Date   
Locating a current address of a Holocaust victim fiance #hungary

Omri Arnon <omri@...>
 

Dear Group,

In my father's photo album there is a postcard with a picture of a
beautiful young woman, which she sent to my father when he was a POW in
Germany. For years I wondered who she was until today, when for the
first time I looked at names of various relatives in the Yad Vashem
site. In the site I found a Page of Testimony submitted on 02/09/1999 by
the fiance of my father's cousin's daughter. On the testimony page he
added her picture which is the same picture I have in my father's album!

The name and address of her fiance is: Robert Ferenc - Budapest 1023
Frankel Leo 53.IV.2
I tried searching for his phone number in the Matav site but could not
find him. Can anyone help me find out if he's alive and what his current
address/phone number is?

Thank you,

Omri Arnon
Israel

Moderator: Please contact Omri off-list if you can help.

Fany #hungary

Dubois family <family@...>
 

My great grandmother's first name is recorded as Fanni. She was born Fanni
Ucks, in about 1838, in Staedtl-Hamschau, Prussian-Silesia. She then came
to live in Frauenkirchen. She married Hermann Pollitzer,( who was born in
Frauenkirchen ), in Vienna in 1872. I have a copy of the birth certificate
of their first child, Leopold, born in 1873, where her name is written
Fanni.

Dominique Dubois
London UK

POLLITZER, Frauenkirchen, Vienna
SINGER, Althart, Vienna
STEINER, Westerfeld, Krems, Vienna
WAHRINGER, Vienna

Hungary SIG #Hungary Locating a current address of a Holocaust victim fiance #hungary

Omri Arnon <omri@...>
 

Dear Group,

In my father's photo album there is a postcard with a picture of a
beautiful young woman, which she sent to my father when he was a POW in
Germany. For years I wondered who she was until today, when for the
first time I looked at names of various relatives in the Yad Vashem
site. In the site I found a Page of Testimony submitted on 02/09/1999 by
the fiance of my father's cousin's daughter. On the testimony page he
added her picture which is the same picture I have in my father's album!

The name and address of her fiance is: Robert Ferenc - Budapest 1023
Frankel Leo 53.IV.2
I tried searching for his phone number in the Matav site but could not
find him. Can anyone help me find out if he's alive and what his current
address/phone number is?

Thank you,

Omri Arnon
Israel

Moderator: Please contact Omri off-list if you can help.

Hungary SIG #Hungary Fany #hungary

Dubois family <family@...>
 

My great grandmother's first name is recorded as Fanni. She was born Fanni
Ucks, in about 1838, in Staedtl-Hamschau, Prussian-Silesia. She then came
to live in Frauenkirchen. She married Hermann Pollitzer,( who was born in
Frauenkirchen ), in Vienna in 1872. I have a copy of the birth certificate
of their first child, Leopold, born in 1873, where her name is written
Fanni.

Dominique Dubois
London UK

POLLITZER, Frauenkirchen, Vienna
SINGER, Althart, Vienna
STEINER, Westerfeld, Krems, Vienna
WAHRINGER, Vienna

The name "Fani" #hungary

levinson <levinson@...>
 

My gggrandmother named Schiffer Fani. On the tombstone of her siblings she
named Fradel.

from the other hand my ggmother Kohn Fani named Francesca and Frida.
Esther levinson

Beer Sheva

Researching: Hochfelder, Neumann, Baum, Weiler and mandel

Hungary SIG #Hungary The name "Fani" #hungary

levinson <levinson@...>
 

My gggrandmother named Schiffer Fani. On the tombstone of her siblings she
named Fradel.

from the other hand my ggmother Kohn Fani named Francesca and Frida.
Esther levinson

Beer Sheva

Researching: Hochfelder, Neumann, Baum, Weiler and mandel

Re: Different and similar first names #hungary

Moshe & Esther Davis <davis@...>
 

This is a common custom in various Sefardic countries. For
instance, I have Chalabi (i.e., Syrian Jewish) neighbors whose
custom is that the oldest male and female children are named
afterthe husband's (living) parents, and the second oldest male and
femalechildren are named after the wife's (living) parents.
i think you misread the question. it was about naming children for
their living parents, not their grandparents. this is quite a
common christian practice to name a child after his father ('john
smith, jr.") but almost never seen in jewish families (except a few
that i noticed in old jewish families in the american south - i even
saw a "3rd" in a jewish family!).
You are right, I misread the question. Sorry about that. My
Chalabi (Syrian) neighbors name after living grandparents, not living
parents.

I do know of one relative (originally >from Hungarian Marmaros)
whose Cleveland grave marker and death certificate both indicate
that he had the same name as his own father (Jacob Leba son of
Jacob Leba in the death certificate, and Yaakov Aryeh ben Yaakov
Aryeh on the grave marker). Without any other sources available, I
am assuming that his father died before he was born.

sephardic families name children for the (god-willing, still living)
grandparents, but never after the child's living parents.

....... tom klein, toronto

ps. i thought the custom was to name the first girl after the
maternal, not paternal, grandmother.
For these Chalabi (Syrian) neighbors of mine, the custom is indeed
that the first girl is named after the *paternal* grandmother. NWe
We also have Turkish Jewish relatives whose custom was to name
both the first boy and girl after the *paternal* grandparents.

Moshe Davis
Jerusalem


Moshe Davis <davis@...> Jerusalem
DAVIS/DAVIDOVICS >from Szeleslonka(Leh),Maramaros,Austro-Hungary; OH;CA.
HAYFER/CHAIMOVICS >from Kovesliget(Drahiv),Maramaros,Austro-Hungary;OH;NJ;CA.
WINARD/WINARSKY and METKOP >from Kiev;Argentina;NY;CA.
BRACKER/BRECHER >from Bucharest/Iasi,Romania;NY;CA;AZ.
ABRAMSON >from Zvil (Novograd-Volinsky),Ukraine;Cuba;MI;MA;NH.
YAHIA/YICHYA >from Istanbul;Cuba;MI;CA.

Re: Fany #hungary

JGyori@...
 

Dear Stephen,
I'm afraid I can't say if Francesca was a typical name, but I have a great
great great grandmother >from about 1820 whose name was Babette!! She was born
in Hungary.
So you just never know!

Judi Gyori Missel
Mesa, Arizona

Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Different and similar first names #hungary

Moshe & Esther Davis <davis@...>
 

This is a common custom in various Sefardic countries. For
instance, I have Chalabi (i.e., Syrian Jewish) neighbors whose
custom is that the oldest male and female children are named
afterthe husband's (living) parents, and the second oldest male and
femalechildren are named after the wife's (living) parents.
i think you misread the question. it was about naming children for
their living parents, not their grandparents. this is quite a
common christian practice to name a child after his father ('john
smith, jr.") but almost never seen in jewish families (except a few
that i noticed in old jewish families in the american south - i even
saw a "3rd" in a jewish family!).
You are right, I misread the question. Sorry about that. My
Chalabi (Syrian) neighbors name after living grandparents, not living
parents.

I do know of one relative (originally >from Hungarian Marmaros)
whose Cleveland grave marker and death certificate both indicate
that he had the same name as his own father (Jacob Leba son of
Jacob Leba in the death certificate, and Yaakov Aryeh ben Yaakov
Aryeh on the grave marker). Without any other sources available, I
am assuming that his father died before he was born.

sephardic families name children for the (god-willing, still living)
grandparents, but never after the child's living parents.

....... tom klein, toronto

ps. i thought the custom was to name the first girl after the
maternal, not paternal, grandmother.
For these Chalabi (Syrian) neighbors of mine, the custom is indeed
that the first girl is named after the *paternal* grandmother. NWe
We also have Turkish Jewish relatives whose custom was to name
both the first boy and girl after the *paternal* grandparents.

Moshe Davis
Jerusalem


Moshe Davis <davis@...> Jerusalem
DAVIS/DAVIDOVICS >from Szeleslonka(Leh),Maramaros,Austro-Hungary; OH;CA.
HAYFER/CHAIMOVICS >from Kovesliget(Drahiv),Maramaros,Austro-Hungary;OH;NJ;CA.
WINARD/WINARSKY and METKOP >from Kiev;Argentina;NY;CA.
BRACKER/BRECHER >from Bucharest/Iasi,Romania;NY;CA;AZ.
ABRAMSON >from Zvil (Novograd-Volinsky),Ukraine;Cuba;MI;MA;NH.
YAHIA/YICHYA >from Istanbul;Cuba;MI;CA.

Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Fany #hungary

JGyori@...
 

Dear Stephen,
I'm afraid I can't say if Francesca was a typical name, but I have a great
great great grandmother >from about 1820 whose name was Babette!! She was born
in Hungary.
So you just never know!

Judi Gyori Missel
Mesa, Arizona

Searching for the BRITZMAN family. #austria-czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Barry S Britzman wrote: "What an exciting event for
Celia and her newly discovered relatives.
Truly amazing. I just wish that I could find my
ancestral family of Britzmann. Does anyone know of any
such families today?"

Barry - Thank you for your congratulations and you can
now add congratulations to Tsvi Sinai for his linkage
too! I am happy to see you have made the long journey
to the Austria-Czech SIG!

Barry lives in Swansea, S. Wales and we have had
extensive correspondence since I met him on Jewishgen
[and a long phone call, too] re BRITZMAN.

Barry has given me permission to report our findings.

There are a few BRITZMANN with various spellings
to be found on censuses in England and Wales and USA
and we have to find a link with Barry's and the region
they came from.

Barry's grandfather [born ca 1860] arrived in London
in
the late 19th century and died in 1914.

In 1901 Hermann Ernst BRITZMAN was a tailor in London.
Mysteriously his birth place is given as Greece
[always possible!], but could he perhaps have said
Galizien in a thick accent and been misinterpreted?

We know that Hermannn's father was Daniel Britzman
[Manufacturer of Vinegar], >from Hermann's marriage
certificate, but that is all.

A preliminary screen shows the early BRITZMAN{N}
immigrants into the US [1851-1891] as having come from
Hamburg and England as ports of embarkation:

August Britzmann est.dob 1837
Carl Britzmann est. dob 1863
Julius Britzmann est. dob 1816
Rosa Britzman est. dob 1843

Ports of embarkation: Liverpool, England 1 Hamburg,
Germany 1 Bremen, Germany and Southampton, England 1

The censuses of England and Wales revealed in 1871:
[no husband apparent!] Catharine Britzman 27 born in
Liverpool, Lancashire.

In the 1901 census of England and Wales one BRIZMAN
family is listed:

Aaron {31}, wife Simmy {31} and children Mathilde and
Hyman aged 4 and 2 resp. The whole family was born in
Russia [a term which could include parts of Poland and
Ukraine and even]. They lived in Liverpool
and Aaron was a cabinet maker. So they must have
arrived in England in between 1899 and 1901.

There are also quite a few Jewish BRITZ from
Russia, Poland and Germany.

Tragically, a very good indication of the geographic
spread of the name and its various spellings can be
found on the Yad Vashem database where you will find
57 victims associated with that name coming from
Berlin, Russia, Poland, Bessarabia, Romania, Galicia
and France.

In the UK births register of 1904 I find a birth:

Britzman, Ernest Herman 1904 March Births St
Marylebone [1902-1977] Greater London.

who was the son on Hermann Ernst.

With first names "Hermann Ernst" my bet is that
Barry's BRITZMAN family came >from Germany or possibly
Galicia which was part of the Habsburg Empire.

Galicians however, did not usually have such Germanic
names till they emigrated to Vienna! So my choice is
Germany. And before that? Perhaps Silesia or Poland?

But I will look for Britzmann in the Kartei der
Fremden in Vienna, just incase.

As family links are spread far and wide, Barry who has
no further clues as to his families origins, will have
to try his luck on as many SIGS as possible, until he
hopefully finds a link.

We all wish him luck in his quest for his family
roots.

Celia Male[UK]

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Searching for the BRITZMAN family. #austria-czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Barry S Britzman wrote: "What an exciting event for
Celia and her newly discovered relatives.
Truly amazing. I just wish that I could find my
ancestral family of Britzmann. Does anyone know of any
such families today?"

Barry - Thank you for your congratulations and you can
now add congratulations to Tsvi Sinai for his linkage
too! I am happy to see you have made the long journey
to the Austria-Czech SIG!

Barry lives in Swansea, S. Wales and we have had
extensive correspondence since I met him on Jewishgen
[and a long phone call, too] re BRITZMAN.

Barry has given me permission to report our findings.

There are a few BRITZMANN with various spellings
to be found on censuses in England and Wales and USA
and we have to find a link with Barry's and the region
they came from.

Barry's grandfather [born ca 1860] arrived in London
in
the late 19th century and died in 1914.

In 1901 Hermann Ernst BRITZMAN was a tailor in London.
Mysteriously his birth place is given as Greece
[always possible!], but could he perhaps have said
Galizien in a thick accent and been misinterpreted?

We know that Hermannn's father was Daniel Britzman
[Manufacturer of Vinegar], >from Hermann's marriage
certificate, but that is all.

A preliminary screen shows the early BRITZMAN{N}
immigrants into the US [1851-1891] as having come from
Hamburg and England as ports of embarkation:

August Britzmann est.dob 1837
Carl Britzmann est. dob 1863
Julius Britzmann est. dob 1816
Rosa Britzman est. dob 1843

Ports of embarkation: Liverpool, England 1 Hamburg,
Germany 1 Bremen, Germany and Southampton, England 1

The censuses of England and Wales revealed in 1871:
[no husband apparent!] Catharine Britzman 27 born in
Liverpool, Lancashire.

In the 1901 census of England and Wales one BRIZMAN
family is listed:

Aaron {31}, wife Simmy {31} and children Mathilde and
Hyman aged 4 and 2 resp. The whole family was born in
Russia [a term which could include parts of Poland and
Ukraine and even]. They lived in Liverpool
and Aaron was a cabinet maker. So they must have
arrived in England in between 1899 and 1901.

There are also quite a few Jewish BRITZ from
Russia, Poland and Germany.

Tragically, a very good indication of the geographic
spread of the name and its various spellings can be
found on the Yad Vashem database where you will find
57 victims associated with that name coming from
Berlin, Russia, Poland, Bessarabia, Romania, Galicia
and France.

In the UK births register of 1904 I find a birth:

Britzman, Ernest Herman 1904 March Births St
Marylebone [1902-1977] Greater London.

who was the son on Hermann Ernst.

With first names "Hermann Ernst" my bet is that
Barry's BRITZMAN family came >from Germany or possibly
Galicia which was part of the Habsburg Empire.

Galicians however, did not usually have such Germanic
names till they emigrated to Vienna! So my choice is
Germany. And before that? Perhaps Silesia or Poland?

But I will look for Britzmann in the Kartei der
Fremden in Vienna, just incase.

As family links are spread far and wide, Barry who has
no further clues as to his families origins, will have
to try his luck on as many SIGS as possible, until he
hopefully finds a link.

We all wish him luck in his quest for his family
roots.

Celia Male[UK]

Lithuanian Vital Records Indexing Project Update - Vilna Vital Records Challenge Grant #southafrica

Joel Ratner
 

I am pleased to announce the funds necessary to take full advantage of the
$1000 challenge grant by the Baron family have been received. These
contributions, along with the matching funds, will allow approximately two
years worth of Vilna city records to be translated. There are 80 years worth
of records in total for Vilna, so we are off to a good start.
The ability to complete all remaining records will require similar
contributions on the part of others. If anyone else wishes to make a similar
challenge grant, please contact me at Joelrat1@... .

http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/FHLC/VilnaMicrofilmsIndex.htm

Joel Ratner
Coordinator, Vilna District Research Group
Interim Coordinator, Vilna Vital Records

South Africa SIG #SouthAfrica Lithuanian Vital Records Indexing Project Update - Vilna Vital Records Challenge Grant #southafrica

Joel Ratner
 

I am pleased to announce the funds necessary to take full advantage of the
$1000 challenge grant by the Baron family have been received. These
contributions, along with the matching funds, will allow approximately two
years worth of Vilna city records to be translated. There are 80 years worth
of records in total for Vilna, so we are off to a good start.
The ability to complete all remaining records will require similar
contributions on the part of others. If anyone else wishes to make a similar
challenge grant, please contact me at Joelrat1@... .

http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/FHLC/VilnaMicrofilmsIndex.htm

Joel Ratner
Coordinator, Vilna District Research Group
Interim Coordinator, Vilna Vital Records

Re: Kalladey, Budweiser Kreis, Bohemia and Merging Family Trees #austria-czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Tsvi Sinai [Israel] writes:

I am a bit surprised by your links with Peter
Barber, Celia. I was sure that Peter's ancestry is
from Poland, as we have a common cousin, Eve Klein,
nee Barber. She is my first cousin, born in Bratislava
[the same as I] >from the Fuchs-Redlich (Bisenz) side
and Peter's second cousin >from the Barber side.

Well Tsvi - what you do not realise is that now your
tree and Peter Barber's, Ruth Coman's and mine have
also merged ... and possible Jane Reber's and Randy
Schoenberg's too.

The link is real and confirmed:

KAFKA-SALUS-SCHUSSLER-BACHRACH-BIACH-KOHN
[changed to Kerner].

The latter family is mine.

Now you must work out the following link with Peter:

FUCHS-REDLICH-KLEIN-BARBER to SALUS and then we are
all linked.

Links [chains] are very complex but fun! And that
should be one of our "raison d'etre", namely to have a
bit of fun, with our fellow SIGGERS!

So, tonight there will be dancing in the streets of
Bisenz and Bratislava [Pressburg, Presporek, Pozsony]
too. More Bim Bam Bom all around.

How many more links can we find? I have recently found
a link for a 1790s Bremen-Danish POLLAK family with a
Sephardic family >from Livorno, [dello STROLOGO],
resident in Alexandria, Egypt since the 1850s. These
POLLAKS are probably linked to some of ours - if we
only knew how.

That is what I understand by the "Family Tree of the
Jewish People".

Celia Male [UK]

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech re:Kalladey, Budweiser Kreis, Bohemia and Merging Family Trees #austria-czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Tsvi Sinai [Israel] writes:

I am a bit surprised by your links with Peter
Barber, Celia. I was sure that Peter's ancestry is
from Poland, as we have a common cousin, Eve Klein,
nee Barber. She is my first cousin, born in Bratislava
[the same as I] >from the Fuchs-Redlich (Bisenz) side
and Peter's second cousin >from the Barber side.

Well Tsvi - what you do not realise is that now your
tree and Peter Barber's, Ruth Coman's and mine have
also merged ... and possible Jane Reber's and Randy
Schoenberg's too.

The link is real and confirmed:

KAFKA-SALUS-SCHUSSLER-BACHRACH-BIACH-KOHN
[changed to Kerner].

The latter family is mine.

Now you must work out the following link with Peter:

FUCHS-REDLICH-KLEIN-BARBER to SALUS and then we are
all linked.

Links [chains] are very complex but fun! And that
should be one of our "raison d'etre", namely to have a
bit of fun, with our fellow SIGGERS!

So, tonight there will be dancing in the streets of
Bisenz and Bratislava [Pressburg, Presporek, Pozsony]
too. More Bim Bam Bom all around.

How many more links can we find? I have recently found
a link for a 1790s Bremen-Danish POLLAK family with a
Sephardic family >from Livorno, [dello STROLOGO],
resident in Alexandria, Egypt since the 1850s. These
POLLAKS are probably linked to some of ours - if we
only knew how.

That is what I understand by the "Family Tree of the
Jewish People".

Celia Male [UK]

Re: Kreises in Moravia? #austria-czech

Wolf-Erich Eckstein <w.eckstein@...>
 

Moravia had same pattern of "Kreise" (czech "Kraj") like all the
other parts of Austro-Hungarian monarchy.
I don't remember where I found (and collected) detailed maps for
counties like Bruenn/Brno, Iglau/Jihlava, Olmuetz/Olomouc, Prerau/Prerov,
Teschen/Tesin and so on >from 1848 including "krajska hranice" and
"hranice panstvi a statku"

Wolf-Erich Eckstein
Vienna/AUSTRIA
http://members.chello.at/eckstein_we/

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Re: Kreises in Moravia? #austria-czech

Wolf-Erich Eckstein <w.eckstein@...>
 

Moravia had same pattern of "Kreise" (czech "Kraj") like all the
other parts of Austro-Hungarian monarchy.
I don't remember where I found (and collected) detailed maps for
counties like Bruenn/Brno, Iglau/Jihlava, Olmuetz/Olomouc, Prerau/Prerov,
Teschen/Tesin and so on >from 1848 including "krajska hranice" and
"hranice panstvi a statku"

Wolf-Erich Eckstein
Vienna/AUSTRIA
http://members.chello.at/eckstein_we/

1793 census of Jews in Bohemia #austria-czech

Zimmer-Luedinghausen@...
 

A few days ago I ordered Volume II of the "1793 census of Jews in
Bohemia" which I received today.

I believe to have found my ggggrandparents in one of the villages.
I was surprised that in most of the villages there was only one
jewish family.
This is the case with a KRAUS family I am looking for.

For quite some time I was trying to find the parents of my
gggrandmother Elisabeth / Bele LANG nee KRAUS.

from her son's birth certificate I knew she was >from a small
place near Prague called Horni Pocernice (Ober Potschernitz).
from the two different burial lists of the old Olsany cemetery
in Prague I found out that her father was on one list called
Moshe Kraus and on the other list he was called Meir Kraus.

Now I thought that the 1793 census would give me more information
about Bele's father and family.

I knew she could not be mentioned in the Census because she was
born in 1802, 9 years after the census was taken. But I thought
I could find her family.

I found one Kraus Family in Ober Potschernitz (in fact the
only Jewish family in this village) but the head of the family is
not Mosche or Meir Kraus but Jachim Kraus, he is married and has
got four sons. Perhaps in 1802 he had a daughter called
Elisabeth / Bele.

In a village called Kralovice (Kralowitz), about 5 miles away
from Ober Potschernitz I found a Moises Kraus (this time 7 jewish
families in this village), married with 2 daughters. Perhaps he is
Elisabeth's father.

Now my new book doesn't really help but makes things even more
complicated.

Perhaps someone of you who is more familiar with this census and
can give me an advice how to clarify my assumptions. Or am I on
the wrong track?

BTW Will there also be a Volume for the City of Prague or is
it already published?

Peter Zimmer
Muenster, Germany

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech 1793 census of Jews in Bohemia #austria-czech

Zimmer-Luedinghausen@...
 

A few days ago I ordered Volume II of the "1793 census of Jews in
Bohemia" which I received today.

I believe to have found my ggggrandparents in one of the villages.
I was surprised that in most of the villages there was only one
jewish family.
This is the case with a KRAUS family I am looking for.

For quite some time I was trying to find the parents of my
gggrandmother Elisabeth / Bele LANG nee KRAUS.

from her son's birth certificate I knew she was >from a small
place near Prague called Horni Pocernice (Ober Potschernitz).
from the two different burial lists of the old Olsany cemetery
in Prague I found out that her father was on one list called
Moshe Kraus and on the other list he was called Meir Kraus.

Now I thought that the 1793 census would give me more information
about Bele's father and family.

I knew she could not be mentioned in the Census because she was
born in 1802, 9 years after the census was taken. But I thought
I could find her family.

I found one Kraus Family in Ober Potschernitz (in fact the
only Jewish family in this village) but the head of the family is
not Mosche or Meir Kraus but Jachim Kraus, he is married and has
got four sons. Perhaps in 1802 he had a daughter called
Elisabeth / Bele.

In a village called Kralovice (Kralowitz), about 5 miles away
from Ober Potschernitz I found a Moises Kraus (this time 7 jewish
families in this village), married with 2 daughters. Perhaps he is
Elisabeth's father.

Now my new book doesn't really help but makes things even more
complicated.

Perhaps someone of you who is more familiar with this census and
can give me an advice how to clarify my assumptions. Or am I on
the wrong track?

BTW Will there also be a Volume for the City of Prague or is
it already published?

Peter Zimmer
Muenster, Germany