Date   

Searching for Sarah R. HOROWITZ nee S(H)ERPER from Ushachi #belarus

Ara Morenberg <amorenberg@...>
 

I am searching for living family of Sore
Serper/Sherper who arrived in New York in early June
1906 on the ship Amerika (traveling >from Hamburg) from
Ushachi, Lepel, Vitebsk, Belarus. She was 20-21 years
old at the time and was detained on the ship, I
presume for illness. According to the Amerika's list
of detainees, Sore's destination was to her uncle Dave
Horowitz' home located at 814 E. 147th in NY (I can't
find this address in the 1905/15/25 New York state
censuses).

I do have a copy of her marriage certificate to her
first cousin Sam Horowitz on 18 Nov 1906, whose father
was Dave. His mother was Etta Basevich/Bosewitz;
Sarah's mother was Fannie Basevich/Bosewitz. Sarah's
father was A(a)ron S(h)erper. The witnesses to the
marriage were Abraham Zaradnik and Max Catzman. I have
documentation that Sarah's parents were in fact
A(a)ron of Zalman and Fruma-Khava of Berka Serper and
that they were living in Ushachi in 1895 according to
the 1895 List of Jews in Ushachi. With them at the
time were also their 3 daughters, Sora-Rokha (Sarah R.
Sherper according to NY marriage certificate), Braina
and Bliuma.

According to the same 1895 List of Jews in Ushachi,
Fruma-Khava Serper's father is listed as Berka
Basevich and details the members of the Basevich
family living with him at the time.

If you have any knowledge of this family, please
contact me privately.



Ara Morenberg Pembroke Pines, FL
Ostroshitskiy Gorodok & Minsk, Belarus: LEVIN,
HERZOK/HERZOG, YOSELOV/YOSELOFF
Ushachi, Beshenkowitschi, Chashniki, Lepel, Vitebsk,
Belarus: SERPER/SCHERPER/SHERPER, SAFRO/SAFFRO,
SCHWAM,BASEVICH/BOSEWITZ


Re: Which Govt Office? #general

A. E. Jordan
 

In a message dated 7/22/2008 3:44:01 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
blspabas@... writes:
Which American, Canadian, Australian, South African and German equivalent
departmental Govt offices would be the one/s to write to, to try to trace
passport and other immigration documents of entry >from the last 50 years
only, for those who were Jewish and originally registered as Latvian
citizens.....


I can speak only to the USA and maybe a little to the Latvia as a point of
origin question.

The USA did not issue passports for inbound immigrants. Passports are only
for citizens who traveled aboard and not a standard practice until into the
20th century. However if you have family in the USA who traveled aboard you
should check the passport files because they could be very rewarding. I found
info and photos >from the 1920s of my family when they were going to Europe
from the USA.
USA passport applications up to the early 1920s are public. I checked them
at NARA in Washington DC but they are also online at that well-known paid web
site. I also wrote away to Washington DC and was able to get copies of all
of my grandparents and my great grandfather's passport applications >from the
later 1920s >from the records are have not been released. In that case it was
slow and I had to show that the people were deceased to get the files.

As for Latvia I have never seen them but I believe exit papers were issued
when the people left the country legally. I asked the archives in Riga a few
years ago and they said they did not have copies of exit papers as the people
took them with them. Often however people left without official exit papers.

Allan Jordan


Belarus SIG #Belarus Searching for Sarah R. HOROWITZ nee S(H)ERPER from Ushachi #belarus

Ara Morenberg <amorenberg@...>
 

I am searching for living family of Sore
Serper/Sherper who arrived in New York in early June
1906 on the ship Amerika (traveling >from Hamburg) from
Ushachi, Lepel, Vitebsk, Belarus. She was 20-21 years
old at the time and was detained on the ship, I
presume for illness. According to the Amerika's list
of detainees, Sore's destination was to her uncle Dave
Horowitz' home located at 814 E. 147th in NY (I can't
find this address in the 1905/15/25 New York state
censuses).

I do have a copy of her marriage certificate to her
first cousin Sam Horowitz on 18 Nov 1906, whose father
was Dave. His mother was Etta Basevich/Bosewitz;
Sarah's mother was Fannie Basevich/Bosewitz. Sarah's
father was A(a)ron S(h)erper. The witnesses to the
marriage were Abraham Zaradnik and Max Catzman. I have
documentation that Sarah's parents were in fact
A(a)ron of Zalman and Fruma-Khava of Berka Serper and
that they were living in Ushachi in 1895 according to
the 1895 List of Jews in Ushachi. With them at the
time were also their 3 daughters, Sora-Rokha (Sarah R.
Sherper according to NY marriage certificate), Braina
and Bliuma.

According to the same 1895 List of Jews in Ushachi,
Fruma-Khava Serper's father is listed as Berka
Basevich and details the members of the Basevich
family living with him at the time.

If you have any knowledge of this family, please
contact me privately.



Ara Morenberg Pembroke Pines, FL
Ostroshitskiy Gorodok & Minsk, Belarus: LEVIN,
HERZOK/HERZOG, YOSELOV/YOSELOFF
Ushachi, Beshenkowitschi, Chashniki, Lepel, Vitebsk,
Belarus: SERPER/SCHERPER/SHERPER, SAFRO/SAFFRO,
SCHWAM,BASEVICH/BOSEWITZ


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Which Govt Office? #general

A. E. Jordan
 

In a message dated 7/22/2008 3:44:01 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
blspabas@... writes:
Which American, Canadian, Australian, South African and German equivalent
departmental Govt offices would be the one/s to write to, to try to trace
passport and other immigration documents of entry >from the last 50 years
only, for those who were Jewish and originally registered as Latvian
citizens.....


I can speak only to the USA and maybe a little to the Latvia as a point of
origin question.

The USA did not issue passports for inbound immigrants. Passports are only
for citizens who traveled aboard and not a standard practice until into the
20th century. However if you have family in the USA who traveled aboard you
should check the passport files because they could be very rewarding. I found
info and photos >from the 1920s of my family when they were going to Europe
from the USA.
USA passport applications up to the early 1920s are public. I checked them
at NARA in Washington DC but they are also online at that well-known paid web
site. I also wrote away to Washington DC and was able to get copies of all
of my grandparents and my great grandfather's passport applications >from the
later 1920s >from the records are have not been released. In that case it was
slow and I had to show that the people were deceased to get the files.

As for Latvia I have never seen them but I believe exit papers were issued
when the people left the country legally. I asked the archives in Riga a few
years ago and they said they did not have copies of exit papers as the people
took them with them. Often however people left without official exit papers.

Allan Jordan


Re: Deported passengers #general

A. E. Jordan
 

In a message dated 7/21/2008 9:22:34 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
AREACO@... writes:
My gg aunt,her husband and one of their children were not allowed to
disembark in 1905 due to her husband's medical condition. Is there a
record of passengers sent back aside >from the "Detained" list?


As someone else suggested the terms are a bit muddled in this question.
Detained and deported (assuming you are talking about Ellis Island) are two
different status. Also you said the person was not allowed to
"disembark" which seems unlikely. That would mean they never got off
the ship. In the unlikely case that happened the person would have been
gravely ill and stayed on the ship and returned on the next sailing to the
old country. In that case I doubt the US authorities would have ever gotten
involved.

The shipping lines were responsible for the people and their health, hence
firms such as HAPAG did pre-screenings in Europe at the "village" they
maintained on the pier. For a person to have gotten on to the ship the
shipping line thought they were well enough to complete the voyage and
disembark at the other end. If they did not make it off the ship it is
likely they fell ill during the crossing, heart attack or something like that.
I have even seen a case where a person died during the crossing and the
widow and the body were still disembarked in New York and went to the son
who was living in the area and the body was buried in one of the local
cemeteries in NY.

Likely what happened in response to this question is that the person or
family disembarked the ship and was transferred by ferry to Ellis Island.
At Ellis Island they would have been spotted either in the line or during
the inspection and detained for a medical reason (this would be noted on the
passenger list). They likely would have been likely sent to the hospital
on Ellis Island. If they were deemed too ill and not able to recover >from
the illness they would have been sent back to the old country at the shipping
line's expense. It could have been on the same ship or possibly another
one of the same line if the line had another one sailing sooner to the old
country.

First I would recommend checking the back of the passenger list where there
are multiple pages showing who was detained and why and some cases on one of
several pages back there you will find further notations to an investigation,
hearing, etc. If a hearing took place I believe the records still exist for
those cases at the former INS records. You have to write to Washington DC
and request that file or all files related to the person.

You might also want to see if HIAS got involved. They have their own
records.

Unfortunately there are no records to show the return voyages because the
outbound passenger lists were generally not preserved.

You might also want to try and check and see if they tried to return to the
USA at a later date. Often families tried a second time if they had the
money and often they tried a different port or tried using a different name.

Allan Jordan


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Deported passengers #general

A. E. Jordan
 

In a message dated 7/21/2008 9:22:34 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
AREACO@... writes:
My gg aunt,her husband and one of their children were not allowed to
disembark in 1905 due to her husband's medical condition. Is there a
record of passengers sent back aside >from the "Detained" list?


As someone else suggested the terms are a bit muddled in this question.
Detained and deported (assuming you are talking about Ellis Island) are two
different status. Also you said the person was not allowed to
"disembark" which seems unlikely. That would mean they never got off
the ship. In the unlikely case that happened the person would have been
gravely ill and stayed on the ship and returned on the next sailing to the
old country. In that case I doubt the US authorities would have ever gotten
involved.

The shipping lines were responsible for the people and their health, hence
firms such as HAPAG did pre-screenings in Europe at the "village" they
maintained on the pier. For a person to have gotten on to the ship the
shipping line thought they were well enough to complete the voyage and
disembark at the other end. If they did not make it off the ship it is
likely they fell ill during the crossing, heart attack or something like that.
I have even seen a case where a person died during the crossing and the
widow and the body were still disembarked in New York and went to the son
who was living in the area and the body was buried in one of the local
cemeteries in NY.

Likely what happened in response to this question is that the person or
family disembarked the ship and was transferred by ferry to Ellis Island.
At Ellis Island they would have been spotted either in the line or during
the inspection and detained for a medical reason (this would be noted on the
passenger list). They likely would have been likely sent to the hospital
on Ellis Island. If they were deemed too ill and not able to recover >from
the illness they would have been sent back to the old country at the shipping
line's expense. It could have been on the same ship or possibly another
one of the same line if the line had another one sailing sooner to the old
country.

First I would recommend checking the back of the passenger list where there
are multiple pages showing who was detained and why and some cases on one of
several pages back there you will find further notations to an investigation,
hearing, etc. If a hearing took place I believe the records still exist for
those cases at the former INS records. You have to write to Washington DC
and request that file or all files related to the person.

You might also want to see if HIAS got involved. They have their own
records.

Unfortunately there are no records to show the return voyages because the
outbound passenger lists were generally not preserved.

You might also want to try and check and see if they tried to return to the
USA at a later date. Often families tried a second time if they had the
money and often they tried a different port or tried using a different name.

Allan Jordan


Louis EPSTEIN #general

Dov & Varda Epstein <yknow@...>
 

I just found out that Linda Eastman McCartney's father's surname was
originally EPSTEIN. I found some trees with more information through the
FTJP and some biographical info on wikipedia, which states that Linda's dad
was of Russian Jewish extraction.

One tree I found has Linda's paternal grandfather as Louis EPSTEIN, a name
which does appear in my husband's tree, though obviously, this is a common
Jewish name, both first and surname and my husband's family is >from East
Prussia.

Does anyone have any more information on this EPSTEIN line, such as
geographical location before immigration to the US? It sure would be
cool to state that I'm related to the Beatles by marriage-though it
looks like a far away possibility.

Varda Epstein
Efrat, Israel


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Louis EPSTEIN #general

Dov & Varda Epstein <yknow@...>
 

I just found out that Linda Eastman McCartney's father's surname was
originally EPSTEIN. I found some trees with more information through the
FTJP and some biographical info on wikipedia, which states that Linda's dad
was of Russian Jewish extraction.

One tree I found has Linda's paternal grandfather as Louis EPSTEIN, a name
which does appear in my husband's tree, though obviously, this is a common
Jewish name, both first and surname and my husband's family is >from East
Prussia.

Does anyone have any more information on this EPSTEIN line, such as
geographical location before immigration to the US? It sure would be
cool to state that I'm related to the Beatles by marriage-though it
looks like a far away possibility.

Varda Epstein
Efrat, Israel


Re: what is a cruvaner? #general

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Bobby Furst wrote: "My great grandfather died in New York City in 1910.
His occupation, listed on the death certificate "looks like" Cruvaner.

I have posted the death certificate at the following web site.
http://bobby1st.googlepages.com/whatisacruvaner%3F

If the occupation is *not* cruvaner then what does it say?
If the occupation IS cruvaner, then what is a cruvaner?"

My interpretation of this profession is that it is a [Yiddish?]
corruption/version of a crewel ie the needle used for making
button holes or the thicker thread used for making button holes - see:

http://www.goldneedlecn.com/crewel.htm

Bobby did tell us that Joseph Newman was a button-hole maker.

Celia Male - London [U.K.]


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen re: what is a cruvaner? #general

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Bobby Furst wrote: "My great grandfather died in New York City in 1910.
His occupation, listed on the death certificate "looks like" Cruvaner.

I have posted the death certificate at the following web site.
http://bobby1st.googlepages.com/whatisacruvaner%3F

If the occupation is *not* cruvaner then what does it say?
If the occupation IS cruvaner, then what is a cruvaner?"

My interpretation of this profession is that it is a [Yiddish?]
corruption/version of a crewel ie the needle used for making
button holes or the thicker thread used for making button holes - see:

http://www.goldneedlecn.com/crewel.htm

Bobby did tell us that Joseph Newman was a button-hole maker.

Celia Male - London [U.K.]


Re: Interpreting DNA results #dna

Pavel Bernshtam
 

On 2008.07.21, Sandra Krisch <Sandra@...> wrote:

The test results are in. They show that Robert was one of 18 people
who exactly matched Richard on the 12-marker test. Robert was the
only person to exactly match Richard on the 25 marker test. Robert
was one of four people to match Richard on 34 out of 37 markers, but
the only one matching all 25 markers on the 25 marker test.

What conclusions do these data allow us to draw regarding whether --
and more importantly when(i.e. how many generations ago)--Robert and
Richard had a common ancestor?
FTDNA writes that matching 34 out of 37 markers means that the
probability of a common ancestor in up to

4 generations is 4.3%
8 generations is 28.89%
12 generations is 60.38%
16 generations is 82.15%
20 generations is 93.07%
24 generations is 97.59%

As you can see it is a low probability that the common ancestor was
their great-great-grandfather.

But again - it is all about probabilities, not facts

Pavel Bernshtam

[Moderator's Note: Please note that the probabilities computed by
ftDNA take into account which of the 37 markers were the ones that
didn't match. If you have a 34/37 match of your own, you may have
different probabilities listed on your ftDNATiP Report page.
Nevertheless, Pavel's numbers seem more typical of a 33/37
match than a 34/37 match.]


DNA Research #DNA Re: Interpreting DNA results #dna

Pavel Bernshtam
 

On 2008.07.21, Sandra Krisch <Sandra@...> wrote:

The test results are in. They show that Robert was one of 18 people
who exactly matched Richard on the 12-marker test. Robert was the
only person to exactly match Richard on the 25 marker test. Robert
was one of four people to match Richard on 34 out of 37 markers, but
the only one matching all 25 markers on the 25 marker test.

What conclusions do these data allow us to draw regarding whether --
and more importantly when(i.e. how many generations ago)--Robert and
Richard had a common ancestor?
FTDNA writes that matching 34 out of 37 markers means that the
probability of a common ancestor in up to

4 generations is 4.3%
8 generations is 28.89%
12 generations is 60.38%
16 generations is 82.15%
20 generations is 93.07%
24 generations is 97.59%

As you can see it is a low probability that the common ancestor was
their great-great-grandfather.

But again - it is all about probabilities, not facts

Pavel Bernshtam

[Moderator's Note: Please note that the probabilities computed by
ftDNA take into account which of the 37 markers were the ones that
didn't match. If you have a 34/37 match of your own, you may have
different probabilities listed on your ftDNATiP Report page.
Nevertheless, Pavel's numbers seem more typical of a 33/37
match than a 34/37 match.]


BDSandV Research Group Meeting at IAJGS Conference #poland

Carole Feinberg
 

Dear Readers,

The Boryslaw, Drohobycz, Sambor and Vicinity (BDSandV) Research Group
invites those whose ancestors came >from nearby shtetlach, such as Stryj,
to attend our Birds of a Feather (BOF) meeting, Sunday, Aug. 17, 2008,
5:00 - 6:15 p.m. in Ballroom B. We will be having powerhouse speakers,
and you may discover helpful information.

For those of you wishing to see the film, "Stealing Klimt", it will be
reshown Thursday, 2:00 - 3:30 p.m.

Bill Fern and Pamela Weisberger were among the first group to visit the
newly-accessible-to-groups Red Cross International Tracing Service Archives
in Bad Arolsen, Germany. Each will share some of their experiences during
the BDSandV BOF meeting, as well as during the GesherGalicia Special
Interest Group meeting the following day.

Specific to BDSandV, Bill will discuss the Boryslaw-Drohobycz Transport
[of Prisoners] List he discovered. He has studied this list, shared it
with some Survivors, and Bill will speak to what he has learned that isn't
on this list. In addition, Bill will discuss another special project of his,
Schutzstaffel (SS) wartime crimes in Drohobycz and Boryslaw--both are new
material for most of us.

Pamela will discuss the cadastral map and landowner records research project
and house number project that we BDSandV Research Group members have *yet*
to focus on, collectively.

If you are planning to attend Sunday's Birds of a Feather meeting and you
haven't contacted me please do so at <carolefeinberg@...>. We will
reserve your copy of Bill Fern's important handouts.

Do you have something you'd like discussed?
Do you have an announcement you'd like to make?
Please notify me at <carolefeinberg@...>.

Carole Glick Feinberg
Atlanta, GA, USA

Drohobycz: BERNSTEIN, LERNER, STEUERMANN, SCHNEIDSCHER, KREUTZENAUER,
KOCH, WEBER, HAMMERMAN, GARTENBERG, ROSBERG, HACKER;
Boryslaw: HILLEBRAND, SCHECK;


JRI Poland #Poland BDSandV Research Group Meeting at IAJGS Conference #poland

Carole Feinberg
 

Dear Readers,

The Boryslaw, Drohobycz, Sambor and Vicinity (BDSandV) Research Group
invites those whose ancestors came >from nearby shtetlach, such as Stryj,
to attend our Birds of a Feather (BOF) meeting, Sunday, Aug. 17, 2008,
5:00 - 6:15 p.m. in Ballroom B. We will be having powerhouse speakers,
and you may discover helpful information.

For those of you wishing to see the film, "Stealing Klimt", it will be
reshown Thursday, 2:00 - 3:30 p.m.

Bill Fern and Pamela Weisberger were among the first group to visit the
newly-accessible-to-groups Red Cross International Tracing Service Archives
in Bad Arolsen, Germany. Each will share some of their experiences during
the BDSandV BOF meeting, as well as during the GesherGalicia Special
Interest Group meeting the following day.

Specific to BDSandV, Bill will discuss the Boryslaw-Drohobycz Transport
[of Prisoners] List he discovered. He has studied this list, shared it
with some Survivors, and Bill will speak to what he has learned that isn't
on this list. In addition, Bill will discuss another special project of his,
Schutzstaffel (SS) wartime crimes in Drohobycz and Boryslaw--both are new
material for most of us.

Pamela will discuss the cadastral map and landowner records research project
and house number project that we BDSandV Research Group members have *yet*
to focus on, collectively.

If you are planning to attend Sunday's Birds of a Feather meeting and you
haven't contacted me please do so at <carolefeinberg@...>. We will
reserve your copy of Bill Fern's important handouts.

Do you have something you'd like discussed?
Do you have an announcement you'd like to make?
Please notify me at <carolefeinberg@...>.

Carole Glick Feinberg
Atlanta, GA, USA

Drohobycz: BERNSTEIN, LERNER, STEUERMANN, SCHNEIDSCHER, KREUTZENAUER,
KOCH, WEBER, HAMMERMAN, GARTENBERG, ROSBERG, HACKER;
Boryslaw: HILLEBRAND, SCHECK;


Re: How to find maiden name? #poland

Robin Altwarg <robin@...>
 

Hi all,

I don't have an answer for Bobby's mystery. I have a simlar puzzle in my
family in that my great-grandparents Abraham and Annie JACOBS, who both
came >from the Suwalki region, had seven children. All their children
were born in the UK and according to the birth certificates the maiden
name of the first three children is LOUIS, the middle child MILYUNASKI
or VILYUNASKI (the handwriting is hard to make out) and the last three
children HARRIS.

LOUIS and HARRIS don't sound like the maiden name of a Polish Jew! It is
possible that there was more than one Annie, but I have not found a record
of death for the first Annie or a marriage certificate for any subsequent
Annie's to Abraham. Does anyone have any ideas?

Kind regards,

Robin Altwarg
Hertfordshire, United Kingdom
Researching: ALTWARG (Brest, Belarus), DOBROULSKI (Poland), JACOBS (Sakiai,
Lithuania), LEVY (Poland), MILYUNASKI or VILYUNASKI (Marijampole,
Lithuania), POMERANTZ (Brest, Belarus), POSENER (Poland), POSNER (Poland),
WEINBERG (Poland).


How to find maiden name? #poland

Kirsten Gradel <kirsten.gradel@...>
 

Bobby

I have looked at your web site and to me it looks like the records
you collected are all >from USA. Why not go to the primary source.

If you search JRI-Poland database you find a birth for the name
DOBRONIEWSKI appearing in Bialystok for a Szebsel Mowszo - Samuel M.
(Shabeta Moshe! - born 1871, son of Beniamin. Mother's name not given
in the index, but if you send for a copy of the actual record the
mother's name will be noted and in all likelyhood her maiden name
too. See

http://www.jewishgen.org/jri-pl/jriplweb.htm

BIALYSTOK.
Surname Givenname Year Type Akt Father Mother Film
DOBRONIEWSKI Szebsel Mowszo 1871 B 156M Beniamin 1191935

The record is on LDS film 1191935 and you can order directly >from
Salt Lake City based on the information given in the JRI-Poland
database - how to is noted on the JRI-Poland search page. One record
costs only $2 but there is a minimun payment of $4/order so if you
can find another record you also want it is worth while.

Of course there is no guarantee that this is a birth record of your
Beniamin and Chaja Sora but chances are very good, town, given name,
surname and year 1871 match perfectly to your Samuel Moshe.

Good luck,

Kirsten Gradel,
Denmark


JRI Poland #Poland Re: How to find maiden name? #poland

Robin Altwarg <robin@...>
 

Hi all,

I don't have an answer for Bobby's mystery. I have a simlar puzzle in my
family in that my great-grandparents Abraham and Annie JACOBS, who both
came >from the Suwalki region, had seven children. All their children
were born in the UK and according to the birth certificates the maiden
name of the first three children is LOUIS, the middle child MILYUNASKI
or VILYUNASKI (the handwriting is hard to make out) and the last three
children HARRIS.

LOUIS and HARRIS don't sound like the maiden name of a Polish Jew! It is
possible that there was more than one Annie, but I have not found a record
of death for the first Annie or a marriage certificate for any subsequent
Annie's to Abraham. Does anyone have any ideas?

Kind regards,

Robin Altwarg
Hertfordshire, United Kingdom
Researching: ALTWARG (Brest, Belarus), DOBROULSKI (Poland), JACOBS (Sakiai,
Lithuania), LEVY (Poland), MILYUNASKI or VILYUNASKI (Marijampole,
Lithuania), POMERANTZ (Brest, Belarus), POSENER (Poland), POSNER (Poland),
WEINBERG (Poland).


JRI Poland #Poland How to find maiden name? #poland

Kirsten Gradel <kirsten.gradel@...>
 

Bobby

I have looked at your web site and to me it looks like the records
you collected are all >from USA. Why not go to the primary source.

If you search JRI-Poland database you find a birth for the name
DOBRONIEWSKI appearing in Bialystok for a Szebsel Mowszo - Samuel M.
(Shabeta Moshe! - born 1871, son of Beniamin. Mother's name not given
in the index, but if you send for a copy of the actual record the
mother's name will be noted and in all likelyhood her maiden name
too. See

http://www.jewishgen.org/jri-pl/jriplweb.htm

BIALYSTOK.
Surname Givenname Year Type Akt Father Mother Film
DOBRONIEWSKI Szebsel Mowszo 1871 B 156M Beniamin 1191935

The record is on LDS film 1191935 and you can order directly >from
Salt Lake City based on the information given in the JRI-Poland
database - how to is noted on the JRI-Poland search page. One record
costs only $2 but there is a minimun payment of $4/order so if you
can find another record you also want it is worth while.

Of course there is no guarantee that this is a birth record of your
Beniamin and Chaja Sora but chances are very good, town, given name,
surname and year 1871 match perfectly to your Samuel Moshe.

Good luck,

Kirsten Gradel,
Denmark


Re How to find maiden name? #poland

Sally Goodman <sbgoody@...>
 

Bobby Furst wrote in part:

Chaja Sora married Benjamin Dobroniewski in about 1869 in Bialystok...
...the following maiden names for Sarah:
Benjamin, Wulinsky, Apelbaum, Farber, Weiss, Werner, Malkin, Rose.
...All suggestions on how to find her "real" maiden name are welcome.

Based on my own experience I would guess one of the names mentioned above is
a mother's maiden name, a father's surname, a maternal grandparent's maiden
name, a paternal grandparent's name etc.

My paternal gm's name was Sala STEIN. There is no record of her other than
her tombstone in Vienna.

I finally found a marriage record for my paternal gf who said his bride was
Sara ROSENSTOCK. (how can that be?)

That marriage record gave me Sara's father's name: Chaim Israel ROSENSTOCK.
Then I found Israel Chaim (I didn't reverse this) ROSENSTOCK'S parents'
names: Malke ROSENSTOCK and Eisig STEIN.

Then I found the names of 10 of Chaim Israel ROSENSTOCK-STEIN's children
some who have the name ROSENSTOCK and some who have the name STEIN as their
surname. (Why?)

Are Sala STEIN and Sara ROSENSTOCK the same person?
Did Sara die and Sala raise my father as her own child?

Many mysteries to be solved.

Good luck, Bobby.

Sally Goodman
sbgoody@...
Palm Springs/LA CA


JRI Poland #Poland Re How to find maiden name? #poland

Sally Goodman <sbgoody@...>
 

Bobby Furst wrote in part:

Chaja Sora married Benjamin Dobroniewski in about 1869 in Bialystok...
...the following maiden names for Sarah:
Benjamin, Wulinsky, Apelbaum, Farber, Weiss, Werner, Malkin, Rose.
...All suggestions on how to find her "real" maiden name are welcome.

Based on my own experience I would guess one of the names mentioned above is
a mother's maiden name, a father's surname, a maternal grandparent's maiden
name, a paternal grandparent's name etc.

My paternal gm's name was Sala STEIN. There is no record of her other than
her tombstone in Vienna.

I finally found a marriage record for my paternal gf who said his bride was
Sara ROSENSTOCK. (how can that be?)

That marriage record gave me Sara's father's name: Chaim Israel ROSENSTOCK.
Then I found Israel Chaim (I didn't reverse this) ROSENSTOCK'S parents'
names: Malke ROSENSTOCK and Eisig STEIN.

Then I found the names of 10 of Chaim Israel ROSENSTOCK-STEIN's children
some who have the name ROSENSTOCK and some who have the name STEIN as their
surname. (Why?)

Are Sala STEIN and Sara ROSENSTOCK the same person?
Did Sara die and Sala raise my father as her own child?

Many mysteries to be solved.

Good luck, Bobby.

Sally Goodman
sbgoody@...
Palm Springs/LA CA