Date   
Re: Viennese Hiking Song #austria-czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Robert Fraser >from Australia is looking for the missing words in a rhyme
his family used to sing when hiking. As I mentioned in my previous posting,
this cannot be a Viennese song, because of the word "Blumenkohl". Other
linguistic pointers to a German, as opposed to a Viennese origin, are the
words "Kartoffel" [Viennese = Erdapfel] & "Krumel" with umlaut [Viennese =
Brosel - with umlaut].

I have recipe books of my grandmother going back many, many years! These
books are also interesting genealogical resources as the recipes are prefaced,
for example, with "Tante Marie's Marillenknodel" etc

Robert, you can find the answer to your question in a German "Senior Citizens'
chat group"!

http://www.seniorentreff.ch/diskussion/archiv6/a1286.html
nb: one long URL

Translation of the German text: When we were schoolchildren, we used to sing
the following song at youth hostels before our meals. Does anyone still
remember it?

Well, Robert did [partially!].

Marmelade, Karbonade, Eisbein, Schnitzel, Blumenkohl,
Salat.... oh Erdbeertorte, oh Kuchenkrumel,
Bratkartoffeln.... wir haben Hunger, Hunger, Hunger,
haben Hunger, Hunger, Hunger, haben Hunger, Hunger,
Hunger, haben Durst ...!!

Celia Male [UK]

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech re: Viennese Hiking Song #austria-czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Robert Fraser >from Australia is looking for the missing words in a rhyme
his family used to sing when hiking. As I mentioned in my previous posting,
this cannot be a Viennese song, because of the word "Blumenkohl". Other
linguistic pointers to a German, as opposed to a Viennese origin, are the
words "Kartoffel" [Viennese = Erdapfel] & "Krumel" with umlaut [Viennese =
Brosel - with umlaut].

I have recipe books of my grandmother going back many, many years! These
books are also interesting genealogical resources as the recipes are prefaced,
for example, with "Tante Marie's Marillenknodel" etc

Robert, you can find the answer to your question in a German "Senior Citizens'
chat group"!

http://www.seniorentreff.ch/diskussion/archiv6/a1286.html
nb: one long URL

Translation of the German text: When we were schoolchildren, we used to sing
the following song at youth hostels before our meals. Does anyone still
remember it?

Well, Robert did [partially!].

Marmelade, Karbonade, Eisbein, Schnitzel, Blumenkohl,
Salat.... oh Erdbeertorte, oh Kuchenkrumel,
Bratkartoffeln.... wir haben Hunger, Hunger, Hunger,
haben Hunger, Hunger, Hunger, haben Hunger, Hunger,
Hunger, haben Durst ...!!

Celia Male [UK]

Herman from Luzan #austria-czech

CMBerkowitz@...
 

One of my husband's great grandparents, Chaim HERMAN, immigrated to the US
on 3 September 1899. On the ship's passenger list it states his hometown as
Luzan, Austria. Does anyone know if this is what is now the Czech Republic.
Another possible clue, they also immigrated with Soshe PASTERNAK and Eidel
SEIDNER. Eidel was also >from Luzan but Soshe was >from Wiznitz, or at least
that's what it looked like. On US census records they state their native language
is Polish.

Thank you,
Cindy Berkowitz
New Jersey, USA

MODERATOR NOTE: Have you looked at the GemeindeView list of towns on the
Austria-Czech web site? http://www.jewishgen.org/austriaczech/gemeinde.htm
Another good tool for locating places is the JewishGen ShtetlSeeker:
http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Herman from Luzan #austria-czech

CMBerkowitz@...
 

One of my husband's great grandparents, Chaim HERMAN, immigrated to the US
on 3 September 1899. On the ship's passenger list it states his hometown as
Luzan, Austria. Does anyone know if this is what is now the Czech Republic.
Another possible clue, they also immigrated with Soshe PASTERNAK and Eidel
SEIDNER. Eidel was also >from Luzan but Soshe was >from Wiznitz, or at least
that's what it looked like. On US census records they state their native language
is Polish.

Thank you,
Cindy Berkowitz
New Jersey, USA

MODERATOR NOTE: Have you looked at the GemeindeView list of towns on the
Austria-Czech web site? http://www.jewishgen.org/austriaczech/gemeinde.htm
Another good tool for locating places is the JewishGen ShtetlSeeker:
http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/

Re: Viennese Hiking Song #austria-czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Robert Fraser >from Australia asks about a Viennese
hiking song: "hunger hunger, hunger, hunger -----
Marmelade ---- Schnitzel, Blumenkohlsalat und warme
Wuerstchen, Bratkartoffel, hunger hunger, hunger,
hunger"

The main point I would like to make is linguistic.
Linguistic matters are often important genealogical
clues and should never be ignored in our SIG.
This cannot be a Vienesse hiking song as no
self-respecting Viennese would use the Hochdeutsch
word Blumenkohl [cauliflower].

The Viennese word is Karfiol - derived >from the
Italian "Cavalfiore". Karfiolsuppe is one of my
favourites. I had never heard the word Blumenkohl till
I met some "real" Germans.

There were many French and Italian words used in
Viennese German. So we have a genealogical clue here:
Perhaps Robert's family were not >from Vienna, or
alternatively, they hiked with German friends who sang
the song?

Celia Male [UK]

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Re: Viennese Hiking Song #austria-czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Robert Fraser >from Australia asks about a Viennese
hiking song: "hunger hunger, hunger, hunger -----
Marmelade ---- Schnitzel, Blumenkohlsalat und warme
Wuerstchen, Bratkartoffel, hunger hunger, hunger,
hunger"

The main point I would like to make is linguistic.
Linguistic matters are often important genealogical
clues and should never be ignored in our SIG.
This cannot be a Vienesse hiking song as no
self-respecting Viennese would use the Hochdeutsch
word Blumenkohl [cauliflower].

The Viennese word is Karfiol - derived >from the
Italian "Cavalfiore". Karfiolsuppe is one of my
favourites. I had never heard the word Blumenkohl till
I met some "real" Germans.

There were many French and Italian words used in
Viennese German. So we have a genealogical clue here:
Perhaps Robert's family were not >from Vienna, or
alternatively, they hiked with German friends who sang
the song?

Celia Male [UK]

Search: ALTSCHUL, VERSTAENDIG, KANTUREK #austria-czech

Amira Kohn-Trattner <amira.kt@...>
 

Searching for Heinz VERSTAENDIG (born in Vienna on December 18th 1931) son
of Adolf ALTSCHUL (his mother's name was Hedwig FISCHEL and father Emil
Altschul - he had a sister Jana). Adolf, born in Vienna 1910, lived in
Prague and Brno, arrived in Britain on December 2nd 1947 (was living at
45 Arundel Gardens London W.11). He gave his profession (to the JRC) as
'journalist'. I do not know why father and son had different last names.
They both registered with the JRC in London on the same day December 18th,
1947. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Another cousin of my mothers' (in addition to ALTSCHUL) was Otto KANTUREK.
He was the son of Hilda FISCHEL and a well known cinematographer who
worked with Fritz LANG. During the War he worked as a photojournalist in
Britain and flew between Dover and Calle when he was shot down. (photo of
the plane being shot down was published in LIFE magazine - I have not been
able to find it yet). I am searching for any information on Otto KANTUREK
or any survivors of his immediate family. He was married in Edmond (does
anyone know where that is?) and may have had children.

Thanks.
Amira Kohn-Trattner
New York, N.Y.

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Search: ALTSCHUL, VERSTAENDIG, KANTUREK #austria-czech

Amira Kohn-Trattner <amira.kt@...>
 

Searching for Heinz VERSTAENDIG (born in Vienna on December 18th 1931) son
of Adolf ALTSCHUL (his mother's name was Hedwig FISCHEL and father Emil
Altschul - he had a sister Jana). Adolf, born in Vienna 1910, lived in
Prague and Brno, arrived in Britain on December 2nd 1947 (was living at
45 Arundel Gardens London W.11). He gave his profession (to the JRC) as
'journalist'. I do not know why father and son had different last names.
They both registered with the JRC in London on the same day December 18th,
1947. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Another cousin of my mothers' (in addition to ALTSCHUL) was Otto KANTUREK.
He was the son of Hilda FISCHEL and a well known cinematographer who
worked with Fritz LANG. During the War he worked as a photojournalist in
Britain and flew between Dover and Calle when he was shot down. (photo of
the plane being shot down was published in LIFE magazine - I have not been
able to find it yet). I am searching for any information on Otto KANTUREK
or any survivors of his immediate family. He was married in Edmond (does
anyone know where that is?) and may have had children.

Thanks.
Amira Kohn-Trattner
New York, N.Y.

Re: Yiddish in Czech lands #austria-czech

Amira Kohn-Trattner <amira.kt@...>
 

Hello everyone,

Thanks for the comments about the "Prager Deitsch" - combination of
German, Yiddish and Hebrew spoken by Prague Jews before the War. I have
been collecting words, phrases and expression, for years. Each time I
speak with my Czech cousins, who live in Venezuela, they invariably say
something in this Prager Deitsch and I simply add it to the long list...

My mother who was born in Prague spoke Hoch Deutsch and spoke German with
my father (and me and my sister) who was born in Lucenec, Slovakia. They
of course spoke Czech, my father spoke Slovak and both of them spoke
several other languages. Yiddish was spoken in Eastern Slovakia and
Hebrew as well. My grandfather's private Hebrew teacher in Prague came
from Munkacz.
Here are some phrases in what my cousins call Prager Deitsch:

Er ist ein umtam odor ein leimech (he is a schlemazel)
Mieser baldover - not honorable, bad humor unpleasant person
petite macher - clever
schmonces (small,unimportant things)
machloike (differences)
Endlach - finally
chochmes = chochmes..(smarts)
menoovl - shrewd
mit eitziss versorgt - we have enough advice
die freit - die Freude (the joy)
haste kan lat machte kan lat (if you don't have a sorrow or a worry -
don't make one)
halevei eine stund danach - if it were only an hour afterwards (after the
dreaded event)

Also, the book Motche und Rezi was published in Czech (the names of the
characters are in Yiddish/Hebrew or Prager Deitsch). These are wonderful
humorous stories of Jews living in villages in the Czech lands. As far as
I know this book has not been translated into other languages.

Amira Kohn-Trattner
New York, N.Y.

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Re: Yiddish in Czech lands #austria-czech

Amira Kohn-Trattner <amira.kt@...>
 

Hello everyone,

Thanks for the comments about the "Prager Deitsch" - combination of
German, Yiddish and Hebrew spoken by Prague Jews before the War. I have
been collecting words, phrases and expression, for years. Each time I
speak with my Czech cousins, who live in Venezuela, they invariably say
something in this Prager Deitsch and I simply add it to the long list...

My mother who was born in Prague spoke Hoch Deutsch and spoke German with
my father (and me and my sister) who was born in Lucenec, Slovakia. They
of course spoke Czech, my father spoke Slovak and both of them spoke
several other languages. Yiddish was spoken in Eastern Slovakia and
Hebrew as well. My grandfather's private Hebrew teacher in Prague came
from Munkacz.
Here are some phrases in what my cousins call Prager Deitsch:

Er ist ein umtam odor ein leimech (he is a schlemazel)
Mieser baldover - not honorable, bad humor unpleasant person
petite macher - clever
schmonces (small,unimportant things)
machloike (differences)
Endlach - finally
chochmes = chochmes..(smarts)
menoovl - shrewd
mit eitziss versorgt - we have enough advice
die freit - die Freude (the joy)
haste kan lat machte kan lat (if you don't have a sorrow or a worry -
don't make one)
halevei eine stund danach - if it were only an hour afterwards (after the
dreaded event)

Also, the book Motche und Rezi was published in Czech (the names of the
characters are in Yiddish/Hebrew or Prager Deitsch). These are wonderful
humorous stories of Jews living in villages in the Czech lands. As far as
I know this book has not been translated into other languages.

Amira Kohn-Trattner
New York, N.Y.

Re: Viennese Hiking Song #austria-czech

robert fraser <robertandginafraser@...>
 

I hadn't overlooked that point - also the use of "kartoffel" for potatoes,
which is not Viennese useage. So,as Celia points out, the
song probably isn't "Viennese " or even of Austrian origin
(although my Parents were). And it certainly isn't a "Jewish" song

Shabbat shalom

Robert W Fraser
Dianella, Western Australia
robertandginafraser@...

-----Original Message-----
From: Celia Male [mailto:celiamale@...]
Sent: Friday, 18 February 2005 9:13 PM
To: austriaczech@...
Cc: robert fraser
Subject: Re: [austriaczech] Viennese Hiking Song

Robert Fraser >from Australia asks about a Viennese
hiking song: "hunger hunger, hunger, hunger -----
Marmelade ---- Schnitzel, Blumenkohlsalat und warme
Wuerstchen, Bratkartoffel, hunger hunger, hunger,
hunger"

The main point I would like to make is linguistic.
Linguistic matters are often important genealogical
clues and should never be ignored in our SIG.
This cannot be a Vienesse hiking song as no
self-respecting Viennese would use the Hochdeutsch
word Blumenkohl [cauliflower].

The Viennese word is Karfiol - derived >from the
Italian "Cavalfiore". Karfiolsuppe is one of my
favourites. I had never heard the word Blumenkohl till
I met some "real" Germans.

There were many French and Italian words used in
Viennese German. So we have a genealogical clue here:
Perhaps Robert's family were not >from Vienna, or
alternatively, they hiked with German friends who sang
the song?

Celia Male [UK]

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech RE: Viennese Hiking Song #austria-czech

robert fraser <robertandginafraser@...>
 

I hadn't overlooked that point - also the use of "kartoffel" for potatoes,
which is not Viennese useage. So,as Celia points out, the
song probably isn't "Viennese " or even of Austrian origin
(although my Parents were). And it certainly isn't a "Jewish" song

Shabbat shalom

Robert W Fraser
Dianella, Western Australia
robertandginafraser@...

-----Original Message-----
From: Celia Male [mailto:celiamale@...]
Sent: Friday, 18 February 2005 9:13 PM
To: austriaczech@...
Cc: robert fraser
Subject: Re: [austriaczech] Viennese Hiking Song

Robert Fraser >from Australia asks about a Viennese
hiking song: "hunger hunger, hunger, hunger -----
Marmelade ---- Schnitzel, Blumenkohlsalat und warme
Wuerstchen, Bratkartoffel, hunger hunger, hunger,
hunger"

The main point I would like to make is linguistic.
Linguistic matters are often important genealogical
clues and should never be ignored in our SIG.
This cannot be a Vienesse hiking song as no
self-respecting Viennese would use the Hochdeutsch
word Blumenkohl [cauliflower].

The Viennese word is Karfiol - derived >from the
Italian "Cavalfiore". Karfiolsuppe is one of my
favourites. I had never heard the word Blumenkohl till
I met some "real" Germans.

There were many French and Italian words used in
Viennese German. So we have a genealogical clue here:
Perhaps Robert's family were not >from Vienna, or
alternatively, they hiked with German friends who sang
the song?

Celia Male [UK]

Re: Fiedler book on Jewish monuments #austria-czech

Vitdoc@...
 

In a message dated 2/18/05 5:51:39 PM, jan@... writes:

<< A summary of data >from this book is now on the net - in Czech, but
translating machines have been invented
http://www.holocaust.cz/cz2/resources/jcom/jcom
>>

What is the actual name of this book?
Thanks Susan boyer LA CA

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Re: Fiedler book on Jewish monuments #austria-czech

Vitdoc@...
 

In a message dated 2/18/05 5:51:39 PM, jan@... writes:

<< A summary of data >from this book is now on the net - in Czech, but
translating machines have been invented
http://www.holocaust.cz/cz2/resources/jcom/jcom
>>

What is the actual name of this book?
Thanks Susan boyer LA CA

HIRSHHORN-Iasi,Romania any spelling OK #general

,
 

Hi,
I am researching my ggrandparents, Berel and Brune Zlate Hirshhorn >from Iasi
Romania. I have recently learned that my ggrandfather arrived in NY in 1884
(with his last name spelled Hirschersohn) on the State of Pennsylvania. His age
is given as 35,although on his marriage certificate he claims to have been
born in 1852. His occupation is miller.
He is definatly travelling with 2 other people (and possibly 3). The first
is an N. Hirschersohn who is 30 and a merchant. The next is listed as Hirsh
Horn and is a clerk. He is 16. The next person that is listed and, given what
they did to the 16 year olds name, that I think may also be part of the family
is Marcus (which would be Marcu in Romanian) Josef. His age is listed as 42.
He too is listed as a merchant.
Marcu (Mordechi )was the name of Berl's father.
Brune came on the Spain in 1886 with her children Gittel (Gussie) Marcu (Max-
my grandfather) and Sarah. The family originally settled on the Lower East
side. Brune and Berl had 2 more children Minne and Ettie. Eventually the
family settled in Brooklyn, where I have located them on all censuses except the
1900. On each census the name Hirshhorn was spelled differently!
I have checked the JGFF and have emailed some people that I thought might be
"family". I'm hoping that there's someone out, other than people who have
registered on JGFF, that recognize some of the details I have given as part of
their family history.
Carol Blumenthal Cohen
Brooklyn NY

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen HIRSHHORN-Iasi,Romania any spelling OK #general

,
 

Hi,
I am researching my ggrandparents, Berel and Brune Zlate Hirshhorn >from Iasi
Romania. I have recently learned that my ggrandfather arrived in NY in 1884
(with his last name spelled Hirschersohn) on the State of Pennsylvania. His age
is given as 35,although on his marriage certificate he claims to have been
born in 1852. His occupation is miller.
He is definatly travelling with 2 other people (and possibly 3). The first
is an N. Hirschersohn who is 30 and a merchant. The next is listed as Hirsh
Horn and is a clerk. He is 16. The next person that is listed and, given what
they did to the 16 year olds name, that I think may also be part of the family
is Marcus (which would be Marcu in Romanian) Josef. His age is listed as 42.
He too is listed as a merchant.
Marcu (Mordechi )was the name of Berl's father.
Brune came on the Spain in 1886 with her children Gittel (Gussie) Marcu (Max-
my grandfather) and Sarah. The family originally settled on the Lower East
side. Brune and Berl had 2 more children Minne and Ettie. Eventually the
family settled in Brooklyn, where I have located them on all censuses except the
1900. On each census the name Hirshhorn was spelled differently!
I have checked the JGFF and have emailed some people that I thought might be
"family". I'm hoping that there's someone out, other than people who have
registered on JGFF, that recognize some of the details I have given as part of
their family history.
Carol Blumenthal Cohen
Brooklyn NY

Translation request: Donor List 1930's Poland #general

Donna Rice
 

I have received a copy of a list of about 46 donors and the amount donated
to the Mayer Baal Haness Fund in 1930's Podhajce(Podgaytsy)Poland.It is only
one page. I believe it is in Hebrew, but it might be in Yiddish. When
translated, I will offer it to the group so that anyone researching that
area of Poland/Ukraine will have access to the information. Please reply
privately and I will send you the list.

Thanks in Advance.

Donna Rice

hurycane@...

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Translation request: Donor List 1930's Poland #general

Donna Rice
 

I have received a copy of a list of about 46 donors and the amount donated
to the Mayer Baal Haness Fund in 1930's Podhajce(Podgaytsy)Poland.It is only
one page. I believe it is in Hebrew, but it might be in Yiddish. When
translated, I will offer it to the group so that anyone researching that
area of Poland/Ukraine will have access to the information. Please reply
privately and I will send you the list.

Thanks in Advance.

Donna Rice

hurycane@...

Barranquilla- Colombia : DELVALLE DE GANS family #general

Van Wijngaarden <hvw79@...>
 

Good day to you all,
I am trying to find out more about my Sephardic family in Barranquilla in
Colombia. The name of the family is DELVALLE. This branch of our family came
from Curacao to Barranquilla in the 19th century.
One of them is Raquel DELVALLE DE GANS who is burried in Barranquilla in 21
November 1920 in the Sephardic Cemetery (Antiguo Cementerio Sefardi -
Cementerio Universal)
Raquel was born 24 February 1858 or 1859 according to the stone on her
grave. Two cousins of mine were in Barranquilla a few months ago and took a
photograph of her grave but had no time to find out more about Raquel.
I would like to get in touch with members of the DELVALLE or GANS family if
possible or someone in Barranquilla who can assist me to find out more or
direct me a bit in my search for DELVALLE

Sabath Salom

Rene van Wijngaarden

Familywebsite
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Creek/6534/

JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Barranquilla- Colombia : DELVALLE DE GANS family #general

Van Wijngaarden <hvw79@...>
 

Good day to you all,
I am trying to find out more about my Sephardic family in Barranquilla in
Colombia. The name of the family is DELVALLE. This branch of our family came
from Curacao to Barranquilla in the 19th century.
One of them is Raquel DELVALLE DE GANS who is burried in Barranquilla in 21
November 1920 in the Sephardic Cemetery (Antiguo Cementerio Sefardi -
Cementerio Universal)
Raquel was born 24 February 1858 or 1859 according to the stone on her
grave. Two cousins of mine were in Barranquilla a few months ago and took a
photograph of her grave but had no time to find out more about Raquel.
I would like to get in touch with members of the DELVALLE or GANS family if
possible or someone in Barranquilla who can assist me to find out more or
direct me a bit in my search for DELVALLE

Sabath Salom

Rene van Wijngaarden

Familywebsite
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Creek/6534/