Date   

Re: GREAT BOOK on Eastern European Jewish Life #galicia

Ida & Joseph Schwarcz <idayosef@...>
 

The book was criticized by Abraham Duker, alav hashalom, as completely
inaccurate. He wrote that if some anthropologist had written something
similar, based on Sholem Aleichem stories and the reminiscences of old
people, he would have been drummed out of the corps ( or words to that
effect, I read the review decades ago) Life is with People became the book
for students ignorant of live in Eastern Europe and was the "primary"source
for all kinds of articles written about Jews in the sixties.
Ida Selavan Schwarcz
Arad, Israel

-----Original Message-----
From: Mazur, Allan [mailto:Mazur@rff.org]
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 8:46 PM
To: Ukraine SIG
Subject: [ukraine] RE: GREAT BOOK on Eastern European Jewish Life

I believe "Fiddler on the Roof" was largely based on "Life is with People"
-- they share the same romanticized view of the shtetl.
Allan Mazur

-----Original Message-----
From: Ginsburg, Paul [mailto:GinsburgP@state.gov]
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 7:51 AM
Subject: [ukraine] GREAT BOOK on Eastern European Jewish Life

I have read countless books on Eastern European
Jewish life and history and recently came across
a fantastic book which should be mandatory reading
for anyone whose family comes >from Eastern Europe.
The book information is as follows:

"Life is With People: The Jewish Little-Town of Eastern
Europe" by Mark Zborowski and Elizabeth Herzog.
International Universities Press, Inc. New York. 1955.

Please e-mail me with any questions.

Paul W. Ginsburg
Sudilkov Online Landsmanshaft
http://www.sudilkov.com
Bethesda, MD


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine RE: GREAT BOOK on Eastern European Jewish Life #ukraine

Ida & Joseph Schwarcz <idayosef@...>
 

The book was criticized by Abraham Duker, alav hashalom, as completely
inaccurate. He wrote that if some anthropologist had written something
similar, based on Sholem Aleichem stories and the reminiscences of old
people, he would have been drummed out of the corps ( or words to that
effect, I read the review decades ago) Life is with People became the book
for students ignorant of live in Eastern Europe and was the "primary"source
for all kinds of articles written about Jews in the sixties.
Ida Selavan Schwarcz
Arad, Israel

-----Original Message-----
From: Mazur, Allan [mailto:Mazur@rff.org]
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 8:46 PM
To: Ukraine SIG
Subject: [ukraine] RE: GREAT BOOK on Eastern European Jewish Life

I believe "Fiddler on the Roof" was largely based on "Life is with People"
-- they share the same romanticized view of the shtetl.
Allan Mazur

-----Original Message-----
From: Ginsburg, Paul [mailto:GinsburgP@state.gov]
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 7:51 AM
Subject: [ukraine] GREAT BOOK on Eastern European Jewish Life

I have read countless books on Eastern European
Jewish life and history and recently came across
a fantastic book which should be mandatory reading
for anyone whose family comes >from Eastern Europe.
The book information is as follows:

"Life is With People: The Jewish Little-Town of Eastern
Europe" by Mark Zborowski and Elizabeth Herzog.
International Universities Press, Inc. New York. 1955.

Please e-mail me with any questions.

Paul W. Ginsburg
Sudilkov Online Landsmanshaft
http://www.sudilkov.com
Bethesda, MD


Re: United Spichenitzer Relief (organization?) #ukraine

NFatouros@...
 

In his message of 11-29-00 Mitch Mermel asked about the term "Spichenitzer"
or the the United Spichenitzer Relief. He mentioned that his family came >from
"Borchagaovka" near Kiev. I think "Spichenitzer" is an adjective, derived
from the name of a town; it is probably not the name of a town."
Perhaps the Relief organization was named after the town of Spikov or
"Shpikov" which is south of Vinnitsa ("Vinitza") and southwest of Kiev. The
date of the award given to one of Mr. Mermel's uncles, the Spichenitzer
Relief, could help indicate whether the award was given by an organization
formed during one of the World Wars, rather than by the usual landsmanshaft
formed by immigrants.

Another possibility it that the organization was named after a village called
"Spijkenisse" or "Spykenisse" in south west Holland , on Putten Island, 8
miles south of Rotterdam. My Columbia-Lippincott Gazetteer says this town was
noted for the manufacture of cement and of window frames.

Naomi Fatouros (nee FELDMAN)
Bloomington, Indiana
NFatouros@aol.com
Researching: BELKOWSKY, Odessa, Berdichev; FELDMAN, Pinsk; SHUTZ, SCHUTZ,
Shcherets; LEVY, Mulhouse;SAS, Podwolochisk; RAPOPORT, Tarnopol.


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Re: United Spichenitzer Relief (organization?) #ukraine

NFatouros@...
 

In his message of 11-29-00 Mitch Mermel asked about the term "Spichenitzer"
or the the United Spichenitzer Relief. He mentioned that his family came >from
"Borchagaovka" near Kiev. I think "Spichenitzer" is an adjective, derived
from the name of a town; it is probably not the name of a town."
Perhaps the Relief organization was named after the town of Spikov or
"Shpikov" which is south of Vinnitsa ("Vinitza") and southwest of Kiev. The
date of the award given to one of Mr. Mermel's uncles, the Spichenitzer
Relief, could help indicate whether the award was given by an organization
formed during one of the World Wars, rather than by the usual landsmanshaft
formed by immigrants.

Another possibility it that the organization was named after a village called
"Spijkenisse" or "Spykenisse" in south west Holland , on Putten Island, 8
miles south of Rotterdam. My Columbia-Lippincott Gazetteer says this town was
noted for the manufacture of cement and of window frames.

Naomi Fatouros (nee FELDMAN)
Bloomington, Indiana
NFatouros@aol.com
Researching: BELKOWSKY, Odessa, Berdichev; FELDMAN, Pinsk; SHUTZ, SCHUTZ,
Shcherets; LEVY, Mulhouse;SAS, Podwolochisk; RAPOPORT, Tarnopol.


Research Trip to Szatmar and Berehove #hungary

David and BethLong <dnblong@...>
 

Dear List,

My researcher friend Laszlo (who I referred to in an earlier post) is
planning a trip to Szatmar and Berehove, leaving on December 12. He would
like to have another client or two for the trip so he can keep each
person's share of the travel costs reasonable.

For Szatmar, he can both go to villages and also research in the archives
at Szatmar-Nemeti, (since he has been there several times already and knows
he will be allowed to work in the archives).

For the Ukrainian side, this is somewhat of a "fishing expedition" as far
as the archives go, since he hasn't been there yet. So, the most he can
promise for sure is to go to the village you are interested in, take photos
and gather information, and see what records are available locally (and he
will do this for a very reasonable price).

Then, he will go to the archives at Berehove and see what he can accomplish
there. If he is able to access records, he will contact people via e-mail
and let them know what he has found and see what they would like him to
pursue (he takes his laptop and goes to cyber-cafes to send and receive
e-mail while he is on the road).

Though Laszlo is Hungarian, he received his engineering degree in the
Ukraine and speaks fluent Ukrainian and Russian.

Anyone interested may contact me at dnblong@cts.com . By the way, I set up
a U.S. bank account for Laszlo so his clients can pay via personal check in
U.S. funds. This is a lot easier than having to deal with international
money transfers, etc.

Beth Long


Hungary SIG #Hungary Research Trip to Szatmar and Berehove #hungary

David and BethLong <dnblong@...>
 

Dear List,

My researcher friend Laszlo (who I referred to in an earlier post) is
planning a trip to Szatmar and Berehove, leaving on December 12. He would
like to have another client or two for the trip so he can keep each
person's share of the travel costs reasonable.

For Szatmar, he can both go to villages and also research in the archives
at Szatmar-Nemeti, (since he has been there several times already and knows
he will be allowed to work in the archives).

For the Ukrainian side, this is somewhat of a "fishing expedition" as far
as the archives go, since he hasn't been there yet. So, the most he can
promise for sure is to go to the village you are interested in, take photos
and gather information, and see what records are available locally (and he
will do this for a very reasonable price).

Then, he will go to the archives at Berehove and see what he can accomplish
there. If he is able to access records, he will contact people via e-mail
and let them know what he has found and see what they would like him to
pursue (he takes his laptop and goes to cyber-cafes to send and receive
e-mail while he is on the road).

Though Laszlo is Hungarian, he received his engineering degree in the
Ukraine and speaks fluent Ukrainian and Russian.

Anyone interested may contact me at dnblong@cts.com . By the way, I set up
a U.S. bank account for Laszlo so his clients can pay via personal check in
U.S. funds. This is a lot easier than having to deal with international
money transfers, etc.

Beth Long


Re: Marriages in the Austro-Hungarian Empire #hungary

Chaim Frenkel <chaimf@...>
 

He might also be conflating different issues. I've heard something similar
about Germany, where there were population controls on the jews. Residence
permits were required in many towns/cities. There was also (according to
one correspondent) an age limit on marriage (no one under 30)

<chaim>

"VK" == Vivian Kahn <VKahn@kmort.com> writes:
VK> Has anyone come across this situation in their research of Hungarian roots?

Under Austo-Hungarian law, only one marriage permit was issued per family,
and then only if a significant fee was paid. For instance, if a family had
five children, only one could legally be married.
VK> mod.- I wrote this reply privately to M. Cohen in response to his posting
VK> shown above. It was written "shooting >from the hip" so I think others
VK> here may wish to scrutinize my reply as well as the one >from M. Cohen.:
VK> To M. Cohen:
VK> Really! Can you cite the source of your statement? You are confusing the
VK> Province of Galicia which became part of the Austrian Empire (there was no
VK> Austro-Hungarian Empire until the Ausgleich of 1867) after the first
VK> partition of Poland (if memory serves, that would be 1772).

--
Chaim Frenkel Nonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
chaimf@pobox.com +1-718-236-0183


Conversions, etc. #hungary

David and BethLong <dnblong@...>
 

Dear Michele,

I am no expert on this subject, but I can comment that in the Andrasfalva
(Bukovina) Catholic church records are a number of birth, death, and
marriage records where people are identified as Jewish (in fact there are
several Jews who married into my husband's otherwise Catholic family). Both
were local schoolteachers, by the way.

In one interesting case, a "Maria" Rudich (born 1848) converted to
Catholicism in 1870 before her marriage to a Catholic.
All the children were raised as Catholics, and one daughter, Zsuzsanna,
became a very famous teller of folktales which were collected by Dr. Linda
Degh of Indiana University and published in several books (all available in
English translation).

There are quite a number of Jewish Rudichs in the nearby city of Radautz,
but I'm unclear which one "Maria" is descended from.

Interestingly, Dr. Degh wrote in one of her books that Zsuzanna was rumored
to have a Jewish mother (which the community felt explained why she was so
talented!) Dr. Degh herself was quite skeptical about this theory, since
she was a close personal friend of Zsuzsanna's, and had never heard her
mention it (and furthermore, "Aunt Zsuzsi" was an extremely pious
Catholic!). When I located the Andrasfalva Catholic churchbooks and found
the information about the conversion, etc., I wrote to Dr. Degh. She was
quite surprised, and amazed to find how much interesting information is
contained in those dusty churchbooks!


Beth Long
dnblong@cts.com


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Marriages in the Austro-Hungarian Empire #hungary

Chaim Frenkel <chaimf@...>
 

He might also be conflating different issues. I've heard something similar
about Germany, where there were population controls on the jews. Residence
permits were required in many towns/cities. There was also (according to
one correspondent) an age limit on marriage (no one under 30)

<chaim>

"VK" == Vivian Kahn <VKahn@kmort.com> writes:
VK> Has anyone come across this situation in their research of Hungarian roots?

Under Austo-Hungarian law, only one marriage permit was issued per family,
and then only if a significant fee was paid. For instance, if a family had
five children, only one could legally be married.
VK> mod.- I wrote this reply privately to M. Cohen in response to his posting
VK> shown above. It was written "shooting >from the hip" so I think others
VK> here may wish to scrutinize my reply as well as the one >from M. Cohen.:
VK> To M. Cohen:
VK> Really! Can you cite the source of your statement? You are confusing the
VK> Province of Galicia which became part of the Austrian Empire (there was no
VK> Austro-Hungarian Empire until the Ausgleich of 1867) after the first
VK> partition of Poland (if memory serves, that would be 1772).

--
Chaim Frenkel Nonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
chaimf@pobox.com +1-718-236-0183


Hungary SIG #Hungary Conversions, etc. #hungary

David and BethLong <dnblong@...>
 

Dear Michele,

I am no expert on this subject, but I can comment that in the Andrasfalva
(Bukovina) Catholic church records are a number of birth, death, and
marriage records where people are identified as Jewish (in fact there are
several Jews who married into my husband's otherwise Catholic family). Both
were local schoolteachers, by the way.

In one interesting case, a "Maria" Rudich (born 1848) converted to
Catholicism in 1870 before her marriage to a Catholic.
All the children were raised as Catholics, and one daughter, Zsuzsanna,
became a very famous teller of folktales which were collected by Dr. Linda
Degh of Indiana University and published in several books (all available in
English translation).

There are quite a number of Jewish Rudichs in the nearby city of Radautz,
but I'm unclear which one "Maria" is descended from.

Interestingly, Dr. Degh wrote in one of her books that Zsuzanna was rumored
to have a Jewish mother (which the community felt explained why she was so
talented!) Dr. Degh herself was quite skeptical about this theory, since
she was a close personal friend of Zsuzsanna's, and had never heard her
mention it (and furthermore, "Aunt Zsuzsi" was an extremely pious
Catholic!). When I located the Andrasfalva Catholic churchbooks and found
the information about the conversion, etc., I wrote to Dr. Degh. She was
quite surprised, and amazed to find how much interesting information is
contained in those dusty churchbooks!


Beth Long
dnblong@cts.com


Help with photo -- ViewMate #general

Lazar Kleit <lazarkl@...>
 

I have posted two photos on ViewMate - VM file 110 - of my father in army
uniform. I believe the pictures were taken circa 1905, and one viewer
informed me that the uniform was Russian and showed no rank. I would
appreciate any other information regarding approximate dates of service,
military unit, etc., that anyone may know.

Thanks in advance.

Lazar Kleit


Need translation of ViewMate - File - VM118 Polish/Belorusyn in Arabic characters? #general

Edward Potereiko <epotereiko@...>
 

Letter >from my grandfather Abraham Rafalowitz 1940,
circa. Arabic characters written in Polish/Belorusyn
combination ??? I need your help with translation.
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/

Edward Potereiko
edwardp@writeme.com
Colorado Springs, CO, USA


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Help with photo -- ViewMate #general

Lazar Kleit <lazarkl@...>
 

I have posted two photos on ViewMate - VM file 110 - of my father in army
uniform. I believe the pictures were taken circa 1905, and one viewer
informed me that the uniform was Russian and showed no rank. I would
appreciate any other information regarding approximate dates of service,
military unit, etc., that anyone may know.

Thanks in advance.

Lazar Kleit


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Need translation of ViewMate - File - VM118 Polish/Belorusyn in Arabic characters? #general

Edward Potereiko <epotereiko@...>
 

Letter >from my grandfather Abraham Rafalowitz 1940,
circa. Arabic characters written in Polish/Belorusyn
combination ??? I need your help with translation.
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/

Edward Potereiko
edwardp@writeme.com
Colorado Springs, CO, USA


Re: Cohen was often Kagan in Poland and elsewhere #general

mpfreed28315861@...
 

"Al Yellon" <tvdirector@REMOVETHISdbfc.org> wrote:
"LindaJim Morzillo" <jmorzil1@nycap.rr.com> wrote:
Yes, Judy, my father's family's name was Kagan but was Cohen in the
United States. Although this branch of the family came >from Oshmyany,
today a part of Belarus, I suspect the Kagan-Cohen change was somewhat
common. [snip]
One of the names of my ancestors in this country was KAPLAN... my
paternal grandmother's maiden name.
The surname COHEN (which was and is usually borne by a Cohen, priest)
could be spelt in different ways - like Kahan, Kahane, Coen etc.
Where Russian was spoken (as opposed to say Polish)'h' became 'g' and
thus we get Kagan, Kogan etc. Incidentally, in exactly the same way a
name like Hershstein would become Gershtein or Horowitz would become
Gorwitz. Many Cohanim took the name CAPLAN (and there are variants like
Kaplan and Kaplin etc.) In Slavic languages the word means chaplain.

Murray Freedman


Great Book on Eastern European Jewish Life #general

Ginsburg, Paul <GinsburgP@...>
 

I have read countless books on Eastern European
Jewish life and history and recently came across
a fantastic book which should be mandatory reading
for anyone whose family comes >from Eastern Europe.
The book information is as follows:

"Life is With People: The Jewish Little-Town of Eastern
Europe" by Mark Zborowski and Elizabeth Herzog.
International Universities Press, Inc. New York. 1955.

Please e-mail me with any questions.

Paul W. Ginsburg
Sudilkov Online Landsmanshaft
http://www.sudilkov.com
Bethesda, MD


Re: Marszalkowska Street #general

Isabel Cymerman
 

To Felix Falco and All,
My grandparents lived at 117 Marszalkowska Street in Warsaw. I understand
the building is no longer there. Anyone else whose family lived on that
street?

Isabel Cymerman
isabelcym@aol.com


Children given up for adoption? #general

Robyn Perlin <trekrobyn@...>
 

Now that we have been talking about including adopted children in family
trees, I was wondering how other genealogists handle the following:

Do you include children in your tree who have been given up for adoption
(biological parent is my relative)? Clearly, if there has been a
relationship with the adult child (a reunion with biological family) and
the individual wants or doesn't want to be included, I would go with their
desire -- that's my golden rule with everything in my distributed family
trees.

But, what if there's no idea who that child is that was given up? Do I
list that mother as having had 3 children that she gave up for adoption
(names unknown) (for the purpose of being complete)?

Just curious what you all think...

Robyn Perlin


Re: NYC geography #general

Robert Schoenfeld <roberts@...>
 

On 28 Nov 2000, IsraelP wrote:
Can someone tell me where 168 Norfolk would be in 1901 New York?

And does anyone have the census district for this address? We have
a February 1901 birth there, but the family does not appear in the 1900
indexed census. I thought I might try to find who lived there at the time.

That would be the lower East Side of Manhattan

Bob
e-mail:roberts@liii.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Cohen was often Kagan in Poland and elsewhere #general

mpfreed28315861@...
 

"Al Yellon" <tvdirector@REMOVETHISdbfc.org> wrote:
"LindaJim Morzillo" <jmorzil1@nycap.rr.com> wrote:
Yes, Judy, my father's family's name was Kagan but was Cohen in the
United States. Although this branch of the family came >from Oshmyany,
today a part of Belarus, I suspect the Kagan-Cohen change was somewhat
common. [snip]
One of the names of my ancestors in this country was KAPLAN... my
paternal grandmother's maiden name.
The surname COHEN (which was and is usually borne by a Cohen, priest)
could be spelt in different ways - like Kahan, Kahane, Coen etc.
Where Russian was spoken (as opposed to say Polish)'h' became 'g' and
thus we get Kagan, Kogan etc. Incidentally, in exactly the same way a
name like Hershstein would become Gershtein or Horowitz would become
Gorwitz. Many Cohanim took the name CAPLAN (and there are variants like
Kaplan and Kaplin etc.) In Slavic languages the word means chaplain.

Murray Freedman