1. main@groups.jewishgen.org
   Date   
Re: Origin of Latvian Jews #latvia

Alex Shapiro <alex@...>
 

Evidence? I'm your evidence: born and raised in Latvia, my father was
born in Latvia, my grandparents were born in Latvia. My father is buried
there, along with my mother. They spoke fluent Yiddish, but my father
was always telling me that the roots of his family are >from Spain. Many
of the Jews in Latvia have darker complexion, the older generation often
used the Sephardic siddurim. At that time I did not know how to pray,
the result of the Soviet education. But the older generation often
prayed at one time in the basement hall of the Riga synagogue that was
allocated the Sepharadim. Many of my friends used to say that their
grand-grand-grand.... parents came >from Portugal. True, there were also
many Ashkenazi Jews in Latvia. There were also some descendants of
Moroccan and Persian Jews, whose ancestors were the traders who came to
Riga that used to be an important port connecting with the Scandinavian
countries and north Europe. But truth to be said, nobody gave any
importance to that. We all were Jews whose parents spoke Yiddish, the
Jewish language of that place and the language of the Jewish schools
before the Soviet invasion in 1940. Some of the older generation knew
basic Ladino, usually songs. During the Holocaust time many Latvian Jews
were killed and put in the mass graves in the Bikernieku Forest, some
were burned alive in the Riga synagogue in the Maskavas district. Their
remains are still buried there, Ashkenazim and Sepharadim together and
nobody gives any importance about their origin. There were just Jews who
were killed for being Jewish.

I attend the services in the Sephardic synagogue in Houston because I
feel more comfortable there, even though my mother was of
Russian/Lithuanian background. I don't feel myself better or worse than
other Jews, because of my mixed Sephardic / Ashkenazi background. I'm
just an Israeli-Latvian Jew who lives at this time in America.

When I traveled to Riga, some years ago, I visited the Jewish museum on
6 Skolas Street. I spoke with the museum curator there who said that
they have documented evidence about the Sephardic Jews who used to live
in the Ventspils Municipality in West Latvia, as well as in Latgalia
area where is my father from.

Shana Tova,

Alex Shapiro
Houston, Texas

Alex, what evidence (dan or otherwise) do you have of your Sephardic
origins (or for any Latvian Jews)? I haven't seen a single case that
pans out. Shana Tova, Randy Schoenberg Los Angeles, CA
Latvia SIG #Latvia Re: Origin of Latvian Jews #latvia

Alex Shapiro <alex@...>
 

Evidence? I'm your evidence: born and raised in Latvia, my father was
born in Latvia, my grandparents were born in Latvia. My father is buried
there, along with my mother. They spoke fluent Yiddish, but my father
was always telling me that the roots of his family are >from Spain. Many
of the Jews in Latvia have darker complexion, the older generation often
used the Sephardic siddurim. At that time I did not know how to pray,
the result of the Soviet education. But the older generation often
prayed at one time in the basement hall of the Riga synagogue that was
allocated the Sepharadim. Many of my friends used to say that their
grand-grand-grand.... parents came >from Portugal. True, there were also
many Ashkenazi Jews in Latvia. There were also some descendants of
Moroccan and Persian Jews, whose ancestors were the traders who came to
Riga that used to be an important port connecting with the Scandinavian
countries and north Europe. But truth to be said, nobody gave any
importance to that. We all were Jews whose parents spoke Yiddish, the
Jewish language of that place and the language of the Jewish schools
before the Soviet invasion in 1940. Some of the older generation knew
basic Ladino, usually songs. During the Holocaust time many Latvian Jews
were killed and put in the mass graves in the Bikernieku Forest, some
were burned alive in the Riga synagogue in the Maskavas district. Their
remains are still buried there, Ashkenazim and Sepharadim together and
nobody gives any importance about their origin. There were just Jews who
were killed for being Jewish.

I attend the services in the Sephardic synagogue in Houston because I
feel more comfortable there, even though my mother was of
Russian/Lithuanian background. I don't feel myself better or worse than
other Jews, because of my mixed Sephardic / Ashkenazi background. I'm
just an Israeli-Latvian Jew who lives at this time in America.

When I traveled to Riga, some years ago, I visited the Jewish museum on
6 Skolas Street. I spoke with the museum curator there who said that
they have documented evidence about the Sephardic Jews who used to live
in the Ventspils Municipality in West Latvia, as well as in Latgalia
area where is my father from.

Shana Tova,

Alex Shapiro
Houston, Texas

Alex, what evidence (dan or otherwise) do you have of your Sephardic
origins (or for any Latvian Jews)? I haven't seen a single case that
pans out. Shana Tova, Randy Schoenberg Los Angeles, CA
Re: Origin of Latvian Jews #latvia

E. Randol Schoenberg
 

Alex, what evidence (DNA or otherwise) do you have of your Sephardic
origins (or for any Latvian Jews)? I haven't seen a single case
that pans out.

Shana Tova,

Randy Schoenberg
Los Angeles, CA
Latvia SIG #Latvia Re: Origin of Latvian Jews #latvia

E. Randol Schoenberg
 

Alex, what evidence (DNA or otherwise) do you have of your Sephardic
origins (or for any Latvian Jews)? I haven't seen a single case
that pans out.

Shana Tova,

Randy Schoenberg
Los Angeles, CA
(Netherlands) Dutch Railroad Reckons with Holocaust Shame 75 Years Later #general

Jan Meisels Allen
 

German railroads were an instrumental part in the Nazi machine of
transporting Jews and others to the death and work camps of World War ll.
The Dutch railway , Nederlandse Spoorwegen, or N.S. participated in the Nazi
scheme, regardless that the Dutch government in exile in London ordered the
railway workers to strike-which they did for 8 months. The strike occurred
after 107,000 Jewish residents of the Netherlands were already deported, of
the 140,who identified themselves as Jews to the extermination camps. Others
deported included the Sinti, Roma, gay men and lesbians, disabled and
resistance fighters.

As reported in the New York Times, a new book, The Dutch Railroad in
Wartime, 1939-1945 clarifies the role of the Dutch railways. The research
found 112 Dutch trains went >from the Netherlands to nine Nazi camps from
June 1942 to August 1944 covering Germany, Austria and Poland.

To read the article and learn more about Dutch railroad complicit actions
with the Nazis, see:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/28/world/europe/ns-dutch-railway-holocaust.html

I have no affiliation with the book on the Dutch Railroad and am sharing
this information solely for the information of the reader.

Jan Meisels Allen
Chairperson, IAJGS Public Records Access Monitoring Committee
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen (Netherlands) Dutch Railroad Reckons with Holocaust Shame 75 Years Later #general

Jan Meisels Allen
 

German railroads were an instrumental part in the Nazi machine of
transporting Jews and others to the death and work camps of World War ll.
The Dutch railway , Nederlandse Spoorwegen, or N.S. participated in the Nazi
scheme, regardless that the Dutch government in exile in London ordered the
railway workers to strike-which they did for 8 months. The strike occurred
after 107,000 Jewish residents of the Netherlands were already deported, of
the 140,who identified themselves as Jews to the extermination camps. Others
deported included the Sinti, Roma, gay men and lesbians, disabled and
resistance fighters.

As reported in the New York Times, a new book, The Dutch Railroad in
Wartime, 1939-1945 clarifies the role of the Dutch railways. The research
found 112 Dutch trains went >from the Netherlands to nine Nazi camps from
June 1942 to August 1944 covering Germany, Austria and Poland.

To read the article and learn more about Dutch railroad complicit actions
with the Nazis, see:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/28/world/europe/ns-dutch-railway-holocaust.html

I have no affiliation with the book on the Dutch Railroad and am sharing
this information solely for the information of the reader.

Jan Meisels Allen
Chairperson, IAJGS Public Records Access Monitoring Committee
JGSLI special meeting #general

Jackie Wasserstein
 

The Jewish Genealogy Society of Long Island will be having a special
meeting on Sunday, October 6.

Time: 3:00 PM
Place: Plainview-Old Bethpage Library 999 Old Country Road
Plainview, NY poblib.org
Due to another event at the library, please allow extra time to park.
Parking is available across the street in the Morton Village Shopping
Center.

Topic: WHAT'S NEW AT ANCESTRY.COM?

Guest speaker: Christa Cowan

Crista Cowan, "The Barefoot Genealogist," will describe some of the new
tools that Ancestry.com has introduced in recent months to help
genealogists discover more about their family history. She'll tell us
about Ancestry's new content,improved family tree tools, and new DNA
methodologies.

Christa is Corporate Genealogist with Ancestry. She has recorded
hundreds of genealogy videos for Ancestry's YouTube channel. She also
responds to genealogy questions on Facebook and shares tips, tricks,
and DNA insights on her blog, cristacowan.com. She is a popular
presenter at genealogy conferences and conducts research for the show
Long Lost Family on TLC.

Admission is free and all are welcome.

Jackie Wasserstein
Past President
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen JGSLI special meeting #general

Jackie Wasserstein
 

The Jewish Genealogy Society of Long Island will be having a special
meeting on Sunday, October 6.

Time: 3:00 PM
Place: Plainview-Old Bethpage Library 999 Old Country Road
Plainview, NY poblib.org
Due to another event at the library, please allow extra time to park.
Parking is available across the street in the Morton Village Shopping
Center.

Topic: WHAT'S NEW AT ANCESTRY.COM?

Guest speaker: Christa Cowan

Crista Cowan, "The Barefoot Genealogist," will describe some of the new
tools that Ancestry.com has introduced in recent months to help
genealogists discover more about their family history. She'll tell us
about Ancestry's new content,improved family tree tools, and new DNA
methodologies.

Christa is Corporate Genealogist with Ancestry. She has recorded
hundreds of genealogy videos for Ancestry's YouTube channel. She also
responds to genealogy questions on Facebook and shares tips, tricks,
and DNA insights on her blog, cristacowan.com. She is a popular
presenter at genealogy conferences and conducts research for the show
Long Lost Family on TLC.

Admission is free and all are welcome.

Jackie Wasserstein
Past President
Re: Convention for Dates #austria-czech

David Lewin
 

Here the answer I had >from Jewishgen:

At 18:12 23/09/2019, Vivian Kahn wrote:
David,

Standard genealogical practice, which is what
JewishGen uses for records, is to write dates
as 23 Sep 2019 etc. Those who send messages to
lists may use other formats and moderators have
enough to do without making such corrections.
Is your comment is addressed to those who are
sending messages? I agree that the American
norm causes problems, which is why I
don't use it in my records or messages.

Vivian
So - it is up to us, the users to stick to an
"international" format irrespective of which camp we are in

I was also asked to tell Vivian Kahn where the
"misleading" dates are used in the Jewishgen data.

Can you help?

A healthy New Year

David Lewin
Re: and another one for his sister #austria-czech

hpgrab@...
 

That's obvious. The parents didn't have a marriage permit so the child
was considered illegitimate (unehelich) and therefore didn't have the
surname of the father Schwarz but the surname of the mother Weil. This
was obviously overlooked in the original entry and had to be corrected
afterwards.

Best
Hanus Grab


Am 29.09.2019 um 08:20 schrieb Philip Moravcik <morav@hawaii.edu>:

A few pages later there is some similar mysterious notation on the
birth matrik for Isak/Israel's sister Barbora. Once again "Schwartz"
has been crossed out and "Weil" (mother's maiden name_ written in.

http://www.badatelna.eu/fond/241/reprodukce/?zaznamId=375958&reproId=436897

If you can figure out what was going on with this family I'd be very
interested to find out.
Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Re: Convention for Dates #austria-czech

David Lewin
 

Here the answer I had >from Jewishgen:

At 18:12 23/09/2019, Vivian Kahn wrote:
David,

Standard genealogical practice, which is what
JewishGen uses for records, is to write dates
as 23 Sep 2019 etc. Those who send messages to
lists may use other formats and moderators have
enough to do without making such corrections.
Is your comment is addressed to those who are
sending messages? I agree that the American
norm causes problems, which is why I
don't use it in my records or messages.

Vivian
So - it is up to us, the users to stick to an
"international" format irrespective of which camp we are in

I was also asked to tell Vivian Kahn where the
"misleading" dates are used in the Jewishgen data.

Can you help?

A healthy New Year

David Lewin
Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Re: and another one for his sister #austria-czech

hpgrab@...
 

That's obvious. The parents didn't have a marriage permit so the child
was considered illegitimate (unehelich) and therefore didn't have the
surname of the father Schwarz but the surname of the mother Weil. This
was obviously overlooked in the original entry and had to be corrected
afterwards.

Best
Hanus Grab


Am 29.09.2019 um 08:20 schrieb Philip Moravcik <morav@hawaii.edu>:

A few pages later there is some similar mysterious notation on the
birth matrik for Isak/Israel's sister Barbora. Once again "Schwartz"
has been crossed out and "Weil" (mother's maiden name_ written in.

http://www.badatelna.eu/fond/241/reprodukce/?zaznamId=375958&reproId=436897

If you can figure out what was going on with this family I'd be very
interested to find out.
Re: interpretation help #austria-czech

hpgrab@...
 

See my previous message to his sister. In this entry below you will find
a note that the parents got married on Feb 23, 1852 (after the abolition
of the Familianten-law), so that the child may have the name of the
father Schwartz >from this time on.

Best
Hanus Grab


Am 29.09.2019 um 08:06 schrieb Philip Moravcik <morav@hawaii.edu>:

Hi, Can anyone make head or tails of the notation on my ancestor
Isak/Israel Schwartz' birth matrik to be found at:
http://www.badatelna.eu/fond/241/reprodukce/?zaznamId=375958&reproId=436895

It looks like they crossed out his surname and put "Weil" - his
mother's maiden name.
Any help would be appreciated.


Philip Moravcik
Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Re: interpretation help #austria-czech

hpgrab@...
 

See my previous message to his sister. In this entry below you will find
a note that the parents got married on Feb 23, 1852 (after the abolition
of the Familianten-law), so that the child may have the name of the
father Schwartz >from this time on.

Best
Hanus Grab


Am 29.09.2019 um 08:06 schrieb Philip Moravcik <morav@hawaii.edu>:

Hi, Can anyone make head or tails of the notation on my ancestor
Isak/Israel Schwartz' birth matrik to be found at:
http://www.badatelna.eu/fond/241/reprodukce/?zaznamId=375958&reproId=436895

It looks like they crossed out his surname and put "Weil" - his
mother's maiden name.
Any help would be appreciated.


Philip Moravcik
Dutch Railroad Reckons with Holocaust Shame 75 Years Later #germany

John Paul Lowens <jplowens@...>
 

German railroads were an instrumental part in the Nazi machine of
transporting Jews and others to the death and work camps of World War
ll. The Dutch railway , Nederlandse Spoorwegen, or N.S. participated
in the Nazi scheme, regardless that the Dutch government in exile in
London ordered the railway workers to strike -- which they did for 8
months. The strike occurred after 107,000 Jewish residents of the
Netherlands were already deported to the extermination camps.
Others deported included the Sinti, Roma, gay men and lesbians,
disabled and resistance fighters.

As reported in the New York Times, a new book, _The Dutch Railroad in
Wartime, 1939-1945_ clarifies the role of the Dutch railways. The
research found that 112 Dutch trains went >from the Netherlands to nine
Nazi camps >from June 1942 to August 1944 covering Germany, Austria,
and Poland.

To read the article and learn more about Dutch railroad complicit
actions with the Nazis, see: https://tinyurl.com/y659zesl or

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/28/world/europe/ns-dutch-railway-holocaust.html

We have no affiliation with the book on the Dutch Railroad and are
sharing this information solely for the information of the reader.

Thanks to Jan Meisels Allen, IAJGS Public Records Access Monitoring Committee
German SIG #Germany Dutch Railroad Reckons with Holocaust Shame 75 Years Later #germany

John Paul Lowens <jplowens@...>
 

German railroads were an instrumental part in the Nazi machine of
transporting Jews and others to the death and work camps of World War
ll. The Dutch railway , Nederlandse Spoorwegen, or N.S. participated
in the Nazi scheme, regardless that the Dutch government in exile in
London ordered the railway workers to strike -- which they did for 8
months. The strike occurred after 107,000 Jewish residents of the
Netherlands were already deported to the extermination camps.
Others deported included the Sinti, Roma, gay men and lesbians,
disabled and resistance fighters.

As reported in the New York Times, a new book, _The Dutch Railroad in
Wartime, 1939-1945_ clarifies the role of the Dutch railways. The
research found that 112 Dutch trains went >from the Netherlands to nine
Nazi camps >from June 1942 to August 1944 covering Germany, Austria,
and Poland.

To read the article and learn more about Dutch railroad complicit
actions with the Nazis, see: https://tinyurl.com/y659zesl or

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/28/world/europe/ns-dutch-railway-holocaust.html

We have no affiliation with the book on the Dutch Railroad and are
sharing this information solely for the information of the reader.

Thanks to Jan Meisels Allen, IAJGS Public Records Access Monitoring Committee
Does anyone use the genealogy websites I set up years ago or can I stop renewing them? #germany

Stephen Weinstein
 

I set up two websites with the word "competitive" in the link years
ago and stopped paying attention. One of the registrations is up for
renewal (it expires October 8, coincidentally Erev Yom Kippur) and I'm
not sure if anyone uses either of them, plus GoDaddy has made renewing
feel like dealing with the IRS (apologies to the IRS), so I'm inclined
to just abandon them.

[If you don't use any websites with the word "competitive" in the
link, then this e[-mail doesn't pertain to you and you can stop
reading now. I'm not providing the link here because there are issues
with whether promoting the websites on JewishGen groups is allowed;
today, I'm just trying to gather information >from existing users, if
there are any.]

To renew, in addition to paying a small amount of money, GoDaddy says
that I also have to agree to multiple really long agreements (terms of
service, privacy policy, data processing addendum, etc.) that I don't
really have time to read -- and it's not all reasonable stuff that you
can just accept without reading. You're allowing them to run up your
phone bill by telemarketing you, to auto-renew in future years at
whatever price they want, etc. So if someone needs my sites to remain
live, then I'm going to have to go through all the agreements to make
sure that I can live with everything that's in them (or switch to a
different company with more acceptable terms -- which could take me
even more time). If nobody's using them anyway, I can just let them
expire (or let one expire and sell the other's domain name).

I know no one is using the paid research services (because I haven't
gotten any money after the first year) or the competitive games that
involve contacting me (because no one has). The database of links to
Christine's Latvia pages is borderline useless, because so many of her
pages aren't online anymore, and because the content of her pages is
supposed to be on Jewishgen soon anyway. The database of links to
pages on the Latvian Archives website is potentially useful, but I
think that by putting the records on Jewishgen with links to the
Latvian Archives website, I've made my own websites redundant. That
basically leaves the noncompetitive practice games, which I don't
monitor, so I don't know if they're used (or even working).

Anyway, if I'm wrong and I have created a useful service, tell me soon.

Stephen Weinstein
stephenweinstein@yahoo.com
Camarillo, CA, USA
German SIG #Germany Does anyone use the genealogy websites I set up years ago or can I stop renewing them? #germany

Stephen Weinstein
 

I set up two websites with the word "competitive" in the link years
ago and stopped paying attention. One of the registrations is up for
renewal (it expires October 8, coincidentally Erev Yom Kippur) and I'm
not sure if anyone uses either of them, plus GoDaddy has made renewing
feel like dealing with the IRS (apologies to the IRS), so I'm inclined
to just abandon them.

[If you don't use any websites with the word "competitive" in the
link, then this e[-mail doesn't pertain to you and you can stop
reading now. I'm not providing the link here because there are issues
with whether promoting the websites on JewishGen groups is allowed;
today, I'm just trying to gather information >from existing users, if
there are any.]

To renew, in addition to paying a small amount of money, GoDaddy says
that I also have to agree to multiple really long agreements (terms of
service, privacy policy, data processing addendum, etc.) that I don't
really have time to read -- and it's not all reasonable stuff that you
can just accept without reading. You're allowing them to run up your
phone bill by telemarketing you, to auto-renew in future years at
whatever price they want, etc. So if someone needs my sites to remain
live, then I'm going to have to go through all the agreements to make
sure that I can live with everything that's in them (or switch to a
different company with more acceptable terms -- which could take me
even more time). If nobody's using them anyway, I can just let them
expire (or let one expire and sell the other's domain name).

I know no one is using the paid research services (because I haven't
gotten any money after the first year) or the competitive games that
involve contacting me (because no one has). The database of links to
Christine's Latvia pages is borderline useless, because so many of her
pages aren't online anymore, and because the content of her pages is
supposed to be on Jewishgen soon anyway. The database of links to
pages on the Latvian Archives website is potentially useful, but I
think that by putting the records on Jewishgen with links to the
Latvian Archives website, I've made my own websites redundant. That
basically leaves the noncompetitive practice games, which I don't
monitor, so I don't know if they're used (or even working).

Anyway, if I'm wrong and I have created a useful service, tell me soon.

Stephen Weinstein
stephenweinstein@yahoo.com
Camarillo, CA, USA
Re: Which DNA test? #dna

Michael Good
 

Hi Arnold,

As Daniel mentioned, you definitely want to do an autosomal test to
start. At Family Tree DNA, that would be the Family Finder test. The
MTDNA test has very limited use in Jewish genealogy.

Please note that you can use swabs to create a sample for a spit test
like Ancestry or 23andMe. Follow the instructions in this "How to do
an AncestryDNA test *without* spit" article at:

http://anotherteenmom.com/reviews/how-to-do-an-ancestrydna-test-without-spit/

I did this for a family member who can't spit enough for a test, and
her Ancestry.DNA test has worked great.

Ancestry has the largest autosomal DNA database and the best
relationship estimates for Jewish ancestry. So if possible - if you're
willing to do the artificial spit test, and Ancestry sells to your
country - it's best to test at Ancestry and then do a free transfer to
Family Tree DNA and MyHeritage. If that's not feasible, though, go
ahead with the Family Finder test.

Good luck in your research!

Best regards,

Michael Good
Los Altos, California, USA
DNA Research #DNA Re: Which DNA test? #dna

Michael Good
 

Hi Arnold,

As Daniel mentioned, you definitely want to do an autosomal test to
start. At Family Tree DNA, that would be the Family Finder test. The
MTDNA test has very limited use in Jewish genealogy.

Please note that you can use swabs to create a sample for a spit test
like Ancestry or 23andMe. Follow the instructions in this "How to do
an AncestryDNA test *without* spit" article at:

http://anotherteenmom.com/reviews/how-to-do-an-ancestrydna-test-without-spit/

I did this for a family member who can't spit enough for a test, and
her Ancestry.DNA test has worked great.

Ancestry has the largest autosomal DNA database and the best
relationship estimates for Jewish ancestry. So if possible - if you're
willing to do the artificial spit test, and Ancestry sells to your
country - it's best to test at Ancestry and then do a free transfer to
Family Tree DNA and MyHeritage. If that's not feasible, though, go
ahead with the Family Finder test.

Good luck in your research!

Best regards,

Michael Good
Los Altos, California, USA
22201 - 22220 of 658108