Date   

re mother and daughter with same (first) name #poland

byruckfam@...
 

I believe that I have across a similar situation regarding a child having
the same name as her mother, in my own family

According to the census records in the village where my father was born
in present day Poland, my father's mother name was Chaja-Raca. According
to the same records, her mother's name was Rachel (nee Portek) and her
father was Moise Parenczev.

However, my father and his two brothers always referred to their mother as
Rachel, not as Chaja-Raca. Moreover, they believed (and wrote in an
application for a social security card) that her maiden name was Portek (the
maiden name of her mother).

In essence, then, my grandmother seemed to assume the TOTAL identity of her
own mother. However, on my grandmother's stone, in London, her name was
indeed given as Chaja Raca, daughter of Moise. so, someone in the
synagogue knew something more than the family did, apparently.

She and my father and his two brothers had already passed on when i
discovered this fact, so I had no opportunity to question anyone about it.

A partial explanation regarding the Portek/Parenczev switch was that her
parents marriage may not have been not "officially" registered, and the
offspring of such marriages were known to officials by their mother's
(maiden) name rather than their father's surname as is customary in the
west. Hence Chaja Raca was recorded in official records (the census and
emigration papers?) as Chaja Raca Portek.

As for her first name, I have heard two possible explanations:

1. her mother died in childbirth or early on and the child took over her
mother's name, for everyday usage, to honor her, although her "real"
Hebrew name did not change.
2. Rachel is one way to anglicize Chaja-Rasa, but of course on her stone her
name would be expressed accurately as she was given it at birth.

I'd be interested in any other thoughts others may have on this.

marcus byruck


JRI Poland #Poland re mother and daughter with same (first) name #poland

byruckfam@...
 

I believe that I have across a similar situation regarding a child having
the same name as her mother, in my own family

According to the census records in the village where my father was born
in present day Poland, my father's mother name was Chaja-Raca. According
to the same records, her mother's name was Rachel (nee Portek) and her
father was Moise Parenczev.

However, my father and his two brothers always referred to their mother as
Rachel, not as Chaja-Raca. Moreover, they believed (and wrote in an
application for a social security card) that her maiden name was Portek (the
maiden name of her mother).

In essence, then, my grandmother seemed to assume the TOTAL identity of her
own mother. However, on my grandmother's stone, in London, her name was
indeed given as Chaja Raca, daughter of Moise. so, someone in the
synagogue knew something more than the family did, apparently.

She and my father and his two brothers had already passed on when i
discovered this fact, so I had no opportunity to question anyone about it.

A partial explanation regarding the Portek/Parenczev switch was that her
parents marriage may not have been not "officially" registered, and the
offspring of such marriages were known to officials by their mother's
(maiden) name rather than their father's surname as is customary in the
west. Hence Chaja Raca was recorded in official records (the census and
emigration papers?) as Chaja Raca Portek.

As for her first name, I have heard two possible explanations:

1. her mother died in childbirth or early on and the child took over her
mother's name, for everyday usage, to honor her, although her "real"
Hebrew name did not change.
2. Rachel is one way to anglicize Chaja-Rasa, but of course on her stone her
name would be expressed accurately as she was given it at birth.

I'd be interested in any other thoughts others may have on this.

marcus byruck


Re: Mother and daughter with same first name #poland

foxtrot <fox.trot@...>
 

Perhaps the mother died in childbirth, and her daughter was named after
her.

Marla Deutsch
Campbell, CA

Searching: JONAS of Pleszew, Poland
TAITCH/DAITCH/DUITCH/DEUTSCH of Dunilovichi, Belarus
OHSMAN/OSHMAN/ASMAN of Belogorodka, Ukraine

Quiet please, I'm hunting forbearers.


JRI Poland #Poland Re: Mother and daughter with same first name #poland

foxtrot <fox.trot@...>
 

Perhaps the mother died in childbirth, and her daughter was named after
her.

Marla Deutsch
Campbell, CA

Searching: JONAS of Pleszew, Poland
TAITCH/DAITCH/DUITCH/DEUTSCH of Dunilovichi, Belarus
OHSMAN/OSHMAN/ASMAN of Belogorodka, Ukraine

Quiet please, I'm hunting forbearers.


Same names #poland

leonard <leonard77@...>
 

My Great Grand father had ten children, six by his first wife and four by
his second. He named a son by his first wife Salomon after his wife's
deceased father and he through his second wife he also named a son Salomon
after his second wife's deceased father, so he had two children called
Salomon. The first Salomon became known as H.S Harry Salomon although I
don't know where the Harry came >from and the second son was known as Simon.

Leonard Schneider


JRI Poland #Poland Same names #poland

leonard <leonard77@...>
 

My Great Grand father had ten children, six by his first wife and four by
his second. He named a son by his first wife Salomon after his wife's
deceased father and he through his second wife he also named a son Salomon
after his second wife's deceased father, so he had two children called
Salomon. The first Salomon became known as H.S Harry Salomon although I
don't know where the Harry came >from and the second son was known as Simon.

Leonard Schneider


Re an unsolicited e-mail from the Kielce archive #poland

Nachum Tuchman <nachum@...>
 

Dear list,

I received the following, unsolicited, e-mail >from what seems to be the
Kielce archive. The return e-mail address is as follows:

AP Kielce Kancelaria [kancelaria@kielce.ap.gov.pl]

This is the text of the e-mail:

Nasz znak: 843-34/04

Archiwum Panstwowe w Kielcach uprzejmie informuje, ze w aktach
miasta Buska z lat 1896-1950, ksiegach ludnosci stalej wystepuja wpisy
na nazwiska Aspis Aron, Aspis Josek, Icek, Klarman Szmul Lejzor,
Tajchman Hersz Josek, Techman Jozef.
Poszukiwania trwaly 3 godziny. Zgodnie z obowiazujacym cennikiem z
dnia 31 lipca 2002 roku 1 godzina poszukiwan kosztuje 15,30 USD, 1
kserokopia format A4 - 3,90 USD, 1 kserokopia format A3 - 4,40 USD,
koszt przesylki 1,90 USD, koszt wymiany czeku 2,80 USD. Dalsze
poszukiwania zostaly oszacowane na 5 godzin.
Prosimy o informacje, czy zyczy Pan sobie przeslanie kserokopii
odnalezionych wpisow oraz dalszych poszukiwan. Romana Guldon

I don't speak Polish, but did a translation on a free translation site.
The translation was rather strange, but pretty much understandable. I
am able to figure out the prices, $15.30 per hour of research (they did
3 and can do more research- I don't understand if another 5 hours, or a
total of 5 hours, although I would think the former), $1.90 handling,
$2.80 check (cheque) charge, and $3.90-$4.40 per photo copy, depending
on the size.

It seems, though, that they did research on the 3 names that I am
researching >from Busko-Zdroj, formerly in Kielce Gubernia, which are
TUCHMAN, KLARMAN and ASPIS. How they got the names is beyond my
comprehension, unless if they search the JewishGen site. Considering
the dates of research, 1896-1950, those of my father's siblings who were
born in Busko-Zdroj are conspicuously missing. Also strange is the lack
of female names.

Most of the first names I do not recognize, although there are a few
that I do recognize, and they should definitely have been alive at some
point during this time period.

I am wondering if anyone out there is familiar with this, or the sender
Romana Guldon. Is this for real, or a hoax that I should just delete
and forget about? If it's real, it may give me some new information
that I would otherwise never find.

Thanks in advance

Nachum Tuchman
Tekoa, Israel


JRI Poland #Poland Re an unsolicited e-mail from the Kielce archive #poland

Nachum Tuchman <nachum@...>
 

Dear list,

I received the following, unsolicited, e-mail >from what seems to be the
Kielce archive. The return e-mail address is as follows:

AP Kielce Kancelaria [kancelaria@kielce.ap.gov.pl]

This is the text of the e-mail:

Nasz znak: 843-34/04

Archiwum Panstwowe w Kielcach uprzejmie informuje, ze w aktach
miasta Buska z lat 1896-1950, ksiegach ludnosci stalej wystepuja wpisy
na nazwiska Aspis Aron, Aspis Josek, Icek, Klarman Szmul Lejzor,
Tajchman Hersz Josek, Techman Jozef.
Poszukiwania trwaly 3 godziny. Zgodnie z obowiazujacym cennikiem z
dnia 31 lipca 2002 roku 1 godzina poszukiwan kosztuje 15,30 USD, 1
kserokopia format A4 - 3,90 USD, 1 kserokopia format A3 - 4,40 USD,
koszt przesylki 1,90 USD, koszt wymiany czeku 2,80 USD. Dalsze
poszukiwania zostaly oszacowane na 5 godzin.
Prosimy o informacje, czy zyczy Pan sobie przeslanie kserokopii
odnalezionych wpisow oraz dalszych poszukiwan. Romana Guldon

I don't speak Polish, but did a translation on a free translation site.
The translation was rather strange, but pretty much understandable. I
am able to figure out the prices, $15.30 per hour of research (they did
3 and can do more research- I don't understand if another 5 hours, or a
total of 5 hours, although I would think the former), $1.90 handling,
$2.80 check (cheque) charge, and $3.90-$4.40 per photo copy, depending
on the size.

It seems, though, that they did research on the 3 names that I am
researching >from Busko-Zdroj, formerly in Kielce Gubernia, which are
TUCHMAN, KLARMAN and ASPIS. How they got the names is beyond my
comprehension, unless if they search the JewishGen site. Considering
the dates of research, 1896-1950, those of my father's siblings who were
born in Busko-Zdroj are conspicuously missing. Also strange is the lack
of female names.

Most of the first names I do not recognize, although there are a few
that I do recognize, and they should definitely have been alive at some
point during this time period.

I am wondering if anyone out there is familiar with this, or the sender
Romana Guldon. Is this for real, or a hoax that I should just delete
and forget about? If it's real, it may give me some new information
that I would otherwise never find.

Thanks in advance

Nachum Tuchman
Tekoa, Israel


Rubiezewicze, Derevna and Surroundings, Belarus - YB #belarus

David M. Fox <davefox73@...>
 

Yesterday, I received the following email >from a gentleman in Poland (please
read quoted message below. His message appears to be very sincere and I
wonder if anyone out there might have a copy of "Sefer
Rubizhevitsh, Derevne ve-ha-seviva" edited by D. Shtokfish, published in Tel
Aviv 1968, that they would be willing to donate to this man or know where a
copy can be obtained at a lower price, please contact me via private email
and I will provide you with his name, address, and email.

I found the information on JewishGen website of the book entitled
"Rubiezewicze, Derevna and surroundings", the translation of "Sefer
Rubizhevitsh, Derevne ve-ha-seviva" edited by D. Shtokfish, published in Tel
Aviv 1968.
It was a shoking information for me that a book devoted to my hometown was
written. I come >from Rubiezewicze, where I was born in 1936. My father,
Wincenty Witkowski had a mill and helped Jews during the World War Two. My
mother regularly provided them with bread, when Jewish ghetto was formed
nearby. The tragical dead of Jews in Rubiezewicze is still in my memory. After
the war our family lost everything and I had to stay in Russia, Siberia, which
I left after 20 years. Now I live in Poland.
I would like to purchase the book, but my present situation makes it
impossible. I retired and I unfortunately cannot afford to spend 100$.
Therefore, I would like to ask you: maybe you possess a used, old copy of the
book that you could send me? It would be a great joy for me to read about my
family town and its history. I have contact with the inhabitants of
Rubiezewicze, so I would show and thanslate it to them, too.
I look forward to hearing >from you.
I hope there is some kind sole out there who can help. This man may have
information about the Jews who lived in Rubiezewicze.

Dave
--
David Fox
Mail to: davefox73@earthlink.net
Belarus SIG Coordinator
Arnold, MD USA
http://www.jewishgen.org/belarus


Belarus SIG #Belarus Rubiezewicze, Derevna and Surroundings, Belarus - YB #belarus

David M. Fox <davefox73@...>
 

Yesterday, I received the following email >from a gentleman in Poland (please
read quoted message below. His message appears to be very sincere and I
wonder if anyone out there might have a copy of "Sefer
Rubizhevitsh, Derevne ve-ha-seviva" edited by D. Shtokfish, published in Tel
Aviv 1968, that they would be willing to donate to this man or know where a
copy can be obtained at a lower price, please contact me via private email
and I will provide you with his name, address, and email.

I found the information on JewishGen website of the book entitled
"Rubiezewicze, Derevna and surroundings", the translation of "Sefer
Rubizhevitsh, Derevne ve-ha-seviva" edited by D. Shtokfish, published in Tel
Aviv 1968.
It was a shoking information for me that a book devoted to my hometown was
written. I come >from Rubiezewicze, where I was born in 1936. My father,
Wincenty Witkowski had a mill and helped Jews during the World War Two. My
mother regularly provided them with bread, when Jewish ghetto was formed
nearby. The tragical dead of Jews in Rubiezewicze is still in my memory. After
the war our family lost everything and I had to stay in Russia, Siberia, which
I left after 20 years. Now I live in Poland.
I would like to purchase the book, but my present situation makes it
impossible. I retired and I unfortunately cannot afford to spend 100$.
Therefore, I would like to ask you: maybe you possess a used, old copy of the
book that you could send me? It would be a great joy for me to read about my
family town and its history. I have contact with the inhabitants of
Rubiezewicze, so I would show and thanslate it to them, too.
I look forward to hearing >from you.
I hope there is some kind sole out there who can help. This man may have
information about the Jews who lived in Rubiezewicze.

Dave
--
David Fox
Mail to: davefox73@earthlink.net
Belarus SIG Coordinator
Arnold, MD USA
http://www.jewishgen.org/belarus


Re: belarus digest: August 25, 2004 #belarus

MMS <mms@...>
 

At 01:00 2004-08-26 -0500, "Fran Segall" <FranSegall@comcast.net> wrote:
Was everyone with the same
surname in the same town related? Were names THAT unique that they were
rarely duplicated?

Probably not. But Isaak and Aisik are the same name: the name of our second father, the son of Abraham. The original Hebrew pronounciation of the name is Yitzchak (=will laugh) as Sarah laughed hearing the 3 angels predicting her pregnancy (Gen. 18.12).

Moshe Shavit
Israel


Belarus SIG #Belarus Re: belarus digest: August 25, 2004 #belarus

MMS <mms@...>
 

At 01:00 2004-08-26 -0500, "Fran Segall" <FranSegall@comcast.net> wrote:
Was everyone with the same
surname in the same town related? Were names THAT unique that they were
rarely duplicated?

Probably not. But Isaak and Aisik are the same name: the name of our second father, the son of Abraham. The original Hebrew pronounciation of the name is Yitzchak (=will laugh) as Sarah laughed hearing the 3 angels predicting her pregnancy (Gen. 18.12).

Moshe Shavit
Israel


Success with Belarus forum #belarus

aamar@...
 

We would like to write our appreciation of the service that the
Belarus Forum has done us in bringing family together.

In July 2004, my sister and I posted a request for any
information on the MENDELOVITCH family >from Lubtsch/Korelitz
(Karelichi), based on letters sent >from America to our grandmother in New
Zealand. To our delight, a week later, we connected up to
family in New York and Houston, none of who knew of us, but the
connection is definitely correct!

We would also like to thank those people who enlightened us about the Max Kobre
bank.

We are still missing a couple of links, mainly connected with the
KAPURCHEVSKY,KUSHILEVITCH and BARON families >from the
Novogrudek/Lubsch/Korelitz district.


With many thanks,

Ann Belinsky
Re'ut, Israel (New Zealand)

Shirley Horwitz
Kfar Saba,
Israel (New Zealand)


Searching:
FAIVELOVICH MENDELOVITCH KAPURCHEVSKY BARON KUSHILEVITZ
in the Lubsch/Korelitz area of Belarus



----------------------------------------------------------------
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.


Belarus SIG #Belarus Success with Belarus forum #belarus

aamar@...
 

We would like to write our appreciation of the service that the
Belarus Forum has done us in bringing family together.

In July 2004, my sister and I posted a request for any
information on the MENDELOVITCH family >from Lubtsch/Korelitz
(Karelichi), based on letters sent >from America to our grandmother in New
Zealand. To our delight, a week later, we connected up to
family in New York and Houston, none of who knew of us, but the
connection is definitely correct!

We would also like to thank those people who enlightened us about the Max Kobre
bank.

We are still missing a couple of links, mainly connected with the
KAPURCHEVSKY,KUSHILEVITCH and BARON families >from the
Novogrudek/Lubsch/Korelitz district.


With many thanks,

Ann Belinsky
Re'ut, Israel (New Zealand)

Shirley Horwitz
Kfar Saba,
Israel (New Zealand)


Searching:
FAIVELOVICH MENDELOVITCH KAPURCHEVSKY BARON KUSHILEVITZ
in the Lubsch/Korelitz area of Belarus



----------------------------------------------------------------
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.


Re: Success Stories Wanted #belarus

Robert Shustack <rshustack@...>
 

Please post that link? I assume this is a searchable,
web-based database?

Boris M. Krantz


The Canadian Naturalization database is online and searchable at:

http://www.genealogy.gc.ca/06/0603_e.html

All the Canadian Genealogy Centre online databases are listed at:

http://www.genealogy.gc.ca/06/06_e.html


Bob Shustack
Montreal, Canada


Belarus SIG #Belarus RE: Success Stories Wanted #belarus

Robert Shustack <rshustack@...>
 

Please post that link? I assume this is a searchable,
web-based database?

Boris M. Krantz


The Canadian Naturalization database is online and searchable at:

http://www.genealogy.gc.ca/06/0603_e.html

All the Canadian Genealogy Centre online databases are listed at:

http://www.genealogy.gc.ca/06/06_e.html


Bob Shustack
Montreal, Canada


Unusual Surnames #belarus

Orrin Tilevitz <otilevitz@...>
 

Fran Segall asks whether everyone with the same unusual surname in the
same town was related, and whether a particular given name attached to
that surname described a unique person. Not necessarily. We found
someone with my gf's name in a city directory in an adjoining town, but
the profession was wrong and we think he was too young to have
established himself at that time. They could have been cousins, named
after the same person. And there were several families with ourunusual
surname in my gf's part of Belarus with, so far, no apparent relation to us.

Orrin Tilevitz
Brooklyn, NY

Researching TILEVICH (and variants) in and around Krucha


Belarus SIG #Belarus Unusual Surnames #belarus

Orrin Tilevitz <otilevitz@...>
 

Fran Segall asks whether everyone with the same unusual surname in the
same town was related, and whether a particular given name attached to
that surname described a unique person. Not necessarily. We found
someone with my gf's name in a city directory in an adjoining town, but
the profession was wrong and we think he was too young to have
established himself at that time. They could have been cousins, named
after the same person. And there were several families with ourunusual
surname in my gf's part of Belarus with, so far, no apparent relation to us.

Orrin Tilevitz
Brooklyn, NY

Researching TILEVICH (and variants) in and around Krucha


NYC Municipal archives help please #general

Peter E. Sices, M.D. <sicesp@...>
 

I have tried online without success to find several relatives death and one
birth in NYC >from 1905 through 1943.

If anyone would be willing to do the research at the archives for me I would
be happy to pay for the time and expenses.

(Please respond privately)

Peter E. Sices (SICES/TIZES, EDELMAN/EDELMANN, BRAUN, et.al.)
South Bend, IN
sicesp@michianaweb.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen NYC Municipal archives help please #general

Peter E. Sices, M.D. <sicesp@...>
 

I have tried online without success to find several relatives death and one
birth in NYC >from 1905 through 1943.

If anyone would be willing to do the research at the archives for me I would
be happy to pay for the time and expenses.

(Please respond privately)

Peter E. Sices (SICES/TIZES, EDELMAN/EDELMANN, BRAUN, et.al.)
South Bend, IN
sicesp@michianaweb.com