Date   

Re: Records from Ukraine #galicia

Goodheart, Berny <Berny.Goodheart@...>
 

Robert,
My experience writing directly is that you will spend a "lot" of money and
a "lot" of time waiting and only if you're lucky, something will turn up.
Your best bet is to employ a researcher in Ukraine and have him/her order or
research the documentation for you.
This too can be time consuming and moderately expensive but if you use a
recommended researcher you are more likely to
get results. In regard to addresses of where to write to, I suggest you
obtain a copy of "Some Archival Sources for Ukrainian-
Jewish Genealogy" >from Avotaynu.

Best of luck,
Berny Goodheart
Researching: GOODHEART, GOODHEARTS, GUTHARTZ, GUTGARTS, GUTHERTZ (Fastov,
Ukraine)


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Re: Records from Ukraine #ukraine

Goodheart, Berny <Berny.Goodheart@...>
 

Robert,
My experience writing directly is that you will spend a "lot" of money and
a "lot" of time waiting and only if you're lucky, something will turn up.
Your best bet is to employ a researcher in Ukraine and have him/her order or
research the documentation for you.
This too can be time consuming and moderately expensive but if you use a
recommended researcher you are more likely to
get results. In regard to addresses of where to write to, I suggest you
obtain a copy of "Some Archival Sources for Ukrainian-
Jewish Genealogy" >from Avotaynu.

Best of luck,
Berny Goodheart
Researching: GOODHEART, GOODHEARTS, GUTHARTZ, GUTGARTS, GUTHERTZ (Fastov,
Ukraine)


We have to move -- and we have to move soon! #ukraine

SelmaN@...
 

"Listbot" is closing down in August. We should move all of the material
pertaining to KOLKI and the Kolki families written about on the listbot to
the JewishGen Ukraine SIG. I'll take all the help I can get -- because I am
also moving (selling a condo - renting an apartment), and we should do this
before I go into "panic mode"!
Thanks for any and all suggestions and help! Selma

Selma Neubauer
Philadelphia, PA USA
SelmaN@aol.com


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine We have to move -- and we have to move soon! #ukraine

SelmaN@...
 

"Listbot" is closing down in August. We should move all of the material
pertaining to KOLKI and the Kolki families written about on the listbot to
the JewishGen Ukraine SIG. I'll take all the help I can get -- because I am
also moving (selling a condo - renting an apartment), and we should do this
before I go into "panic mode"!
Thanks for any and all suggestions and help! Selma

Selma Neubauer
Philadelphia, PA USA
SelmaN@aol.com


Elbling, Germany #lithuania

Robert Mandelbaum
 

My great-great-grandparents left the town of Neishtat Shervint (currently
Kudirkos Naumiestis in Lithuania) in Suwalki Gubernia in about 1870 and
travelled to a town that was (at least then) called Elbling, Germany. In
Elbling, they had several children, some but not all of whom died, before
finally emigrating with their surviving children to the United States by way of Hamburg in 1880.

Does anyone have any knowledge of exactly what town this would have been? This is the only one of my known ancestral shtetls whose location and present-day identity I cannot discover with certainty.

According to the JewishGen ShtetlSeeker, there seem to be multiple towns with this name in Germany. Any idea which would have been the right one? (I don't know whether Elbling was supposed to have been very near to Neishtat or not, but I assume, at a minimum, that it was on the way to Hamburg [although I suppose I could be wrong about that, too].)

Finally, if anyone does know which Elbling this is, do you know which archives (presumably within Germany?) would have jurisdiction over that town's records? To what address(es) should I write?

Thanks very much,
Robert Mandelbaum
New York, New York
rmandelbau@aol.com


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania Elbling, Germany #lithuania

Robert Mandelbaum
 

My great-great-grandparents left the town of Neishtat Shervint (currently
Kudirkos Naumiestis in Lithuania) in Suwalki Gubernia in about 1870 and
travelled to a town that was (at least then) called Elbling, Germany. In
Elbling, they had several children, some but not all of whom died, before
finally emigrating with their surviving children to the United States by way of Hamburg in 1880.

Does anyone have any knowledge of exactly what town this would have been? This is the only one of my known ancestral shtetls whose location and present-day identity I cannot discover with certainty.

According to the JewishGen ShtetlSeeker, there seem to be multiple towns with this name in Germany. Any idea which would have been the right one? (I don't know whether Elbling was supposed to have been very near to Neishtat or not, but I assume, at a minimum, that it was on the way to Hamburg [although I suppose I could be wrong about that, too].)

Finally, if anyone does know which Elbling this is, do you know which archives (presumably within Germany?) would have jurisdiction over that town's records? To what address(es) should I write?

Thanks very much,
Robert Mandelbaum
New York, New York
rmandelbau@aol.com


Re: Litvak family names #lithuania

Prof. G. L. Esterson <jerry@...>
 

Alter Solomon wrote as follows:

<<I had always assumed that Solomon was an authentic Jewish surname >from the Pale of Settlement but on starting my geneological searches 12 years ago and helped immeasurably by Chaim Freedman author of Eliyahu's Branches, I was astonished to be told that Solomon was not a name that a family in a Yiddish speaking shtetl would ordinarily use in the 19C.>>

The European secular given name Saloman (written in Hebrew script) was used
in 19th century Lithuania by some Jews who had the Hebrew name Shlomo, or a
Hebrew double name formed by combining the Hebrew name Shlomo with some
linked Yiddish given name. It is known that Hebrew given names sometime
led to their being used as surnames, and perhaps this is what happened with
Alter's family.

Prof. G. L. Esterson, Ra'anana, Israel
jerry@vms.huji.ac.il


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania Re: Litvak family names #lithuania

Prof. G. L. Esterson <jerry@...>
 

Alter Solomon wrote as follows:

<<I had always assumed that Solomon was an authentic Jewish surname >from the Pale of Settlement but on starting my geneological searches 12 years ago and helped immeasurably by Chaim Freedman author of Eliyahu's Branches, I was astonished to be told that Solomon was not a name that a family in a Yiddish speaking shtetl would ordinarily use in the 19C.>>

The European secular given name Saloman (written in Hebrew script) was used
in 19th century Lithuania by some Jews who had the Hebrew name Shlomo, or a
Hebrew double name formed by combining the Hebrew name Shlomo with some
linked Yiddish given name. It is known that Hebrew given names sometime
led to their being used as surnames, and perhaps this is what happened with
Alter's family.

Prof. G. L. Esterson, Ra'anana, Israel
jerry@vms.huji.ac.il


.Solomon Surname in 19th Century Lithuania #lithuania

DBH12345@...
 

In a message dated 07/21/2001 Alter Solomon writes in the
litvaksig@lyris.jewishgen.org Digest:

<< , I was astonished to be told that Solomon was not a name that a family in a Yiddish speaking shtetl would ordinarily use in the 19C.

My family are >from Zagare on the Lithuanian border with Latvia so possibly the Courland Germanic influence could have accounted for the Solomon name used in the 1880's. >>

I am not an expert on what Yiddish names might have been used, but the
Russian and Polish versions of those names, which have been translated into English by various translators have found that Solomon was NOT an uncommon name in 19th Century Lithuania.

If you search the All Lithuania Database using the D-M Soundex system, you
will find only a few Solomons spelled exactly that way - but a very large
number spelled in various similar ways, many of which are the result of how they were translated into English. There are 592 Solomons in the Revision Lists, 194 in the tax and voter lists, 14 in various vital records and cemetery lists, 24 in directories, 29 in the Vilna Ghetto list, 55 in HaMelitz and 15 in HaMagid, and 8 in the Jewish Gen Yiskor Book Necrology for Lithuania alone. Most of these listings are for 19th Century Lithuania.

An entire branch of my family, who lived in Lithuania for more that 200 years were SOLOMONS/SOLOMENS, etc.

David Hoffman
Raseiniai District Research Group Temporary Coordinator
Ariogala Shtetl Research Group Coordinator


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania .Solomon Surname in 19th Century Lithuania #lithuania

DBH12345@...
 

In a message dated 07/21/2001 Alter Solomon writes in the
litvaksig@lyris.jewishgen.org Digest:

<< , I was astonished to be told that Solomon was not a name that a family in a Yiddish speaking shtetl would ordinarily use in the 19C.

My family are >from Zagare on the Lithuanian border with Latvia so possibly the Courland Germanic influence could have accounted for the Solomon name used in the 1880's. >>

I am not an expert on what Yiddish names might have been used, but the
Russian and Polish versions of those names, which have been translated into English by various translators have found that Solomon was NOT an uncommon name in 19th Century Lithuania.

If you search the All Lithuania Database using the D-M Soundex system, you
will find only a few Solomons spelled exactly that way - but a very large
number spelled in various similar ways, many of which are the result of how they were translated into English. There are 592 Solomons in the Revision Lists, 194 in the tax and voter lists, 14 in various vital records and cemetery lists, 24 in directories, 29 in the Vilna Ghetto list, 55 in HaMelitz and 15 in HaMagid, and 8 in the Jewish Gen Yiskor Book Necrology for Lithuania alone. Most of these listings are for 19th Century Lithuania.

An entire branch of my family, who lived in Lithuania for more that 200 years were SOLOMONS/SOLOMENS, etc.

David Hoffman
Raseiniai District Research Group Temporary Coordinator
Ariogala Shtetl Research Group Coordinator


Re: litvaksig digest: July 20, 2001 #lithuania

Bernie Hirsch <bernie06@...>
 

Hello,

Rae is for Rachel.

--
Kind regards,
Bernie Hirsch

sman@uscom.com wrote:


I have a question about the given name Rae, for a female.
What hebrew or yiddish name is this related to?
Any help will be appreciated.


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania Re: litvaksig digest: July 20, 2001 #lithuania

Bernie Hirsch <bernie06@...>
 

Hello,

Rae is for Rachel.

--
Kind regards,
Bernie Hirsch

sman@uscom.com wrote:


I have a question about the given name Rae, for a female.
What hebrew or yiddish name is this related to?
Any help will be appreciated.


Success thanks to JewishGen!! #general

Bud484BG@...
 

I never thought it would happen but it did and through my JGFF surname
posting for Minkovsky, my mother's family, in Rozhev, Kiev, Ukraine.
Several days ago I received an Email >from Israel inquiring about an Adam
Minkovsky -that given name was not familiar to me but I responded with all
the names I had. The response came: "We are your family!!!! " This
inquiry came >from one of my mother's brother's children and I now have
information on all of the descendants of members of the Minkovsky family.
They are in Israel, New York, Kiev, Miami, Germany.

I have been on Cloud 9 for the past three days, emailing back and forth
and making phone calls, and am still getting it all together.

But I have to take this time to give thanks to everyone connected with
JewishGen for all of your past help and this latest gift of finding my family.

I have already made a donation to JewishGen and will continue to support
this wonderful Group!

Beatrice Markel
Redondo Beach, California

MODERATOR NOTE: Mazel Tov, Beatrice. And thanks for remembering JewishGen.


Diminutives as clues to ancestral origin #lithuania

Jrbaston
 

Although it should not be taken as an absolute indication of
area of origin, Sheva Zucker in her excellent book, "Yiddish:
An Introduction to the Language, Literature and Culture,"
does point out that different regional dialects of Yiddish used
different diminutive endings:

This is what she calls "a very abbreviated explanation
(pronunciations transliterated >from hers, with examples mine):

* Polish Yiddish uses "ele" (Mendele), "eshi" (Layeshi)
and "tche" (Mordtche).

* Litvish (Lithuanian) Yiddish uses "ke" (Meyshke) and
"kehleh"(Khashkeleh).

* The Volin (Ukranian) dialect uses "ele" and "enyu"
(Rifkenyu).

She then adds :"There are more dialects. Feel free
to use whichever endings you like no matter where
your family comes from."

So while the ending on the diminutive or imminutive
(even more endearing) version of an ancestor's name
may not give definitive ancestors about whether he/she
was Litvish or Peylish or Ukrainian, it's another clue to
throw into the mix.

Judy Baston
JRBaston@aol.com
San Francisco, CA USA


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Success thanks to JewishGen!! #general

Bud484BG@...
 

I never thought it would happen but it did and through my JGFF surname
posting for Minkovsky, my mother's family, in Rozhev, Kiev, Ukraine.
Several days ago I received an Email >from Israel inquiring about an Adam
Minkovsky -that given name was not familiar to me but I responded with all
the names I had. The response came: "We are your family!!!! " This
inquiry came >from one of my mother's brother's children and I now have
information on all of the descendants of members of the Minkovsky family.
They are in Israel, New York, Kiev, Miami, Germany.

I have been on Cloud 9 for the past three days, emailing back and forth
and making phone calls, and am still getting it all together.

But I have to take this time to give thanks to everyone connected with
JewishGen for all of your past help and this latest gift of finding my family.

I have already made a donation to JewishGen and will continue to support
this wonderful Group!

Beatrice Markel
Redondo Beach, California

MODERATOR NOTE: Mazel Tov, Beatrice. And thanks for remembering JewishGen.


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania Diminutives as clues to ancestral origin #lithuania

Jrbaston
 

Although it should not be taken as an absolute indication of
area of origin, Sheva Zucker in her excellent book, "Yiddish:
An Introduction to the Language, Literature and Culture,"
does point out that different regional dialects of Yiddish used
different diminutive endings:

This is what she calls "a very abbreviated explanation
(pronunciations transliterated >from hers, with examples mine):

* Polish Yiddish uses "ele" (Mendele), "eshi" (Layeshi)
and "tche" (Mordtche).

* Litvish (Lithuanian) Yiddish uses "ke" (Meyshke) and
"kehleh"(Khashkeleh).

* The Volin (Ukranian) dialect uses "ele" and "enyu"
(Rifkenyu).

She then adds :"There are more dialects. Feel free
to use whichever endings you like no matter where
your family comes from."

So while the ending on the diminutive or imminutive
(even more endearing) version of an ancestor's name
may not give definitive ancestors about whether he/she
was Litvish or Peylish or Ukrainian, it's another clue to
throw into the mix.

Judy Baston
JRBaston@aol.com
San Francisco, CA USA


Zadnozniki #general

Shawn A. Nelson <shawnnelson@...>
 

A relative's naturalization papers >from 1909 list his place of birth as
Zadnozniki, Austria, 3/1/1869. When I search for this town in the
ShtetlSeeker there are "0" results. Does anyone have any suggestions on
another spelling of this town?

Thanks for any help you can provide.

Shawn Nelson
HAUPTMAN, Radomsko, Poland
RABINOWITZ, Kiev or Odessa, Russia?
SCHNALL, Zadnozniki (?), Austria


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Zadnozniki #general

Shawn A. Nelson <shawnnelson@...>
 

A relative's naturalization papers >from 1909 list his place of birth as
Zadnozniki, Austria, 3/1/1869. When I search for this town in the
ShtetlSeeker there are "0" results. Does anyone have any suggestions on
another spelling of this town?

Thanks for any help you can provide.

Shawn Nelson
HAUPTMAN, Radomsko, Poland
RABINOWITZ, Kiev or Odessa, Russia?
SCHNALL, Zadnozniki (?), Austria


Kiev, Odessa - Russia or Ukraine? #general

Shawn A. Nelson <shawnnelson@...>
 

My late great grandfather came to the US as a young boy around 1908. I am
told he came >from Kiev or Odessa. I am also told that it was Russia.
Looking at the ShtetlSeeker it seems more likely that if he was >from Kiev,
Odessa, or a town in between it would be Ukraine, not Russia. Around the
turn of the century (1900 ish) would the Kiev/Odessa, Ukraine of today
have been considered Russia?

Thanks for any help.

Shawn Nelson
HAUPTMAN, Radomsko, Poland
RABINOWITZ, Kiev or Odessa, Russia?
SCHNALL, Zadnozniki (?), Austria

MODERATOR NOTE: Check out the JewishGen Infofile entitled TRACING JEWISH
ANCESTORS: WHERE IS THE "OLD COUNTRY" LOCATED TODAY? A directory of the
25 Russian Pale gubernii (provinces)by Bernard I. Kouchel. It can be found
at <http://www.jewishgen.org/infofiles/ru-pale.txt>.


Meyshele - Meyshinke and YIVO #lithuania

Sylvia Schildt <creativa@...>
 

FYI - Russification of diminuitives in Lithuania was very common, but they
would be pronounced Yiddishly = ending a's would be eh sounds, as with an
eyin not an alef.

It might also be helpful to use the YIVO transliteration spelling for
Yiddish names because it is international and can help to avoid confusion.

The long i sound as in "mine" is spelled ay. So the example word "mine"
would be rendered as MAYN.

The longer eh sound, two yuds, no patakh, is rendered EY. So thus it's
MEYSHELE for a Litvak, not MOYSHELE. Poland is PEYLN not Poyln.

KH is used for the gutteral sound as in Khaneke (In French the CH is read as SH, and in Spanish it's TCH, so the CH spelling is confusing
internationally.)

Too often, Yiddish translation is based on German spellings and these do not accurately reflect Yiddish and certainly Yiddish dialectical, nuances. There is a crying need for law and order in transliteration and the YIVO
orthography is there for the using. For those of us trying to recnstruct our past, it's a godsend.


sylvia schildt
baltimore, maryland