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Re: Cape Town Beth Din #southafrica

saul@...
 

The Beth Din are not likely to have any more information than the burial
data, which came >from them in the first place. There are some registers at
the cemetery with basic info. There are said to be municipal burial
registers, but I have yet to hear of anyone accessing them.

It is worth trying to get a burial certificate and a death notice.

Much of the naturalisation info. is only available at the archives, in CT
Roeland Street.

if you do visit the cemetry only walk to the grave with a security guard,
do not go on your own.

Regards

Saul

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Cape Town Beth Din
From: "Michelle Essers" <essersfam@...>
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 21:29:37 +0300

I am planning a trip to CT and would like to get some genealogical
information while there. I am asking for advice on how to plan ahead
for this.

My family came >from Lithuania at the turn of the century.
I know my Kramer family (Solly, Pearl/Perske, chonke Meyer Kramer)
started in Maitland, then moved to Jhb. I have his naturalisation docs
and letters about moving to Jhb.
I know my Evian/Evens/Evans family also arrived in CT and moved to
Jhb. I have letters of natualization of one of these relatives in the
Cape. Other than that I have no documentation on the Evian/Evens/Evans
family until the next generation who lived in Jhb)

1. Death and grave information on someone (Nathan Evans) who died in
2000. Would the CT Beth Din have this information? If not, what
jewish organization would have this? there is a grave site on the
Chrylis/UCT site which may possibly be one of the people I am
researching. Would the beth din have more informtion than what is on
the UCT site?
2. If there is any information on immigration/naturalization around
the turn of 20 centuary until 1939 that is not on the UCT site, I
would like to follow up on this. (I do have all the info I can get
from the SA archives)
Any suggestions on how I can make this trip as productive as possible?
would a visit to the CT Beth Din and/or similar be likely to give me
any information?

Thanks

Michelle
South Africa SIG #SouthAfrica Re: Cape Town Beth Din #southafrica

saul@...
 

The Beth Din are not likely to have any more information than the burial
data, which came >from them in the first place. There are some registers at
the cemetery with basic info. There are said to be municipal burial
registers, but I have yet to hear of anyone accessing them.

It is worth trying to get a burial certificate and a death notice.

Much of the naturalisation info. is only available at the archives, in CT
Roeland Street.

if you do visit the cemetry only walk to the grave with a security guard,
do not go on your own.

Regards

Saul

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Cape Town Beth Din
From: "Michelle Essers" <essersfam@...>
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 21:29:37 +0300

I am planning a trip to CT and would like to get some genealogical
information while there. I am asking for advice on how to plan ahead
for this.

My family came >from Lithuania at the turn of the century.
I know my Kramer family (Solly, Pearl/Perske, chonke Meyer Kramer)
started in Maitland, then moved to Jhb. I have his naturalisation docs
and letters about moving to Jhb.
I know my Evian/Evens/Evans family also arrived in CT and moved to
Jhb. I have letters of natualization of one of these relatives in the
Cape. Other than that I have no documentation on the Evian/Evens/Evans
family until the next generation who lived in Jhb)

1. Death and grave information on someone (Nathan Evans) who died in
2000. Would the CT Beth Din have this information? If not, what
jewish organization would have this? there is a grave site on the
Chrylis/UCT site which may possibly be one of the people I am
researching. Would the beth din have more informtion than what is on
the UCT site?
2. If there is any information on immigration/naturalization around
the turn of 20 centuary until 1939 that is not on the UCT site, I
would like to follow up on this. (I do have all the info I can get
from the SA archives)
Any suggestions on how I can make this trip as productive as possible?
would a visit to the CT Beth Din and/or similar be likely to give me
any information?

Thanks

Michelle
Re: safrica digest: August 27, 2008 #southafrica

Stan Hart <stanhart@...>
 

Hi Michelle

Contacting the Beth Din in Cape Town will be an absolute waste of time as
far as trying to get information on funerals, graves etc >from them. This
area does not fall within their ambit of record keeping, they have other
areas of concern.
For information on graves in Cape Town, use the UCT site, or, visit the
cemeteries personally if you are going to be in Cape Town.

I have found the following information for you of those with names you are
researching, who are buried in Pinelands No. 2 cemetery in CT.
The headings for the columns are detailed below.

Site Surname First Names Died date Age Ref no. Region in SA
Listing

Section 8, Row EA, No. 229 EVANS Ellie 1989-09-12 77
10621 Cape Town Pinelands 2
Section 9, Row EA, No. 322 EVANS Nathan 1988-06-23 81
10355 Cape Town Pinelands 2
Section 9, Row EA, No. 321 EVANS Rebecca 1991-03-14 81
10924 Cape Town Pinelands 2

There are no Evian/Evens/Evans buried in Pinelands No. 1 cemetery, or any
other Cape Town cemeteries for which I have information.

If you need contact details for the Chevra Kadisha in Cape Town (who keep
records of all burials in the area), please contact me privately.

Hope this helps a little.

Regards

Stan Hart

-----Original Message-----
Subject: Cape Town Beth Din
From: "Michelle Essers" <essersfam@...>
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 21:29:37 +0300

I am planning a trip to CT and would like to get some genealogical
information while there. I am asking for advice on how to plan ahead
for this.

My family came >from Lithuania at the turn of the century.
I know my Kramer family (Solly, Pearl/Perske, chonke Meyer Kramer)
started in Maitland, then moved to Jhb. I have his naturalisation docs
and letters about moving to Jhb.
I know my Evian/Evens/Evans family also arrived in CT and moved to
Jhb. I have letters of natualization of one of these relatives in the
Cape. Other than that I have no documentation on the Evian/Evens/Evans
family until the next generation who lived in Jhb)

1. Death and grave information on someone (Nathan Evans) who died in
2000. Would the CT Beth Din have this information? If not, what
jewish organization would have this? there is a grave site on the
Chrylis/UCT site which may possibly be one of the people I am
researching. Would the beth din have more informtion than what is on
the UCT site?
2. If there is any information on immigration/naturalization around
the turn of 20 centuary until 1939 that is not on the UCT site, I
would like to follow up on this. (I do have all the info I can get
from the SA archives)
Any suggestions on how I can make this trip as productive as possible?
would a visit to the CT Beth Din and/or similar be likely to give me
any information?

Thanks

Michelle
Cape Town Beth Din #southafrica

balden <balden@...>
 

I am sending this message in particular about the Cape Town Beth Din
as I do not know about the others, for those who are perhaps going to CT
for the Chagim and want to do Genealogy work..

Cape Town Beth Din do not do any Genealogy work nor will they help
out much. They will however supply one with a Security person to be
at the Cemetery at the specific time that one wants to be there.
So before going to the Cemetery to do Genealogy look-ups please phone
them for this service - it is a "must" in Cape Town for Security reasons.

For their phone no. please contact me privately.

Beryl Baleson
balden@...
South Africa SIG #SouthAfrica RE: safrica digest: August 27, 2008 #southafrica

Stan Hart <stanhart@...>
 

Hi Michelle

Contacting the Beth Din in Cape Town will be an absolute waste of time as
far as trying to get information on funerals, graves etc >from them. This
area does not fall within their ambit of record keeping, they have other
areas of concern.
For information on graves in Cape Town, use the UCT site, or, visit the
cemeteries personally if you are going to be in Cape Town.

I have found the following information for you of those with names you are
researching, who are buried in Pinelands No. 2 cemetery in CT.
The headings for the columns are detailed below.

Site Surname First Names Died date Age Ref no. Region in SA
Listing

Section 8, Row EA, No. 229 EVANS Ellie 1989-09-12 77
10621 Cape Town Pinelands 2
Section 9, Row EA, No. 322 EVANS Nathan 1988-06-23 81
10355 Cape Town Pinelands 2
Section 9, Row EA, No. 321 EVANS Rebecca 1991-03-14 81
10924 Cape Town Pinelands 2

There are no Evian/Evens/Evans buried in Pinelands No. 1 cemetery, or any
other Cape Town cemeteries for which I have information.

If you need contact details for the Chevra Kadisha in Cape Town (who keep
records of all burials in the area), please contact me privately.

Hope this helps a little.

Regards

Stan Hart

-----Original Message-----
Subject: Cape Town Beth Din
From: "Michelle Essers" <essersfam@...>
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 21:29:37 +0300

I am planning a trip to CT and would like to get some genealogical
information while there. I am asking for advice on how to plan ahead
for this.

My family came >from Lithuania at the turn of the century.
I know my Kramer family (Solly, Pearl/Perske, chonke Meyer Kramer)
started in Maitland, then moved to Jhb. I have his naturalisation docs
and letters about moving to Jhb.
I know my Evian/Evens/Evans family also arrived in CT and moved to
Jhb. I have letters of natualization of one of these relatives in the
Cape. Other than that I have no documentation on the Evian/Evens/Evans
family until the next generation who lived in Jhb)

1. Death and grave information on someone (Nathan Evans) who died in
2000. Would the CT Beth Din have this information? If not, what
jewish organization would have this? there is a grave site on the
Chrylis/UCT site which may possibly be one of the people I am
researching. Would the beth din have more informtion than what is on
the UCT site?
2. If there is any information on immigration/naturalization around
the turn of 20 centuary until 1939 that is not on the UCT site, I
would like to follow up on this. (I do have all the info I can get
from the SA archives)
Any suggestions on how I can make this trip as productive as possible?
would a visit to the CT Beth Din and/or similar be likely to give me
any information?

Thanks

Michelle
South Africa SIG #SouthAfrica Cape Town Beth Din #southafrica

balden <balden@...>
 

I am sending this message in particular about the Cape Town Beth Din
as I do not know about the others, for those who are perhaps going to CT
for the Chagim and want to do Genealogy work..

Cape Town Beth Din do not do any Genealogy work nor will they help
out much. They will however supply one with a Security person to be
at the Cemetery at the specific time that one wants to be there.
So before going to the Cemetery to do Genealogy look-ups please phone
them for this service - it is a "must" in Cape Town for Security reasons.

For their phone no. please contact me privately.

Beryl Baleson
balden@...
Re: Fancy/ornate German Handwriting #austria-czech

Lilot Moorman <lilot@...>
 

Could not open the waldenfont link.

Lilot Moorman
Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Re: Fancy/ornate German Handwriting #austria-czech

Lilot Moorman <lilot@...>
 

Could not open the waldenfont link.

Lilot Moorman
Re: Fancy/Ornate German handwriting #austria-czech

Wegner, Peter
 

Re Celia Male's reference to the German "Kurrent" handwriting -- this is a German script in which,
unfortunately many letters look very much alike (try writing the word "meinem" in it) making it almost
illegible at times (especially when the writer neglects to dot the "i"s.

I was interested to learn that it was called Kurrent." This is obviously the German equivalent of the
English use of the word "cursive" to describe the "flowing" style of "grown-up" handwriting in which
(unlike children's printing) the letters are all joined together. Both Kurrent and cursive obviously come
from the Latin verb currere, which means to "run" or "flow" like water, without stopping.
Judith Romney Wegner
jrw@...
Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech RE: Fancy/Ornate German handwriting #austria-czech

Wegner, Peter
 

Re Celia Male's reference to the German "Kurrent" handwriting -- this is a German script in which,
unfortunately many letters look very much alike (try writing the word "meinem" in it) making it almost
illegible at times (especially when the writer neglects to dot the "i"s.

I was interested to learn that it was called Kurrent." This is obviously the German equivalent of the
English use of the word "cursive" to describe the "flowing" style of "grown-up" handwriting in which
(unlike children's printing) the letters are all joined together. Both Kurrent and cursive obviously come
from the Latin verb currere, which means to "run" or "flow" like water, without stopping.
Judith Romney Wegner
jrw@...
Tracing your Roots - BBC radio: Bohemia and Vienna>UK #austria-czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

The second programme of this BBC Radio series broadcast at
lunch time today {27 Aug 2008] was concerned with Jewish immigration
into the UK. I was most surprised to hear that three of the "cases"
were of descendants of families >from Bohemia and Vienna
- RABL; MAUSINGER/MALSINGER; HUTTMANN.

As this was radio, it was not possible to check the spelling.

I have checked RABL and they can be found as a single family in
the 1793 census of Bohemia [Tabaktrafikant] in Kardasch Retschitz,
Tabor Kreis [Vol III p 346]. The UK descendant {Nick Radcliffe/
Ratcliffe?] never knew his father, who died when he was a baby.

The other case concerned a MALSINGER/MAUSINGER family who were
catholics >from Bohemia but it was assumed they were Jewish. I have
not found them in the 1793 census and I think they may be barking
up the wrong tree.

Finally, there was the granddaughter of a Kindertransport family - HUTTMANN/HUTTMAN >from Vienna. Her grandparents perished and all
her uncles and aunts subsequently dispersed around the world.
I have noted three HUTTMAN{N} on Yad Vashem and on Doew.

You have only one week to listen >from today on Listen Again
- don't miss it. Alphabetical listing - go to *T*

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/progs/listenagain.shtml

or to:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/tracingyourroots.shtml

Sadly, no-one mentioned the Austria-Czech SIG, where we could have
given a lot of help!

Celia Male - London, U.K.
Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Tracing your Roots - BBC radio: Bohemia and Vienna>UK #austria-czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

The second programme of this BBC Radio series broadcast at
lunch time today {27 Aug 2008] was concerned with Jewish immigration
into the UK. I was most surprised to hear that three of the "cases"
were of descendants of families >from Bohemia and Vienna
- RABL; MAUSINGER/MALSINGER; HUTTMANN.

As this was radio, it was not possible to check the spelling.

I have checked RABL and they can be found as a single family in
the 1793 census of Bohemia [Tabaktrafikant] in Kardasch Retschitz,
Tabor Kreis [Vol III p 346]. The UK descendant {Nick Radcliffe/
Ratcliffe?] never knew his father, who died when he was a baby.

The other case concerned a MALSINGER/MAUSINGER family who were
catholics >from Bohemia but it was assumed they were Jewish. I have
not found them in the 1793 census and I think they may be barking
up the wrong tree.

Finally, there was the granddaughter of a Kindertransport family - HUTTMANN/HUTTMAN >from Vienna. Her grandparents perished and all
her uncles and aunts subsequently dispersed around the world.
I have noted three HUTTMAN{N} on Yad Vashem and on Doew.

You have only one week to listen >from today on Listen Again
- don't miss it. Alphabetical listing - go to *T*

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/progs/listenagain.shtml

or to:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/tracingyourroots.shtml

Sadly, no-one mentioned the Austria-Czech SIG, where we could have
given a lot of help!

Celia Male - London, U.K.
Interesting Quirk in Prague Police Conscription DataBase #austria-czech

Paul King
 

The Prague Police Conscription site (1850-1914):
http://digi.nacr.cz/prihlasky2/indexen.php

allows for the entry of three variables in finding information about a
person or family. These variables are:
1) surname
2) first name
3) year of birth

To my great surprise, after not disclosing expected relatives when I entered
the surname, I discovered that by entering a first name and a date of birth
only, the family data appeared. Not only did one family record appear once;
it had three separate records, and each record had some varying data. The
differences in records were grounded in different time frames, so that one
record was dated 1865 only, another updated to 1893 >from 1856 and a third
1895 only.

Thus, one record indicates when the family first arrived in Prague (1856 - 9
days after their wedding in Tabor). On occasion, there are very perplexing
entries. For example, the first two children are given as being born in 1859
and 1860 in one record; the second and third record have them born in the
same year (1859) and state specifically that they were twins. One record
has a daughter, previously unknown to me; her single appearance suggests
that she died soon after birth, but the interpretation is not so simple. One
of the twin girls who also may have died shortly after birth in 1859, is not
with the family in the 1871 Canadian census, appears in the 1865 record and
in the 1893 record, but not in the 1895 record. I can explain this, however,
on the basis that the 1856-1893 record is cumulative. Therefore, one of the
twins died between 1865 and 1870 when the family arrived in Canada.

It is clear that one requires birth data to turn up these "hidden" records
which do not appear when only a surname is entered, the birthdate usually
being the very data that one is searching for!

Every clerk got the mother's name inscribed wrongly: Gelbe, Galla, and
Jetta. The last is acceptable since J substitutes for Y. Of course, by
inserting any of these first names, only ONE record appears. My Prague
genealogist of a few years back provided Gella. This spelling draws a blank.
Fortunately, the husband's name was consistently spelled correctly (although
there could always be more records if there is a mispelling of the husband's
first name). All three records have one particular son born in Prague, but
he was born in Canada.

I can't account for the quirk. It may be solved by understanding how the
multiple records were initiated - two of the three records are one-year
dates, the third record cumulative dates - but I bring the matter of
"hidden" records to the attention of those may want to try again if they
have not entered this combination of variables (first name and year of
birth). Multiple records based on the same framework, when found, give
considerable dynamic to your genealogical investigations.

Paul King
Jerusalem
Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Interesting Quirk in Prague Police Conscription DataBase #austria-czech

Paul King
 

The Prague Police Conscription site (1850-1914):
http://digi.nacr.cz/prihlasky2/indexen.php

allows for the entry of three variables in finding information about a
person or family. These variables are:
1) surname
2) first name
3) year of birth

To my great surprise, after not disclosing expected relatives when I entered
the surname, I discovered that by entering a first name and a date of birth
only, the family data appeared. Not only did one family record appear once;
it had three separate records, and each record had some varying data. The
differences in records were grounded in different time frames, so that one
record was dated 1865 only, another updated to 1893 >from 1856 and a third
1895 only.

Thus, one record indicates when the family first arrived in Prague (1856 - 9
days after their wedding in Tabor). On occasion, there are very perplexing
entries. For example, the first two children are given as being born in 1859
and 1860 in one record; the second and third record have them born in the
same year (1859) and state specifically that they were twins. One record
has a daughter, previously unknown to me; her single appearance suggests
that she died soon after birth, but the interpretation is not so simple. One
of the twin girls who also may have died shortly after birth in 1859, is not
with the family in the 1871 Canadian census, appears in the 1865 record and
in the 1893 record, but not in the 1895 record. I can explain this, however,
on the basis that the 1856-1893 record is cumulative. Therefore, one of the
twins died between 1865 and 1870 when the family arrived in Canada.

It is clear that one requires birth data to turn up these "hidden" records
which do not appear when only a surname is entered, the birthdate usually
being the very data that one is searching for!

Every clerk got the mother's name inscribed wrongly: Gelbe, Galla, and
Jetta. The last is acceptable since J substitutes for Y. Of course, by
inserting any of these first names, only ONE record appears. My Prague
genealogist of a few years back provided Gella. This spelling draws a blank.
Fortunately, the husband's name was consistently spelled correctly (although
there could always be more records if there is a mispelling of the husband's
first name). All three records have one particular son born in Prague, but
he was born in Canada.

I can't account for the quirk. It may be solved by understanding how the
multiple records were initiated - two of the three records are one-year
dates, the third record cumulative dates - but I bring the matter of
"hidden" records to the attention of those may want to try again if they
have not entered this combination of variables (first name and year of
birth). Multiple records based on the same framework, when found, give
considerable dynamic to your genealogical investigations.

Paul King
Jerusalem
Warren Blatt speaker at JGS Conejo Valley and Ventura County #general

jan meisels allen <janmallen@...>
 

Meeting: Jewish Genealogical Society of the Conejo Valley and
Ventura County (JGSCV)

Program: Warren Blatt: "Jewish Surnames"
The history of Jewish surnames - their origins, types, and etymologies.
and The Klutzmer Band playing Eastern European Music to celebrate our third
anniversary!

The meeting is co-sponsored with and held at Temple Adat Elohim,
2420 E Hillcrest Drive, Thousand Oaks, CA

Sunday, September 7, 2008 1:30-3:30 PM ***Note Earlier Start Time***

No charge to attend the meeting.

For more information regarding the meeting, including directions to the location,
please visit our website, www.JGSCV.org

Jan Meisels Allen
President, JGSCV
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Warren Blatt speaker at JGS Conejo Valley and Ventura County #general

jan meisels allen <janmallen@...>
 

Meeting: Jewish Genealogical Society of the Conejo Valley and
Ventura County (JGSCV)

Program: Warren Blatt: "Jewish Surnames"
The history of Jewish surnames - their origins, types, and etymologies.
and The Klutzmer Band playing Eastern European Music to celebrate our third
anniversary!

The meeting is co-sponsored with and held at Temple Adat Elohim,
2420 E Hillcrest Drive, Thousand Oaks, CA

Sunday, September 7, 2008 1:30-3:30 PM ***Note Earlier Start Time***

No charge to attend the meeting.

For more information regarding the meeting, including directions to the location,
please visit our website, www.JGSCV.org

Jan Meisels Allen
President, JGSCV
Re: Sephardic roots or Nusach Sefard? #sephardic

Yehudh bn Shlmo
 

Boker Tov,

--- On Wed, 8/27/08, Elan Caspi <elanc@...> wrote:
I'm getting a headache >from seeing everyone write
"Sefard". There is no such word. The Hebrew word for Spain is
Sfarad, or if you want to invoke the Sfaradic pronounciation it is
Sefarad.
I think you are going to have to get use to this English
transliteration of the word. At least as long as you are
living in a country where English is the primary language.
Both the OU and RCA make constant reference to Sefard, even
when referring to Chief Rabbi Shlomo Amar. As well as all
the Artscroll Siddurim and Machzorim.

My name is spelled Yehudah and should end with an "h"
for obvious reasons. However, it is commonly written Yehuda
as well, which to me is diminishing, but I don't lose sleep
over it.

Shalom Shalom,
Yehudah ben Shlomo
Sephardic SIG #Sephardim Re: Sephardic roots or Nusach Sefard? #sephardic

Yehudh bn Shlmo
 

Boker Tov,

--- On Wed, 8/27/08, Elan Caspi <elanc@...> wrote:
I'm getting a headache >from seeing everyone write
"Sefard". There is no such word. The Hebrew word for Spain is
Sfarad, or if you want to invoke the Sfaradic pronounciation it is
Sefarad.
I think you are going to have to get use to this English
transliteration of the word. At least as long as you are
living in a country where English is the primary language.
Both the OU and RCA make constant reference to Sefard, even
when referring to Chief Rabbi Shlomo Amar. As well as all
the Artscroll Siddurim and Machzorim.

My name is spelled Yehudah and should end with an "h"
for obvious reasons. However, it is commonly written Yehuda
as well, which to me is diminishing, but I don't lose sleep
over it.

Shalom Shalom,
Yehudah ben Shlomo
Pronunciation. Was: Re: Sephardic roots or Nusach Sefard? #sephardic

Sue Clamp <clamp@...>
 

This summer I heard someone in Spain pronounce it 'Shefarad', while
reading aloud the word written as 'Sefarad' (referring to the title of a
book by Maria Antonia Bel Bravo). Is this a correct or incorrect
pronunciation?

Sue Clamp
Cambridgeshire, UK

Elan Caspi wrote:

I'm getting a headache >from seeing everyone write "Sefard".
There is no such word. The Hebrew word for Spain is Sfarad,
or if you want to invoke the Sfaradic pronounciation it is
Sefarad.
Sephardic SIG #Sephardim Pronunciation. Was: Re: Sephardic roots or Nusach Sefard? #sephardic

Sue Clamp <clamp@...>
 

This summer I heard someone in Spain pronounce it 'Shefarad', while
reading aloud the word written as 'Sefarad' (referring to the title of a
book by Maria Antonia Bel Bravo). Is this a correct or incorrect
pronunciation?

Sue Clamp
Cambridgeshire, UK

Elan Caspi wrote:

I'm getting a headache >from seeing everyone write "Sefard".
There is no such word. The Hebrew word for Spain is Sfarad,
or if you want to invoke the Sfaradic pronounciation it is
Sefarad.
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