Date   

MESSIAS from Holland - 1860s immigrants living in Wellclose Sq , London. #unitedkingdom

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

If you were looking for traces of this Sephardic family in the early England
censuses they would have been extremely difficult to find. I was not looking
for them, but out of interest, searching for the frequency of the first name
"Jechiel" - that of one of my my gtgtgt grandfathers Jechiel BIACH of Moravia
and Pressburg [born probably 1775].

On Ancestry.com there is only one *Jechiel* in England in the whole of the
census period 1851-1901 and he was associated with a large family >from Holland.
Ditto on Findmypast. The family name was terribly garbled on both on-line
census sites and obviously wrong. I have sent in corrections and hopefully that
will soon be remedied. The old-fashioned long *s* and poor writing fooled the
transcribers to give us two nonsense family names: MERFIARS and MERFIASS

Also I will let you into a secret I have known for a long time - Holland has
been wrongly designated as a "parish or place" not a country, county or island,
presumably this is because there is a Holland in Lincolnshire, England.

I hope this hint will help some of you you find ancestors that have eluded you
in the past. In later censuses, Netherlands is used and Amsterdam and other
places appear too - but it is worthwhile testing each geographic place name in
the various location fields to see that they have been correctly designated.
It is not only names that are garbled in censuses, but the transcribers were
often very weak on geography too, linked to ethnicity and immigration!

The close neighbours of this MESSIAS family of tailors and cigar makers are
also most fascinating - they are also all >from Holland. The MIRANDA family is
headed by Solomon, a diamond cutter, the HARTOG family and finally the BRANDON
family who must have spent some time in New Orleans before settling in London.
I believe Samuel is in the 1860 US census, but as I have no access, I cannot
confirm this. Also skip to previous page and you will see the entry for the
Jewish "Hand-in-Hand" asylum run by two Dutch Jews - Godfrey and Eve MYERS in
51 Wellclose Square, St Georges in the East. There are only 14 inmates. One of
the inmates, Mark RAPCH? was born in Sheerness in 1808.

You can read extracts about these almshouses here: http://tinyurl.com/3dpx77
and
http://www.jewish-history.com/Occident/volume7/aug1849/news.html
[August 1849 Jewish Chronicle].

Celia Male [U.K.]


JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom MESSIAS from Holland - 1860s immigrants living in Wellclose Sq , London. #unitedkingdom

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

If you were looking for traces of this Sephardic family in the early England
censuses they would have been extremely difficult to find. I was not looking
for them, but out of interest, searching for the frequency of the first name
"Jechiel" - that of one of my my gtgtgt grandfathers Jechiel BIACH of Moravia
and Pressburg [born probably 1775].

On Ancestry.com there is only one *Jechiel* in England in the whole of the
census period 1851-1901 and he was associated with a large family >from Holland.
Ditto on Findmypast. The family name was terribly garbled on both on-line
census sites and obviously wrong. I have sent in corrections and hopefully that
will soon be remedied. The old-fashioned long *s* and poor writing fooled the
transcribers to give us two nonsense family names: MERFIARS and MERFIASS

Also I will let you into a secret I have known for a long time - Holland has
been wrongly designated as a "parish or place" not a country, county or island,
presumably this is because there is a Holland in Lincolnshire, England.

I hope this hint will help some of you you find ancestors that have eluded you
in the past. In later censuses, Netherlands is used and Amsterdam and other
places appear too - but it is worthwhile testing each geographic place name in
the various location fields to see that they have been correctly designated.
It is not only names that are garbled in censuses, but the transcribers were
often very weak on geography too, linked to ethnicity and immigration!

The close neighbours of this MESSIAS family of tailors and cigar makers are
also most fascinating - they are also all >from Holland. The MIRANDA family is
headed by Solomon, a diamond cutter, the HARTOG family and finally the BRANDON
family who must have spent some time in New Orleans before settling in London.
I believe Samuel is in the 1860 US census, but as I have no access, I cannot
confirm this. Also skip to previous page and you will see the entry for the
Jewish "Hand-in-Hand" asylum run by two Dutch Jews - Godfrey and Eve MYERS in
51 Wellclose Square, St Georges in the East. There are only 14 inmates. One of
the inmates, Mark RAPCH? was born in Sheerness in 1808.

You can read extracts about these almshouses here: http://tinyurl.com/3dpx77
and
http://www.jewish-history.com/Occident/volume7/aug1849/news.html
[August 1849 Jewish Chronicle].

Celia Male [U.K.]


Re: surname on marriage certificate - Toronto, Ca #general

Peter Zavon <pzavon@...>
 

"Eliana Aizim" <aizim@uol.com.br> wrote
I have three questions:
First: as Brana´s surname in the certificate is White, and not
Watnick, does this necessarily mean that Brana did immigrate?

No.

Second: could Brana´s surname White be given in the marriage
certificate even if she remained in Ukraine with surname Watnick?

Yes. At least in the US, and I presume also in Canada, some people
applied their American family names to their relatives in Europe
when completeing documents to avoid confusion, to avoid the need to
give a name that was spelled strangely by the standards of the America
or merely to avoid in inconvenience of having to explain that a
name change had occured. After all, no one checked with Europe to
confirm that sort of information.

Peter Zavon
Penfield, NY

PZAVON@Rochester.rr.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: surname on marriage certificate - Toronto, Ca #general

Peter Zavon <pzavon@...>
 

"Eliana Aizim" <aizim@uol.com.br> wrote
I have three questions:
First: as Brana´s surname in the certificate is White, and not
Watnick, does this necessarily mean that Brana did immigrate?

No.

Second: could Brana´s surname White be given in the marriage
certificate even if she remained in Ukraine with surname Watnick?

Yes. At least in the US, and I presume also in Canada, some people
applied their American family names to their relatives in Europe
when completeing documents to avoid confusion, to avoid the need to
give a name that was spelled strangely by the standards of the America
or merely to avoid in inconvenience of having to explain that a
name change had occured. After all, no one checked with Europe to
confirm that sort of information.

Peter Zavon
Penfield, NY

PZAVON@Rochester.rr.com


Kurt and Erma SCHLESINGER Son Henry #general

s_wiener@...
 

Melody, and all,

Renee's email got me to thinking about ACRIS -
the NYC on-line city register for property
transactions. I used the search feature for both
Kurt and Henry Schlesinger. Some of the records
have scanned images [a boon], some not.

DOCUMENT ID: FT_1450008644845
Issued upon the death of Kurt SCHLESINGER, June
11, 1981.

United States
Certificate Discharging Property Subject to
Estate Tax Lien [Form 792]

Re: Estate of Kurt Schlesinger

To Stanley Zucker, Esq.
401 Broadway
New York, NY 10013

The second page has great detail about this
particular asset and states at the end of the
second paragraph "Being the same premises which
were conveyed to the 59th Street Building
Corporation by two deeds one by the Gerry
Estates, Inc. dated January 14, 1929, recorded in
New York County Register's Office January 16,
1929 in Liber. 3697 of Conveyances, page 224, and
by the Doncourt Reality Company dated January 6,
1926 and recorded in said Register's office
February 10, 1926 in Liber. 3522 of Conveyances,
page 424.

This should give you some real estate
corporations to look into as well as the location
in the [Library of] property conveyances for the
City of New York.

I haven't more time to investigate the other
properties, although it appears that one
"Goldome" is listed under both Kurt and Henry for
different reasons at different times.

<http://a836-acris.nyc.gov/Scripts/DocSearch.dll/PName>
takes you to the search menu.

Good luck,
Shellie Wiener
San Francisco, CA


I received a wonderful idea to my posting
yesterday about locating Kurt and Erma
SCHLESINGER's son, Henry. I know that Kurt owned
several properties in New York City and that one
of the partners was an attorney. It was
suggested that they probably incorporated.

snip....


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Kurt and Erma SCHLESINGER Son Henry #general

s_wiener@...
 

Melody, and all,

Renee's email got me to thinking about ACRIS -
the NYC on-line city register for property
transactions. I used the search feature for both
Kurt and Henry Schlesinger. Some of the records
have scanned images [a boon], some not.

DOCUMENT ID: FT_1450008644845
Issued upon the death of Kurt SCHLESINGER, June
11, 1981.

United States
Certificate Discharging Property Subject to
Estate Tax Lien [Form 792]

Re: Estate of Kurt Schlesinger

To Stanley Zucker, Esq.
401 Broadway
New York, NY 10013

The second page has great detail about this
particular asset and states at the end of the
second paragraph "Being the same premises which
were conveyed to the 59th Street Building
Corporation by two deeds one by the Gerry
Estates, Inc. dated January 14, 1929, recorded in
New York County Register's Office January 16,
1929 in Liber. 3697 of Conveyances, page 224, and
by the Doncourt Reality Company dated January 6,
1926 and recorded in said Register's office
February 10, 1926 in Liber. 3522 of Conveyances,
page 424.

This should give you some real estate
corporations to look into as well as the location
in the [Library of] property conveyances for the
City of New York.

I haven't more time to investigate the other
properties, although it appears that one
"Goldome" is listed under both Kurt and Henry for
different reasons at different times.

<http://a836-acris.nyc.gov/Scripts/DocSearch.dll/PName>
takes you to the search menu.

Good luck,
Shellie Wiener
San Francisco, CA


I received a wonderful idea to my posting
yesterday about locating Kurt and Erma
SCHLESINGER's son, Henry. I know that Kurt owned
several properties in New York City and that one
of the partners was an attorney. It was
suggested that they probably incorporated.

snip....


Re: musician Leopold GODOWSKY #lithuania

Eilat Gordin Levitan
 

Marion H. Bernstein asked if Shoshli (town of birth for Leopold
GODOWSKY) was same as Zasliai

from his online biography:
Leopold Godowsky (born on 13 February, 1870) to Anna and Dr. Matthew
Godowsky, in Sozly, a little town not far >from Vilna ... I think it is
37 miles NNW of Vilnius , known as Shesholi/ Sesuoliai/ Sheshol /
Sheshvil/ Szeszole/ Soshly

When Leoplod was less then two years old, the father passed away and
Leopold and his mother moved 9 miles away to Shirvinty (Sirvintos,
Lithuania). In all his records Leopold put his birth place as
"Vilna" Russia pre 1920 / Poland after 1920

Leopold died in 1938.

There are many records to be found online (since Leopold traveled around
the world to give concerts), including a few passport applications.
Leoplds' son Leopold Saxe Godowsky, Jr. (May 27, 1900 - February 18,
1983, his mothers' maiden name was Saxe) married Frances Gershwin
(December 26, 1906, Manhattan, New York - January 18, 1999) the sister
of Goerge and Ira Gershwin. Their children: Alexis Gershwin, Leopold
Godowsky III, Georgia Keidan and Nadia Natali.

Thanks,
Eilat Gordin Levitan

On Thu, Mar 6, 2008, Marion & Henry Bernstein <hlb@texas.net> wrote:
I am trying to prove a connection between my husband's GODOFSKY
family, primarily >from Merkine, and the famous
composer/pianist/conductor Leopold GODOWSKY.


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania Re: musician Leopold GODOWSKY #lithuania

Eilat Gordin Levitan
 

Marion H. Bernstein asked if Shoshli (town of birth for Leopold
GODOWSKY) was same as Zasliai

from his online biography:
Leopold Godowsky (born on 13 February, 1870) to Anna and Dr. Matthew
Godowsky, in Sozly, a little town not far >from Vilna ... I think it is
37 miles NNW of Vilnius , known as Shesholi/ Sesuoliai/ Sheshol /
Sheshvil/ Szeszole/ Soshly

When Leoplod was less then two years old, the father passed away and
Leopold and his mother moved 9 miles away to Shirvinty (Sirvintos,
Lithuania). In all his records Leopold put his birth place as
"Vilna" Russia pre 1920 / Poland after 1920

Leopold died in 1938.

There are many records to be found online (since Leopold traveled around
the world to give concerts), including a few passport applications.
Leoplds' son Leopold Saxe Godowsky, Jr. (May 27, 1900 - February 18,
1983, his mothers' maiden name was Saxe) married Frances Gershwin
(December 26, 1906, Manhattan, New York - January 18, 1999) the sister
of Goerge and Ira Gershwin. Their children: Alexis Gershwin, Leopold
Godowsky III, Georgia Keidan and Nadia Natali.

Thanks,
Eilat Gordin Levitan

On Thu, Mar 6, 2008, Marion & Henry Bernstein <hlb@texas.net> wrote:
I am trying to prove a connection between my husband's GODOFSKY
family, primarily >from Merkine, and the famous
composer/pianist/conductor Leopold GODOWSKY.


Ha-aretz genealogy service #lithuania

Eitan Levy <moranl@...>
 

The article 'Haaretz.com launches innovative Jewish genealogy
service' in today's online version of the English edition of the
Israel Haaretz newspaper may be of interest to Litvaksiggers.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/961288.html

Eitan Levy


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania Ha-aretz genealogy service #lithuania

Eitan Levy <moranl@...>
 

The article 'Haaretz.com launches innovative Jewish genealogy
service' in today's online version of the English edition of the
Israel Haaretz newspaper may be of interest to Litvaksiggers.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/961288.html

Eitan Levy


Haaretz.com launches innovative Jewish genealogy service #poland

ellen moshenberg
 

Haaretz.com launches innovative Jewish genealogy service

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/961288.html

Ellen Moshenberg


JRI Poland #Poland Haaretz.com launches innovative Jewish genealogy service #poland

ellen moshenberg
 

Haaretz.com launches innovative Jewish genealogy service

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/961288.html

Ellen Moshenberg


Re: last Name: SACHER #ukraine

Avi K. <u.sisraeli@...>
 

Dear Mr. Cohen; Genenrs, ]

As a linguist who's into multiple languages I can't help but write this:

Sacher sounds so closely-related to Zacher (the Romanian word for :
Sugar). Also, in German, the word: Zucker (pronounced: Tsuker) means same.
It would also make sense on a geographical level (with Russia borering
Romania & occupying part of its land-which changes hands back & forth-i.e:
Bessarabia or better known as modern-day Moldavia). Germany has also ruled
portions of Romania & has had a significant cultural history & influence
over the Russian life, as well as, some of its citizens living in Russia!
So, this name would be like the last name: Sugarman (Zuckerman) without the
man...!

Bottom line: it sounds like a Romanized German name "transferred"
(migrating) to Russia (or, passively "getting there" without doing much of
anything-just by virtue of changing/redrafting or rezoning of borders, after
the world wars).

Personally, I do not think that this last name is an abbreviation of
anything. The only name that comes to mind (& do not know if it is
Jewsih)-which may sound a longer version of Sacher is: Sacharov/Sacharoff.

Avishalom (Avi) Klammer
from Bat-Yam, Israel to Oakland, CA, U.S.A.
With Klammer roots in Iasi, Romania, Austria/Austo-Hungary (?!?)
& Levitt roots in Moldova/Bessarabia & Ukraine
(Moghilov/Moghilev Podolsk/ Attaki/Ottaki & Soroki/Soroka)


Dymer near Ukraine; Dematoff #ukraine

shirley@...
 

Dear Fellow researchers,
I have recently learned that my grandmother's family came to Chicago
from Dymer [Dimer, Demir]. This town is not far >from Kiev, near the
cross of the rivers Irpin and Dneiper.

The family name is Dematoff [Dematov, etc] I am interested to contact
others who have information about this area, or have come across this
unusual Jewish surname.

Dematoff women married MANDEL, KANTROWITZ/KANTER.

thanks in advance,
Shirley

seeking: DEMATOFF, KANTROWITZ Chicago


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Re: last Name: SACHER #ukraine

Avi K. <u.sisraeli@...>
 

Dear Mr. Cohen; Genenrs, ]

As a linguist who's into multiple languages I can't help but write this:

Sacher sounds so closely-related to Zacher (the Romanian word for :
Sugar). Also, in German, the word: Zucker (pronounced: Tsuker) means same.
It would also make sense on a geographical level (with Russia borering
Romania & occupying part of its land-which changes hands back & forth-i.e:
Bessarabia or better known as modern-day Moldavia). Germany has also ruled
portions of Romania & has had a significant cultural history & influence
over the Russian life, as well as, some of its citizens living in Russia!
So, this name would be like the last name: Sugarman (Zuckerman) without the
man...!

Bottom line: it sounds like a Romanized German name "transferred"
(migrating) to Russia (or, passively "getting there" without doing much of
anything-just by virtue of changing/redrafting or rezoning of borders, after
the world wars).

Personally, I do not think that this last name is an abbreviation of
anything. The only name that comes to mind (& do not know if it is
Jewsih)-which may sound a longer version of Sacher is: Sacharov/Sacharoff.

Avishalom (Avi) Klammer
from Bat-Yam, Israel to Oakland, CA, U.S.A.
With Klammer roots in Iasi, Romania, Austria/Austo-Hungary (?!?)
& Levitt roots in Moldova/Bessarabia & Ukraine
(Moghilov/Moghilev Podolsk/ Attaki/Ottaki & Soroki/Soroka)


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Dymer near Ukraine; Dematoff #ukraine

shirley@...
 

Dear Fellow researchers,
I have recently learned that my grandmother's family came to Chicago
from Dymer [Dimer, Demir]. This town is not far >from Kiev, near the
cross of the rivers Irpin and Dneiper.

The family name is Dematoff [Dematov, etc] I am interested to contact
others who have information about this area, or have come across this
unusual Jewish surname.

Dematoff women married MANDEL, KANTROWITZ/KANTER.

thanks in advance,
Shirley

seeking: DEMATOFF, KANTROWITZ Chicago


surname on marriage certificate - Toronto, Ca #ukraine

Eliana Aizim
 

Dear Genners,
I received >from the Office of the Registrar General in Ontario,
Canada, the marriage certificate of cousin Golda. She was born
in the Ukraine and immigrated to Toronto, Canada. My mother
always told me that Golda immigrated together with her
grandmother (my great-grandmother), what made me think that
Golda´s parents remained in Ukraine.

In the marriage certificate, Golda´s father is Aaron GUNTER and
mother is Brana WHITE. I know that White is the surname my
family adopted in Canada, for it was WATNICK in Ukraine. I
expected to find Brana´s surname as Watnick, as I thought that
she had remained in Ukraine. What a surprise! Since I received
this marriage certificate, I started to search for Golda´s parents in
Canada, with no success. Searched in JewishGen and A.ca.

I have three questions:
First: as Brana´s surname in the certificate is White, and not
Watnick, does this necessarily mean that Brana did immigrate?
Second: could Brana´s surname White be given in the marriage
certificate even if she remained in Ukraine with surname Watnick?
Third: have any of you ever heard of the Gunter family in Toronto,
or know of any of their descendents? Also the White´s?

Thank you for any help you may give. Please reply to:
aizim@uol.com.br

Eliana Aizim
from Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
visit my Gurevich photo album:
http:// www. geocities DOT com/elianaaizim/photo2.html

Searching:
AISEN, AIZEN, AISIN: Ukraine: Lugansk / Argentina; Brazil
GUREVICH: Ukraine: Yuzovka today Donetsk / Brazil.
WATNICK, WHITE : Ukraine: Peschanka / Canada: Toronto
AVERBUCH: Ukraine: Zhabokrich / Brazil: Colonia Quatro Irmaos.


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine surname on marriage certificate - Toronto, Ca #ukraine

Eliana Aizim
 

Dear Genners,
I received >from the Office of the Registrar General in Ontario,
Canada, the marriage certificate of cousin Golda. She was born
in the Ukraine and immigrated to Toronto, Canada. My mother
always told me that Golda immigrated together with her
grandmother (my great-grandmother), what made me think that
Golda´s parents remained in Ukraine.

In the marriage certificate, Golda´s father is Aaron GUNTER and
mother is Brana WHITE. I know that White is the surname my
family adopted in Canada, for it was WATNICK in Ukraine. I
expected to find Brana´s surname as Watnick, as I thought that
she had remained in Ukraine. What a surprise! Since I received
this marriage certificate, I started to search for Golda´s parents in
Canada, with no success. Searched in JewishGen and A.ca.

I have three questions:
First: as Brana´s surname in the certificate is White, and not
Watnick, does this necessarily mean that Brana did immigrate?
Second: could Brana´s surname White be given in the marriage
certificate even if she remained in Ukraine with surname Watnick?
Third: have any of you ever heard of the Gunter family in Toronto,
or know of any of their descendents? Also the White´s?

Thank you for any help you may give. Please reply to:
aizim@uol.com.br

Eliana Aizim
from Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
visit my Gurevich photo album:
http:// www. geocities DOT com/elianaaizim/photo2.html

Searching:
AISEN, AIZEN, AISIN: Ukraine: Lugansk / Argentina; Brazil
GUREVICH: Ukraine: Yuzovka today Donetsk / Brazil.
WATNICK, WHITE : Ukraine: Peschanka / Canada: Toronto
AVERBUCH: Ukraine: Zhabokrich / Brazil: Colonia Quatro Irmaos.


Looking for JULIY (JULIUS?) DRIBINOWITSCH #latvia

Robert Alexander René Dupuis <R.Dupuis@...>
 

I'm looking for:

Juliy DRIBINOWITSCH (b. ca. 1870 [in Riga/Latvia?], d. unknown).
He was married since 1898 with Auguste (Gute) LISSNER-HIRSCHFELD
(b. 1873 in Riga/Latvia, d. unknown, daughter of the technical
director Nikolai /Elchone ARONOWITSCH LISSNER, named HIRSCHFELD
and Charlotte /Slatte/ Sara ISAAKOVNA, nee KEILMANN).

If anybody has documents/photos, etc. about my relative Juliy
DRIBINOWITZ and his wife, please contact me.


--
Robert Dupuis, Berlin/Germany

Searching for KEILMANN, ISAKOWITZ, LISSNER-HIRSCHFELD, POROGOWD,
MENDELSOHN, COHN, KARPEL, HOLLENDER, ZINNEMANN, PENN (all >from Latvia),
KANTOROWITZ (>from Slonim/Belorus and Vilnius/Lithuania),
JUNGIERMANN, SZTATLER (>from Olkusz/Poland), RAWITZ (>from Georgenburg
near Vilnius/Lithuania); HIRSCH (>from Stallupoenen, Memel, Koenigsberg/
Germany), Josephy (>from Schwaan, Rosdtock/Germany)


Latvia SIG #Latvia Looking for JULIY (JULIUS?) DRIBINOWITSCH #latvia

Robert Alexander René Dupuis <R.Dupuis@...>
 

I'm looking for:

Juliy DRIBINOWITSCH (b. ca. 1870 [in Riga/Latvia?], d. unknown).
He was married since 1898 with Auguste (Gute) LISSNER-HIRSCHFELD
(b. 1873 in Riga/Latvia, d. unknown, daughter of the technical
director Nikolai /Elchone ARONOWITSCH LISSNER, named HIRSCHFELD
and Charlotte /Slatte/ Sara ISAAKOVNA, nee KEILMANN).

If anybody has documents/photos, etc. about my relative Juliy
DRIBINOWITZ and his wife, please contact me.


--
Robert Dupuis, Berlin/Germany

Searching for KEILMANN, ISAKOWITZ, LISSNER-HIRSCHFELD, POROGOWD,
MENDELSOHN, COHN, KARPEL, HOLLENDER, ZINNEMANN, PENN (all >from Latvia),
KANTOROWITZ (>from Slonim/Belorus and Vilnius/Lithuania),
JUNGIERMANN, SZTATLER (>from Olkusz/Poland), RAWITZ (>from Georgenburg
near Vilnius/Lithuania); HIRSCH (>from Stallupoenen, Memel, Koenigsberg/
Germany), Josephy (>from Schwaan, Rosdtock/Germany)