Date   

Re: Geza and Gaspar #hungary

Prof. G. L. Esterson <jerry@...>
 

Suzanne Kemeny Riddle posted on the H-SIG Digest as follows:

"Has anyone ever heard of someone using the names Geza and Gaspar for the
same individual? I know that they are different names (thanks on the info
about the name Geza >from my last posts). Would this have been something
that might have been done, or uncommon?"


The two secular names Geza and Gaspar are both Hungarian secular
names. Gaspar was very popular with Jews, to the point that it was
recognized as a formal kinui ("alias") to go with many Hebrew names in
legal issues. The name Geza, on the other hand, was also used by Jews in
Hungary, but it was less popular than Gaspar, and the rabbis of the 19th
century did not recognize it as a formal kinui for use with Hebrew names.

The issue of "use with Hebrew names" means that if a Jewish male had the
Hebrew name Gavrieyl and also used the Hungarian name Gaspar, then his
legal Jewish name for use in Jewish contracts (such as a Get, Jewish
divorce contract) would be written in the Get as: Gavrieyl haMechune
Gaspar, and he would have been called to the Tora in an aliya using the
name Gavrieyl Gaspar. But if a Jew had the Hebrew name Gavrieyl and also
used the Hungarian name Geza, the name Geza would be recognized as a valid
secular name for him, but it would not be used in a Jewish legal contract,
as would be the name Gaspar, and it would not have been used to call him to
the Tora in an aliya.

The basic question raised by Suzanne Kemeny Riddle related to use by one
individual of *both* of these secular names. There would have been no
legal Jewish reason for this use or non-use, but the issue leaves the
domain of "Jewish legality" and arrives in the domain of statistics of the
use of both names by one individual. It is widely known and appreciated
that throughout Europe Jews in the 19th century tended to adopt multiple
names if they began with the same consonant (as here with Geza and Gaspar)
-- i.e., there could be a basis for this practice. So, here, there is a
possibility that this did occur -- but the statistics are probably weak,
certainly weaker than for the case of the use of Gaspar with Gavrieyl, or
Geza with Gavrieyl.

This statistical possibility probably should not be ignored, but its
weakness also cannot be ignored -- exceptions to statistically-based
"rules" are well known, even though rare.

Professor G. L. Esterson, Ra'anana, Israel
jerry@vms.huji.ac.il


Hungarian Military Muster Rolls #hungary

Ed Zwieback <ezwieback@...>
 

The Mormon Library (FHL) has "Muster Rolls". In particular, I just looked
at the film >from the "Nagykanizsa Military District for 1882-1915 (births of
1860-95)". Ref: film no. 630,124. The records seem to have a lot of info
for each name (including father and mother). I am searching the film to
locate my uncles born in 1879-83, and have not seen them in these Rolls.
I don't understand how the Hungarian military system worked at that local
level, and how these Muster Rolls reflect that system. My questions; 1)
were all males required to register for military service when they reached
age of 18 ? 2) Were these Muster Rolls lists of those actually serving in
the military, by unit ?

Thanks,
Ed Zwieback
Long Beach, California
with personal family at http://ezwieback.com/ZPK-p/index.htm


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Geza and Gaspar #hungary

Prof. G. L. Esterson <jerry@...>
 

Suzanne Kemeny Riddle posted on the H-SIG Digest as follows:

"Has anyone ever heard of someone using the names Geza and Gaspar for the
same individual? I know that they are different names (thanks on the info
about the name Geza >from my last posts). Would this have been something
that might have been done, or uncommon?"


The two secular names Geza and Gaspar are both Hungarian secular
names. Gaspar was very popular with Jews, to the point that it was
recognized as a formal kinui ("alias") to go with many Hebrew names in
legal issues. The name Geza, on the other hand, was also used by Jews in
Hungary, but it was less popular than Gaspar, and the rabbis of the 19th
century did not recognize it as a formal kinui for use with Hebrew names.

The issue of "use with Hebrew names" means that if a Jewish male had the
Hebrew name Gavrieyl and also used the Hungarian name Gaspar, then his
legal Jewish name for use in Jewish contracts (such as a Get, Jewish
divorce contract) would be written in the Get as: Gavrieyl haMechune
Gaspar, and he would have been called to the Tora in an aliya using the
name Gavrieyl Gaspar. But if a Jew had the Hebrew name Gavrieyl and also
used the Hungarian name Geza, the name Geza would be recognized as a valid
secular name for him, but it would not be used in a Jewish legal contract,
as would be the name Gaspar, and it would not have been used to call him to
the Tora in an aliya.

The basic question raised by Suzanne Kemeny Riddle related to use by one
individual of *both* of these secular names. There would have been no
legal Jewish reason for this use or non-use, but the issue leaves the
domain of "Jewish legality" and arrives in the domain of statistics of the
use of both names by one individual. It is widely known and appreciated
that throughout Europe Jews in the 19th century tended to adopt multiple
names if they began with the same consonant (as here with Geza and Gaspar)
-- i.e., there could be a basis for this practice. So, here, there is a
possibility that this did occur -- but the statistics are probably weak,
certainly weaker than for the case of the use of Gaspar with Gavrieyl, or
Geza with Gavrieyl.

This statistical possibility probably should not be ignored, but its
weakness also cannot be ignored -- exceptions to statistically-based
"rules" are well known, even though rare.

Professor G. L. Esterson, Ra'anana, Israel
jerry@vms.huji.ac.il


Hungary SIG #Hungary Hungarian Military Muster Rolls #hungary

Ed Zwieback <ezwieback@...>
 

The Mormon Library (FHL) has "Muster Rolls". In particular, I just looked
at the film >from the "Nagykanizsa Military District for 1882-1915 (births of
1860-95)". Ref: film no. 630,124. The records seem to have a lot of info
for each name (including father and mother). I am searching the film to
locate my uncles born in 1879-83, and have not seen them in these Rolls.
I don't understand how the Hungarian military system worked at that local
level, and how these Muster Rolls reflect that system. My questions; 1)
were all males required to register for military service when they reached
age of 18 ? 2) Were these Muster Rolls lists of those actually serving in
the military, by unit ?

Thanks,
Ed Zwieback
Long Beach, California
with personal family at http://ezwieback.com/ZPK-p/index.htm


Sources of birth and other records #hungary

john.berkeley@tiscali.co.uk <john.berkeley@...>
 

Prompted by Rabbi Marmorstein's message regarding early birth and=20
burial records >from Miskolc being preserved at the Jewish Theological=20
Seminary in NYC, I wonder if anyone knows of the existence of such=20
records for Chust, other than those that survive in the archives in=20
Uzhgorod?

John Berkeley
Warwick, UK

Researching GLUCK and BERKOVIC >from Chust and surrounding area


Miskolc #hungary

hekenvin@...
 

I also have used the Miskolc volumes in the JTS rare book room that Rabbi Marmorstein mentioned in a previous post. Like him, I found my grandfather's birth record in them. He was born in 1880, so the volumes definitely include that year as well.

Rabbi, could you tell us the author and title of the doctoral dissertation that made use of these volumes, which you mentioned? If you know for what university it was written, it might be possible to get a copy using inter-library loan.

Perhaps this is a good time to mention another dissertation that may be of interest to Miskolc researchers: "The Jews of Miskolc, 1780-1848: The Expansion and Development of Traditional Society in the Age of Royal Absolutionism and Liberal Reform," by Howard Lupovitch. It was written at Columbia University in 1996 and is available for purchase at UMI Dissertation Services.

Helene Kenvin
Researching: SCHWARTZ, WEISS, BALAJTI (Miskolc)


Re: Papa Birth records #hungary

David & Diana Laufer <dlaufer@...>
 

Ron,

You could also trawl through the 1848 Hungarian Census available via the All Hungarian Database on
JewishGen http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/hungary/. When I did so, just now, I found a GOLD
family including 10 children one of which was an 11 year old Lipot GOLD. Could that have been your
ancestor Leopold GOLD ? The source referred to is LDS film 719827.

Regards

David Laufer
Sydney


Hungary SIG #Hungary Sources of birth and other records #hungary

john.berkeley@tiscali.co.uk <john.berkeley@...>
 

Prompted by Rabbi Marmorstein's message regarding early birth and=20
burial records >from Miskolc being preserved at the Jewish Theological=20
Seminary in NYC, I wonder if anyone knows of the existence of such=20
records for Chust, other than those that survive in the archives in=20
Uzhgorod?

John Berkeley
Warwick, UK

Researching GLUCK and BERKOVIC >from Chust and surrounding area


Hungary SIG #Hungary Miskolc #hungary

hekenvin@...
 

I also have used the Miskolc volumes in the JTS rare book room that Rabbi Marmorstein mentioned in a previous post. Like him, I found my grandfather's birth record in them. He was born in 1880, so the volumes definitely include that year as well.

Rabbi, could you tell us the author and title of the doctoral dissertation that made use of these volumes, which you mentioned? If you know for what university it was written, it might be possible to get a copy using inter-library loan.

Perhaps this is a good time to mention another dissertation that may be of interest to Miskolc researchers: "The Jews of Miskolc, 1780-1848: The Expansion and Development of Traditional Society in the Age of Royal Absolutionism and Liberal Reform," by Howard Lupovitch. It was written at Columbia University in 1996 and is available for purchase at UMI Dissertation Services.

Helene Kenvin
Researching: SCHWARTZ, WEISS, BALAJTI (Miskolc)


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Papa Birth records #hungary

David & Diana Laufer <dlaufer@...>
 

Ron,

You could also trawl through the 1848 Hungarian Census available via the All Hungarian Database on
JewishGen http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/hungary/. When I did so, just now, I found a GOLD
family including 10 children one of which was an 11 year old Lipot GOLD. Could that have been your
ancestor Leopold GOLD ? The source referred to is LDS film 719827.

Regards

David Laufer
Sydney


Re: SEIDNER Australia #hungary

Mary B
 

Michele Sankar wrote:
"I am trying to track down any information or family member connected
with a SEIDNER who went to Australia, particularly Erno SEIDNER who died
there in 1958."

Michelle, go to the Australian Archives website
http://naa12.naa.gov.au/scripts/ResearcherScreen.asp
and enter the name SEIDNER.
It comes up with 20 items including " Application for Naturalisation -
SEIDNER Ernest born 31 August 1894"

Hope this helps,
Mary Blumenstein
Melbourne, Australia

Researching: BAUM/Svidnik, Satoraljaujhely, Hungary.
BERNER/KATZ/Beregovo,Ukraine.
BLUMENSTEIN/IvanoFrankovsk,Ukraine.
GOLDFARB/MONCIASZ Parczew,Poland.
HELLINGER/Michalovce,Kosice,Humenne,Slovakia.
NEUMAN/NEUMANN/Kvakovce,Michalovce, Slovakia


Hungarian Holocaust Website #hungary

Vivian Kahn
 

I recently came across the website of DEGOB, the National Committee
for Attending Deportees, a Hungarian Jewish relief organization, at
http://degob.org/index.php.

The DEGOB website has detailed information about the Hungarian
Holocaust including scanned images of more than 3500 personal
testimonies as well as other background information.

Vivian Kahn, Oakland, CA

Researching families including:
BAL/BERKOVICS/BERKOWITZ/ROTH/Orasu Nou, Rom. (Ujvaros,
Hung.); Seini, Rom. (Szinervaralja, Hun), Vamfalu, Hung. (Vama, Rom.)
FERBER/Sajoszentpeter, Hun, Netanya, Israel
FRIEDMAN/Sighet
GROSZ/Orasu Nou, Rom., Szatmar megye, Hung.
KAHAN/Sighet, Rom.(Maramarossziget, Hun)
KOHN/Zebegnyo, Zemplen, Hun. (Zbehnov, Slov.), Cleveland, OH
KORNIS/Miskolc, Hung.
LEFKOVICS/Zemplen megye, Hung.
MARKUS/Sepsiszentgyorgy, Hung. (Sfante Gheorghu, Rom)
MOSKOVITS/MOSKOWITZ/MOSS, Ostrov (Kisozstro), Sobrance, Michalovce,
Cleveland, OH
NEUMANN/Sobrance, Michalovce, Kereszt (Kristy, Slov.)
POLACSEK/Sobrance
ROSENBERG/Ungvar, Sobrance
VERO/Debrecen, Nyirbator
SEGAL/ZEGAL/Sziget (Sighet, Rom)


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: SEIDNER Australia #hungary

Mary B
 

Michele Sankar wrote:
"I am trying to track down any information or family member connected
with a SEIDNER who went to Australia, particularly Erno SEIDNER who died
there in 1958."

Michelle, go to the Australian Archives website
http://naa12.naa.gov.au/scripts/ResearcherScreen.asp
and enter the name SEIDNER.
It comes up with 20 items including " Application for Naturalisation -
SEIDNER Ernest born 31 August 1894"

Hope this helps,
Mary Blumenstein
Melbourne, Australia

Researching: BAUM/Svidnik, Satoraljaujhely, Hungary.
BERNER/KATZ/Beregovo,Ukraine.
BLUMENSTEIN/IvanoFrankovsk,Ukraine.
GOLDFARB/MONCIASZ Parczew,Poland.
HELLINGER/Michalovce,Kosice,Humenne,Slovakia.
NEUMAN/NEUMANN/Kvakovce,Michalovce, Slovakia


Hungary SIG #Hungary Hungarian Holocaust Website #hungary

Vivian Kahn
 

I recently came across the website of DEGOB, the National Committee
for Attending Deportees, a Hungarian Jewish relief organization, at
http://degob.org/index.php.

The DEGOB website has detailed information about the Hungarian
Holocaust including scanned images of more than 3500 personal
testimonies as well as other background information.

Vivian Kahn, Oakland, CA

Researching families including:
BAL/BERKOVICS/BERKOWITZ/ROTH/Orasu Nou, Rom. (Ujvaros,
Hung.); Seini, Rom. (Szinervaralja, Hun), Vamfalu, Hung. (Vama, Rom.)
FERBER/Sajoszentpeter, Hun, Netanya, Israel
FRIEDMAN/Sighet
GROSZ/Orasu Nou, Rom., Szatmar megye, Hung.
KAHAN/Sighet, Rom.(Maramarossziget, Hun)
KOHN/Zebegnyo, Zemplen, Hun. (Zbehnov, Slov.), Cleveland, OH
KORNIS/Miskolc, Hung.
LEFKOVICS/Zemplen megye, Hung.
MARKUS/Sepsiszentgyorgy, Hung. (Sfante Gheorghu, Rom)
MOSKOVITS/MOSKOWITZ/MOSS, Ostrov (Kisozstro), Sobrance, Michalovce,
Cleveland, OH
NEUMANN/Sobrance, Michalovce, Kereszt (Kristy, Slov.)
POLACSEK/Sobrance
ROSENBERG/Ungvar, Sobrance
VERO/Debrecen, Nyirbator
SEGAL/ZEGAL/Sziget (Sighet, Rom)


Two sets of marriage records #general

Israel P
 

I have posted at http://www.pikholz.org/TwoRecords.html excerpts of what
appear to be identical 1911 marriage records >from Budanow (East Galicia) -
one with Polish headings and one with German headings. (I copied these
from the Lwow films in Salt Lake City.)
The handwritten texts appear to be identical, down to the Polish-language
month.

Can someone confirm that this is correct and can anyone explain why there
would be a need for two? Both pages have the same four marriages listed.

Israel Pickholtz


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Two sets of marriage records #general

Israel P
 

I have posted at http://www.pikholz.org/TwoRecords.html excerpts of what
appear to be identical 1911 marriage records >from Budanow (East Galicia) -
one with Polish headings and one with German headings. (I copied these
from the Lwow films in Salt Lake City.)
The handwritten texts appear to be identical, down to the Polish-language
month.

Can someone confirm that this is correct and can anyone explain why there
would be a need for two? Both pages have the same four marriages listed.

Israel Pickholtz


Russian translation needed for back of old photograph #general

Lisa
 

Dear Group:

Is there someone who is willing to translate some Russian writing on the back
of an old photo? I'd love to know who it is. Please respond privately.

Many thanks,
Lisa Brahin Weinblatt
New Jersey, USA
REDBALL62@aol.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Russian translation needed for back of old photograph #general

Lisa
 

Dear Group:

Is there someone who is willing to translate some Russian writing on the back
of an old photo? I'd love to know who it is. Please respond privately.

Many thanks,
Lisa Brahin Weinblatt
New Jersey, USA
REDBALL62@aol.com


1907 Austrian gazetteer now online (includes Bukowina) #romania

Renee Steinig
 

At a talk at last week's Jewish genealogy conference, Brian Lenius,
editor of "The Genealogical Gazetteer of Galicia,"mentioned a new
online resource that's of interest to all who are researching the
former Austrian Empire: a digitized version of the "Gemeindelexikon
der im Reichsrate vertretenen Koenigreiche und Laender" (Gazetteer of
the Crown Lands and Territories Represented in the Imperial Council).
The multi-volume gazetteer is now available on the website of the
Brigham Young University's Harold B. Lee Llbrary. To view it, go to

<http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm4/search.php>

and search for the word Gemeindelexikon.

Published (in German) in Vienna in 1907, the Gemeindelexikon includes
a volume for each Austrian province. Volume 13 covers Bukowina.

Listings are organized by Administrative District, then within each
district by Judicial District. Within each Judicial District the list
of villages and towns is alphabetical.

Near the front of each volume is a list of abbreviations and graphics
with their corresponding meaning. Near the back is an index
that lists all towns alphabetically. Columns of statistics on each
locality include such information as area, population (broken down by
gender, religion and language), number of houses, and more.

Renee

Renee Stern Steinig
Dix Hills, New York, USA
genmaven@gmail.com


Romania SIG #Romania 1907 Austrian gazetteer now online (includes Bukowina) #romania

Renee Steinig
 

At a talk at last week's Jewish genealogy conference, Brian Lenius,
editor of "The Genealogical Gazetteer of Galicia,"mentioned a new
online resource that's of interest to all who are researching the
former Austrian Empire: a digitized version of the "Gemeindelexikon
der im Reichsrate vertretenen Koenigreiche und Laender" (Gazetteer of
the Crown Lands and Territories Represented in the Imperial Council).
The multi-volume gazetteer is now available on the website of the
Brigham Young University's Harold B. Lee Llbrary. To view it, go to

<http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm4/search.php>

and search for the word Gemeindelexikon.

Published (in German) in Vienna in 1907, the Gemeindelexikon includes
a volume for each Austrian province. Volume 13 covers Bukowina.

Listings are organized by Administrative District, then within each
district by Judicial District. Within each Judicial District the list
of villages and towns is alphabetical.

Near the front of each volume is a list of abbreviations and graphics
with their corresponding meaning. Near the back is an index
that lists all towns alphabetically. Columns of statistics on each
locality include such information as area, population (broken down by
gender, religion and language), number of houses, and more.

Renee

Renee Stern Steinig
Dix Hills, New York, USA
genmaven@gmail.com