Date   

Mindl: Hebrew or Yiddish #general

Theo Travis / Madelyn Cohen <travis@...>
 

Being given Yiddish rather than Hebrew names doesn't just hold true for
Yiddish-speaking communities in Eastern Europe. My Yiddish name is Mindel -
named after my great-uncle Mendel - and I was never given a Hebrew name,
despite being born in the United States in the 1960s. I was given the name
Mindel Yinta in a naming ceremony at an Orthodox synagogue and married with
the same name in a Conservative one. At no time along the way did anyone
suggest I could take a Hebrew name of my choosing - although I wish they
had!

Madelyn Travis
travis@travis33.demon.co.uk


Re: Black Dutch and TENNISON, TENNESEN or TENNYSON families #general

Ann Rabinowitz <annrab@...>
 

The referral to "Black Dutch" ancestry might or might not necessarily mean
the family had Jewish roots as supposed by Mr. Tennyson. According to
several sources in the JewishGen Archives and those I remember >from an
extensive discussion of this topic on the now defunct Prodigy Classic
genealogy board, there were various groups who fit into the "Black Dutch"
category.

I would suggest that Mr. Tennyson do the following:

Search the JewishGen Archives under "Black Dutch". In particular,
look at the messages >from Dr. Saul Issroff, Miller Taylor and Bert Van
Komen.

Check the sources produced by Peter Wilson Coldham regarding emigration to
America such as: The Complete Book of Emigrants, in four volumes
(1607-1660, 1661-1699, 1700-1750, 1751-1776), The Complete Book of Emigrants
in Bondage, 1614-1775, Emigrants >from England to the American Colonies,
1773-1776, Child
Apprentices in America, >from Christ's Hospital, London, 1617-1778, English
Estates of American Colonists, and English Adventurers and Emigrants.

Other available sources for this period are the following:

"The Complete Book of Emigrants in Bondage, 1614-1775", by Peter Coldham
Wilson, which does not have any TENNISON, TENNESEN, or TENNYSON family
listed.

"First American Jewish Families, 600 Genealogies, 1654-1988", by Rabbi
Malcolm H. Stern, which does not have any TENNISON, TENNESEN or TENNYSON or
for that matter any BAUDER or BADER families.

There does not appear to be enough information for Mr. Tennyson to make the
assumption that his family has any real Jewish roots at the present time.
The family lore may refer to another ethnic basis for "Black Dutch"
ancestry. If there are arrival records for his family in America, he can
then take this information and go back in time to the England records and do
further sleuthing there. This might lead him to made a more definitive
conclusion about his family origins. It may also be that if there is a
so-called "Jewish" connection, it may be too far back (several hundred
years) to trace through existing records.

Ann Rabinowitz
annrab@bellsouth.net


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Mindl: Hebrew or Yiddish #general

Theo Travis / Madelyn Cohen <travis@...>
 

Being given Yiddish rather than Hebrew names doesn't just hold true for
Yiddish-speaking communities in Eastern Europe. My Yiddish name is Mindel -
named after my great-uncle Mendel - and I was never given a Hebrew name,
despite being born in the United States in the 1960s. I was given the name
Mindel Yinta in a naming ceremony at an Orthodox synagogue and married with
the same name in a Conservative one. At no time along the way did anyone
suggest I could take a Hebrew name of my choosing - although I wish they
had!

Madelyn Travis
travis@travis33.demon.co.uk


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen RE: Black Dutch and TENNISON, TENNESEN or TENNYSON families #general

Ann Rabinowitz <annrab@...>
 

The referral to "Black Dutch" ancestry might or might not necessarily mean
the family had Jewish roots as supposed by Mr. Tennyson. According to
several sources in the JewishGen Archives and those I remember >from an
extensive discussion of this topic on the now defunct Prodigy Classic
genealogy board, there were various groups who fit into the "Black Dutch"
category.

I would suggest that Mr. Tennyson do the following:

Search the JewishGen Archives under "Black Dutch". In particular,
look at the messages >from Dr. Saul Issroff, Miller Taylor and Bert Van
Komen.

Check the sources produced by Peter Wilson Coldham regarding emigration to
America such as: The Complete Book of Emigrants, in four volumes
(1607-1660, 1661-1699, 1700-1750, 1751-1776), The Complete Book of Emigrants
in Bondage, 1614-1775, Emigrants >from England to the American Colonies,
1773-1776, Child
Apprentices in America, >from Christ's Hospital, London, 1617-1778, English
Estates of American Colonists, and English Adventurers and Emigrants.

Other available sources for this period are the following:

"The Complete Book of Emigrants in Bondage, 1614-1775", by Peter Coldham
Wilson, which does not have any TENNISON, TENNESEN, or TENNYSON family
listed.

"First American Jewish Families, 600 Genealogies, 1654-1988", by Rabbi
Malcolm H. Stern, which does not have any TENNISON, TENNESEN or TENNYSON or
for that matter any BAUDER or BADER families.

There does not appear to be enough information for Mr. Tennyson to make the
assumption that his family has any real Jewish roots at the present time.
The family lore may refer to another ethnic basis for "Black Dutch"
ancestry. If there are arrival records for his family in America, he can
then take this information and go back in time to the England records and do
further sleuthing there. This might lead him to made a more definitive
conclusion about his family origins. It may also be that if there is a
so-called "Jewish" connection, it may be too far back (several hundred
years) to trace through existing records.

Ann Rabinowitz
annrab@bellsouth.net


Budapest death records #hungary

korman3 <korman3@...>
 

The biggest hurdle for post 1895 vital records is that you have to know
the district of Budapest where the event occurred. My suggestion would
be to get in touch with the keepers of the cemetery databases - either
the Hungarian museum in Israel or the Jewish Community center in
Budapest. Find out if they have a listing for the burial to get an exact
date and any other information. I found that the index card records from
the big cemetery often has listed the district in which the death
occurred. With the date and district, a copy of the record should be
easy to obtain via a request to the Hungarian embassy, for about $30. I
have gone through this procedure at least twice with success.

Debbi Korman


Hungary SIG #Hungary Budapest death records #hungary

korman3 <korman3@...>
 

The biggest hurdle for post 1895 vital records is that you have to know
the district of Budapest where the event occurred. My suggestion would
be to get in touch with the keepers of the cemetery databases - either
the Hungarian museum in Israel or the Jewish Community center in
Budapest. Find out if they have a listing for the burial to get an exact
date and any other information. I found that the index card records from
the big cemetery often has listed the district in which the death
occurred. With the date and district, a copy of the record should be
easy to obtain via a request to the Hungarian embassy, for about $30. I
have gone through this procedure at least twice with success.

Debbi Korman


Answer from Kriegsarchiv, Vienna #hungary

Margarita Lacko <uzidog@...>
 

Dear H-siggers,

Following an inquiry I made to the Kriegsarchiv, I just got a letter
from the Osterreichisches Staatsarchiv.
My German is kind of rusty but with the help of some dictionaries I
understand that my great-grandfather's name is too common. I guess
that only knowing that he was in the army, was not enough information.

This is the text of the letter:
"Zur Ihrer Anfrage teilt das Kriegsarchiv mit, das durch die
Haufigkeit des Namens Josef LEICHT ohne genaue Geburtsdaten und der
Heimatzustandigkeit hier keine ordnungsgemase Nachforschung betrieben
werden kann."

Some background information:
I only know that my great-grandfather, Josef LEICHT, was born in
Austria. He was probably a business man, trading with grains. In about
1870/1880 he was stationed in the region of Csallokoz (between
Bratislava and Komarno) Slovakia. He was a sergeant in charge of the
food supply. He married Jenny WEISS (or WEISZ) who was born in
Dunajska Streda (no dates yet). Their first son was Joszef Jeno (my
grandfather), born in 1894 in Csecseny Patony, Slovakia. The rest of
the kids were born in Dunajska Streda (was Dunaszerdahely), Slovakia.
At some point, my g-grandparents moved to Gyor where two of their
daughters were living. Most of them perished in the Holocaust.

Is there a way to obtain a birth certificate >from Csecseny Patony? I
did not try to find how to do this before because I'm still not sure
of my grandfather's first name. It is kind of strange that father and
son were named Joszef. I knew my grandfather as Jeno. The "Joszef" I
found in a copy of a birth certificate of my father's sister.

Thank you,

Margarita Lack=F3
Mile High City
uzidog@post1.com
uzidog@mindspring.com


Hungary SIG #Hungary Answer from Kriegsarchiv, Vienna #hungary

Margarita Lacko <uzidog@...>
 

Dear H-siggers,

Following an inquiry I made to the Kriegsarchiv, I just got a letter
from the Osterreichisches Staatsarchiv.
My German is kind of rusty but with the help of some dictionaries I
understand that my great-grandfather's name is too common. I guess
that only knowing that he was in the army, was not enough information.

This is the text of the letter:
"Zur Ihrer Anfrage teilt das Kriegsarchiv mit, das durch die
Haufigkeit des Namens Josef LEICHT ohne genaue Geburtsdaten und der
Heimatzustandigkeit hier keine ordnungsgemase Nachforschung betrieben
werden kann."

Some background information:
I only know that my great-grandfather, Josef LEICHT, was born in
Austria. He was probably a business man, trading with grains. In about
1870/1880 he was stationed in the region of Csallokoz (between
Bratislava and Komarno) Slovakia. He was a sergeant in charge of the
food supply. He married Jenny WEISS (or WEISZ) who was born in
Dunajska Streda (no dates yet). Their first son was Joszef Jeno (my
grandfather), born in 1894 in Csecseny Patony, Slovakia. The rest of
the kids were born in Dunajska Streda (was Dunaszerdahely), Slovakia.
At some point, my g-grandparents moved to Gyor where two of their
daughters were living. Most of them perished in the Holocaust.

Is there a way to obtain a birth certificate >from Csecseny Patony? I
did not try to find how to do this before because I'm still not sure
of my grandfather's first name. It is kind of strange that father and
son were named Joszef. I knew my grandfather as Jeno. The "Joszef" I
found in a copy of a birth certificate of my father's sister.

Thank you,

Margarita Lack=F3
Mile High City
uzidog@post1.com
uzidog@mindspring.com


Dr. Gyemant #hungary

Momteller@...
 

In a message dated 4/7/2000 11:45:56 PM Central Daylight Time,
h-sig@lyris.jewishgen.org writes:

<< Romania is a closed shop for family researchers. Only authorized Romanian
nationals have been allowed to do work in the archives. There may be a
monopoly for doing Jewish research in Romania. If so, this might explain the
persistent rumours I keep hearing about Dr. Gyemant, and his research
organization (Jewishgen rules do not allow recommendations or promotions for
any professional researcher or product).LS >>

I too have used Dr. Gyemant for Romanian (Hungarian) research and the bill
was hefty. I did get lots and lots of names but to tell you the truth I ,
and he , are not even sure if they are related or how. He was willing to try
and help with conjectures but I never got back to him as I didn't have the
time. Looking at the list he sent really didn't help too much. Two people,
my great-great-grandfather and his son (my g-grandfather) have the same
names!!! Can anyone explain this? It is even on the photo we have of his
gravestone ("Yisrael son of Yisrael"). In English my g-grandfather's name
was Isadore. This made for conflusing lists >from Dr. Gyemant.

Susan Stone
Evanston, IL


Hungary SIG #Hungary Dr. Gyemant #hungary

Momteller@...
 

In a message dated 4/7/2000 11:45:56 PM Central Daylight Time,
h-sig@lyris.jewishgen.org writes:

<< Romania is a closed shop for family researchers. Only authorized Romanian
nationals have been allowed to do work in the archives. There may be a
monopoly for doing Jewish research in Romania. If so, this might explain the
persistent rumours I keep hearing about Dr. Gyemant, and his research
organization (Jewishgen rules do not allow recommendations or promotions for
any professional researcher or product).LS >>

I too have used Dr. Gyemant for Romanian (Hungarian) research and the bill
was hefty. I did get lots and lots of names but to tell you the truth I ,
and he , are not even sure if they are related or how. He was willing to try
and help with conjectures but I never got back to him as I didn't have the
time. Looking at the list he sent really didn't help too much. Two people,
my great-great-grandfather and his son (my g-grandfather) have the same
names!!! Can anyone explain this? It is even on the photo we have of his
gravestone ("Yisrael son of Yisrael"). In English my g-grandfather's name
was Isadore. This made for conflusing lists >from Dr. Gyemant.

Susan Stone
Evanston, IL


Re: Dr Gyemant #hungary

cohentalk@...
 

I am in the process of dealing with Dr Gyemant. It is not the best
experience I've had. Be careful! I requested records of my
grandfather's family. I specified 10 birth and one marriage record for KATZ.
Without sending me prior notice or an estimate for records
found, he sent 66 Katz records for every Katz he could find. I have
sent him a return letter to explain that I will pay for the records that
are probably my Katz family but not for the unrelated ones.

Doing a Katz search in Europe is like doing a Smith search in the USA
and I believe Dr Gyemant was trying to take advantage of me. The
problem is that he could be the only researcher in Romania and his work
is good. But like I said ---be careful!

Regards,
Linda Cohen
Michigan


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Dr Gyemant #hungary

cohentalk@...
 

I am in the process of dealing with Dr Gyemant. It is not the best
experience I've had. Be careful! I requested records of my
grandfather's family. I specified 10 birth and one marriage record for KATZ.
Without sending me prior notice or an estimate for records
found, he sent 66 Katz records for every Katz he could find. I have
sent him a return letter to explain that I will pay for the records that
are probably my Katz family but not for the unrelated ones.

Doing a Katz search in Europe is like doing a Smith search in the USA
and I believe Dr Gyemant was trying to take advantage of me. The
problem is that he could be the only researcher in Romania and his work
is good. But like I said ---be careful!

Regards,
Linda Cohen
Michigan


Moishe Nenetz from Lukanyenyi #hungary

Gondwana Gardens (David Deutsch) <dd@...>
 

I have a long-shot question. . .

I have a maternal ancestor who went by the name of Moishe Nenetz from
Lukanyenyi. The spellings are as close to the approximation of Hungarian
as I am able, but for English phonetics, it would sound something like
"NE-nets" and "LOOK-a-niay-niy"


He died just before the outbreak of World War One as an old man. His
year of birth is unknown to me.

Anyone know of this individual?

Thanks,


David Deutsch


Hungary SIG #Hungary Moishe Nenetz from Lukanyenyi #hungary

Gondwana Gardens (David Deutsch) <dd@...>
 

I have a long-shot question. . .

I have a maternal ancestor who went by the name of Moishe Nenetz from
Lukanyenyi. The spellings are as close to the approximation of Hungarian
as I am able, but for English phonetics, it would sound something like
"NE-nets" and "LOOK-a-niay-niy"


He died just before the outbreak of World War One as an old man. His
year of birth is unknown to me.

Anyone know of this individual?

Thanks,


David Deutsch


History of Belarussian Jewry #belarus

Andrew N Schwartz <andys@...>
 

Here is a link to a site on the subject of the history of Belarussian Jewry.

http://beljewhist.virtualave.net/

This site was developed by Alex El Friedman, a fourth year student at the
Belarussian state University in the historical department. His
specialization is the history of Belarus, and his research interest is the
history of Jews in Eastern Europe.

... Andy


Belarus SIG #Belarus History of Belarussian Jewry #belarus

Andrew N Schwartz <andys@...>
 

Here is a link to a site on the subject of the history of Belarussian Jewry.

http://beljewhist.virtualave.net/

This site was developed by Alex El Friedman, a fourth year student at the
Belarussian state University in the historical department. His
specialization is the history of Belarus, and his research interest is the
history of Jews in Eastern Europe.

... Andy


Correction re Sandler #belarus

Judith Kunofsky <kunofsky@...>
 

Correction:

On March 24 I posted a message that included the following:

"Sandler is one of the matronymic surnames: Sandler (or Shandler, Shandlin,
etc.) means "descendent of Shayndl", just as "Rivkin" means "descendent of
Rivka", "Dvorkin" means "descendent of Dvora" etc. People with these
surnames won't necessarily be related, as the female names were quite
common."

My husband, Mitchell Shandling, an amateur linguist, has since told me he
doesn't believe Sandler/Shandler are the same as the matronymic names
Shandlin/Shandling. All the ones that are clearly matronymic end in "-ing"
(Shandling) or "-in" (Dworkin, Rivkin, Malkin).

"Sandler" would, in Yiddish, mean a sandal maker (not a shoemaker, which is
Shuster).

I hope the useful information I posted re matronymics makes up for the
(possibly) incorrect information I posted on Sandler/Shandler!

Judy

-- Judy Kunofsky
-- Berkeley, California


Vsia Rossiia #belarus

TGart7777@...
 

I would like to recognize the contribution of Vladimir Golynskiy to the Vsia
Rossiia database which was recently updated on JewishGen. Vladimir kindly
contributed translated material, his name was inadvertently omitted >from the
updated introduction. I apologize to Vlaidimir and thank him for his
cotribution.

Tom Gartman
TGart7777@aol.com


Belarus SIG #Belarus Correction re Sandler #belarus

Judith Kunofsky <kunofsky@...>
 

Correction:

On March 24 I posted a message that included the following:

"Sandler is one of the matronymic surnames: Sandler (or Shandler, Shandlin,
etc.) means "descendent of Shayndl", just as "Rivkin" means "descendent of
Rivka", "Dvorkin" means "descendent of Dvora" etc. People with these
surnames won't necessarily be related, as the female names were quite
common."

My husband, Mitchell Shandling, an amateur linguist, has since told me he
doesn't believe Sandler/Shandler are the same as the matronymic names
Shandlin/Shandling. All the ones that are clearly matronymic end in "-ing"
(Shandling) or "-in" (Dworkin, Rivkin, Malkin).

"Sandler" would, in Yiddish, mean a sandal maker (not a shoemaker, which is
Shuster).

I hope the useful information I posted re matronymics makes up for the
(possibly) incorrect information I posted on Sandler/Shandler!

Judy

-- Judy Kunofsky
-- Berkeley, California


Belarus SIG #Belarus Vsia Rossiia #belarus

TGart7777@...
 

I would like to recognize the contribution of Vladimir Golynskiy to the Vsia
Rossiia database which was recently updated on JewishGen. Vladimir kindly
contributed translated material, his name was inadvertently omitted >from the
updated introduction. I apologize to Vlaidimir and thank him for his
cotribution.

Tom Gartman
TGart7777@aol.com