice versa. Now I have the
questions which will lead me hopefully to some answers.

Jacob Rosen Jerusalem <abuwasta@yahoo.com>


German SIG #Germany 1926-7 Polish Business Directory-Versus the 1929 Polish B.D. #germany

Abuwasta Abuwasta
 

I believe that Logan Kleinwachs should be
congratulated for the tremendous effort by making this
directory available to us.
Though smaller than the 1929 Polish Business Directory
it enables an interesting comparison of the businesses
in every location in a matter of 3 years.
I myself research the KOENIGSBUCH family >from Brzesko
(image 209 in the Directory) and managed to locate
Koenigsbuchs in the 1926 version who were not there
anymore in 1929 and vice versa. Now I have the
questions which will lead me hopefully to some answers.

Jacob Rosen Jerusalem <abuwasta@yahoo.com>


Seeking Lost KRG Members #galicia

Alan Weiser <alanboy@...>
 

The following Kolomea Research Group members' email addresses have
failed. If they or anyone who knows them ask them to contact me with
their current email addresses. They will not be receiving Group
notices unless their email addresses are brought up to date.
RICK BORTEN, HOWARD FISHMAN, PHILIP BITTMANN

Thank you,
Alan Weiser. Coordinator
Koloea Research Group & Web Site
alanboy@starpower.net
Silver Spring


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia Seeking Lost KRG Members #galicia

Alan Weiser <alanboy@...>
 

The following Kolomea Research Group members' email addresses have
failed. If they or anyone who knows them ask them to contact me with
their current email addresses. They will not be receiving Group
notices unless their email addresses are brought up to date.
RICK BORTEN, HOWARD FISHMAN, PHILIP BITTMANN

Thank you,
Alan Weiser. Coordinator
Koloea Research Group & Web Site
alanboy@starpower.net
Silver Spring


LISCHAUER / LEWIS #southafrica

Avi Lishower <lishower@...>
 

Dear friend
recently i get a update that one family member >from my Lischauer family
arrived to south Africa
in about 1890-1905 >from Libau Latvia he was the son of Itiig Yossel
Lischauer in the same time
2 sibling arrive to the U.S.A yankel-moses Lischauer and Lina Miller nee
Lischauer was married to David Miler
and one brother emigrated to Canada the sibling came to the U.S.A change
their surname to LEWIS and possible also the brother
who came to S.A do the same
if somebody know Jewish people with the surname mention above in S.A THE
S.A please let me know

best regard

Avi Lishower


South Africa SIG #SouthAfrica LISCHAUER / LEWIS #southafrica

Avi Lishower <lishower@...>
 

Dear friend
recently i get a update that one family member >from my Lischauer family
arrived to south Africa
in about 1890-1905 >from Libau Latvia he was the son of Itiig Yossel
Lischauer in the same time
2 sibling arrive to the U.S.A yankel-moses Lischauer and Lina Miller nee
Lischauer was married to David Miler
and one brother emigrated to Canada the sibling came to the U.S.A change
their surname to LEWIS and possible also the brother
who came to S.A do the same
if somebody know Jewish people with the surname mention above in S.A THE
S.A please let me know

best regard

Avi Lishower


Re: Searching BERELOWITZ family #southafrica

Avi Lishower <lishower@...>
 

Dear Judith
i am >from Israel and i know a person here with the same surname Reuven
Berlowitz
but reuven is not >from Ukraina he is >from Libau Latvia
so please let me know if you thing he relayted to you


best regard

Avi Lishower

At 08:01 21/07/05, you wrote:


Subject: Searching BERELOWITZ family
From: Judith Berlowitz <jberlowitz@prodigy.net>
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 09:53:11 -0700 (PDT)

Dear Siggers,

This is my first post on the SA SIG, so greetings to
all. I've just returned >from (excessively) fabulous
Las Vegas, where I learned that there may be some
descendants of my husband's family in South Africa.
My husband's grandfather was Jankl (Jacob) BERELOWITZ
and came to America >from Ekaterinoslav, Ukraine
(village of Orekhov) in 1906. He had the choice (so
the family story goes) of going either to America or
to South Africa, where he had a cousin. Jankl's
father may have been Hirsch. If anyone recognizes
these names, I would greatly appreciate hearing from
you.

Judith Berlowitz
Berkeley, California, USA


South Africa SIG #SouthAfrica Re: Searching BERELOWITZ family #southafrica

Avi Lishower <lishower@...>
 

Dear Judith
i am >from Israel and i know a person here with the same surname Reuven
Berlowitz
but reuven is not >from Ukraina he is >from Libau Latvia
so please let me know if you thing he relayted to you


best regard

Avi Lishower

At 08:01 21/07/05, you wrote:


Subject: Searching BERELOWITZ family
From: Judith Berlowitz <jberlowitz@prodigy.net>
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 09:53:11 -0700 (PDT)

Dear Siggers,

This is my first post on the SA SIG, so greetings to
all. I've just returned >from (excessively) fabulous
Las Vegas, where I learned that there may be some
descendants of my husband's family in South Africa.
My husband's grandfather was Jankl (Jacob) BERELOWITZ
and came to America >from Ekaterinoslav, Ukraine
(village of Orekhov) in 1906. He had the choice (so
the family story goes) of going either to America or
to South Africa, where he had a cousin. Jankl's
father may have been Hirsch. If anyone recognizes
these names, I would greatly appreciate hearing from
you.

Judith Berlowitz
Berkeley, California, USA


Re: Searching BERELOWITZ family #southafrica

Judi & Laurence <schneide@...>
 

hello. we have a Berlowitz family here on Kibbutz Shluchot in Israel.
The father's name is Yosef - he must be around 75+. I think he came
from Europe before WW2. If this interests you, we can ask the family for
more info. Judi Schneider.

Judith Berlowitz wrote:

Dear Siggers,

This is my first post on the SA SIG, so greetings to
all. I've just returned >from (excessively) fabulous
Las Vegas, where I learned that there may be some
descendants of my husband's family in South Africa.
My husband's grandfather was Jankl (Jacob) BERELOWITZ
and came to America >from Ekaterinoslav, Ukraine
(village of Orekhov) in 1906. He had the choice (so
the family story goes) of going either to America or
to South Africa, where he had a cousin. Jankl's
father may have been Hirsch. If anyone recognizes
these names, I would greatly appreciate hearing from
you.

Judith Berlowitz
Berkeley, California, USA


South Africa SIG #SouthAfrica Re: Searching BERELOWITZ family #southafrica

Judi & Laurence <schneide@...>
 

hello. we have a Berlowitz family here on Kibbutz Shluchot in Israel.
The father's name is Yosef - he must be around 75+. I think he came
from Europe before WW2. If this interests you, we can ask the family for
more info. Judi Schneider.

Judith Berlowitz wrote:

Dear Siggers,

This is my first post on the SA SIG, so greetings to
all. I've just returned >from (excessively) fabulous
Las Vegas, where I learned that there may be some
descendants of my husband's family in South Africa.
My husband's grandfather was Jankl (Jacob) BERELOWITZ
and came to America >from Ekaterinoslav, Ukraine
(village of Orekhov) in 1906. He had the choice (so
the family story goes) of going either to America or
to South Africa, where he had a cousin. Jankl's
father may have been Hirsch. If anyone recognizes
these names, I would greatly appreciate hearing from
you.

Judith Berlowitz
Berkeley, California, USA


Books of Residents and Census #poland

Gilbert Hendlisz <gilbert.hendlisz@...>
 

Dear Friends,

I wanted to express my thanks to Stanley Diamond and Fay Bussgang for
focusing on the question of the Books of Residents. Those are a gold
mine for researchers with lots of informations about not only one person
you are interested in, but also his whole family, sons and daughters-in
laws, the town they came >from or the town where they decide to move to
and so on.

As Stanley may remember, there is long time that I volunteered for
indexing or helping in projects relating to these BoR, when they exist.
The question is: practically what is the project about ? Do we have to
raise money and ask the Polish Archive to make the indexing of the pages
of these BoR or do we purchase the copies of the pages and do we make
the indexing by ourselves like in the shtetl-co-op operations ? My
preference would be for the second proposal. I would like to know more
before volunteering.

Thanks for your answers.

Gilbert HENDLISZ (Brussels)


JRI Poland #Poland Books of Residents and Census #poland

Gilbert Hendlisz <gilbert.hendlisz@...>
 

Dear Friends,

I wanted to express my thanks to Stanley Diamond and Fay Bussgang for
focusing on the question of the Books of Residents. Those are a gold
mine for researchers with lots of informations about not only one person
you are interested in, but also his whole family, sons and daughters-in
laws, the town they came >from or the town where they decide to move to
and so on.

As Stanley may remember, there is long time that I volunteered for
indexing or helping in projects relating to these BoR, when they exist.
The question is: practically what is the project about ? Do we have to
raise money and ask the Polish Archive to make the indexing of the pages
of these BoR or do we purchase the copies of the pages and do we make
the indexing by ourselves like in the shtetl-co-op operations ? My
preference would be for the second proposal. I would like to know more
before volunteering.

Thanks for your answers.

Gilbert HENDLISZ (Brussels)


Re: Elias(h)/Eliyahu connection #lithuania

Harvey <harvey@...>
 

Ben Forman queried the connection between Eliash and Elihaya...

For what it's worth, MY gg grandfather, >from Ariogala in Kovno Gebirne, was
Eliyohu Eliezer ben Avrohom Dovid HaCohen, who died in 1873. He appears
posthumously in the 1874 Revision List as Eliash.

Harvey L Kaplan

Glasgow, Scotland

KAPLAN,FAYN,FEIN,FINE,BARSD,GRADMAN

- Ariogala, Josvainiai, Kedainiai, Krakes, Seta, Veliuona, Lithuania


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania Re: Elias(h)/Eliyahu connection #lithuania

Harvey <harvey@...>
 

Ben Forman queried the connection between Eliash and Elihaya...

For what it's worth, MY gg grandfather, >from Ariogala in Kovno Gebirne, was
Eliyohu Eliezer ben Avrohom Dovid HaCohen, who died in 1873. He appears
posthumously in the 1874 Revision List as Eliash.

Harvey L Kaplan

Glasgow, Scotland

KAPLAN,FAYN,FEIN,FINE,BARSD,GRADMAN

- Ariogala, Josvainiai, Kedainiai, Krakes, Seta, Veliuona, Lithuania


researching roman #poland

Alan Roman <aroman@...>
 

My father (now passed away years ago) had corresponce with relatives in
Bialystok and I'm not sure which Bialystok (woj. podlaskie or woj.
lubelskie). Grandfathers name was Adolph Roman, grandmothers name was
Sophie Bender.

Greatgrandfathers name was Paul Bender
Greatgrandmothers name was Magdalem Skutnek.

Any help would be greatly helpful.

Thank-you,
Alan Roman


BialyGen: Bialystok Region #Bialystok #Poland researching roman #poland

Alan Roman <aroman@...>
 

My father (now passed away years ago) had corresponce with relatives in
Bialystok and I'm not sure which Bialystok (woj. podlaskie or woj.
lubelskie). Grandfathers name was Adolph Roman, grandmothers name was
Sophie Bender.

Greatgrandfathers name was Paul Bender
Greatgrandmothers name was Magdalem Skutnek.

Any help would be greatly helpful.

Thank-you,
Alan Roman