Date   

Sochaczew records? #poland

misaacso@...
 

Does anyone know if there will be any records of Sochaczew and the
surrounding area being transcribed anytime soon?

Thanks for your help!

Farra Isaacson
NY, NY
RESEARCHING:

Poland: (Ciechanowiec) BORENSTEIN, LEVINE
(Sochaczew) HABERMAN, GOLDKRANTZ, FLEISCHMAN, JACOBOVITZ
Russia: Ukraine: (Odessa): SCHWEIBISH, SCHWARTZMAN, MESHOURAS (MISHURIS),
COHEN, CHALFIN, KAPLOWITZ
Latvia (Riga): LIPSHITZ (all spellings), KUSLANSKY (all
variations), JOEL (YOEL)
Lithuania: LIPSHITZ (all), ISAACSON


JRI Poland #Poland Sochaczew records? #poland

misaacso@...
 

Does anyone know if there will be any records of Sochaczew and the
surrounding area being transcribed anytime soon?

Thanks for your help!

Farra Isaacson
NY, NY
RESEARCHING:

Poland: (Ciechanowiec) BORENSTEIN, LEVINE
(Sochaczew) HABERMAN, GOLDKRANTZ, FLEISCHMAN, JACOBOVITZ
Russia: Ukraine: (Odessa): SCHWEIBISH, SCHWARTZMAN, MESHOURAS (MISHURIS),
COHEN, CHALFIN, KAPLOWITZ
Latvia (Riga): LIPSHITZ (all spellings), KUSLANSKY (all
variations), JOEL (YOEL)
Lithuania: LIPSHITZ (all), ISAACSON


Info abt Warsaw Ghetto #poland

Terry Ostrach <to-5star@...>
 

Hope one of you folks can help me with this information. I'm trying to
focus my search for my husband's maternal family ancestors who in the US
have used the names Gilfenbain, Galfenbaum, and Elfenbaum, but we believe
that the name in Poland was Elfenbein. In need some information about the
Warsaw Ghetto. Here is the background, first:

My husband's grandfather (Avrum {Elfenbein} Gilfenbain) was >from Warszawa
and was
born in 1890. He had a sister, Hannah, born approximately in 1878 or 1879.
I did a search in the JRI-Poland/Warszawa section for Elfenbain.
The search produced a marriage record in Zakroczym, a town on the
northern outskirts of Warszawa in1877 for Icjek Eflenbein.
Family "memory" indicates that Avrum's father was called "Itzi" so
I am hoping that Icjek Elfenbein is "ours."
The marriage year is "good" since it "works" with Hannah's birth date,
and she was his oldest child.
If I could find a birth record connecting either Hannah or Avrum to
Icjek Eflenbein, then I would have a certainty.
I haven't run across the name "Elfenbain"very often in the lists, so I'm
hoping this is it.

Now, here's my question. My Sister-in-law insists that since Avrum
was >from Warsaw that he MUST have lived in the Warsaw ghetto though
she concedes that Itzi may have come >from an area outside of the city.
I'm not about to have an unfounded discourse with my sister-in-law about
something I know little about.

Is it true that ALL Jews in Warsaw ca 1900 lived in the Ghetto? If so, what
was the location of the Ghetto in Warsaw? Did it have a name? Was it a
shtetl? What side of Warsaw was it on? Are there Ghetto records anywhere?

BTW, I've sent to Poland for the above record listed in the JRI PSA list. I
imagine it will be awhile before I get it back. I'll let you all know when
that happens.

Terry


JRI Poland #Poland Info abt Warsaw Ghetto #poland

Terry Ostrach <to-5star@...>
 

Hope one of you folks can help me with this information. I'm trying to
focus my search for my husband's maternal family ancestors who in the US
have used the names Gilfenbain, Galfenbaum, and Elfenbaum, but we believe
that the name in Poland was Elfenbein. In need some information about the
Warsaw Ghetto. Here is the background, first:

My husband's grandfather (Avrum {Elfenbein} Gilfenbain) was >from Warszawa
and was
born in 1890. He had a sister, Hannah, born approximately in 1878 or 1879.
I did a search in the JRI-Poland/Warszawa section for Elfenbain.
The search produced a marriage record in Zakroczym, a town on the
northern outskirts of Warszawa in1877 for Icjek Eflenbein.
Family "memory" indicates that Avrum's father was called "Itzi" so
I am hoping that Icjek Elfenbein is "ours."
The marriage year is "good" since it "works" with Hannah's birth date,
and she was his oldest child.
If I could find a birth record connecting either Hannah or Avrum to
Icjek Eflenbein, then I would have a certainty.
I haven't run across the name "Elfenbain"very often in the lists, so I'm
hoping this is it.

Now, here's my question. My Sister-in-law insists that since Avrum
was >from Warsaw that he MUST have lived in the Warsaw ghetto though
she concedes that Itzi may have come >from an area outside of the city.
I'm not about to have an unfounded discourse with my sister-in-law about
something I know little about.

Is it true that ALL Jews in Warsaw ca 1900 lived in the Ghetto? If so, what
was the location of the Ghetto in Warsaw? Did it have a name? Was it a
shtetl? What side of Warsaw was it on? Are there Ghetto records anywhere?

BTW, I've sent to Poland for the above record listed in the JRI PSA list. I
imagine it will be awhile before I get it back. I'll let you all know when
that happens.

Terry


Comment on strategy and arhcival access #belarus

Franklin J. Swartz <eejhp@...>
 

Dear All,

I am writing in response to Ms. Margolyes suggestion regarding the
Belarus National Archives. Before proceeding I should declare an
interest in the matter. The East European Jewish Heritage Project
finances many of its charitable activities >from income derived
through genealogical research.

As such it is not unreasonable to assume that any arrangement which,
as Ms. Margolyes proposes, exclusively restricts research access to
the Archive's own staff, will reduce or eliminate that income and the
benefits which flow >from it.

Having said that I feel that there are other considerations which
would redound to the disadvantage of researchers in the West if the
proposal is pursued. First, of course, is the matter of choice.
The Archives already offer a research service. Some people find
it satisfactory others do not. It makes little sense to actively
create a situation in which one must rely exclusively on the
judgment and skills of one group of researchers. In the Archives
at present there are only two people working as researchers. At
least one of them has ambitions to monopolize all research work.
This is reflected in a range of hidden charges which accrete as
work is done. There is no reason to believe that this example
will not be followed by the Archive itself if outsiders are excluded
from conducting research.
Additionally while the present goodwill of the archive executive is
not in doubt one cannot be certain about future administrations,
especially given the parlous state of U.S.-Belarusian relations.

To an extent relations between Western researchers and the Archives of
Belarus have been fouled by visitors, who have made promises to provide
and encourage assistance, but have not followed through with concrete
action. There is no doubt much to be gained in the way of goodwill by
providing necessary equipment and facilities to enhance indexing and
archiving but it is wrong to encourage restriction of access. Instead
one must fortify goodwill by implementing promisedintentions with timely
actions.

Ms. Margolyes' is correct in assuming that the interests of the National
Archive and the Belarusian nation would be severely compromised by
allowing mass copying and publication of its holdings and this will
never happen. The archive, however, has no objection to providing
indexing and has not done so because of lack of resources.
Ms. Margolyes is also correct in describing their present rates for many
of their services as reasonably priced and, as I said above, some people
find them satisfactory as well. If equipment is to be provided it should
be done solely as an act of goodwill and without strings. One must bear
also in mind that there must be ongoing contact with the Belarusian
government over this issue and intermittent contact without follow
through, as been the case in the past, will serve only to create ill
will and low credibility.

An important matter which has not been touched on is the cost of properly
equipping the archive for the tasks required. Given the complete lack of
equipment: no archival scanners or copiers; no Pentium level computers;
no digital cameras; no budget for media; inadequate staff numbers; a
very moderate guess would be that at least $10,000 is needed to make
this proposal a reality. A donation of this scale would have to be
Negotiated with government to assure that equipment goes to the archive
and that it does not attract taxation under Belarusian law.

To summarize: Any arrangement which results in restriction of access
to the archives will be inimical to the interests of Western researchers.
On a larger scale the encouragement of government control and
monopolization of access to information at any level is an obstacle to
the growth of civil society; an exercise in which no organization should
engage in the Former Soviet Union. The way forward is, in my opinion,
to facilitate open access by providing resources which will enable
indexing and proper archiving of materials. This should be done in a
responsible way through the proper channels.


Franklin J. Swartz
Executive Director
East European Jewish Heritage Project Ltd (USA)
East European Jewish Heritage Project (UK)
Jewish Revival Charitable Mission (Republic of Belarus)
13b Dauman Street
Minsk 220002
Belarus
Tel/Fax: +375 17 234 3360
eejhp@yahoo.com
http://eejhp.tripod.ca
SAVE LIVES AND TRADITIONS:
http://eejhp.tripod.ca/donation1.htm

-----------
...SNIP...
. . .we should agree that all the ACCESS, & COPYING of those documents is
controlled by the official Belarus Archive & paid for -according to the
not terribly expensive fee scale, which they demand at this moment.
-----------


Belarus SIG #Belarus Comment on strategy and arhcival access #belarus

Franklin J. Swartz <eejhp@...>
 

Dear All,

I am writing in response to Ms. Margolyes suggestion regarding the
Belarus National Archives. Before proceeding I should declare an
interest in the matter. The East European Jewish Heritage Project
finances many of its charitable activities >from income derived
through genealogical research.

As such it is not unreasonable to assume that any arrangement which,
as Ms. Margolyes proposes, exclusively restricts research access to
the Archive's own staff, will reduce or eliminate that income and the
benefits which flow >from it.

Having said that I feel that there are other considerations which
would redound to the disadvantage of researchers in the West if the
proposal is pursued. First, of course, is the matter of choice.
The Archives already offer a research service. Some people find
it satisfactory others do not. It makes little sense to actively
create a situation in which one must rely exclusively on the
judgment and skills of one group of researchers. In the Archives
at present there are only two people working as researchers. At
least one of them has ambitions to monopolize all research work.
This is reflected in a range of hidden charges which accrete as
work is done. There is no reason to believe that this example
will not be followed by the Archive itself if outsiders are excluded
from conducting research.
Additionally while the present goodwill of the archive executive is
not in doubt one cannot be certain about future administrations,
especially given the parlous state of U.S.-Belarusian relations.

To an extent relations between Western researchers and the Archives of
Belarus have been fouled by visitors, who have made promises to provide
and encourage assistance, but have not followed through with concrete
action. There is no doubt much to be gained in the way of goodwill by
providing necessary equipment and facilities to enhance indexing and
archiving but it is wrong to encourage restriction of access. Instead
one must fortify goodwill by implementing promisedintentions with timely
actions.

Ms. Margolyes' is correct in assuming that the interests of the National
Archive and the Belarusian nation would be severely compromised by
allowing mass copying and publication of its holdings and this will
never happen. The archive, however, has no objection to providing
indexing and has not done so because of lack of resources.
Ms. Margolyes is also correct in describing their present rates for many
of their services as reasonably priced and, as I said above, some people
find them satisfactory as well. If equipment is to be provided it should
be done solely as an act of goodwill and without strings. One must bear
also in mind that there must be ongoing contact with the Belarusian
government over this issue and intermittent contact without follow
through, as been the case in the past, will serve only to create ill
will and low credibility.

An important matter which has not been touched on is the cost of properly
equipping the archive for the tasks required. Given the complete lack of
equipment: no archival scanners or copiers; no Pentium level computers;
no digital cameras; no budget for media; inadequate staff numbers; a
very moderate guess would be that at least $10,000 is needed to make
this proposal a reality. A donation of this scale would have to be
Negotiated with government to assure that equipment goes to the archive
and that it does not attract taxation under Belarusian law.

To summarize: Any arrangement which results in restriction of access
to the archives will be inimical to the interests of Western researchers.
On a larger scale the encouragement of government control and
monopolization of access to information at any level is an obstacle to
the growth of civil society; an exercise in which no organization should
engage in the Former Soviet Union. The way forward is, in my opinion,
to facilitate open access by providing resources which will enable
indexing and proper archiving of materials. This should be done in a
responsible way through the proper channels.


Franklin J. Swartz
Executive Director
East European Jewish Heritage Project Ltd (USA)
East European Jewish Heritage Project (UK)
Jewish Revival Charitable Mission (Republic of Belarus)
13b Dauman Street
Minsk 220002
Belarus
Tel/Fax: +375 17 234 3360
eejhp@yahoo.com
http://eejhp.tripod.ca
SAVE LIVES AND TRADITIONS:
http://eejhp.tripod.ca/donation1.htm

-----------
...SNIP...
. . .we should agree that all the ACCESS, & COPYING of those documents is
controlled by the official Belarus Archive & paid for -according to the
not terribly expensive fee scale, which they demand at this moment.
-----------


URGENT!! Virus Warnings! #belarus

Elsebeth Paikin
 

To Belarus SIG

A new virus is spreading, and some send out warnings against it.
it is:
NAME: Creative
ALIAS: Prolin, Shockwave, W32/Prolin@mm
ALIAS: TROJ_SHOCKWAVE, TROJ_PROLIN

However, it is simply not possible to send out warnings against
every new virus/worm/trojans. Since the above was diagnosed and
warnings were being sent out, a new one has appeared
NAME: BleBla
ALIAS: Romeo-and-Juliet, Romeo, Juliet, Verona, IWorm_Blebla,
I-Worm.Blebla

The only safe thing you can do is to guard yourself >from virus-attacks
by having a good virus-protection program and preferably also a virus-
shield.

Furthermore, check out one of the many excellent websites, that bring
information about all the new viruses, such as:

These websites enable you to check something out in seconds - just a
click away! So play it safe: take the time to visit them regularly.
Here are some URLs:

http://www.datafellows.com/virus-info/
http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/hoax.html

And if you send out virus-warnings to a friend or two
---(don't ask to copy and send the warnings to ---
---everybody in the address book, as that might ---
---be considered a hoax, spam and chain letter!)---
but to a few friends or colleagues you can send the warning with
a remedy and explanation.
Without the latter a warning is not of much use!
And you can find the remedy at the above mentioned websites.

So virus warnings should not be sent to the JewishGen mailing lists.

Best regards


------------------------------------
Moderator of the Belarus, Denmark
and Ekaterinoslav Discussion Groups
Elsebeth Paikin, Copenhagen, Denmark
e-mail: elsebeth@paikin.dk
------------------------------------


Belarus SIG #Belarus URGENT!! Virus Warnings! #belarus

Elsebeth Paikin
 

To Belarus SIG

A new virus is spreading, and some send out warnings against it.
it is:
NAME: Creative
ALIAS: Prolin, Shockwave, W32/Prolin@mm
ALIAS: TROJ_SHOCKWAVE, TROJ_PROLIN

However, it is simply not possible to send out warnings against
every new virus/worm/trojans. Since the above was diagnosed and
warnings were being sent out, a new one has appeared
NAME: BleBla
ALIAS: Romeo-and-Juliet, Romeo, Juliet, Verona, IWorm_Blebla,
I-Worm.Blebla

The only safe thing you can do is to guard yourself >from virus-attacks
by having a good virus-protection program and preferably also a virus-
shield.

Furthermore, check out one of the many excellent websites, that bring
information about all the new viruses, such as:

These websites enable you to check something out in seconds - just a
click away! So play it safe: take the time to visit them regularly.
Here are some URLs:

http://www.datafellows.com/virus-info/
http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/hoax.html

And if you send out virus-warnings to a friend or two
---(don't ask to copy and send the warnings to ---
---everybody in the address book, as that might ---
---be considered a hoax, spam and chain letter!)---
but to a few friends or colleagues you can send the warning with
a remedy and explanation.
Without the latter a warning is not of much use!
And you can find the remedy at the above mentioned websites.

So virus warnings should not be sent to the JewishGen mailing lists.

Best regards


------------------------------------
Moderator of the Belarus, Denmark
and Ekaterinoslav Discussion Groups
Elsebeth Paikin, Copenhagen, Denmark
e-mail: elsebeth@paikin.dk
------------------------------------


Verified Virus Information #belarus

joan breslow <webjoan@...>
 

It was a little tricky finding this, but there's a description of this
virus (first identified on 30 November), along with advice on how to
remove it and restore files, at the following Symantech site:

http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/w32.prolin.worm.html

It was first identified on 30 November 2000. It's important to have
up-to-date anti-virus software! I just purchased and installed Norton
Internet Security 2001, which has a firewall to protect you while you're
on the Internet and also includes anti-virus software to protect your
e-mail.

The only trouble is, you have to uninstall the Norton before you install
other software. However, the Norton software uninstalls and reinstalls
fairly fast.

Another site to check would be

http://www.mcafee.com/anti-virus/viruses/prolin/default.asp


joan breslow


Belarus SIG #Belarus Verified Virus Information #belarus

joan breslow <webjoan@...>
 

It was a little tricky finding this, but there's a description of this
virus (first identified on 30 November), along with advice on how to
remove it and restore files, at the following Symantech site:

http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/w32.prolin.worm.html

It was first identified on 30 November 2000. It's important to have
up-to-date anti-virus software! I just purchased and installed Norton
Internet Security 2001, which has a firewall to protect you while you're
on the Internet and also includes anti-virus software to protect your
e-mail.

The only trouble is, you have to uninstall the Norton before you install
other software. However, the Norton software uninstalls and reinstalls
fairly fast.

Another site to check would be

http://www.mcafee.com/anti-virus/viruses/prolin/default.asp


joan breslow


Finland emigration? #general

Seesiegel <seesiegel@...>
 

Thankyou to the person who listed the Finland web site and ship listing. I
found a name just like my grandfather's (Leib Rottenberg) on the list.
But, since I had "heard" he came >from Odessa, Russia, I am curious if this
could even be him and if so, why would he have left via Finland in perhaps
1905? Was there a route of immigration north >from Odessa up to finland?
Did Finland assist Russian men escaping the army? The only reason I
entertain the idea at all is because apparently he is listed as leaving
from England on the same passenger info for Finland And ---one brother, it
is told, remained in Scotland for a while and developed a bit of an accent
and the ship "Urania" did stop in Scotland.
So.....what's the story---why would a russian jew leave through Finland?
you may email privately, but I think this is good info to share.
carolyn r. siegel
seesiegel@aol.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Finland emigration? #general

Seesiegel <seesiegel@...>
 

Thankyou to the person who listed the Finland web site and ship listing. I
found a name just like my grandfather's (Leib Rottenberg) on the list.
But, since I had "heard" he came >from Odessa, Russia, I am curious if this
could even be him and if so, why would he have left via Finland in perhaps
1905? Was there a route of immigration north >from Odessa up to finland?
Did Finland assist Russian men escaping the army? The only reason I
entertain the idea at all is because apparently he is listed as leaving
from England on the same passenger info for Finland And ---one brother, it
is told, remained in Scotland for a while and developed a bit of an accent
and the ship "Urania" did stop in Scotland.
So.....what's the story---why would a russian jew leave through Finland?
you may email privately, but I think this is good info to share.
carolyn r. siegel
seesiegel@aol.com


Re: Prince #general

Sally Bruckheimer <sallybru@...>
 

Stephen Shamroth wrote:
In researching my maternal line I have been examining the LDS records from
Jaroslaw for the surname Prince. Although the records are in Cyrillic,it
is clear that nothing resembling "Prince" can be found. Would Prince be an
Anglicized version of a Polish Name? Any help would be appreciated.


If you can read the Cyrillic letters (P is the Greek letter pi >from
geometry, R looks like P because it is rho in Greek, etc.) and have
checked lots of variant spellings (my Mother knew a man named Prinz which
would be more like the correct spelling-maybe even Princ in Polish), then
try Nasi-which is Hebrew similar in meaning to Prince.

Are the records available >from a time period when you are pretty sure
your family was there? Lots of people moved around, voluntarily or not.

Of course, the name could have been shortened and changed >from something
else, or they could have been >from somewhere near Jaroslaw, or both.
Have you tried JRI-PP and the Family Finder?

Keep trying, widen the search any way you can. Check more sources here
in the US to find if there might be a different town mentioned. I was
told my grandfather was >from Berdichev, recently I found out his brother
was supposed to have been born in Odessa which is no where near
Berdichev-I don't know which, if either, is a better place to look.

Never give up,

Sally Bruckheimer
Buffalo, NY


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Prince #general

Sally Bruckheimer <sallybru@...>
 

Stephen Shamroth wrote:
In researching my maternal line I have been examining the LDS records from
Jaroslaw for the surname Prince. Although the records are in Cyrillic,it
is clear that nothing resembling "Prince" can be found. Would Prince be an
Anglicized version of a Polish Name? Any help would be appreciated.


If you can read the Cyrillic letters (P is the Greek letter pi >from
geometry, R looks like P because it is rho in Greek, etc.) and have
checked lots of variant spellings (my Mother knew a man named Prinz which
would be more like the correct spelling-maybe even Princ in Polish), then
try Nasi-which is Hebrew similar in meaning to Prince.

Are the records available >from a time period when you are pretty sure
your family was there? Lots of people moved around, voluntarily or not.

Of course, the name could have been shortened and changed >from something
else, or they could have been >from somewhere near Jaroslaw, or both.
Have you tried JRI-PP and the Family Finder?

Keep trying, widen the search any way you can. Check more sources here
in the US to find if there might be a different town mentioned. I was
told my grandfather was >from Berdichev, recently I found out his brother
was supposed to have been born in Odessa which is no where near
Berdichev-I don't know which, if either, is a better place to look.

Never give up,

Sally Bruckheimer
Buffalo, NY


why jewish genealogy? #general

Gene and Ellen Sucov <genellen@...>
 

Dear David, You raise some provocative questions. I suggest that each of
us will have somewhat different reasons for engaging in this search for our
"roots". For me, the search emerged out of my own need to connect myself
to a real, personal family history. This need emerged after I had finished
focusing on career and family, that is, when I was close to retirement. I'm
sure it was connected with my own desire that I be remembered after I was
gone. So, recovering the chain to my ggparents, formerly lost in their
villages in the Russian pale, and reading and translating the Yizkor Books
from their villages, gave me a personal history which I have shared with my
sibs and cousins and their kids.
Underneath the need for a personal history is the need to be connected
to a larger community history. Now that I have read the accounts of the
murder of their neighbors (and very likely of themselves) by the Nazis and
their accomplices, my relation to the Shoah has changed >from generalized
outrage to personal outrage. In this way I have become more connected to
my personal, and consequently, my collective Jewish history. That may
partially explain why we are now living in Israel.
Collective memory is what keep all groups, and especially, Jews
together. For Jews, it used to be religion and its emphasis on collective
memory which bound us together. Today, for most of us that bond is quite
weak. Without it, we are atomized, alone, lonely. The nature of society in
today's Western world encourages this atomicity and aloneness.
Jewishgenners are reacting against that sense of isolation and creating
their own family communities.
David, thank you for haivng posed the question.
Gene Sucov
----- Original Message -----
From: David Frey <dfrey@bigpond.net.au>
To: JewishGen Discussion Group <jewishgen@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 9:54 AM
Subject: Some thoughts


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen why jewish genealogy? #general

Gene and Ellen Sucov <genellen@...>
 

Dear David, You raise some provocative questions. I suggest that each of
us will have somewhat different reasons for engaging in this search for our
"roots". For me, the search emerged out of my own need to connect myself
to a real, personal family history. This need emerged after I had finished
focusing on career and family, that is, when I was close to retirement. I'm
sure it was connected with my own desire that I be remembered after I was
gone. So, recovering the chain to my ggparents, formerly lost in their
villages in the Russian pale, and reading and translating the Yizkor Books
from their villages, gave me a personal history which I have shared with my
sibs and cousins and their kids.
Underneath the need for a personal history is the need to be connected
to a larger community history. Now that I have read the accounts of the
murder of their neighbors (and very likely of themselves) by the Nazis and
their accomplices, my relation to the Shoah has changed >from generalized
outrage to personal outrage. In this way I have become more connected to
my personal, and consequently, my collective Jewish history. That may
partially explain why we are now living in Israel.
Collective memory is what keep all groups, and especially, Jews
together. For Jews, it used to be religion and its emphasis on collective
memory which bound us together. Today, for most of us that bond is quite
weak. Without it, we are atomized, alone, lonely. The nature of society in
today's Western world encourages this atomicity and aloneness.
Jewishgenners are reacting against that sense of isolation and creating
their own family communities.
David, thank you for haivng posed the question.
Gene Sucov
----- Original Message -----
From: David Frey <dfrey@bigpond.net.au>
To: JewishGen Discussion Group <jewishgen@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 9:54 AM
Subject: Some thoughts


Re: some thoughts #general

Sally Bruckheimer <sallybru@...>
 

David Frey wrote:
"I'm trying to understand the reason for the pursuit we are all engaged
in many with a great deal of fervor"


Personally, I am not trying to change anything-obviously we cannot
change the past. Not much will change in the present (aside >from some
email).

What genealogy gives me, and what I would like more of, is an
understanding of what the world was like, specifically for my ancestors.
I always hated history because it was taught: who were the 2
candidates for the election of 1848 and what were the 3 main issues
(like I really care). I never had any feeling for what life was like or
what reality was like or that it 'meant' anything to me.

When I first started working, I wanted to get my Grandmother's death
certificate. I knew she died in 1939, and I thought that I needed to
know what day; so I looked through the newspapers on microfilm. I was
stunned. Hitler invaded here, Hitler invaded there! Of course, I knew
that >from history class, and >from being told as a child; I know many of
our Jewishgen families were there in Europe, and suffered terribly.
But it meant something different to me because my family was doing
things at the time-some that I have found were in Europe then.

I have found out that my 8th great grandfather was a Dominican,
confessor to the Infanta Maria who was later Empress of Austria. The
same Empress of Austria who may have thrown the other side of my family
out of Vienna. I can even figure out that what went on in Spain
affected something in Austria.

To say nothing of maps: the Bruckheimers were >from a unique place which
was not Baden, but it is today. They lived in an area ruled by the
Elector of the Main-all that Holy Roman Empire stuff suddenly has
something to do with my family. It was not Germany until 1871.

I hope that I am expressing the changes I have felt in myself and how I
see the events of the past-I was really amazed at the beginning.

Sally Bruckheimer
Buffalo, NY


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: some thoughts #general

Sally Bruckheimer <sallybru@...>
 

David Frey wrote:
"I'm trying to understand the reason for the pursuit we are all engaged
in many with a great deal of fervor"


Personally, I am not trying to change anything-obviously we cannot
change the past. Not much will change in the present (aside >from some
email).

What genealogy gives me, and what I would like more of, is an
understanding of what the world was like, specifically for my ancestors.
I always hated history because it was taught: who were the 2
candidates for the election of 1848 and what were the 3 main issues
(like I really care). I never had any feeling for what life was like or
what reality was like or that it 'meant' anything to me.

When I first started working, I wanted to get my Grandmother's death
certificate. I knew she died in 1939, and I thought that I needed to
know what day; so I looked through the newspapers on microfilm. I was
stunned. Hitler invaded here, Hitler invaded there! Of course, I knew
that >from history class, and >from being told as a child; I know many of
our Jewishgen families were there in Europe, and suffered terribly.
But it meant something different to me because my family was doing
things at the time-some that I have found were in Europe then.

I have found out that my 8th great grandfather was a Dominican,
confessor to the Infanta Maria who was later Empress of Austria. The
same Empress of Austria who may have thrown the other side of my family
out of Vienna. I can even figure out that what went on in Spain
affected something in Austria.

To say nothing of maps: the Bruckheimers were >from a unique place which
was not Baden, but it is today. They lived in an area ruled by the
Elector of the Main-all that Holy Roman Empire stuff suddenly has
something to do with my family. It was not Germany until 1871.

I hope that I am expressing the changes I have felt in myself and how I
see the events of the past-I was really amazed at the beginning.

Sally Bruckheimer
Buffalo, NY


Re: "pieplate" style photographs #general

Sally Bruckheimer <sallybru@...>
 

Although I have never heard them called that, I have Two prints on tin
of my mother as a baby (b. 1906) and her mother-so turn of the 20th
century.

They are not like the tintypes that I have seen but seem to be much
better quality pictures printed on a convex tin about 4 inches across.
The back is closed but hollow. I have one which is varnished or
shellacked or something and one which is matte finish.

Sally Bruckheimer
Buffalo, NY


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: "pieplate" style photographs #general

Sally Bruckheimer <sallybru@...>
 

Although I have never heard them called that, I have Two prints on tin
of my mother as a baby (b. 1906) and her mother-so turn of the 20th
century.

They are not like the tintypes that I have seen but seem to be much
better quality pictures printed on a convex tin about 4 inches across.
The back is closed but hollow. I have one which is varnished or
shellacked or something and one which is matte finish.

Sally Bruckheimer
Buffalo, NY