Date   

Alphabetical List - LVIA #general

Sara Fraiman-Bavly <sarafb@...>
 

Shalom

I found on the Litvak SIG under Tax and Voters lists >from 1875 an Index ,
probably for my grandfather's name.
I can find it in the Vilnius archive - LVIA
LVIA/380/120/772 7953
---

The type of the record is - Alphabetical List of Jewish Men in Lida District
.
The comments are - 241 in book of Shneier.

My questions are :
1. What are Alphabetical Lists ?
2. What is Shneier ?
3. Can I get more information about the person other then what is written in
the index ?
4 How much will cost me a copy for the below name and how long to receive
it?

NOVOPRUTSKY, Khaikel Zorukh
241 in book of Shneier
Alphabetical List of Jewish Men in Lida District

1875 Resident of Lida
Lida
Vilnius LVIA/380/120/772
7953

Thank you in Advance

Sara Fraiman-Bavly
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Alphabetical List - LVIA #general

Sara Fraiman-Bavly <sarafb@...>
 

Shalom

I found on the Litvak SIG under Tax and Voters lists >from 1875 an Index ,
probably for my grandfather's name.
I can find it in the Vilnius archive - LVIA
LVIA/380/120/772 7953
---

The type of the record is - Alphabetical List of Jewish Men in Lida District
.
The comments are - 241 in book of Shneier.

My questions are :
1. What are Alphabetical Lists ?
2. What is Shneier ?
3. Can I get more information about the person other then what is written in
the index ?
4 How much will cost me a copy for the below name and how long to receive
it?

NOVOPRUTSKY, Khaikel Zorukh
241 in book of Shneier
Alphabetical List of Jewish Men in Lida District

1875 Resident of Lida
Lida
Vilnius LVIA/380/120/772
7953

Thank you in Advance

Sara Fraiman-Bavly
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada


Help translating line in German on Stanislau birth record #galicia

Thomas F. Weiss
 

Hi JGenners,

I have a birth record of a child born in Stanislau. Under the Notes
(Anmerkung) there is some German text with which I would like some
help. The information is on Viewmate, file VM8354, and is available
at http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=8354.
I recognize the name Joachim Fruchter, but would like to know what
the rest says.

Please respond to me privately at tfweiss@mit.edu.

Thomas Weiss
Newton, MA
tfweiss@mit.edu


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia Help translating line in German on Stanislau birth record #galicia

Thomas F. Weiss
 

Hi JGenners,

I have a birth record of a child born in Stanislau. Under the Notes
(Anmerkung) there is some German text with which I would like some
help. The information is on Viewmate, file VM8354, and is available
at http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=8354.
I recognize the name Joachim Fruchter, but would like to know what
the rest says.

Please respond to me privately at tfweiss@mit.edu.

Thomas Weiss
Newton, MA
tfweiss@mit.edu


Fw: Re: safrica digest: August 23, 2006 #southafrica

loonxd <loonxd@...>
 

If Arthur Goldstuck is correct then it is not only the SA officials in
Israel who are interpreting the law incorrectly. As evidenced by the great
difficulty my son had in leaving SA after a visit, authorities at the exit
ports there are also incorrect. My son is no longer a South African citizen
And his case is not an isolated one. As a result many, many ex South
Africans are taking the precaution of having a South African passport as
well as their Israeli document. As I understand it, insisting on this gives
the SA authorities greater control over the exit of cash >from that country.

Donny Loon

-------Original Message-------

Subject: Re: Information on Requirements for Travel to S.A
From: "Arthur Goldstuck" <arthurg@internet.org.za>
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 07:50:53 +0200

A new law, noticed by me on the website of the Department of Home
Affairs, South Africa, mentions that former South Africans living abroad
and
therefore travelling on a passport of their present country of residence,
now need a South African passport should they wish to enter South Africa.
The notification refers specifically to those who are still South African
citizens, but SA officials in Israel are implementing it incorrectly,
extending it to those who are South African born but not citizens any more.

Arthur Goldstuck


Re: My surname (PLEN) #southafrica

Mike Getz <mikegetz005@...>
 

Beider lists Plen (known in Courland,Shavli and Vilna). Possibly derived
from Plenen, an estate connected to Tukums in Courland.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ev and Col Plen [mailto:evancol@iafrica.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 11:44 AM
To: South Africa SIG
Subject: [safrica] My surname (PLEN)

DEar Jewishgenners
I would like you to get involved in a disagreement between my brother and
myself.
My surname is Plen. According to a recently found cousin who was born and
reared in Russia the name means Military prisoner and in Russian is a
fourletter word exactly as the name Plen .
However my brother has been searching in Jewishgen and feels certain that
Plen is a form of Blum.
He says: Further to my brother Colin's request for information, a further
word of
explanation.

Plen could come >from the Yiddish "chapped in Plen" or taken as a
prisoner of war or indeed the Russian which means something similar.

As time goes on I become more and more convinced that Plen is a
derivation of Blum and the twisting of letter P for B and M for N would
come when Blum was written in Russian letters and then later rewritten
in Western European letters. In Russian the use of P and B is different
from that in Western European languages. Of course most of our surnames
would also have been written in Yiddish which could also lead to further
consonant substitution!

If this theory was true it would explain why there are a number of Plen
families that are not related to each other.

The idea originally came to me while using the Beit Hatefutsot search
facility in Tel Aviv. That computer offered not only to search for the
exact spelling of family names but also to search for "sounds like" and
proceeded to provide me with Blum as an alternative to Plen. It is not
surprising when you think of the confusion caused when the Slavic "C"
which sounds a bit like "TZ" (as in Seidlice), when read in English is
sounded as a "K" or even a sibilant "S" sound.


South Africa SIG #SouthAfrica Fw: Re: safrica digest: August 23, 2006 #southafrica

loonxd <loonxd@...>
 

If Arthur Goldstuck is correct then it is not only the SA officials in
Israel who are interpreting the law incorrectly. As evidenced by the great
difficulty my son had in leaving SA after a visit, authorities at the exit
ports there are also incorrect. My son is no longer a South African citizen
And his case is not an isolated one. As a result many, many ex South
Africans are taking the precaution of having a South African passport as
well as their Israeli document. As I understand it, insisting on this gives
the SA authorities greater control over the exit of cash >from that country.

Donny Loon

-------Original Message-------

Subject: Re: Information on Requirements for Travel to S.A
From: "Arthur Goldstuck" <arthurg@internet.org.za>
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 07:50:53 +0200

A new law, noticed by me on the website of the Department of Home
Affairs, South Africa, mentions that former South Africans living abroad
and
therefore travelling on a passport of their present country of residence,
now need a South African passport should they wish to enter South Africa.
The notification refers specifically to those who are still South African
citizens, but SA officials in Israel are implementing it incorrectly,
extending it to those who are South African born but not citizens any more.

Arthur Goldstuck


South Africa SIG #SouthAfrica RE: My surname (PLEN) #southafrica

Mike Getz <mikegetz005@...>
 

Beider lists Plen (known in Courland,Shavli and Vilna). Possibly derived
from Plenen, an estate connected to Tukums in Courland.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ev and Col Plen [mailto:evancol@iafrica.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 11:44 AM
To: South Africa SIG
Subject: [safrica] My surname (PLEN)

DEar Jewishgenners
I would like you to get involved in a disagreement between my brother and
myself.
My surname is Plen. According to a recently found cousin who was born and
reared in Russia the name means Military prisoner and in Russian is a
fourletter word exactly as the name Plen .
However my brother has been searching in Jewishgen and feels certain that
Plen is a form of Blum.
He says: Further to my brother Colin's request for information, a further
word of
explanation.

Plen could come >from the Yiddish "chapped in Plen" or taken as a
prisoner of war or indeed the Russian which means something similar.

As time goes on I become more and more convinced that Plen is a
derivation of Blum and the twisting of letter P for B and M for N would
come when Blum was written in Russian letters and then later rewritten
in Western European letters. In Russian the use of P and B is different
from that in Western European languages. Of course most of our surnames
would also have been written in Yiddish which could also lead to further
consonant substitution!

If this theory was true it would explain why there are a number of Plen
families that are not related to each other.

The idea originally came to me while using the Beit Hatefutsot search
facility in Tel Aviv. That computer offered not only to search for the
exact spelling of family names but also to search for "sounds like" and
proceeded to provide me with Blum as an alternative to Plen. It is not
surprising when you think of the confusion caused when the Slavic "C"
which sounds a bit like "TZ" (as in Seidlice), when read in English is
sounded as a "K" or even a sibilant "S" sound.


Re: Information on Requirements for Travel to S.A #southafrica

Rosalind
 

So exactly how would one check if one is still a citizen. Would letting one's
passport expire without renewal long long ago amount to losing citizenship?
Would never stepping on SA soil for almost 40 years mean anything.
One would not want to open a Pandora's box.
Ros

----- Original Message -----
From: "Arthur Goldstuck" <arthurg@internet.org.za>
To: "South Africa SIG" <safrica@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 7:50 AM
Subject: Re:[safrica] Information on Requirements for Travel to S.A


A new law, noticed by me on the website of the Department of Home
Affairs, South Africa, mentions that former South Africans living abroad
and
therefore travelling on a passport of their present country of residence,
now need a South African passport should they wish to enter South Africa.
The notification refers specifically to those who are still South African
citizens, but SA officials in Israel are implementing it incorrectly,
extending it to those who are South African born but not citizens any
more.

Arthur Goldstuck


Re: Information on Requirements for Travel to S.A. #southafrica

Roger Shlomo Harris <rwsh@...>
 

In South Africa SIG Digest, 23 August 2006 it was written:
former South Africans living abroad and therefore travelling on a
passport
of their present country of residence, now need a South African passport
should they wish to enter South Africa.
http://home-affairs.pwv.gov.za/media_releases.asp?id=188
Only those ex-South Africans who hold dual nationality, e.g. SA and USA or
SA and UK, will require a South African passport to enter and leave South
Africa.

Exactly how this will be implemented at a SA port of entry is not stated;
how does one proves to an immigration agent that one does not have
dual nationality? Any ex-SA person is potentially a holder of dual
nationality.
Seems a poorly thought out scheme.

Kind regards,

Roger Harris.


Re: Information on Requirements for Travel to S.A. #southafrica

Jjlaca@...
 

Hi Beryl,

An important part that you left out is that this only applies to those of us
who have retained their SA citizenship and thus have dual citizenship.

Thanks for the info and link.

Jonny Joseph
Los Angeles

In a message dated 8/22/2006 10:24:30 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
safrica@lyris.jewishgen.org writes:
Subject: Information on Requirements for Travel to S.A.
From: "Beryl. B" <balden@zahav.net.il>
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 18:09:09 +0300
X-Message-Number: 2

A new law, noticed by me on the website of the Department
of Home Affairs, South Africa, mentions that former South
Africans living abroad and therefore travelling on a passport
of their present country of residence, now need a South African
passport should they wish to enter South Africa.

Detailed information is on the website of the Department of
Home Affairs i.e.

http://home-affairs.pwv.gov.za/media_releases.asp?id=188

Beryl Baleson
balden@zahav.net.il
Israel.


South Africa SIG #SouthAfrica Re: Re:Information on Requirements for Travel to S.A #southafrica

Rosalind
 

So exactly how would one check if one is still a citizen. Would letting one's
passport expire without renewal long long ago amount to losing citizenship?
Would never stepping on SA soil for almost 40 years mean anything.
One would not want to open a Pandora's box.
Ros

----- Original Message -----
From: "Arthur Goldstuck" <arthurg@internet.org.za>
To: "South Africa SIG" <safrica@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 7:50 AM
Subject: Re:[safrica] Information on Requirements for Travel to S.A


A new law, noticed by me on the website of the Department of Home
Affairs, South Africa, mentions that former South Africans living abroad
and
therefore travelling on a passport of their present country of residence,
now need a South African passport should they wish to enter South Africa.
The notification refers specifically to those who are still South African
citizens, but SA officials in Israel are implementing it incorrectly,
extending it to those who are South African born but not citizens any
more.

Arthur Goldstuck


South Africa SIG #SouthAfrica Re: Information on Requirements for Travel to S.A. #southafrica

Roger Shlomo Harris <rwsh@...>
 

In South Africa SIG Digest, 23 August 2006 it was written:
former South Africans living abroad and therefore travelling on a
passport
of their present country of residence, now need a South African passport
should they wish to enter South Africa.
http://home-affairs.pwv.gov.za/media_releases.asp?id=188
Only those ex-South Africans who hold dual nationality, e.g. SA and USA or
SA and UK, will require a South African passport to enter and leave South
Africa.

Exactly how this will be implemented at a SA port of entry is not stated;
how does one proves to an immigration agent that one does not have
dual nationality? Any ex-SA person is potentially a holder of dual
nationality.
Seems a poorly thought out scheme.

Kind regards,

Roger Harris.


South Africa SIG #SouthAfrica Re: Information on Requirements for Travel to S.A. #southafrica

Jjlaca@...
 

Hi Beryl,

An important part that you left out is that this only applies to those of us
who have retained their SA citizenship and thus have dual citizenship.

Thanks for the info and link.

Jonny Joseph
Los Angeles

In a message dated 8/22/2006 10:24:30 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
safrica@lyris.jewishgen.org writes:
Subject: Information on Requirements for Travel to S.A.
From: "Beryl. B" <balden@zahav.net.il>
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 18:09:09 +0300
X-Message-Number: 2

A new law, noticed by me on the website of the Department
of Home Affairs, South Africa, mentions that former South
Africans living abroad and therefore travelling on a passport
of their present country of residence, now need a South African
passport should they wish to enter South Africa.

Detailed information is on the website of the Department of
Home Affairs i.e.

http://home-affairs.pwv.gov.za/media_releases.asp?id=188

Beryl Baleson
balden@zahav.net.il
Israel.


Re: Information on Requirements for Travel to S.A #southafrica

Lipworth <ken@...>
 

My understanding (which, of course, may be wrong) is that the rule applies
to people who were *minors* at the time of their taking up foreign
citizenship. Despite their having obtained citizenship of their new
country, the SA Govt. seems to feel that they gave up their SA citizenship
under the coercion of their parents and not of their own free will, and on
that basis still considers them to be SA citizens.


Ken Lipworth

At 07:50 AM 23/08/2006 +0200, you wrote:
A new law, noticed by me on the website of the Department of Home
Affairs, South Africa, mentions that former South Africans living
abroad and
therefore travelling on a passport of their present country of residence,
now need a South African passport should they wish to enter South Africa.
The notification refers specifically to those who are still South African
citizens, but SA officials in Israel are implementing it incorrectly,
extending it to those who are South African born but not citizens any more.

Arthur Goldstuck


South Africa SIG #SouthAfrica Re:Information on Requirements for Travel to S.A #southafrica

Lipworth <ken@...>
 

My understanding (which, of course, may be wrong) is that the rule applies
to people who were *minors* at the time of their taking up foreign
citizenship. Despite their having obtained citizenship of their new
country, the SA Govt. seems to feel that they gave up their SA citizenship
under the coercion of their parents and not of their own free will, and on
that basis still considers them to be SA citizens.


Ken Lipworth

At 07:50 AM 23/08/2006 +0200, you wrote:
A new law, noticed by me on the website of the Department of Home
Affairs, South Africa, mentions that former South Africans living
abroad and
therefore travelling on a passport of their present country of residence,
now need a South African passport should they wish to enter South Africa.
The notification refers specifically to those who are still South African
citizens, but SA officials in Israel are implementing it incorrectly,
extending it to those who are South African born but not citizens any more.

Arthur Goldstuck


Re: ytandv digest: August 22, 2006 and Sam Gertler #yiddish

David Harris <dorsharris@...>
 

Courtney Braun wrote:

My mother's uncle was involved in the Yiddish Theater in NY and around the
U.S. The NYPL looked him up in some Yiddish lexicon of performers, and
despite a reading in bad Yiddish, my dad was able to translate it. There is
a black and white large portrait of him. He apparently, was born in Galicia
and came to the U.S.

His name was Sam Gertler.
--------------------------------------------

Sam GERTLER's bio appears in the Lexicon of the Yiddish Theatre and
his picture, in costume, appears on page 39 of the Album of the
Yiddish Theater. There are numerous references to him in Herman
Yablokoff's, "Der Payatz" telling of Gertler's friendship and travels
with Yiddish theater performers.
David Harris
Silver Spring, MD


Yiddish Theatre and Vadeville #YiddishTheatre Re: ytandv digest: August 22, 2006 and Sam Gertler #yiddish

David Harris <dorsharris@...>
 

Courtney Braun wrote:

My mother's uncle was involved in the Yiddish Theater in NY and around the
U.S. The NYPL looked him up in some Yiddish lexicon of performers, and
despite a reading in bad Yiddish, my dad was able to translate it. There is
a black and white large portrait of him. He apparently, was born in Galicia
and came to the U.S.

His name was Sam Gertler.
--------------------------------------------

Sam GERTLER's bio appears in the Lexicon of the Yiddish Theatre and
his picture, in costume, appears on page 39 of the Album of the
Yiddish Theater. There are numerous references to him in Herman
Yablokoff's, "Der Payatz" telling of Gertler's friendship and travels
with Yiddish theater performers.
David Harris
Silver Spring, MD


Re: Jewish Confederate Soldier - Omaha #general

Roger Lustig <julierog@...>
 

Given that JGFF lists *two* researchers interested in MERRITT/Omaha, I'd
reserve judgment on whether John M was Jewish. (There are five other
MERRITT researchers.)

As to why a Confederate soldier (Jewish or otherwise) would move west:
why *wouldn't* one? The post-war South wasn't exactly a hotbed of
economic growth, whereas the western states offered all manner of
opportunity. Quite a few of my (incredibly distant) Jebenhausen cousins
(SONTHEIMER, ROSENHEIM, etc.) were in Iowa or Missouri by then.

Roger Lustig
Princeton, NJ

Celia Male wrote:

Marian Merritt wrote: <I'm researching my husband's
great-grandfather, John Merritt (London, England > Louisiana >
Omaha). He was a Confederate Soldier who moved to Omaha right after
the war. I'm curious to know why a Jewish person >from the "wrong side
of the war" would choose to move west, unless he was rejoining
family. I'm interested to hear suggestions that might indicate new
research paths for me. ....>

I cannot comment about the military aspect, but I do wonder whether
John was really Jewish, as all the MERRITT I have looked at in the
1851 census of England and Wales appear really English to me! In the
1841 census, there is a handful apparently not born in England - who
could be Irish. Their professions are very non-Jewish

Perhaps John had changed his name on arrival in the US - or did he
convert on marriage to Caroline Rosenthal?

As John may not have had any close relatives in the US unless they
emigrated with him, it is natural that his wife Caroline would like
to be near her family in Omaha, Nebraska.

Caroline's father, or the wedding witnesses {REICHENBERG} may even
have offered John a job in the family business in Omaha.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Jewish Confederate Soldier - Omaha #general

Roger Lustig <julierog@...>
 

Given that JGFF lists *two* researchers interested in MERRITT/Omaha, I'd
reserve judgment on whether John M was Jewish. (There are five other
MERRITT researchers.)

As to why a Confederate soldier (Jewish or otherwise) would move west:
why *wouldn't* one? The post-war South wasn't exactly a hotbed of
economic growth, whereas the western states offered all manner of
opportunity. Quite a few of my (incredibly distant) Jebenhausen cousins
(SONTHEIMER, ROSENHEIM, etc.) were in Iowa or Missouri by then.

Roger Lustig
Princeton, NJ

Celia Male wrote:

Marian Merritt wrote: <I'm researching my husband's
great-grandfather, John Merritt (London, England > Louisiana >
Omaha). He was a Confederate Soldier who moved to Omaha right after
the war. I'm curious to know why a Jewish person >from the "wrong side
of the war" would choose to move west, unless he was rejoining
family. I'm interested to hear suggestions that might indicate new
research paths for me. ....>

I cannot comment about the military aspect, but I do wonder whether
John was really Jewish, as all the MERRITT I have looked at in the
1851 census of England and Wales appear really English to me! In the
1841 census, there is a handful apparently not born in England - who
could be Irish. Their professions are very non-Jewish

Perhaps John had changed his name on arrival in the US - or did he
convert on marriage to Caroline Rosenthal?

As John may not have had any close relatives in the US unless they
emigrated with him, it is natural that his wife Caroline would like
to be near her family in Omaha, Nebraska.

Caroline's father, or the wedding witnesses {REICHENBERG} may even
have offered John a job in the family business in Omaha.