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Re: Origins of Surnames #austria-czech

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 9/9/2008 12:12:16 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
_haases@... (mailto:haases@...) writes:
<<I have to admit that I'm not well-read on the subject of "surnames", but it
has always been puzzling to me. Not necessarily the translations or
meanings of the names, but rather:
1. When and where did the process of giving/assigning surnames start?
2. Did the process apply equally to Jews, and non-Jews?
3. Did government officials just assign names arbitrarily?
4. Is it safe to assume that hundreds (thousands?) of completely unrelated
individuals ended up receiving the same surname?>>

These are questions we've all have had on jewishgen. I have been busy, with
a score of others, who have been asking the questions over the past ten years
on jewishgen and at conferences and records, and learning >from each other.
We've all learned and we've all responded repeatedly to these questions >from
newbies.
For the 10th year as an active participant in jewishgen, I've decided to
be less generous, less busy, less informative. I've answered each of the
above questions many, many times in the past ten years, adding content as I
learned. My suggestion is you study books devoted to names, surnames, Jewish and
not, histories of names, lists of names, dictionaries of names, jewishgen
archives, google and wikipedia. In three years you'll know enough to take over
the tasks of those of us who are getting old. Much luck.

Michael Bernet, New York
mbernet@...

www.mem-Ber.net
Re: Origin of House Numbers in Bohemia #austria-czech

Paul King
 

Peter Lowe's information about locating house numbers (Sept 8, 2008) in the
Czech Republic is quite helpful and practical. For an historical account of
the origin of Jewish and non-Jewish house numbering in Bohemia (in German),
enter the following in your favorite search engine. The material is
'somewhere' in the middle of this doctoral dissertation (e.g., p. 149). You
can search according to word entries, but see the Index as well.:

http://othes.univie.ac.at/28/1/tantner_diss.pdf


Anton Tantner has lectured on this topic in Prague and I think a summary of
this lecture in English may be on-line. These house numbers, as a number of
sig members can attest, are still in effect and you can ofen find your
ancestor's house >from as far back as when the numbering system was
inaugurated in the middle of the 18th c.

Paul King
Jerusalem
Israel Stanger #austria-czech

Sara <sararu70@...>
 

Learned something unusual about my great grandfather, Israel STANGER. He
came to this country with his family and then returned to Europe
accompanied by his wife, Leah STANGER. Leah Stanger then returned to the
USA to be with her children, she lived at the home of Joseph ROSENBERG in
New York city. We have no further news of Israel Stanger. They listed
Austria as their home on their Ellis ISland records.

Does anyone have any knowledge of Israel STANGER ?


Sara Rubin
New Kensington, Pa.
Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Re: Origins of Surnames #austria-czech

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 9/9/2008 12:12:16 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
_haases@... (mailto:haases@...) writes:
<<I have to admit that I'm not well-read on the subject of "surnames", but it
has always been puzzling to me. Not necessarily the translations or
meanings of the names, but rather:
1. When and where did the process of giving/assigning surnames start?
2. Did the process apply equally to Jews, and non-Jews?
3. Did government officials just assign names arbitrarily?
4. Is it safe to assume that hundreds (thousands?) of completely unrelated
individuals ended up receiving the same surname?>>

These are questions we've all have had on jewishgen. I have been busy, with
a score of others, who have been asking the questions over the past ten years
on jewishgen and at conferences and records, and learning >from each other.
We've all learned and we've all responded repeatedly to these questions >from
newbies.
For the 10th year as an active participant in jewishgen, I've decided to
be less generous, less busy, less informative. I've answered each of the
above questions many, many times in the past ten years, adding content as I
learned. My suggestion is you study books devoted to names, surnames, Jewish and
not, histories of names, lists of names, dictionaries of names, jewishgen
archives, google and wikipedia. In three years you'll know enough to take over
the tasks of those of us who are getting old. Much luck.

Michael Bernet, New York
mbernet@...

www.mem-Ber.net
Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Re: Origin of House Numbers in Bohemia #austria-czech

Paul King
 

Peter Lowe's information about locating house numbers (Sept 8, 2008) in the
Czech Republic is quite helpful and practical. For an historical account of
the origin of Jewish and non-Jewish house numbering in Bohemia (in German),
enter the following in your favorite search engine. The material is
'somewhere' in the middle of this doctoral dissertation (e.g., p. 149). You
can search according to word entries, but see the Index as well.:

http://othes.univie.ac.at/28/1/tantner_diss.pdf


Anton Tantner has lectured on this topic in Prague and I think a summary of
this lecture in English may be on-line. These house numbers, as a number of
sig members can attest, are still in effect and you can ofen find your
ancestor's house >from as far back as when the numbering system was
inaugurated in the middle of the 18th c.

Paul King
Jerusalem
Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Israel Stanger #austria-czech

Sara <sararu70@...>
 

Learned something unusual about my great grandfather, Israel STANGER. He
came to this country with his family and then returned to Europe
accompanied by his wife, Leah STANGER. Leah Stanger then returned to the
USA to be with her children, she lived at the home of Joseph ROSENBERG in
New York city. We have no further news of Israel Stanger. They listed
Austria as their home on their Ellis ISland records.

Does anyone have any knowledge of Israel STANGER ?


Sara Rubin
New Kensington, Pa.
looking for details about Ephraim Sieff from Manchester #unitedkingdom

Oscar Friedman <oscar.friedman@...>
 

Hello Friends
Once before I was searching for the Ziv Family (Sieff ) in England but with not much success , except meeting and talking with great people like Ann Rabinowitz , Chaim Freedman , Peter Arnold and others

I am trying to find a tombstone of Ephraim Sieff - father of Israel Sieff who came >from Lithuania (Ariogala) about mid of 1890 or so to England and lived in Manchester and as much we know should be buried there near by

There is a traditional story about his father that came >from Kelme , but there is no proof about it

We believe the Father of Ephraim should be >from Ariogala

The Sieff family is probably well known in the UK , but unfortunately do not cooperate about the history of the family .
Any assistance , lead or details about capability to collect more information ,will be very much appreciated

Wish you all great and sweat New Year which is coming very soon

Oscar Friedman - Israel
JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom looking for details about Ephraim Sieff from Manchester #unitedkingdom

Oscar Friedman <oscar.friedman@...>
 

Hello Friends
Once before I was searching for the Ziv Family (Sieff ) in England but with not much success , except meeting and talking with great people like Ann Rabinowitz , Chaim Freedman , Peter Arnold and others

I am trying to find a tombstone of Ephraim Sieff - father of Israel Sieff who came >from Lithuania (Ariogala) about mid of 1890 or so to England and lived in Manchester and as much we know should be buried there near by

There is a traditional story about his father that came >from Kelme , but there is no proof about it

We believe the Father of Ephraim should be >from Ariogala

The Sieff family is probably well known in the UK , but unfortunately do not cooperate about the history of the family .
Any assistance , lead or details about capability to collect more information ,will be very much appreciated

Wish you all great and sweat New Year which is coming very soon

Oscar Friedman - Israel
1897 Russian Empire Census #ukraine

Blake Fleisher <blake@...>
 

I was browsing on the internet for the 1897 Russian Empire Census and
clicked on the eastview.com link. They claim to sell the 1897 Russian
Empire Census on CD-Rom and microfiche. Is this the actual census document
or an index? It was under my impression that you could only get the records
from an archive.
http://www.eastview.com/xq/ASP/sku=RC000049/active_tab=1/qx/
research-collections/product_view.asp

Thank you,

Blake FLEISHER

Researching:
STAVCHANSKY and NUDELMAN- Khoshchevatoye, Ukraine
FLEISHER- Khemelnitski, Ukraine
SCHIFFMAN- Probezhna, Ukraine
Ukraine SIG #Ukraine 1897 Russian Empire Census #ukraine

Blake Fleisher <blake@...>
 

I was browsing on the internet for the 1897 Russian Empire Census and
clicked on the eastview.com link. They claim to sell the 1897 Russian
Empire Census on CD-Rom and microfiche. Is this the actual census document
or an index? It was under my impression that you could only get the records
from an archive.
http://www.eastview.com/xq/ASP/sku=RC000049/active_tab=1/qx/
research-collections/product_view.asp

Thank you,

Blake FLEISHER

Researching:
STAVCHANSKY and NUDELMAN- Khoshchevatoye, Ukraine
FLEISHER- Khemelnitski, Ukraine
SCHIFFMAN- Probezhna, Ukraine
Seeking Paul Auster #galicia

Alan Weiser <alanboy@...>
 

Seeking current email address for Kolomea Research group member,
Paul Auster.

Alan Weiser, Coordinator KRG
alanboy@...
Silver Spring, MD
Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia Seeking Paul Auster #galicia

Alan Weiser <alanboy@...>
 

Seeking current email address for Kolomea Research group member,
Paul Auster.

Alan Weiser, Coordinator KRG
alanboy@...
Silver Spring, MD
GANTOVNIKS in Vidzy/Widze (now Belarus). #belarus

Eric Svirskis
 

Dear Genners,

from time to time I have asked about my maternal ggm Frejda GANTOVNIK (b.
Stayachisock between 1851 & 1861, died 1937) but lived in Vidzy (now
Belarus). She married Leon FLEXER in 1878. It is believed that all
GANTOVNIKS or GONTOVNIKS (which may be more correct, according to Howard
Gontovnik) originate in Stayachisok but I have not been able to tie her in
with anything so far that I have found.

It seems that there was also a Rachel/Rakhel GANTOVNIK also in Vidzy who
was related (connection unknown) but that would have been her married name!
The Pages of Testimony show she was born in 1892, in Widze (sic), & had a
child aged 12 in 1941 (year of her death). I do not know about the child.
This information was submitted by Yisrael GENTON in 1955. I am told that
family members live in Israel and now call themselves GAN. In browsing I
wonder if there are other variations (e.g. GENTON, as above) as I have also
seen the surname GAN TOV.

I am interested in information on my family also how they are related to
each other and fit into the overall GANTOVNIK/GONTOVNIK picture.

Please reply privately.

Eric Svirskis,
Melbourne, Australia.
svire@...

Interested in: FLEXER, GANTOVNIK, GESKIN, GROSSBEIN, MUSZKATBLAT, OKUN,
SRAGOWITZ, SVIRSKI, SVIRSKIS or SWIRSKY, & ZILBERMAN - mainly from
Lithuania: Danilovichiai/Draustine, Dolhinov, Kovno/Kaunas,
Panevesz/Panecevysz, and Widze/Vidzy (now Belarus).
Belarus SIG #Belarus GANTOVNIKS in Vidzy/Widze (now Belarus). #belarus

Eric Svirskis
 

Dear Genners,

from time to time I have asked about my maternal ggm Frejda GANTOVNIK (b.
Stayachisock between 1851 & 1861, died 1937) but lived in Vidzy (now
Belarus). She married Leon FLEXER in 1878. It is believed that all
GANTOVNIKS or GONTOVNIKS (which may be more correct, according to Howard
Gontovnik) originate in Stayachisok but I have not been able to tie her in
with anything so far that I have found.

It seems that there was also a Rachel/Rakhel GANTOVNIK also in Vidzy who
was related (connection unknown) but that would have been her married name!
The Pages of Testimony show she was born in 1892, in Widze (sic), & had a
child aged 12 in 1941 (year of her death). I do not know about the child.
This information was submitted by Yisrael GENTON in 1955. I am told that
family members live in Israel and now call themselves GAN. In browsing I
wonder if there are other variations (e.g. GENTON, as above) as I have also
seen the surname GAN TOV.

I am interested in information on my family also how they are related to
each other and fit into the overall GANTOVNIK/GONTOVNIK picture.

Please reply privately.

Eric Svirskis,
Melbourne, Australia.
svire@...

Interested in: FLEXER, GANTOVNIK, GESKIN, GROSSBEIN, MUSZKATBLAT, OKUN,
SRAGOWITZ, SVIRSKI, SVIRSKIS or SWIRSKY, & ZILBERMAN - mainly from
Lithuania: Danilovichiai/Draustine, Dolhinov, Kovno/Kaunas,
Panevesz/Panecevysz, and Widze/Vidzy (now Belarus).
Noga #unitedkingdom

Sue Levy
 

I would very much like to hear >from anyone who has the surname NOGA (or
variant) in their family tree. My grandfather was born Gershon Noga but
changed his name to George Finley after settling in England around 1900. He
was Polish. I believe the word means 'foot' in Russian and related
languages.

Any help in locating others of this name, or their place of origin, would be
appreciated.

Sue Levy
Perth, Australia
GUTMAN, WEINER, WESTERMAN(all Latvia), NOGA.
Re: Jewish communities in Britain, 18th century #unitedkingdom

Irina Fridman
 

Dear Genners,

Thank you very much for the replies. Your answers do help a lot, however I'm still puzzled:
1. Daniel Maccabeth a Low Country> [cf. Holland/Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg] is a quote >from the cathedral book c.1681, so in any case the person in question had to identify himself bfore he received some money. OK, I probably can assume that he wasnt Jewish.

2. I still do not understand, who was responsible for transportation of the Torah scrolls >from country to country? Any member of the community? Somebody in particular? Will the Torah move >from its original place only in case when the community was dispersed? Were there any other reasons for the scrolls to travel great distances? The scroll in question, as I mentioned previously originated in North Africa, according to the hand-writting of the scribe.

Kind regards,
Irene Berson
UK
JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom Noga #unitedkingdom

Sue Levy
 

I would very much like to hear >from anyone who has the surname NOGA (or
variant) in their family tree. My grandfather was born Gershon Noga but
changed his name to George Finley after settling in England around 1900. He
was Polish. I believe the word means 'foot' in Russian and related
languages.

Any help in locating others of this name, or their place of origin, would be
appreciated.

Sue Levy
Perth, Australia
GUTMAN, WEINER, WESTERMAN(all Latvia), NOGA.
JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom RE: Jewish communities in Britain, 18th century #unitedkingdom

Irina Fridman
 

Dear Genners,

Thank you very much for the replies. Your answers do help a lot, however I'm still puzzled:
1. Daniel Maccabeth a Low Country> [cf. Holland/Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg] is a quote >from the cathedral book c.1681, so in any case the person in question had to identify himself bfore he received some money. OK, I probably can assume that he wasnt Jewish.

2. I still do not understand, who was responsible for transportation of the Torah scrolls >from country to country? Any member of the community? Somebody in particular? Will the Torah move >from its original place only in case when the community was dispersed? Were there any other reasons for the scrolls to travel great distances? The scroll in question, as I mentioned previously originated in North Africa, according to the hand-writting of the scribe.

Kind regards,
Irene Berson
UK
JEITELES/STEINBACH/WELLESCH tombstone in Timisoara - links many Vienna families #austria-czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

When Alex Woodle visited Timisoara/Temesvar this Spring, he took a photograph of a
tombstone with the name WELLESCH on it. Henry Wellisch
sent it to me as there was also a Juli JEITELES {nee STEINBACH} buried
in the grave. He knew many JEITELES were >from Prague [see Prague Conscriptions
site for a bonanza] and that I might be interested.
I stared at it and realised I knew the family and 100s of links.
Juli was married to Marcus JEITELES. The JEITELES name was changed
to JARAY in Vienna. This was a very artistic and inventive family.
Google: Jaray Vienna or Wien and you will find many articles.

What Henry did not know was that Juli was a key member of my extended family tree.
She links JEITELES; JARAY; de JARAY; SCHOENBERG from
Timisoara; [also Randy's different SCHOENBERG family]; BUNZL; HIRSCH;
and BACHRACH families of Vienna plus BING and FUNK families of
Hamburg and Prossnitz. A tree starting with these JEITELES and
branching out would be enormous.

Juli and Marcus are also the gtgt grandparents of Ron de Jaray in Vancouver. I
just phoned him with the good news. Who exactly Schendel JEITELES {nee WELLESCH}
is, I do not know. I think she may be the mother
of Markus, ie Juli's mother-in-law. She died aged 49? in the year 5590 {1829}.
The photograph is not too clear. We will have to send someone
to Timisoara to get another one and look for Marcus JEITELES' grave.
See: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cam37/2843988376/

I have no idea whether these JEITELES were originally >from Prague
or a link to the Moravian JEITELES, some of whom may have moved to
Banat County. I would guess the latter.

See: http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?letter=J&artid=212
for a famous Moravian JEITELES.

Genealogically speaking, life is definitely full of surprises! Thank you Alex for
taking the picture and Henry for passing it on.

Celia Male - London, U.K.
Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech JEITELES/STEINBACH/WELLESCH tombstone in Timisoara - links many Vienna families #austria-czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

When Alex Woodle visited Timisoara/Temesvar this Spring, he took a photograph of a
tombstone with the name WELLESCH on it. Henry Wellisch
sent it to me as there was also a Juli JEITELES {nee STEINBACH} buried
in the grave. He knew many JEITELES were >from Prague [see Prague Conscriptions
site for a bonanza] and that I might be interested.
I stared at it and realised I knew the family and 100s of links.
Juli was married to Marcus JEITELES. The JEITELES name was changed
to JARAY in Vienna. This was a very artistic and inventive family.
Google: Jaray Vienna or Wien and you will find many articles.

What Henry did not know was that Juli was a key member of my extended family tree.
She links JEITELES; JARAY; de JARAY; SCHOENBERG from
Timisoara; [also Randy's different SCHOENBERG family]; BUNZL; HIRSCH;
and BACHRACH families of Vienna plus BING and FUNK families of
Hamburg and Prossnitz. A tree starting with these JEITELES and
branching out would be enormous.

Juli and Marcus are also the gtgt grandparents of Ron de Jaray in Vancouver. I
just phoned him with the good news. Who exactly Schendel JEITELES {nee WELLESCH}
is, I do not know. I think she may be the mother
of Markus, ie Juli's mother-in-law. She died aged 49? in the year 5590 {1829}.
The photograph is not too clear. We will have to send someone
to Timisoara to get another one and look for Marcus JEITELES' grave.
See: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cam37/2843988376/

I have no idea whether these JEITELES were originally >from Prague
or a link to the Moravian JEITELES, some of whom may have moved to
Banat County. I would guess the latter.

See: http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?letter=J&artid=212
for a famous Moravian JEITELES.

Genealogically speaking, life is definitely full of surprises! Thank you Alex for
taking the picture and Henry for passing it on.

Celia Male - London, U.K.
265821 - 265840 of 669694