Date   

Re: Jewish Cemeteries in Bialystok Region #poland

bartmant@earthlink.net <bartmant@...>
 

<< If anyone knows of any preservation activities in these
Cemeteries, please share them with the group

In the last two years I have been to Eastern Poland twice and
have taken some photographs of the cemeteries in Bialystok,
Grodek, Krynki, Michalowo, Sokolka, and Tykocin

I will place these photos on the Internet and provide links to
the group later today or tomorrow

Mark Halpern >>


Hi,

This is the situation with cemeteries in Zabludow.

Before the war there were at least four. Two were very small with just a
handful of very, very old stones, and were located right next to the wooden
synagogue, built in 1638. A young couple were buried there together after
they both died of "plague" after collapsing right under the wedding canopy.

This occurred in late 1600s. Many superstitions arose in the community
from this incident. Both these very small cemeteries were blown to pieces
where the synagogue was blown up on June 26th 1941.

There was also a much larger "old" cemetery. Many Rabbs and righteous
ones were buried here. This cemetery doesn't exist at all. I haven't even
been able to figure out exactly where it was located. Eber Perelgut in
Chicago visited this cemetery right after the war when he returned from
service in the Soviet Army. He told me that he spent several hours there
looking for Matzevahs but found none. He did however find many bones.
On the grounds of the cemetery cows were grazing. After this he left and
told himself that he would never again return to Zabludow where he was born and raised.

The next cemetery was the "New" cemetery. I think the first burial there
was in the late 1800s. Many of my family members were buried there
including my grandfather, and two uncles who died very young. This
cemetery has no Matzevahs at all, just the stones upon which they sat which are now partly covered by weeds. There is a small stone wall around the cemetery which is in poor condition. Towering over this scene is a monument to Rabbi Avraham Akiva Subotnik, Rabbi in Zabludow 1904-24. It also is very damaged.

Next to this "new" cemetery are large farming fields. In 1940 the Soviets
built a small military airport there. In June 20 of 1941 the Soviet
Commissar of Zabludow named Margolin (a Jew, not >from Zabludow, and whose
father was a religious scholar) announced that he was going to take part of
this cemetery and plow it under to expand the military airport. A
delegation of mostly elderly Jews >from the community went to speak to him
He listened to them and told them to come back to see him again on June
27th. They left feeling that they were likely going to now be sent to
Siberia. Of course the war broke out and the town was burned on June 26th.

Early in the German occupation the Germans made a group of Jews including
a relative of mine by marriage take apart the statue of Lenin that the
Russians had built in the market square. They made them take it to this
Jewish cemetery for a "Jewish" burial. On the way they were abused and
beaten. On the way back a group of Poles had assembled and came at them
with pitchforks, axes, etc, and tore some of them to pieces while they
made them pray to god to save them. During the period of the Zabludow
Ghetto Jewish slave laborers were made to remove the Matzevahs >from the
Zabludow cemeteries. They were taken by the Germans crushed and used to
widen the road out of Bialystok toward Moscow. A German company called
Cercov (best translation >from Yiddish) had the contract for this work. I
spent a lot of time trying to trace this company but without success. As
of a couple of years ago one of these slave laborers was still alive in a
nursing home in Texas but in very poor shape. He gave his video testimony
to his grand daughter several years earlier, but won't let his story be
told to anyone outside the family. Turned down Shoa Visual History
Foundation, etc, and also won't let any information be given to me.


It appears that at the end of the war there were a small number of
Matzevahs left in this cemetery that the Germans had not removed. They
appear to have been removed by Poles. When I was in Zabludow one of my
Polish friends offered to show me where one of them was and had been used
as a knife sharpener, but I was already pretty overwhelmed and refused.
Tomasz Wisniewski a number of years ago located a Matzevah that was in a
pile of old concrete. It is >from somewhere in Zabludow, and is as far as
I can tell the only one left >from Zabludow that can be read. I have it on
my website.

It's very hard to figure out emotionally and also physically how to best
deal with this remaining almost totally wrecked cemetery in Zabludow. A
young Polish farmer across the street offered to mow it and apply a weed
killer a couple of times a year for $300. Someday I'd like to plant a row
of shrubs around its perimeter (approx cost 2,000) and also put up a
historical marker on it's grounds explaining what it is and memorializing
the community. I've probably spent $20,000 of my own money on all my
Zabludow projects, and for the time being am pretty tapped out. Maybe
someday I'll find someone who can help, but there are actually higher
priorities. Below are links to some of my webpages about Zabludow
cemeteries.

http://www.zabludow.com/cemeteries.htm

Tilford Bartman


BialyGen: Bialystok Region #Bialystok #Poland RE: Jewish Cemeteries in Bialystok Region #poland

bartmant@earthlink.net <bartmant@...>
 

<< If anyone knows of any preservation activities in these
Cemeteries, please share them with the group

In the last two years I have been to Eastern Poland twice and
have taken some photographs of the cemeteries in Bialystok,
Grodek, Krynki, Michalowo, Sokolka, and Tykocin

I will place these photos on the Internet and provide links to
the group later today or tomorrow

Mark Halpern >>


Hi,

This is the situation with cemeteries in Zabludow.

Before the war there were at least four. Two were very small with just a
handful of very, very old stones, and were located right next to the wooden
synagogue, built in 1638. A young couple were buried there together after
they both died of "plague" after collapsing right under the wedding canopy.

This occurred in late 1600s. Many superstitions arose in the community
from this incident. Both these very small cemeteries were blown to pieces
where the synagogue was blown up on June 26th 1941.

There was also a much larger "old" cemetery. Many Rabbs and righteous
ones were buried here. This cemetery doesn't exist at all. I haven't even
been able to figure out exactly where it was located. Eber Perelgut in
Chicago visited this cemetery right after the war when he returned from
service in the Soviet Army. He told me that he spent several hours there
looking for Matzevahs but found none. He did however find many bones.
On the grounds of the cemetery cows were grazing. After this he left and
told himself that he would never again return to Zabludow where he was born and raised.

The next cemetery was the "New" cemetery. I think the first burial there
was in the late 1800s. Many of my family members were buried there
including my grandfather, and two uncles who died very young. This
cemetery has no Matzevahs at all, just the stones upon which they sat which are now partly covered by weeds. There is a small stone wall around the cemetery which is in poor condition. Towering over this scene is a monument to Rabbi Avraham Akiva Subotnik, Rabbi in Zabludow 1904-24. It also is very damaged.

Next to this "new" cemetery are large farming fields. In 1940 the Soviets
built a small military airport there. In June 20 of 1941 the Soviet
Commissar of Zabludow named Margolin (a Jew, not >from Zabludow, and whose
father was a religious scholar) announced that he was going to take part of
this cemetery and plow it under to expand the military airport. A
delegation of mostly elderly Jews >from the community went to speak to him
He listened to them and told them to come back to see him again on June
27th. They left feeling that they were likely going to now be sent to
Siberia. Of course the war broke out and the town was burned on June 26th.

Early in the German occupation the Germans made a group of Jews including
a relative of mine by marriage take apart the statue of Lenin that the
Russians had built in the market square. They made them take it to this
Jewish cemetery for a "Jewish" burial. On the way they were abused and
beaten. On the way back a group of Poles had assembled and came at them
with pitchforks, axes, etc, and tore some of them to pieces while they
made them pray to god to save them. During the period of the Zabludow
Ghetto Jewish slave laborers were made to remove the Matzevahs >from the
Zabludow cemeteries. They were taken by the Germans crushed and used to
widen the road out of Bialystok toward Moscow. A German company called
Cercov (best translation >from Yiddish) had the contract for this work. I
spent a lot of time trying to trace this company but without success. As
of a couple of years ago one of these slave laborers was still alive in a
nursing home in Texas but in very poor shape. He gave his video testimony
to his grand daughter several years earlier, but won't let his story be
told to anyone outside the family. Turned down Shoa Visual History
Foundation, etc, and also won't let any information be given to me.


It appears that at the end of the war there were a small number of
Matzevahs left in this cemetery that the Germans had not removed. They
appear to have been removed by Poles. When I was in Zabludow one of my
Polish friends offered to show me where one of them was and had been used
as a knife sharpener, but I was already pretty overwhelmed and refused.
Tomasz Wisniewski a number of years ago located a Matzevah that was in a
pile of old concrete. It is >from somewhere in Zabludow, and is as far as
I can tell the only one left >from Zabludow that can be read. I have it on
my website.

It's very hard to figure out emotionally and also physically how to best
deal with this remaining almost totally wrecked cemetery in Zabludow. A
young Polish farmer across the street offered to mow it and apply a weed
killer a couple of times a year for $300. Someday I'd like to plant a row
of shrubs around its perimeter (approx cost 2,000) and also put up a
historical marker on it's grounds explaining what it is and memorializing
the community. I've probably spent $20,000 of my own money on all my
Zabludow projects, and for the time being am pretty tapped out. Maybe
someday I'll find someone who can help, but there are actually higher
priorities. Below are links to some of my webpages about Zabludow
cemeteries.

http://www.zabludow.com/cemeteries.htm

Tilford Bartman


Tea and sugar - sometimes #lithuania

Carlos Glikson
 

Bruce Sanders' theory is that having the sugar cube visible for all to see,
while drinking tea, was a sign that you could afford sugar. I'd like to
expand this with some nice info in an eMail which I kept an year ago - but
could not find on-line now.

I had to do some research for a friend. His family is related to the
Weizmanns >from Motol. Chaim Weizmann, the first president of modern Israel,
was born in Motol, in today's Belarus. Searching for Weizmanns and Motol, I
came across this. The author of the eMail.mentioned quoted his uncle Aaron.

Aaron - believed to live across >from the Weizmanns in Motol - said that

"the Weizmanns were so rich" that....
"they had sugar in their tea every day." !!

Certainly many of us take some things for granted nowadays - sugar, for
example. Extracting and refining sugar >from sugar beet was the activity of
some of my family members. Probably, the Weizmann's sugar came >from sugar
beet, too.

By the way, I remember the tradition of cube-in-teeth and tea- in- tall-
glasses (with and without handles) for family members originating as North
as Vilna Gubernia and as South as Kremenchug, Ukraine. Who copied whom?

Carlos GLIKSON
Buenos Aires, Argentina
e-Mail cglikson@ciudad.com.ar

Searching for

GLIKSON, GLICKSON, GLUCKSOHN, GLUECKSOHN: Marijampole, Suwalki, Augustow,
Sejny,Sopotkin,Koenigsberg. POKROISKY, POKROJSKI, POKROY: Suwalki, Seirijai. Lomza. ALPEROVICH, ALPEROWICZ: Kremenchug, Vilnius. HOLLANDERSKY,
HOLLENDERSKI, HOLLANDER: Suwalki, Seirijai, Lomza. TARNOPOLSKY, TARNOPOL:
Kremenchug, Kharkov. FELCHINSKY: Kremenchug, Vilnius, Felschtin?. KARP:
Grodno. SMELIENSKY(?),KRASNAPOLSKY(?), BLUMIGDAL (?), GOLUMBIEWSKY,
GOLOMB(?)


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania Tea and sugar - sometimes #lithuania

Carlos Glikson
 

Bruce Sanders' theory is that having the sugar cube visible for all to see,
while drinking tea, was a sign that you could afford sugar. I'd like to
expand this with some nice info in an eMail which I kept an year ago - but
could not find on-line now.

I had to do some research for a friend. His family is related to the
Weizmanns >from Motol. Chaim Weizmann, the first president of modern Israel,
was born in Motol, in today's Belarus. Searching for Weizmanns and Motol, I
came across this. The author of the eMail.mentioned quoted his uncle Aaron.

Aaron - believed to live across >from the Weizmanns in Motol - said that

"the Weizmanns were so rich" that....
"they had sugar in their tea every day." !!

Certainly many of us take some things for granted nowadays - sugar, for
example. Extracting and refining sugar >from sugar beet was the activity of
some of my family members. Probably, the Weizmann's sugar came >from sugar
beet, too.

By the way, I remember the tradition of cube-in-teeth and tea- in- tall-
glasses (with and without handles) for family members originating as North
as Vilna Gubernia and as South as Kremenchug, Ukraine. Who copied whom?

Carlos GLIKSON
Buenos Aires, Argentina
e-Mail cglikson@ciudad.com.ar

Searching for

GLIKSON, GLICKSON, GLUCKSOHN, GLUECKSOHN: Marijampole, Suwalki, Augustow,
Sejny,Sopotkin,Koenigsberg. POKROISKY, POKROJSKI, POKROY: Suwalki, Seirijai. Lomza. ALPEROVICH, ALPEROWICZ: Kremenchug, Vilnius. HOLLANDERSKY,
HOLLENDERSKI, HOLLANDER: Suwalki, Seirijai, Lomza. TARNOPOLSKY, TARNOPOL:
Kremenchug, Kharkov. FELCHINSKY: Kremenchug, Vilnius, Felschtin?. KARP:
Grodno. SMELIENSKY(?),KRASNAPOLSKY(?), BLUMIGDAL (?), GOLUMBIEWSKY,
GOLOMB(?)


Dentist Speaks re Sugar and Tea #lithuania

Deb Katz
 

Jerry Hoffman, DDS emailed me to ask that I warn everyone on this list that
drinking tea through a sugar cube promotes tooth decay. So he discourages
us >from imitating this honored tradition. Another email pointed out that
modern sugar cubes are too soft, anyway, so there's no way to re-live the
tea drinking experience of our ancestors. Oh, shucks.....

Debbie Katz
Los Altos CA

----- Original Message -----
From: "Katz and Klein" <dkbk@sbcglobal.net>


Wow...drinking tea through a sugar cube seems to have been as pervasive
and
linking amongst Jews as the Yiddish language! I learned of the ritual
from
a relative of my family that hails >from a shtetl outside Berdicev
(Ukraine)
and when I told the tale to my mom, she said, "Oh, yes! My grandparents
on
both sides used to do that!" Well, one set of those grandparents came
from
the Brest area (Belarus) and the other >from the Siauliai and Riga areas.

Gosh, I'm thinking maybe I should try it!

Debbie Katz
Los Altos CA
dkbk@sbcglobal.net


Re: Tea in a glass #lithuania

Hedzel@...
 

My father drank tea in a glass but sometimes put strawberry or cherry
preserves in it instead of the lump sugar.

Harriette Hirsch
Fairfield, CT

Researching: HALPER Smolien, Minsk, Belarus
LUKSHEN Smolien, Minsk, Belarus
RUDOMIN Michalishek, Vilna
BLIAKER, BLYAKHER Michalishek, Vilna


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania Dentist Speaks re Sugar and Tea #lithuania

Deb Katz
 

Jerry Hoffman, DDS emailed me to ask that I warn everyone on this list that
drinking tea through a sugar cube promotes tooth decay. So he discourages
us >from imitating this honored tradition. Another email pointed out that
modern sugar cubes are too soft, anyway, so there's no way to re-live the
tea drinking experience of our ancestors. Oh, shucks.....

Debbie Katz
Los Altos CA

----- Original Message -----
From: "Katz and Klein" <dkbk@sbcglobal.net>


Wow...drinking tea through a sugar cube seems to have been as pervasive
and
linking amongst Jews as the Yiddish language! I learned of the ritual
from
a relative of my family that hails >from a shtetl outside Berdicev
(Ukraine)
and when I told the tale to my mom, she said, "Oh, yes! My grandparents
on
both sides used to do that!" Well, one set of those grandparents came
from
the Brest area (Belarus) and the other >from the Siauliai and Riga areas.

Gosh, I'm thinking maybe I should try it!

Debbie Katz
Los Altos CA
dkbk@sbcglobal.net


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania Re: Tea in a glass #lithuania

Hedzel@...
 

My father drank tea in a glass but sometimes put strawberry or cherry
preserves in it instead of the lump sugar.

Harriette Hirsch
Fairfield, CT

Researching: HALPER Smolien, Minsk, Belarus
LUKSHEN Smolien, Minsk, Belarus
RUDOMIN Michalishek, Vilna
BLIAKER, BLYAKHER Michalishek, Vilna


Mozyr Excavation Causes Controversy in Belarus #belarus

David M. Fox <davefox73@...>
 

For those of you with roots in Mozyr, you might want to read this AP article
which appeared in the "Washington Post" on September 14, 2003.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A9173-2003Sep14.html

[Moderator Note: When writing URLs please do not enclose them in
<> because Lyris thinks that is a blank!]
Thanks to Saul Issroff for bringing this to my attention.

Dave
--
David Fox
Mail to: davefox@jewishgen.org
Belarus SIG Coordinator
Arnold, MD USA
http://www.jewishgen.org/belarus


Belarus SIG #Belarus Mozyr Excavation Causes Controversy in Belarus #belarus

David M. Fox <davefox73@...>
 

For those of you with roots in Mozyr, you might want to read this AP article
which appeared in the "Washington Post" on September 14, 2003.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A9173-2003Sep14.html

[Moderator Note: When writing URLs please do not enclose them in
<> because Lyris thinks that is a blank!]
Thanks to Saul Issroff for bringing this to my attention.

Dave
--
David Fox
Mail to: davefox@jewishgen.org
Belarus SIG Coordinator
Arnold, MD USA
http://www.jewishgen.org/belarus


Re: Tea in a Glass - origin of Russian custom #lithuania

Kovitz, Sonia <Sonia.Kovitz@...>
 

Having our "tea" holiday on Litvaksig is great!
The tea with sugar detail _stirs_ up many memories...
I learned the origin of the custom >from a Russian-Jewish emigre.
Sugar was sold not as we are used to it, loose in a sack
or in neat prefab cubes, but in large solidified chunks.
People chipped pieces >from it. The big chunk of sugar was called
a "head of sugar" (_golovA SAKHara_), which my Russian-Yiddish dictionary
translates into Yiddish as _a hitl tsuker_. Hitl generally means hat/cap
but in this phrase it means "loaf", maybe because the chunk looked like a
hat?
I have forgotten exactly why the sugar chip was put into one's mouth
rather than into the glass, but I'll try to find my notes on this BEFORE
Thursday. If anyone has saved all the memories of tea and sugar cubes, I'd love to have them--it makes a wonderful collection when taken "in a lump."

Sonia Kovitz

Seems this must have been a Russian custom but who really
knows the reasons.
Maurine Starr
MODERATOR'S NOTE: Messages to the LitvakSIG Discussion Group are searchable in the SIGs Message List Archives, linked to the JewishGen homepage. Wait a week or so after the thread has ended on Thursday evening and search the the LitvakSIG list for "tea" in this Archive.


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania RE: Tea in a Glass - origin of Russian custom #lithuania

Kovitz, Sonia <Sonia.Kovitz@...>
 

Having our "tea" holiday on Litvaksig is great!
The tea with sugar detail _stirs_ up many memories...
I learned the origin of the custom >from a Russian-Jewish emigre.
Sugar was sold not as we are used to it, loose in a sack
or in neat prefab cubes, but in large solidified chunks.
People chipped pieces >from it. The big chunk of sugar was called
a "head of sugar" (_golovA SAKHara_), which my Russian-Yiddish dictionary
translates into Yiddish as _a hitl tsuker_. Hitl generally means hat/cap
but in this phrase it means "loaf", maybe because the chunk looked like a
hat?
I have forgotten exactly why the sugar chip was put into one's mouth
rather than into the glass, but I'll try to find my notes on this BEFORE
Thursday. If anyone has saved all the memories of tea and sugar cubes, I'd love to have them--it makes a wonderful collection when taken "in a lump."

Sonia Kovitz

Seems this must have been a Russian custom but who really
knows the reasons.
Maurine Starr
MODERATOR'S NOTE: Messages to the LitvakSIG Discussion Group are searchable in the SIGs Message List Archives, linked to the JewishGen homepage. Wait a week or so after the thread has ended on Thursday evening and search the the LitvakSIG list for "tea" in this Archive.


Immigrantion records from Poland to Palestine #belarus

Alan Tapper <sabaalan@...>
 

According to Routes to Roots, the Jewish Historical Institute in WARSAW kept
records for the issuance of Polish Aliyah Passports to Palestine for the
period 1929 to 1939.

Al Tapper
Fairfax, VA.

Searching NEMIROVSKY >from Lipovets,
TAPPER >from Snitkov
BURDMAN, DUCKLER and STUCKLEMAN >from Tulchin
MENDOZA >from Kobryn
MENDELEWICZ, MENDELOVICH, MENDELOVITCH >from Byten
HOCHBERG >from Iasi
GORMAN >from Baronovich


Belarus SIG #Belarus Immigrantion records from Poland to Palestine #belarus

Alan Tapper <sabaalan@...>
 

According to Routes to Roots, the Jewish Historical Institute in WARSAW kept
records for the issuance of Polish Aliyah Passports to Palestine for the
period 1929 to 1939.

Al Tapper
Fairfax, VA.

Searching NEMIROVSKY >from Lipovets,
TAPPER >from Snitkov
BURDMAN, DUCKLER and STUCKLEMAN >from Tulchin
MENDOZA >from Kobryn
MENDELEWICZ, MENDELOVICH, MENDELOVITCH >from Byten
HOCHBERG >from Iasi
GORMAN >from Baronovich


BOF for BYTEN, SLONIM Ueyzd, GRODNO gubernia #belarus

Alan Tapper <sabaalan@...>
 

There are records for BYTEN >from 1854,1806 and 1795 at the GRODNO Archives.

The 1854 records contain an alphabetical listing of Jewish families in
Fond 24, Opus 7, Delo 477
The 1806 records contain the census of 1806 in Fond 24, Opus 7, Delo 459.
The 1795 records of the grand Duchy of Lithuania for the Slonim Uezyd were
identified by Sonia Hoffman at the conference in July

Are there other people interested in obtaining these records.

Al Tapper
Fairfax, VA.

Searching NEMIROVSKY >from Lipovets,
TAPPER >from Snitkov
BURDMAN, DUCKLER and STUCKLEMAN >from Tulchin
MENDOZA >from Kobryn
MENDELEWICZ, MENDELOVICH, MENDELOVITCH >from Byten
HOCHBERG >from Iasi
GORMAN >from Baronovich


Belarus SIG #Belarus BOF for BYTEN, SLONIM Ueyzd, GRODNO gubernia #belarus

Alan Tapper <sabaalan@...>
 

There are records for BYTEN >from 1854,1806 and 1795 at the GRODNO Archives.

The 1854 records contain an alphabetical listing of Jewish families in
Fond 24, Opus 7, Delo 477
The 1806 records contain the census of 1806 in Fond 24, Opus 7, Delo 459.
The 1795 records of the grand Duchy of Lithuania for the Slonim Uezyd were
identified by Sonia Hoffman at the conference in July

Are there other people interested in obtaining these records.

Al Tapper
Fairfax, VA.

Searching NEMIROVSKY >from Lipovets,
TAPPER >from Snitkov
BURDMAN, DUCKLER and STUCKLEMAN >from Tulchin
MENDOZA >from Kobryn
MENDELEWICZ, MENDELOVICH, MENDELOVITCH >from Byten
HOCHBERG >from Iasi
GORMAN >from Baronovich


Re: Origin of Jews in Ukraine #ukraine

jaron@...
 

The answer to your question is dependent upon the time period in which the
family moved to a particular town, or region.

1 - Consider the idea that Jewish migration has been based upon the
prospect of economic oppotunity. This would involve Kievan Rus and the
8th century up to the 12th century(?). Kievan Rus was actively trading
with the Byzantine Empire.

2 - Jews escaping Byzantium when the crusaders came through and sacked
Constaninople (which is no longer part of what is now Greece, but rather
modern Istanbul Turkey.) I'm going to guess 11th or 12th century.

3 - Jews escaping Byzantine Empire in 1453 when Turks conquered it.

These three are just for starters! I suggest reading the article on
Ukraine (and various tows in the Encyclopedia Judaica. You might also
want to look at the works of Baron and Dubnow.

The boundaries, borders, etc. of wherever we have lived have always been
temporary or fleeting. But the ethnicity always remains Jewish,

Quoting SingingTM@aol.com:

The mother of a cousin in a family interview reports that her mother
considered the family to be Romanian. However, in my research, I find
that the family
lived in towns in modern-day Ukraine near Kamenets-Podolskiy. The family
name
was TRACHTENBROIT.

Does anyone have any idea about the mobility of Romanian Jews, or the
ethnicity of those living in what are now Ukrainian towns?

Jeff Miller
Brookeville, MD
SingingTM@aol.com

Researching: Rothenberg >from Iasi, Romania
FRAIDER, BRASLOWSKY, STUDNITZ, Trachtenbroit >from various towns in
Kamenets-Podolskiy and StaroKonstantinov areas of Ukraine

Michael L. Jaron
Pittsburgh, PA
jaron@telerama.com


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Re: Origin of Jews in Ukraine #ukraine

jaron@...
 

The answer to your question is dependent upon the time period in which the
family moved to a particular town, or region.

1 - Consider the idea that Jewish migration has been based upon the
prospect of economic oppotunity. This would involve Kievan Rus and the
8th century up to the 12th century(?). Kievan Rus was actively trading
with the Byzantine Empire.

2 - Jews escaping Byzantium when the crusaders came through and sacked
Constaninople (which is no longer part of what is now Greece, but rather
modern Istanbul Turkey.) I'm going to guess 11th or 12th century.

3 - Jews escaping Byzantine Empire in 1453 when Turks conquered it.

These three are just for starters! I suggest reading the article on
Ukraine (and various tows in the Encyclopedia Judaica. You might also
want to look at the works of Baron and Dubnow.

The boundaries, borders, etc. of wherever we have lived have always been
temporary or fleeting. But the ethnicity always remains Jewish,

Quoting SingingTM@aol.com:

The mother of a cousin in a family interview reports that her mother
considered the family to be Romanian. However, in my research, I find
that the family
lived in towns in modern-day Ukraine near Kamenets-Podolskiy. The family
name
was TRACHTENBROIT.

Does anyone have any idea about the mobility of Romanian Jews, or the
ethnicity of those living in what are now Ukrainian towns?

Jeff Miller
Brookeville, MD
SingingTM@aol.com

Researching: Rothenberg >from Iasi, Romania
FRAIDER, BRASLOWSKY, STUDNITZ, Trachtenbroit >from various towns in
Kamenets-Podolskiy and StaroKonstantinov areas of Ukraine

Michael L. Jaron
Pittsburgh, PA
jaron@telerama.com


K-P #ukraine

Gladys Rothman <grothman@...>
 

Dear Dr. Nussbaum,

My family emigrated >from the K-P area to Argentina in 1889.

My grandfather was born in Chemerovitz, according to his Argentinean
papers.

They were among the original founders of a town in the middle of nowhere.
They called the town Moises Ville, Argentina, became the Jewish gauchos
and always told us that, in 1888 when they left Europe, Moldavia
(Moldova?) was part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. My g-grandmother
Victoria Rothman used to say "My Franz Joseph", when talking about the
Emperor. They never considered themselves Rumanian nor Russian.
Will this recollection contradict the assertion that the inhabitants of
Moldavia were Rumanians and that the region was always ruled by the
Russians?

Gladys Rothman, M.A. Psychology and lecturer on Moises Ville
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine K-P #ukraine

Gladys Rothman <grothman@...>
 

Dear Dr. Nussbaum,

My family emigrated >from the K-P area to Argentina in 1889.

My grandfather was born in Chemerovitz, according to his Argentinean
papers.

They were among the original founders of a town in the middle of nowhere.
They called the town Moises Ville, Argentina, became the Jewish gauchos
and always told us that, in 1888 when they left Europe, Moldavia
(Moldova?) was part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. My g-grandmother
Victoria Rothman used to say "My Franz Joseph", when talking about the
Emperor. They never considered themselves Rumanian nor Russian.
Will this recollection contradict the assertion that the inhabitants of
Moldavia were Rumanians and that the region was always ruled by the
Russians?

Gladys Rothman, M.A. Psychology and lecturer on Moises Ville
Toronto, Ontario, Canada