Date   

Re: Finding Death Certificates #general

ELIAS SAVADA
 

On Aug 16, 2005, at 11:04:34, Michael Salzbank wrote:

Thanks to all the Generes who suggested I use www.italiangen.org/NYCDeath.stm to
find certificate numbers and get copies of death certificates.

However, I have a number of relatives whose names do not appear on the list.

Is there a way for me to locate the certificates if I know the date of death,
and in some cases, even the cemetery?

Missing names include:
...FRIMMERMAN
...JORRISCH
Use the Steve Morse portal (http://stevemorse.org/vital/nydeath.html) and think
outside the box, like searching for pieces of the last name and click on the
"contains" button. An Esther RIMMERMAN pops up--same as your FRIMMERMAN?
Unfortunately,no luck though playing with simple variations on JORRISCH.

Elias Savada
Bethesda MD


Re: Finding death certificates (in NYC) #general

phylliskramer1@...
 

Michael S. asked about finding NYC death certificates when the names do not appear
in the Italiangen NYC death certificates index--

My experience is that the index is a pretty good one...but remember that deaths
outside nyc will often not be filed here....

Your choices:
1. you can go to the archives....and search the indexes
2. If you are not >from NY, you can order the Mormon FHL's microfilmed indexes
under New York, NY - vital records
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp
3. you can send for the certificates (the archives will search for you, but they
charge the fees, whether or not they locate a certificate)
http://www.nyc.gov/html/records/html/vitalrecords/home.shtml
4. You can look at the social security death index to see the zip code/place they
died -- http://ssdi.genealogy.rootsweb.com/
5. You can try the NY Times obituaries for information (many libraries have access
to programs which have 100 years of archived major newspapers)

One other thing, if indeed they died in manhattan...probate is available on the
4th floor of the same building as vital records (31 Chambers St).

Happy Hunting!
Phyllis Kramer, Wilton, Conn & Palm Beach, Fla
PhyllisKramer1@att.net, researching (mostly Galicia):
STECHER, TRACHMAN,>from Zmigrod, Dukla, Krosno
KRAMER, BEIM, WISNER >from Jasienica
SCHEINER, KANDEL, SCHIMMEL >from Strzyzow, Dubiecko
LINDNER, EICHEL >from Rohatyn (also Iasi, Romania)


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Finding Death Certificates #general

ELIAS SAVADA
 

On Aug 16, 2005, at 11:04:34, Michael Salzbank wrote:

Thanks to all the Generes who suggested I use www.italiangen.org/NYCDeath.stm to
find certificate numbers and get copies of death certificates.

However, I have a number of relatives whose names do not appear on the list.

Is there a way for me to locate the certificates if I know the date of death,
and in some cases, even the cemetery?

Missing names include:
...FRIMMERMAN
...JORRISCH
Use the Steve Morse portal (http://stevemorse.org/vital/nydeath.html) and think
outside the box, like searching for pieces of the last name and click on the
"contains" button. An Esther RIMMERMAN pops up--same as your FRIMMERMAN?
Unfortunately,no luck though playing with simple variations on JORRISCH.

Elias Savada
Bethesda MD


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Finding death certificates (in NYC) #general

phylliskramer1@...
 

Michael S. asked about finding NYC death certificates when the names do not appear
in the Italiangen NYC death certificates index--

My experience is that the index is a pretty good one...but remember that deaths
outside nyc will often not be filed here....

Your choices:
1. you can go to the archives....and search the indexes
2. If you are not >from NY, you can order the Mormon FHL's microfilmed indexes
under New York, NY - vital records
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp
3. you can send for the certificates (the archives will search for you, but they
charge the fees, whether or not they locate a certificate)
http://www.nyc.gov/html/records/html/vitalrecords/home.shtml
4. You can look at the social security death index to see the zip code/place they
died -- http://ssdi.genealogy.rootsweb.com/
5. You can try the NY Times obituaries for information (many libraries have access
to programs which have 100 years of archived major newspapers)

One other thing, if indeed they died in manhattan...probate is available on the
4th floor of the same building as vital records (31 Chambers St).

Happy Hunting!
Phyllis Kramer, Wilton, Conn & Palm Beach, Fla
PhyllisKramer1@att.net, researching (mostly Galicia):
STECHER, TRACHMAN,>from Zmigrod, Dukla, Krosno
KRAMER, BEIM, WISNER >from Jasienica
SCHEINER, KANDEL, SCHIMMEL >from Strzyzow, Dubiecko
LINDNER, EICHEL >from Rohatyn (also Iasi, Romania)


Re: hatter #general

Pam <pam_staley@...>
 

I just signed up for this newsgroup - and was surprised yet quite pleased to see
this name... my gggrandfather's name actually was originall HOERTER but later
changed to HATTER - but we always thought he came >from Ireland or Scotland - my
Nicholas Hatter/Hoerter was born in 1843, died in 1901 and was married to Sarah
LEATHCO (1853-1924).

More info can be seen at my website -
http://www.michael-steppig-family-tree.com

I was more searching the names of MICHALEK and SCHALLOM - trying to locate whether
they were Jewish or not. And have posted info in seperate postings concerning
them. Just had to answer this one on Hatter.

Blessings
Pam Frierdich-Staley
Warrenton, MO
http://www.michael-steppig-family-tree.com
Looking for surnames of Michalek (Michael/eal), Schallom, Steppig, Mees, Reis,
Frierdich, Bangert, Diesel, Hatter, Hoerter, Kiefer, Rapp, Mentel, Shellhorn,
Staley, Weber, Thoele, Mitchell, Probst


Death Certificate Assistance #general

msalzbank
 

I realize that my last posting was unclear.

I thank all of you who directed me to the Italiangen site. It was very helpful and
I obtained copies of certain certificates.

A number of relatives still do not appear in the records, despite me knowing the
precise date of death and even where they are buried. The death certificates
supply some valuable information, specifically the person's mother's maiden name.

I am still trying to locate the certificate number (so I can order a copy) for the
following people:
All of whom lived in New York

Aaron FRIMMERMAN 6/22/1932
Rose (Reitza) FRIMMERMAN 9/18/1911 (Mt. Zion)
Zissel POCH 7/15/1913=20

Mary JORRISCH 9/22/1908
Isaack JORRISCH 12/19/1911
Alter JORRISCH 1/23/1915
Israel JORRISCH - infant 4/19/1905
Max JORRISCH 3/13/1934
Jennie JORRISCH 12/31/1951

Dates of death unknown for:
Harry (Hyman) and Eva GOTTESFELD
Jossel (Joseph) GOTTESFELD


any assistance or suggestions in how to best locate these certificate numbers
would be appreciated.

Thank you
Michael SALZBANK

MSalzbank@gmail.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: hatter #general

Pam <pam_staley@...>
 

I just signed up for this newsgroup - and was surprised yet quite pleased to see
this name... my gggrandfather's name actually was originall HOERTER but later
changed to HATTER - but we always thought he came >from Ireland or Scotland - my
Nicholas Hatter/Hoerter was born in 1843, died in 1901 and was married to Sarah
LEATHCO (1853-1924).

More info can be seen at my website -
http://www.michael-steppig-family-tree.com

I was more searching the names of MICHALEK and SCHALLOM - trying to locate whether
they were Jewish or not. And have posted info in seperate postings concerning
them. Just had to answer this one on Hatter.

Blessings
Pam Frierdich-Staley
Warrenton, MO
http://www.michael-steppig-family-tree.com
Looking for surnames of Michalek (Michael/eal), Schallom, Steppig, Mees, Reis,
Frierdich, Bangert, Diesel, Hatter, Hoerter, Kiefer, Rapp, Mentel, Shellhorn,
Staley, Weber, Thoele, Mitchell, Probst


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Death Certificate Assistance #general

msalzbank
 

I realize that my last posting was unclear.

I thank all of you who directed me to the Italiangen site. It was very helpful and
I obtained copies of certain certificates.

A number of relatives still do not appear in the records, despite me knowing the
precise date of death and even where they are buried. The death certificates
supply some valuable information, specifically the person's mother's maiden name.

I am still trying to locate the certificate number (so I can order a copy) for the
following people:
All of whom lived in New York

Aaron FRIMMERMAN 6/22/1932
Rose (Reitza) FRIMMERMAN 9/18/1911 (Mt. Zion)
Zissel POCH 7/15/1913=20

Mary JORRISCH 9/22/1908
Isaack JORRISCH 12/19/1911
Alter JORRISCH 1/23/1915
Israel JORRISCH - infant 4/19/1905
Max JORRISCH 3/13/1934
Jennie JORRISCH 12/31/1951

Dates of death unknown for:
Harry (Hyman) and Eva GOTTESFELD
Jossel (Joseph) GOTTESFELD


any assistance or suggestions in how to best locate these certificate numbers
would be appreciated.

Thank you
Michael SALZBANK

MSalzbank@gmail.com


"The Mad Hatter." #general

Pamela Prince <meowkatt2002@...>
 

I can't help you regarding hatters being typical jewish professions. I'm guessing
your second part is "Hatters Disease". As in "The Mad Hatter." It was caused by
mercury poisoning caused by the process of making felt for the hats. They breathed
it in & ended up "going crazy" and then dying. Pam in
Wisconsin USA

...What is the "hatter decease"?
I will appreciate your answers.

Sulamith Beith Yannai
Jerusalem


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen "The Mad Hatter." #general

Pamela Prince <meowkatt2002@...>
 

I can't help you regarding hatters being typical jewish professions. I'm guessing
your second part is "Hatters Disease". As in "The Mad Hatter." It was caused by
mercury poisoning caused by the process of making felt for the hats. They breathed
it in & ended up "going crazy" and then dying. Pam in
Wisconsin USA

...What is the "hatter decease"?
I will appreciate your answers.

Sulamith Beith Yannai
Jerusalem


Re: hatter #general

Alexander Sharon
 

Sulamith Beith Yannai wrote

Many members of my family >from the town Tarnow were hatters. Part of them moved
to the States and worked as hatters in their new home. Does anybody know if this
was a typical Jewish profession? How was the situation in other Galician
cities? What is the "hatter decease"?
Sulamith,

Many hatters were also furriers.
Asthma and the constant exposure to the animal hair was the known cause of hatters
death.

Alexander Sharon
Calgary, Ab


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: hatter #general

Alexander Sharon
 

Sulamith Beith Yannai wrote

Many members of my family >from the town Tarnow were hatters. Part of them moved
to the States and worked as hatters in their new home. Does anybody know if this
was a typical Jewish profession? How was the situation in other Galician
cities? What is the "hatter decease"?
Sulamith,

Many hatters were also furriers.
Asthma and the constant exposure to the animal hair was the known cause of hatters
death.

Alexander Sharon
Calgary, Ab


Publishing Family History vs. Individual Privacy #general

Irene Newhouse <einew@...>
 

Although personally I agree that indentity thieves have lots of ways to work their
havoc w/out knowing a thing about genealogy, it's also true that we need to take
into consideration the privacy concerns of our relatives.

I have one branch of the family that doesn't even want their grandparents' &
greatgrandparents' information passed on to others w/out their approval. I have
stuck to this & fully intend to continue to do so.

On the other hand, it's also true that enough has been lost already. Dr. Markus
Brann of the Jewish Theological Seminary in Breslau [now Wroclaw] wrote many
articles on genealogy. He generally stopped about 100-150 years in the past & I
find it SO annoying, because a lot of the more recent material to which he would
have had access when he was researching in the early 1900s is now lost.

There IS a compromise: you can deposit materials at archives like YIVO and the Leo
Baeck Institute under the condition that access be restricted for a certain number
of years of your choosing.

Irene Newhouse
Kihei HI


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Publishing Family History vs. Individual Privacy #general

Irene Newhouse <einew@...>
 

Although personally I agree that indentity thieves have lots of ways to work their
havoc w/out knowing a thing about genealogy, it's also true that we need to take
into consideration the privacy concerns of our relatives.

I have one branch of the family that doesn't even want their grandparents' &
greatgrandparents' information passed on to others w/out their approval. I have
stuck to this & fully intend to continue to do so.

On the other hand, it's also true that enough has been lost already. Dr. Markus
Brann of the Jewish Theological Seminary in Breslau [now Wroclaw] wrote many
articles on genealogy. He generally stopped about 100-150 years in the past & I
find it SO annoying, because a lot of the more recent material to which he would
have had access when he was researching in the early 1900s is now lost.

There IS a compromise: you can deposit materials at archives like YIVO and the Leo
Baeck Institute under the condition that access be restricted for a certain number
of years of your choosing.

Irene Newhouse
Kihei HI


Re: Publishing genealogies #general

Stan Goodman <SPAM_FOILER@...>
 

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 04:41:46 UTC, tulse04-news@yahoo.co.uk (Nick) opined:

I have experienced a very distant connection (the precise relationship I don't
know) sending me a copy of my familytree with details of my immediate family
with their birth dates and their relationships to each other.

I know that if I were to mention this to my close relations that they would be
very concerned that someone who has very little connection to them has obtained
this information which includes children of school age.

In fact, they would be very angry and would want to know how she got hold of the
information.
But the fact that she did ought to be a clue that the information is out there,
and that it is obtainable by anyone interested, whether you publish or not. One
can adopt any number of philosophies about what degree of privacy is required or
necessary; some of them are more attached to reality than others. An extreme one
such as you suggest is in fact an invitation to abandon meaningful genealogy in
favor of a less intrusive hobby, such as building ships in bottles or collecting
stamps, which would kill time as effectively as genealogy.

There is therefore a question of when does a connection stop being family - they
might be family in terms of a familytree but someone whose relationship goes
back to 1800 hardly counts as family in most people's understanding.
The paragraph above defines an approach to genealogy which may be termed
"dabbling"; it is certainly not a serious one. Personally, I have lines going back
to the middle of the 18th century, and do regard those earliest progenitors as
family, and the same is true for their descendants, cousins of degree four, five,
and more. That is why I do this often tedious work. If I could push my tree
further back, I would do so. My joke with friends is that I would really like to
get it back to at least one Homo Erectus.

I have a family in Jerusalem that was unknown to me until about three years ago,
although I have been in this country for forty years. They have been in Jerusalem
since the mid-nineteenth century. I got to them only by having worked down to
present-day persons (including two that had died in the preceding few years). Had
I not done all that work (and had I not had the cooperation of the Hevra Qadisha
and the Interior Ministry), I would not have found them at all, which would have
been a great personal loss to me, and an equal one to my genealogy project. Only
my ability to trace their ancestry back until it linked with my own enabled me to
prove to them that we are related, as they were initially dubious. None of this
would have happened, had I played by your rules.

At that degree of separation I would be related to half the Jews in London.
Are you saying that this would not be a good thing?

--
Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better). the URL is:
http://www.hashkedim.com

For reasons connected with anti-spam/junk security, the return address is not
valid. To communicate with me, please visit my website (see the URL above -- no
Java required for this purpose) and fill in the email form there.


Re: Publishing genealogies #general

Yisrael Asper
 

Historically short of family ties being forced to be recognized further by inlaws
through some intramarriage of children or grandchildren only when Jewish families
split into different Jewish ethnic groupings did they stop thinking in terms of
someone being a member of their family. Let's say a Lithuanian Jew settled amongst
Polish Jews and married into their community and all his children and
grandchildren and greatgrandchildren did likewise, the greatgrandchildren if all
these generations were raised only in Poland, were known as Polish. Who usually
goes beyond the generation level of parents and grandparents? They could even
think that they could not possibly have "Litvaks" as ancestors! The Holocaust and
the establishment of the State of Israel with the fleeing of Arabic Jews caused
the Jews to scatter about so that many Jews still can't point to their countries
if present residence as "the Old Country" consequently many family ties are
recognized further. Just as it took a bit of a while for Germanic Jews fleeing the
Crusades to view their new Eastern European countries as "their country" with
their identity being Eastern European Jewish so after the tumult of the twentieth
century is it the same. Their will come a time though when English speaking Jews
for instance will stop thinking of their ethnicity as >from the "Old Country" but
it will happen. When things are settled you can have even the farthest distant
relatives thinking of themselves as relatives. Think of a family for instance
living for generations in the same town with no outsiders either ethnically or
from even another town mixing in the family. What is there for them to make a
cutoff point? There is none then. Further no one would be afraid of some strange
outsider getting information on them. Their is no outsider.
Yisrael Asper
yisraelasper@comcast.net
Pittsburgh PA


...There is therefore a question of when does a connection stop being family...
--
Nick Landau
London, UK


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Publishing genealogies #general

Stan Goodman <SPAM_FOILER@...>
 

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 04:41:46 UTC, tulse04-news@yahoo.co.uk (Nick) opined:

I have experienced a very distant connection (the precise relationship I don't
know) sending me a copy of my familytree with details of my immediate family
with their birth dates and their relationships to each other.

I know that if I were to mention this to my close relations that they would be
very concerned that someone who has very little connection to them has obtained
this information which includes children of school age.

In fact, they would be very angry and would want to know how she got hold of the
information.
But the fact that she did ought to be a clue that the information is out there,
and that it is obtainable by anyone interested, whether you publish or not. One
can adopt any number of philosophies about what degree of privacy is required or
necessary; some of them are more attached to reality than others. An extreme one
such as you suggest is in fact an invitation to abandon meaningful genealogy in
favor of a less intrusive hobby, such as building ships in bottles or collecting
stamps, which would kill time as effectively as genealogy.

There is therefore a question of when does a connection stop being family - they
might be family in terms of a familytree but someone whose relationship goes
back to 1800 hardly counts as family in most people's understanding.
The paragraph above defines an approach to genealogy which may be termed
"dabbling"; it is certainly not a serious one. Personally, I have lines going back
to the middle of the 18th century, and do regard those earliest progenitors as
family, and the same is true for their descendants, cousins of degree four, five,
and more. That is why I do this often tedious work. If I could push my tree
further back, I would do so. My joke with friends is that I would really like to
get it back to at least one Homo Erectus.

I have a family in Jerusalem that was unknown to me until about three years ago,
although I have been in this country for forty years. They have been in Jerusalem
since the mid-nineteenth century. I got to them only by having worked down to
present-day persons (including two that had died in the preceding few years). Had
I not done all that work (and had I not had the cooperation of the Hevra Qadisha
and the Interior Ministry), I would not have found them at all, which would have
been a great personal loss to me, and an equal one to my genealogy project. Only
my ability to trace their ancestry back until it linked with my own enabled me to
prove to them that we are related, as they were initially dubious. None of this
would have happened, had I played by your rules.

At that degree of separation I would be related to half the Jews in London.
Are you saying that this would not be a good thing?

--
Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better). the URL is:
http://www.hashkedim.com

For reasons connected with anti-spam/junk security, the return address is not
valid. To communicate with me, please visit my website (see the URL above -- no
Java required for this purpose) and fill in the email form there.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Publishing genealogies #general

Yisrael Asper
 

Historically short of family ties being forced to be recognized further by inlaws
through some intramarriage of children or grandchildren only when Jewish families
split into different Jewish ethnic groupings did they stop thinking in terms of
someone being a member of their family. Let's say a Lithuanian Jew settled amongst
Polish Jews and married into their community and all his children and
grandchildren and greatgrandchildren did likewise, the greatgrandchildren if all
these generations were raised only in Poland, were known as Polish. Who usually
goes beyond the generation level of parents and grandparents? They could even
think that they could not possibly have "Litvaks" as ancestors! The Holocaust and
the establishment of the State of Israel with the fleeing of Arabic Jews caused
the Jews to scatter about so that many Jews still can't point to their countries
if present residence as "the Old Country" consequently many family ties are
recognized further. Just as it took a bit of a while for Germanic Jews fleeing the
Crusades to view their new Eastern European countries as "their country" with
their identity being Eastern European Jewish so after the tumult of the twentieth
century is it the same. Their will come a time though when English speaking Jews
for instance will stop thinking of their ethnicity as >from the "Old Country" but
it will happen. When things are settled you can have even the farthest distant
relatives thinking of themselves as relatives. Think of a family for instance
living for generations in the same town with no outsiders either ethnically or
from even another town mixing in the family. What is there for them to make a
cutoff point? There is none then. Further no one would be afraid of some strange
outsider getting information on them. Their is no outsider.
Yisrael Asper
yisraelasper@comcast.net
Pittsburgh PA


...There is therefore a question of when does a connection stop being family...
--
Nick Landau
London, UK


Attention Vileika Uyezd #belarus

David M. Fox <davefox73@...>
 

Dear Vileika Uyezd Researchers.

Our sources in Vilna have started sending translated files of the 1834
Vileika district Revision List. I just received the following:

Vileika's traders - 30 line
Iliya's traders - 60 lines
Dolginovo's traders - 17 lines
Vileika - 297 lines
Radoshkovichi - 1930 lines

These records cannot be added to the All Belarus Database until additional
donations are received.

However, we are running out of funds that were left over after the the 1850
Vileika District Revision Lists were finished. Therefore, we need for you
and other Vileika researchers to go to:

http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/v_projectslist.asp?project_cat=1

and make a generous contribution to the Vileika Uyezd Revision List Project.

PLEASE contact other Vileika researchers and your relatives and ask them to
do the same. We want to finish getting all the 1834 records and then try
and find some additional Vileika records.

Your immediate action is requested.

Thanks,

Dave
--
David Fox
Mail to: davefox73@earthlink.net
Belarus SIG Founder and Past Coordinator
Arnold, MD USA
http://www.jewishgen.org/belarus


Searching A. PERLMAN, Cleveland, OH, c. 1910 #belarus

Eileen Price <eileen.price@...>
 

Dear SIG members,

The name of Abraham PERLMAN was listed as the informant on death certificate
of my maternal grandfather and maternal great aunt, both of Cleveland, Ohio.
The two years are 1910 and 1912.
Perhaps he knew the family back in Brest Litovsk.
If anyone has any information about this person, please contact me
privately.
Thank you very much.

Eileen Price
Denver, CO
eileen.price@worldnet.att.net