Date   

Re: Jewish Divorce #ukraine

Yekkey@...
 

In a message dated 9/11/04 22:14:52, philipsmoller@mac.com writes:

<< I found another record that says she was divorced >from a man 2 years
later named Izka Turok due to death of brother. How can this be?>>

Was it a levirate marriage that occurred after she married Aaron David?
Perhaps neither she nor Izka wanted to be married to each other so they had a
proforma divorce.

Dan Nussbaum
New Bedford, Massachusetts

Searching for
NUSSBAUM, KATZENSTEIN-Raboldshausen, Bad Hersfeld and Rhina Germany
TEPLITZKY, BENDERSKY, KASZKIET, KASHKET, GREENBERG-Uman, Ukraine
ROSENTHAL, S(C)HENK(EL)MAN-Zinkov, Ukraine
BILD, KASHLEVSKY, KASHILEVSKY-anywhere


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Re: Jewish Divorce #ukraine

Yekkey@...
 

In a message dated 9/11/04 22:14:52, philipsmoller@mac.com writes:

<< I found another record that says she was divorced >from a man 2 years
later named Izka Turok due to death of brother. How can this be?>>

Was it a levirate marriage that occurred after she married Aaron David?
Perhaps neither she nor Izka wanted to be married to each other so they had a
proforma divorce.

Dan Nussbaum
New Bedford, Massachusetts

Searching for
NUSSBAUM, KATZENSTEIN-Raboldshausen, Bad Hersfeld and Rhina Germany
TEPLITZKY, BENDERSKY, KASZKIET, KASHKET, GREENBERG-Uman, Ukraine
ROSENTHAL, S(C)HENK(EL)MAN-Zinkov, Ukraine
BILD, KASHLEVSKY, KASHILEVSKY-anywhere


tomashpol #ukraine

norman toback <nimms@...>
 

It is my understanding that this town/shtetl is somewhere between Odessa and
the Besarabia/Romania/Moldova area. A recent conversation with a young woman
from Odessa led me to understand that Tomashpol is now a suburb of Odessa.
However, searching the web maps shows Tomashpol much farther north. Any
suggestions? I have also discovered that there is a sugar beet refinery for
sale in Tomashpol. Oddly enough my father's family (Taback/Toback) owned and
ran a sugar beet refinery there until the 1920s. Any information will be
welcome.
Thanks

Norman Toback
nimms@adelphia.net


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine tomashpol #ukraine

norman toback <nimms@...>
 

It is my understanding that this town/shtetl is somewhere between Odessa and
the Besarabia/Romania/Moldova area. A recent conversation with a young woman
from Odessa led me to understand that Tomashpol is now a suburb of Odessa.
However, searching the web maps shows Tomashpol much farther north. Any
suggestions? I have also discovered that there is a sugar beet refinery for
sale in Tomashpol. Oddly enough my father's family (Taback/Toback) owned and
ran a sugar beet refinery there until the 1920s. Any information will be
welcome.
Thanks

Norman Toback
nimms@adelphia.net


Jewish Divorce #ukraine

philip smoller <philipsmoller@...>
 

I found a record of my ggrandmother. It says she was married to a man
named Aaron David Turok. I found another record that says she was
divorced >from a man 2 years later named Izka Turok due to death of
brother. How can this be?

Philip Smoller

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please sign all posts with a location and E-mail address.


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Jewish Divorce #ukraine

philip smoller <philipsmoller@...>
 

I found a record of my ggrandmother. It says she was married to a man
named Aaron David Turok. I found another record that says she was
divorced >from a man 2 years later named Izka Turok due to death of
brother. How can this be?

Philip Smoller

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please sign all posts with a location and E-mail address.


Re: Sense of place, sense of people -- Rabbinical traditions #ukraine

Doug Cohen
 

Remember that Chasidism arose around 1765 in what is now Ukraine; it's
thrust (oversimplifying greatly) was that even ordinary working people can
worship and be accepted by God if they do so with all their heart -- that
one did not have to be a scholar. This radical notion was very popular
among poor working people who didn't have time to devote to study, and was
strongly opposed by the more conservative elements, whose leader was the
Vilna Gaon (>from Vilnius, Lithuania). This led to considerable antipathy
between the Jewish Russishooks and Litvaks.

Doug Cohen
Lexington, MA
DMC@dmcohen.com


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Re: Sense of place, sense of people -- Rabbinical traditions #ukraine

Doug Cohen
 

Remember that Chasidism arose around 1765 in what is now Ukraine; it's
thrust (oversimplifying greatly) was that even ordinary working people can
worship and be accepted by God if they do so with all their heart -- that
one did not have to be a scholar. This radical notion was very popular
among poor working people who didn't have time to devote to study, and was
strongly opposed by the more conservative elements, whose leader was the
Vilna Gaon (>from Vilnius, Lithuania). This led to considerable antipathy
between the Jewish Russishooks and Litvaks.

Doug Cohen
Lexington, MA
DMC@dmcohen.com


Re: Highmaster of the Deutschritter Order #germany

garnstein@...
 

MHMarx@alum.mit.edu queried: An article about early Jewish settlers in my
ancestral town (Schriesheim, Baden) makes reference to the Hochmeister des
Deutschritterordens" (Highmaster of the Deutschritter Order). Can someone
explain this?

Reply: Before Germany was unified in 1871, there was a collection of
fiefdoms, duchies, kingdoms, also imperial cities and, relevant here,
communities ruled by various "Orden" or knightly domains. Head usually was a
Hochmeister. They were not under the rule of the local ruler, instead (in a
day of slow communication and transportation) reported directly to the
emperor of the holy Roman empire (which, as Voltaire mocked, was neither
holy nor Roman nor an empire).

1. Unusual example: Next to or within Buchau am Federsee (Wuerttemberg),
there was the "Stift" an enclave of ladies of noble birth, headed by an
Abbess.

2. Kleinerdlingen (Bavaria) was ruled by the Maltese Knights who offered
Jews the right to settle on payment of fees.

Here are details:
Political events clearly drove Jewish migration. Noerdlingen is a Bavarian
town which today still has its medieval walls. It expelled its Jews, its
fourth Jewish community, before 1507, and banned them beyond a two mile
radius. Joachim zu Wallerstein permitted them to settle in nearby
Wallerstein, Kleinerdlingen, Oberdorf and Flochberg, followed by orders, not
executed, >from the Emperor and the Maltese Order, the local rulers, to ban
them further. Kleinerdlingen in 1783 had a total population of about 100
which included enough Jews to warrant a synagogue combined with a community
center. Wallerstein was the seat of the Landrabbiner, the regional rabbi. As
described by Kudorfer17, the fortunes of the Kleinerdlingen Jews varied.
Among the
migrants were Erlangers in Buchau, their name reportedly being a corruption
of Kleinerdlingen which in fact was known as Erningen, Erdlingen and Erlingen.

These various domains sometimes expelled resident Jews, sometimes sought them
under what we today would call economic development (they could not join
guilds,
typically became traders who extended credit thus evolved into moneylenders.)
These Orders thus ranged >from antisemitic to somewhat philosemitic.

George A in Washington, DC Return address is: garnstein@calalum.org


German SIG #Germany Re: Highmaster of the Deutschritter Order #germany

garnstein@...
 

MHMarx@alum.mit.edu queried: An article about early Jewish settlers in my
ancestral town (Schriesheim, Baden) makes reference to the Hochmeister des
Deutschritterordens" (Highmaster of the Deutschritter Order). Can someone
explain this?

Reply: Before Germany was unified in 1871, there was a collection of
fiefdoms, duchies, kingdoms, also imperial cities and, relevant here,
communities ruled by various "Orden" or knightly domains. Head usually was a
Hochmeister. They were not under the rule of the local ruler, instead (in a
day of slow communication and transportation) reported directly to the
emperor of the holy Roman empire (which, as Voltaire mocked, was neither
holy nor Roman nor an empire).

1. Unusual example: Next to or within Buchau am Federsee (Wuerttemberg),
there was the "Stift" an enclave of ladies of noble birth, headed by an
Abbess.

2. Kleinerdlingen (Bavaria) was ruled by the Maltese Knights who offered
Jews the right to settle on payment of fees.

Here are details:
Political events clearly drove Jewish migration. Noerdlingen is a Bavarian
town which today still has its medieval walls. It expelled its Jews, its
fourth Jewish community, before 1507, and banned them beyond a two mile
radius. Joachim zu Wallerstein permitted them to settle in nearby
Wallerstein, Kleinerdlingen, Oberdorf and Flochberg, followed by orders, not
executed, >from the Emperor and the Maltese Order, the local rulers, to ban
them further. Kleinerdlingen in 1783 had a total population of about 100
which included enough Jews to warrant a synagogue combined with a community
center. Wallerstein was the seat of the Landrabbiner, the regional rabbi. As
described by Kudorfer17, the fortunes of the Kleinerdlingen Jews varied.
Among the
migrants were Erlangers in Buchau, their name reportedly being a corruption
of Kleinerdlingen which in fact was known as Erningen, Erdlingen and Erlingen.

These various domains sometimes expelled resident Jews, sometimes sought them
under what we today would call economic development (they could not join
guilds,
typically became traders who extended credit thus evolved into moneylenders.)
These Orders thus ranged >from antisemitic to somewhat philosemitic.

George A in Washington, DC Return address is: garnstein@calalum.org


Grave tombs #germany

Ko Sturkop <j.sturkop@...>
 

I visited the Jewish graveyard of Witzenhausen. There are many tombs with
clear texts .... for those who can read the Hebrew inscriptions.
Unfortunately, I cannot. The city archivist told me that no translation has
taken place nor that such is foreseen. This brings me to the question: is
there any organization or individual who aims to translate such texts, into
a format which can be read by anyone who cannot read it in Hebrew format ?

Best regards Ko Sturkop j.sturkop@hccnet.nl www.sturkop.nl


German SIG #Germany Grave tombs #germany

Ko Sturkop <j.sturkop@...>
 

I visited the Jewish graveyard of Witzenhausen. There are many tombs with
clear texts .... for those who can read the Hebrew inscriptions.
Unfortunately, I cannot. The city archivist told me that no translation has
taken place nor that such is foreseen. This brings me to the question: is
there any organization or individual who aims to translate such texts, into
a format which can be read by anyone who cannot read it in Hebrew format ?

Best regards Ko Sturkop j.sturkop@hccnet.nl www.sturkop.nl


INFO FILE - Records for former German areas [such as East Prussia] #germany

Lande
 

There seems to be some confusion regarding birth/marriage/death records for
communities no longer in Germany, e.g. East Prussia or Silesia.

Civil records beginning in 1874 for many of these communities were taken before
the end of WWII to Berlin and are currently stored at Standesamt I,
Rueckerstrasse 9, 10119 Berlin.

A list of these records is contained in a reference book, Standesregister und
Personenstandsbuecher der Ostgebiete im Standesamt I in Berlin. This book lists
exactly for which years information is available, town by town.

Requests for copies of records may be sent to Standesamt I, and are governed by
the same limitations which apply throughout Germany, specifically Datenschutz.

Slightly simplified, this means that copies of records may only be obtained for
direct ancestors, not other relatives.

I would be happy to assist researchers without access to this reference work
who have specific questions.

Peter Lande Washington, D.C. <pdlande@starpower.net>


German SIG #Germany INFO FILE - Records for former German areas [such as East Prussia] #germany

Lande
 

There seems to be some confusion regarding birth/marriage/death records for
communities no longer in Germany, e.g. East Prussia or Silesia.

Civil records beginning in 1874 for many of these communities were taken before
the end of WWII to Berlin and are currently stored at Standesamt I,
Rueckerstrasse 9, 10119 Berlin.

A list of these records is contained in a reference book, Standesregister und
Personenstandsbuecher der Ostgebiete im Standesamt I in Berlin. This book lists
exactly for which years information is available, town by town.

Requests for copies of records may be sent to Standesamt I, and are governed by
the same limitations which apply throughout Germany, specifically Datenschutz.

Slightly simplified, this means that copies of records may only be obtained for
direct ancestors, not other relatives.

I would be happy to assist researchers without access to this reference work
who have specific questions.

Peter Lande Washington, D.C. <pdlande@starpower.net>


My German-Jewish ancestor on the ship "John Watson" #usa

Richard Welch <rwelch@...>
 

The original ships' passenger list in the National Archives [Passenger Lists
of Vessels Arriving at Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, 1800-1882.
Micropublication M425, rolls # 1-71. National Archives, Washington, D.C.] of
the "John Watson" >from Liverpool to Philadelphia, arriving November 29,
1816, includes my German-Jewish ancestor, Hyman LAZARUS, aged 40.
Unfortunately, there is little other information and the list answers a few
questions, but creates even more. It does, however, confirm the approximate
year of his birth, 1776, which is confirmed by later records.

We still don't know where Hyman was born.... or how he got to England. Could
he have been a Jewish veteran of Napoleon's army who had no home in either
Germany or post-Napoleonic France?

Hyman settled in Malta, Morgan County, Ohio in 1818 after working as a
peddler in the villages along the Ohio River and its tributaries. He is
referred to several times in the 19th century Morgan County history as
"Lazarus, the Jew" but there are no records in Ohio that give any clues as
to his place of origin other than the 1850 census that says he was born in
"Germany". He spent most of his life working as a merchant and saloon
keeper, but by 1850 he listed his occupation as "tailor". Hyman died in 1851
and his family was assimilated. Most of his descendants became Methodists,
but they never forgot their Jewish heritage.

Richard Welch Farmington, New Mexico <rwelch@zianet.com>


Early American SIG #USA My German-Jewish ancestor on the ship "John Watson" #usa

Richard Welch <rwelch@...>
 

The original ships' passenger list in the National Archives [Passenger Lists
of Vessels Arriving at Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, 1800-1882.
Micropublication M425, rolls # 1-71. National Archives, Washington, D.C.] of
the "John Watson" >from Liverpool to Philadelphia, arriving November 29,
1816, includes my German-Jewish ancestor, Hyman LAZARUS, aged 40.
Unfortunately, there is little other information and the list answers a few
questions, but creates even more. It does, however, confirm the approximate
year of his birth, 1776, which is confirmed by later records.

We still don't know where Hyman was born.... or how he got to England. Could
he have been a Jewish veteran of Napoleon's army who had no home in either
Germany or post-Napoleonic France?

Hyman settled in Malta, Morgan County, Ohio in 1818 after working as a
peddler in the villages along the Ohio River and its tributaries. He is
referred to several times in the 19th century Morgan County history as
"Lazarus, the Jew" but there are no records in Ohio that give any clues as
to his place of origin other than the 1850 census that says he was born in
"Germany". He spent most of his life working as a merchant and saloon
keeper, but by 1850 he listed his occupation as "tailor". Hyman died in 1851
and his family was assimilated. Most of his descendants became Methodists,
but they never forgot their Jewish heritage.

Richard Welch Farmington, New Mexico <rwelch@zianet.com>


MARKWELL, GOLDSMITH, ALEXANDER Connection #usa

Judith Berlowitz <jberlowitz@...>
 

Dear Early Siggers,
I am seeking information on the MARKWELL Family and
any possible connection to my family. My only
connections so far are:
1. The 1880 US Census for the Chicago household of
Joel L. GOLDSMITH and wife Cecilia/Celia (ALEXANDER)
(my ggaunt) shows a "cousin" Nathan M. MARKWELL, b.
Prussia abt. 1843)
2. Joel and Cecilia named one of their children Henry
(Harry) Markwell GOLDSMITH (Chicago,1879-1948).

There are several MARKWELLs (at least one, Moses, born
in Schneidemuehl/Pila, Prussia/Poland) buried in the
Greenwood Cemetery in Milwaukee, not far >from some of
my ALEXANDER family members are buried.

Are there any MARKWELL descendants out there or anyone
who can give me more information? I have many
graveside photos, courtesy of Vivian Levensohn, which
I would be happy to share.

Judith Berlowitz Berkeley, California <jberlowitz@prodigy.net>


Early American SIG #USA MARKWELL, GOLDSMITH, ALEXANDER Connection #usa

Judith Berlowitz <jberlowitz@...>
 

Dear Early Siggers,
I am seeking information on the MARKWELL Family and
any possible connection to my family. My only
connections so far are:
1. The 1880 US Census for the Chicago household of
Joel L. GOLDSMITH and wife Cecilia/Celia (ALEXANDER)
(my ggaunt) shows a "cousin" Nathan M. MARKWELL, b.
Prussia abt. 1843)
2. Joel and Cecilia named one of their children Henry
(Harry) Markwell GOLDSMITH (Chicago,1879-1948).

There are several MARKWELLs (at least one, Moses, born
in Schneidemuehl/Pila, Prussia/Poland) buried in the
Greenwood Cemetery in Milwaukee, not far >from some of
my ALEXANDER family members are buried.

Are there any MARKWELL descendants out there or anyone
who can give me more information? I have many
graveside photos, courtesy of Vivian Levensohn, which
I would be happy to share.

Judith Berlowitz Berkeley, California <jberlowitz@prodigy.net>


Re: Given name Veit #hungary

frishmechlis <frishmechlis@...>
 

As I remember there is in Vienna a church called after St. Veit. Veit is
the German form of Vitus...

Karl Frish
Hod-Hasharon
Israel

----- Original Message -----
From: "Prof. G. L. Esterson" <jerry@vms.huji.ac.il>
To: "H-SIG" <h-sig@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Cc: "Henry Sinai" <hmsinai@netvision.net.il>; "Wolf-Erich Eckstein"
<w.eckstein@chello.at>
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 4:15 PM
Subject: Re:[h-sig] Given name Veit


At 01:00 AM 9/9/2004 -0500, Henry Sinai of Israel wrote:
I am not surprised that Veit MAYER was called Shraga.

In my family, my GGF was called Veit or Feit in census records 1800's.
His name was written as FEISH (Yiddish) in Chevra Kadisha records.

Descecndants named after him were called Phillip/Fulop/Fillip or similar
depending on the country of birth (secular) and in Hebrew their name
was/is Shraga.
Three names that were sometimes confused with one another by Jews and
those
who recorded census and other records, were Veit (a German secular name),
Filip (another German secular name), and Fayvl (a Yiddish name with
numerous variants). This confusion appears also in the data found in
Henry's family.

Faysh was a Yiddish nickname for the Yiddish name Fayvl, and appeared
itself in many guises, in Yiddish, German (as above, Feish), and Hungarian
scripts. In the above family, the Yiddish name Faysh was apparently used
for an ancestor whose name was Veit in German. Either that, or the
ancestor also had the name Veit in addition to the Fayvl (>from which Faysh
descends). There are other possibilities as well.

The German secular names Filip/Philip were accepted secular kinuim for use
with various Hebrew names, one of which was Fayvl and its variants. So,
this could explain the subsequent use for descendants of Veit, of the
secular names Phillip (a German secular name), Fulop (a Hungarian secular
name which is the "equivalent" of the German name Phillip), and Filip
(another version of the German secular name Phillip).

And finally, how does the Hebrew name Shraga enter into this pantheon of
names? Well, it turns out that the Hebrew name Shraga has - you guessed
it! - a set of Yiddish kinuim which are Feyvesh, Feyvl, Fayvesh, and
Fayvl. Thus, a man with the Hebrew name Shraga and the Yiddish name Fayvl
would be called to the Tora in an aliya by the name Shraga Fayvl. So,
that
is the connection between Faysh/Fayvl and all of these other names.

Henry might bear all this in mind when he is searching archival documents
for ancestors.

Professor G. L. Esterson, Ra'anana, Israel


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Re:Given name Veit #hungary

frishmechlis <frishmechlis@...>
 

As I remember there is in Vienna a church called after St. Veit. Veit is
the German form of Vitus...

Karl Frish
Hod-Hasharon
Israel

----- Original Message -----
From: "Prof. G. L. Esterson" <jerry@vms.huji.ac.il>
To: "H-SIG" <h-sig@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Cc: "Henry Sinai" <hmsinai@netvision.net.il>; "Wolf-Erich Eckstein"
<w.eckstein@chello.at>
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 4:15 PM
Subject: Re:[h-sig] Given name Veit


At 01:00 AM 9/9/2004 -0500, Henry Sinai of Israel wrote:
I am not surprised that Veit MAYER was called Shraga.

In my family, my GGF was called Veit or Feit in census records 1800's.
His name was written as FEISH (Yiddish) in Chevra Kadisha records.

Descecndants named after him were called Phillip/Fulop/Fillip or similar
depending on the country of birth (secular) and in Hebrew their name
was/is Shraga.
Three names that were sometimes confused with one another by Jews and
those
who recorded census and other records, were Veit (a German secular name),
Filip (another German secular name), and Fayvl (a Yiddish name with
numerous variants). This confusion appears also in the data found in
Henry's family.

Faysh was a Yiddish nickname for the Yiddish name Fayvl, and appeared
itself in many guises, in Yiddish, German (as above, Feish), and Hungarian
scripts. In the above family, the Yiddish name Faysh was apparently used
for an ancestor whose name was Veit in German. Either that, or the
ancestor also had the name Veit in addition to the Fayvl (>from which Faysh
descends). There are other possibilities as well.

The German secular names Filip/Philip were accepted secular kinuim for use
with various Hebrew names, one of which was Fayvl and its variants. So,
this could explain the subsequent use for descendants of Veit, of the
secular names Phillip (a German secular name), Fulop (a Hungarian secular
name which is the "equivalent" of the German name Phillip), and Filip
(another version of the German secular name Phillip).

And finally, how does the Hebrew name Shraga enter into this pantheon of
names? Well, it turns out that the Hebrew name Shraga has - you guessed
it! - a set of Yiddish kinuim which are Feyvesh, Feyvl, Fayvesh, and
Fayvl. Thus, a man with the Hebrew name Shraga and the Yiddish name Fayvl
would be called to the Tora in an aliya by the name Shraga Fayvl. So,
that
is the connection between Faysh/Fayvl and all of these other names.

Henry might bear all this in mind when he is searching archival documents
for ancestors.

Professor G. L. Esterson, Ra'anana, Israel