Date   

Re: The TaZ #rabbinic

Larry Tauber <Ltauber@...>
 

This is in response to Leslie Reich's <lreich@tiscali.co.uk>
message of 2002.10.23:

1. Leslie Reich's statements concerning references to the use of
"Ashkenazi" and his cautions concerning Avot Atarah LeBanim are well
taken. (If possible, I request a summary of the dispute involving R.
Yitzchak and the MaHaRaShaL via private e-mail).

2. The following is a summary of the Jacobi materials. I present
them for the benefit of RavSig members without commentary on their
accuracy. Individuals who would like hard copies should notify me
separately.

The family heading is Halevi A. The tree is labeled by Jacobi
"Excusus A: The protohistoric Kalonymides-descent of the paternal
grandmother of both the MaHaRSCHA and the TaS... based primarily on
No. 29 of MaHaRSCaL's Responsa, on the Sefer haRokeach by R. Eliezer
Rokeach (1160/65-1230) ...and the (partly dubious) Sefer Mizraf
le-Chochma...and secondarily on works such as N.J. HaKohen's Otzar
haGedolim ... Lipschuetz A[vot] A[tarah] L[eBanim] and Shap[iro]
A[ncient]J[ewish] F[amilies]...." Jacobi refers to his introductory
notes which contain additional sources; however, I do not have a
copy of those notes.

The line of descent follows. Please note that the generation
listings are Jacobi's and that the dates are not actual dates but
are based on an absolute dating system he had devised and can vary
greatly for any individual. Going backward >from the TaZ:

1575-1650 14. 1. David I-TaS; and 2. Schmuel-Elieser-MaHaRSCHA
1545-1620 15. 1. Schmuel I [father of TAZ] 2. Juda-Jehuda
[father of Maharsha]
16a Daughter of Abraham KALONYMIDES
m. Schlomo HALEVI A
[father of Schmuel and Juda-Jehuda listed in 15]
1515-1590 16. Abraham (b) Mosche Kalonimides
17a Mosche (b) Joseph II Kaloynimides
1480-1560 17. Joseph II (b) Leibusch Kalonymides
1455-1530 18. (Jehuda-)Leibusch (b) Schalom Kalonymides
19a Schalom (b) Joseph I Kalonymides
1425-1500 19. Joseph I (b) Gerschon Kalonymides
1395-1470 20. Gerschon (b) Jerucham Kalonymides
21a Jerucham (b) David III Kalonymides
1365-1440 21. David III (b) (Schlomo-)Salman-Duber Kalonymides
1335-1410 22. (Schlomo-)Salman I-Duber
(b) Menachem-Mednel Kalonymides
23a Menachem-Mendel (b) Joseph-Jacob Kalonymides
1305-1380 23. Joseph-Jacob (b) David II Kalonymides
1275-1350 24. David II (b) Schimschon Kalonymides
25a Schmischon (b) Abraham Kalonymides (MiSpeyer)
1245-1320 25. Abraham-haZaddik-haNisstar (b) Schimon Kalonymides
1215-1290 26. Schimon (not Schimshon)
(b) David-Baer-Berisch Kalonymides
27a David I-Baer-Berisch (b)Moshe Saltman Kalonymides
1185-1260 27. Moshe Saltman (-?Salman)
(b) Jehuda Chassid Kalonymides
1155-1230 28. Jehuda Chassid (b) Schmuel III Kalonymides
1125-1200 29. [no entry; this is space holder for dating conformity]
1155-1230 30. Schmuel III Chassid (b) Kaloymus XI Kalonymides
1065-1145 31. [space holder]
1035-1115 32. Kalonymus XI haSaken (b) Jitzchak VII Kalonymides
1005-1080 33. Jitzchak VII haSaken (b) Eliesser Kalonymides
975-1050 34. Elieser haGadol (b) Jitzchak Kalonymides
945-1020 35. Jitzchak haGadol (b)Joschua I Kalonymides (Germany)
915- 990 36. Joschua I Chassid (b) Abun I Kalonymides
895- 960 37. Abun I Chassid (b) x [unknown]Kalonymides
855- 930 38. R. x (b) Jekutiel II Kalonymides
m. daughter x (b) Joseph haSaken Simonides
825- 901 39. Rabenu Jekutiel II (b) Mosche I Kalonymides
795- 870 40. Rabenu Mosche I (b) Meschulam II Kalonymides
765- 840 41. Rabenu Meschulam II (b) Ithiel I Kalonymides
735- 810 42. Ithiel I (b) Meschulam I Kalonymides
705- 780 43. Meschulam I (b) x [unknown]Kalonymides

I have omitted siblings connections with other families.

Larry Tauber


Rabbinic Genealogy SIG #Rabbinic Re: The TaZ #rabbinic

Larry Tauber <Ltauber@...>
 

This is in response to Leslie Reich's <lreich@tiscali.co.uk>
message of 2002.10.23:

1. Leslie Reich's statements concerning references to the use of
"Ashkenazi" and his cautions concerning Avot Atarah LeBanim are well
taken. (If possible, I request a summary of the dispute involving R.
Yitzchak and the MaHaRaShaL via private e-mail).

2. The following is a summary of the Jacobi materials. I present
them for the benefit of RavSig members without commentary on their
accuracy. Individuals who would like hard copies should notify me
separately.

The family heading is Halevi A. The tree is labeled by Jacobi
"Excusus A: The protohistoric Kalonymides-descent of the paternal
grandmother of both the MaHaRSCHA and the TaS... based primarily on
No. 29 of MaHaRSCaL's Responsa, on the Sefer haRokeach by R. Eliezer
Rokeach (1160/65-1230) ...and the (partly dubious) Sefer Mizraf
le-Chochma...and secondarily on works such as N.J. HaKohen's Otzar
haGedolim ... Lipschuetz A[vot] A[tarah] L[eBanim] and Shap[iro]
A[ncient]J[ewish] F[amilies]...." Jacobi refers to his introductory
notes which contain additional sources; however, I do not have a
copy of those notes.

The line of descent follows. Please note that the generation
listings are Jacobi's and that the dates are not actual dates but
are based on an absolute dating system he had devised and can vary
greatly for any individual. Going backward >from the TaZ:

1575-1650 14. 1. David I-TaS; and 2. Schmuel-Elieser-MaHaRSCHA
1545-1620 15. 1. Schmuel I [father of TAZ] 2. Juda-Jehuda
[father of Maharsha]
16a Daughter of Abraham KALONYMIDES
m. Schlomo HALEVI A
[father of Schmuel and Juda-Jehuda listed in 15]
1515-1590 16. Abraham (b) Mosche Kalonimides
17a Mosche (b) Joseph II Kaloynimides
1480-1560 17. Joseph II (b) Leibusch Kalonymides
1455-1530 18. (Jehuda-)Leibusch (b) Schalom Kalonymides
19a Schalom (b) Joseph I Kalonymides
1425-1500 19. Joseph I (b) Gerschon Kalonymides
1395-1470 20. Gerschon (b) Jerucham Kalonymides
21a Jerucham (b) David III Kalonymides
1365-1440 21. David III (b) (Schlomo-)Salman-Duber Kalonymides
1335-1410 22. (Schlomo-)Salman I-Duber
(b) Menachem-Mednel Kalonymides
23a Menachem-Mendel (b) Joseph-Jacob Kalonymides
1305-1380 23. Joseph-Jacob (b) David II Kalonymides
1275-1350 24. David II (b) Schimschon Kalonymides
25a Schmischon (b) Abraham Kalonymides (MiSpeyer)
1245-1320 25. Abraham-haZaddik-haNisstar (b) Schimon Kalonymides
1215-1290 26. Schimon (not Schimshon)
(b) David-Baer-Berisch Kalonymides
27a David I-Baer-Berisch (b)Moshe Saltman Kalonymides
1185-1260 27. Moshe Saltman (-?Salman)
(b) Jehuda Chassid Kalonymides
1155-1230 28. Jehuda Chassid (b) Schmuel III Kalonymides
1125-1200 29. [no entry; this is space holder for dating conformity]
1155-1230 30. Schmuel III Chassid (b) Kaloymus XI Kalonymides
1065-1145 31. [space holder]
1035-1115 32. Kalonymus XI haSaken (b) Jitzchak VII Kalonymides
1005-1080 33. Jitzchak VII haSaken (b) Eliesser Kalonymides
975-1050 34. Elieser haGadol (b) Jitzchak Kalonymides
945-1020 35. Jitzchak haGadol (b)Joschua I Kalonymides (Germany)
915- 990 36. Joschua I Chassid (b) Abun I Kalonymides
895- 960 37. Abun I Chassid (b) x [unknown]Kalonymides
855- 930 38. R. x (b) Jekutiel II Kalonymides
m. daughter x (b) Joseph haSaken Simonides
825- 901 39. Rabenu Jekutiel II (b) Mosche I Kalonymides
795- 870 40. Rabenu Mosche I (b) Meschulam II Kalonymides
765- 840 41. Rabenu Meschulam II (b) Ithiel I Kalonymides
735- 810 42. Ithiel I (b) Meschulam I Kalonymides
705- 780 43. Meschulam I (b) x [unknown]Kalonymides

I have omitted siblings connections with other families.

Larry Tauber


BADT; LAZARUS; OPPENHEIMER; JAKOBY #germany

Udi Cain
 

Dear all.
I am looking for information with regard to my family members:
Julius BADT, born 30.08.1816 Maerkisch-Friedland, doctor ("Sanitätsrat"),
died 14.10.1893 in Berlin;
Roderike BADT née LAZARUS, born 10.04.1824 (place not given), died
24.02.1875 in Berlin.
Their son:
Ludwig Eliezer BADT, born 10.11.1844 Briesen, trader, address Köthener
Str. 3, died 21.08.1892 in Berlin.
His wife Nathalie née OPPENHEIMER, was >from Lowenberg. Her father, Moritz
OPPENHEIMER, born 08.05.1821 in Sagan, died 12.02.1897 in Berlin.
Her mother was Eva JAKOBY, born (unknown)12 7 1822 - 23 1 1901 Berlin
Any information will be most appreciated. Best regards.

Udi Cain, Jerusalem. chaikin@netvision.net.il


German SIG #Germany BADT; LAZARUS; OPPENHEIMER; JAKOBY #germany

Udi Cain
 

Dear all.
I am looking for information with regard to my family members:
Julius BADT, born 30.08.1816 Maerkisch-Friedland, doctor ("Sanitätsrat"),
died 14.10.1893 in Berlin;
Roderike BADT née LAZARUS, born 10.04.1824 (place not given), died
24.02.1875 in Berlin.
Their son:
Ludwig Eliezer BADT, born 10.11.1844 Briesen, trader, address Köthener
Str. 3, died 21.08.1892 in Berlin.
His wife Nathalie née OPPENHEIMER, was >from Lowenberg. Her father, Moritz
OPPENHEIMER, born 08.05.1821 in Sagan, died 12.02.1897 in Berlin.
Her mother was Eva JAKOBY, born (unknown)12 7 1822 - 23 1 1901 Berlin
Any information will be most appreciated. Best regards.

Udi Cain, Jerusalem. chaikin@netvision.net.il


Websites with german-english translation programs? #germany

Frank, Steven <Steven.Frank@...>
 

I am starting to plan a trip to Bavaria next summer to show my children
their grandparent's homes and hometowns, and visit some other towns their
ancestors came from. I have been in email touch with a few contacts in
Bavaria but must write via snail mail to others, and that means translating
my letters into German. Can anyone suggest websites that do German/English
translation credibly. Sadly I thought I had one but my German friend told
me it was way off.

I tried doing a search in the archives, since I know this was discussed a
while ago, but was unsuccessful. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Steve Frank, Washington, DC <steven.frank@em.doe.gov>

MODERATOR NOTE: A search for "Translation" in the GerSig Archives at:
http://www.jewishgen.org/wconnect/wc.isa?jg~jgsys~sigspop
produced "A comparison of web-based translation tools" posted 2/17/01.

The same information (including many translation site URLs is on our
web site. There is an easy link at the GerSig home page and the direct
URL is:

http://www.jewishgen.org/GerSIG/resources.htm#tools

Finally, be sure to read Michael Bernet's report on his travel in Bavaria
which is in our archives. My guess: search for:
"travel and Germany and information and Bavaria"
or perhaps:
"travel or trip and Germany and information and Bavaria"

Using the first syntax I found one guide posted by Mr. Bernet and
using the second I found a different one. Both are worth reading.
Remember to limit this search to German Jewish SIG, not all SIGS. MOD1


German SIG #Germany Websites with german-english translation programs? #germany

Frank, Steven <Steven.Frank@...>
 

I am starting to plan a trip to Bavaria next summer to show my children
their grandparent's homes and hometowns, and visit some other towns their
ancestors came from. I have been in email touch with a few contacts in
Bavaria but must write via snail mail to others, and that means translating
my letters into German. Can anyone suggest websites that do German/English
translation credibly. Sadly I thought I had one but my German friend told
me it was way off.

I tried doing a search in the archives, since I know this was discussed a
while ago, but was unsuccessful. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Steve Frank, Washington, DC <steven.frank@em.doe.gov>

MODERATOR NOTE: A search for "Translation" in the GerSig Archives at:
http://www.jewishgen.org/wconnect/wc.isa?jg~jgsys~sigspop
produced "A comparison of web-based translation tools" posted 2/17/01.

The same information (including many translation site URLs is on our
web site. There is an easy link at the GerSig home page and the direct
URL is:

http://www.jewishgen.org/GerSIG/resources.htm#tools

Finally, be sure to read Michael Bernet's report on his travel in Bavaria
which is in our archives. My guess: search for:
"travel and Germany and information and Bavaria"
or perhaps:
"travel or trip and Germany and information and Bavaria"

Using the first syntax I found one guide posted by Mr. Bernet and
using the second I found a different one. Both are worth reading.
Remember to limit this search to German Jewish SIG, not all SIGS. MOD1


GROUP TRIP TO LITHUANIA & NEARBY AREAS #lithuania

Howard Margol
 

Due to the interest expressed, I am organizing another group trip to
Lithuania - June 11 - 21, 2003. This will be the 10th group trip I have
organized and led to Lithuania.

Included - visits to the various Archives, synagogues, ghettos, Holocaust
sites, meetings with Jewish leaders, sight-seeing, guide/interpreters, and
two/three days to visit and spend time in your shtetl, or shtetlach of
interest. All meals (except l dinner & 2 lunches) are included, the finest
hotels (new & modern), modern bus with onboard toilet, and much more. I am
very familiar with the Archives, the archivists, Lithuania and the main
places of Jewish interest.

I do not organize these group trips as a profit-making endeavor. Everything is done "at cost" but in a deluxe manner. My main object is to encourage Jews to go back to their roots, to encourage them to research their ancestors and to enable them to see the rebirth of Judaism taking place in Lithuania.

IMPORTANT: This trip is not being sponsored or endorsed by the Litvak SIG. My previous trip participants can be contacted if references are desired.

For details and a full itinerary of the trip, contact Howard Margol.
E-mail homargol@aol.com

VERY IMPORTANT: Do not ask about this trip through a message to the Digest.
CONTACT ME DIRECTLY at homargol@aol.com


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania GROUP TRIP TO LITHUANIA & NEARBY AREAS #lithuania

Howard Margol
 

Due to the interest expressed, I am organizing another group trip to
Lithuania - June 11 - 21, 2003. This will be the 10th group trip I have
organized and led to Lithuania.

Included - visits to the various Archives, synagogues, ghettos, Holocaust
sites, meetings with Jewish leaders, sight-seeing, guide/interpreters, and
two/three days to visit and spend time in your shtetl, or shtetlach of
interest. All meals (except l dinner & 2 lunches) are included, the finest
hotels (new & modern), modern bus with onboard toilet, and much more. I am
very familiar with the Archives, the archivists, Lithuania and the main
places of Jewish interest.

I do not organize these group trips as a profit-making endeavor. Everything is done "at cost" but in a deluxe manner. My main object is to encourage Jews to go back to their roots, to encourage them to research their ancestors and to enable them to see the rebirth of Judaism taking place in Lithuania.

IMPORTANT: This trip is not being sponsored or endorsed by the Litvak SIG. My previous trip participants can be contacted if references are desired.

For details and a full itinerary of the trip, contact Howard Margol.
E-mail homargol@aol.com

VERY IMPORTANT: Do not ask about this trip through a message to the Digest.
CONTACT ME DIRECTLY at homargol@aol.com


The Holocaust in Lithuania 1941-1945: Book launch #lithuania

shaul <shaul@...>
 

The Holocaust in Lithuania 1941-1945: A Book of Remembrance

The Israel Genealogical Society and Gefen Publishing House
are pleased to invite you to the book launch of
The Holocaust in Lithuania 1941-1945: A Book of Remembrance
(four volumes)

Researched, Compiled and Edited by Rose Lerer Cohen and
Saul Issroff Published by Gefen Publishing House Ltd., 2002

Wednesday, 30th October 2002 at 19:00
Beit Frankfurter
80 Derech Beit Lechem
Baka'a, Jerusalem

Program
Welcome by Jean Pierre Stroweis,
Chairman Israel Genealogical Society, Jerusalem Branch
Greetings by Mr. M. Greenfield
Publisher, Gefen Publishing House
Introductory remarks by Alex Avraham,
Director of the Hall of Names Yad Vashem
Presentation of the book by the authors, Rose Lerer Cohen and
Saul Issroff.

The Lithuanian Names Project will be discussed:- research,
methodology, compilation of the database, the production of
the book and further relevant research possibilities will be
outlined (in English).

Rose Feldman "Rose Feldman" <rosef@post.tau.ac.il>
Tel-Aviv Branch Program Secretary
Israel Genealogy Society

Saul Issroff

MODERATOR'S NOTE: This work is still available at a special pre-publication price at the JewishGenMall <http://www.jewishgenmall.org/>


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania The Holocaust in Lithuania 1941-1945: Book launch #lithuania

shaul <shaul@...>
 

The Holocaust in Lithuania 1941-1945: A Book of Remembrance

The Israel Genealogical Society and Gefen Publishing House
are pleased to invite you to the book launch of
The Holocaust in Lithuania 1941-1945: A Book of Remembrance
(four volumes)

Researched, Compiled and Edited by Rose Lerer Cohen and
Saul Issroff Published by Gefen Publishing House Ltd., 2002

Wednesday, 30th October 2002 at 19:00
Beit Frankfurter
80 Derech Beit Lechem
Baka'a, Jerusalem

Program
Welcome by Jean Pierre Stroweis,
Chairman Israel Genealogical Society, Jerusalem Branch
Greetings by Mr. M. Greenfield
Publisher, Gefen Publishing House
Introductory remarks by Alex Avraham,
Director of the Hall of Names Yad Vashem
Presentation of the book by the authors, Rose Lerer Cohen and
Saul Issroff.

The Lithuanian Names Project will be discussed:- research,
methodology, compilation of the database, the production of
the book and further relevant research possibilities will be
outlined (in English).

Rose Feldman "Rose Feldman" <rosef@post.tau.ac.il>
Tel-Aviv Branch Program Secretary
Israel Genealogy Society

Saul Issroff

MODERATOR'S NOTE: This work is still available at a special pre-publication price at the JewishGenMall <http://www.jewishgenmall.org/>


Re: The TaZ #rabbinic

gregor brand <Gregor.Brand@...>
 

On 2002.10.22, Larry Tauber <Ltauber@ctswlaw.com> wrote:

4. I have never seen any review of Zuckerman's thesis regarding the
origins of the Narbonne academy and the relationship of R. Moses of
Lucca to Rabbi Machir or the identification of R. Machir with the
defeated Exiliarch candidate Natronai. Some (but not necessarily
all) of Zuckerman's arguments in "A Jewish Princedom" are well
thought out and would explain the tradition that Rashi's maternal
uncle, Rabbi Simeon the Great, was of Davidic descent.
I have read some decades ago several reviews of Prof. Zuckerman´s
book by noted historians in History journals. Although I don´t know
anymore, who the revievers were (I believe Prof. E. Hlawitschka was
one of them), I recall that they unanimously were very critical - to
say the least - about Zuckerman´s main findings and interpretations.
This does of course not necessarily mean that Zuckerman was wrong,
but it is probably not uninteresting to know that most historians in
this field don´t agree with Zuckerman about his arguments presented
in his "Jewish Princedom in Feudal France".

Gregor Brand, Bargstedt, Germany
http://www.angelfire.com/art/gregorbrand


Rabbinic Genealogy SIG #Rabbinic Re: The TaZ #rabbinic

gregor brand <Gregor.Brand@...>
 

On 2002.10.22, Larry Tauber <Ltauber@ctswlaw.com> wrote:

4. I have never seen any review of Zuckerman's thesis regarding the
origins of the Narbonne academy and the relationship of R. Moses of
Lucca to Rabbi Machir or the identification of R. Machir with the
defeated Exiliarch candidate Natronai. Some (but not necessarily
all) of Zuckerman's arguments in "A Jewish Princedom" are well
thought out and would explain the tradition that Rashi's maternal
uncle, Rabbi Simeon the Great, was of Davidic descent.
I have read some decades ago several reviews of Prof. Zuckerman´s
book by noted historians in History journals. Although I don´t know
anymore, who the revievers were (I believe Prof. E. Hlawitschka was
one of them), I recall that they unanimously were very critical - to
say the least - about Zuckerman´s main findings and interpretations.
This does of course not necessarily mean that Zuckerman was wrong,
but it is probably not uninteresting to know that most historians in
this field don´t agree with Zuckerman about his arguments presented
in his "Jewish Princedom in Feudal France".

Gregor Brand, Bargstedt, Germany
http://www.angelfire.com/art/gregorbrand


NATHANSON from Berlin #germany

Udi Cain
 

Dear all.
My mother's maternal great uncle, professor NATHANSON, was asked around
1900 to become the dean of the medicine faculty of the Berlin university.
Since the offer went with the need to become Christian he refused.

Later he became involved in Zionism and visited Eretz Yisrael.

His nephew, my great uncle, Dr. Herman Zvi NATHANSON and his wife, Dr.
Bertha (nee Sulzbacher). headed the migration to Eretz Yisrael at the end
of the 1920s. They settled in Haifa and were among the founders of the
Rothschild Hospital there and he later headed the internal medicine
department of the Rambam Hospital.

I would like any information about any NATHANSON >from Berlin and / or
Hamerschtein. I am also researching BADT >from Maerkisch-Friedland and
Berlin. Best regards.

Udi Cain, Jerusalem.


German SIG #Germany NATHANSON from Berlin #germany

Udi Cain
 

Dear all.
My mother's maternal great uncle, professor NATHANSON, was asked around
1900 to become the dean of the medicine faculty of the Berlin university.
Since the offer went with the need to become Christian he refused.

Later he became involved in Zionism and visited Eretz Yisrael.

His nephew, my great uncle, Dr. Herman Zvi NATHANSON and his wife, Dr.
Bertha (nee Sulzbacher). headed the migration to Eretz Yisrael at the end
of the 1920s. They settled in Haifa and were among the founders of the
Rothschild Hospital there and he later headed the internal medicine
department of the Rambam Hospital.

I would like any information about any NATHANSON >from Berlin and / or
Hamerschtein. I am also researching BADT >from Maerkisch-Friedland and
Berlin. Best regards.

Udi Cain, Jerusalem.


deportation to gurs #germany

jesseo@...
 

Today October22 marks the 62nd anniversary of a widescale deportation of
many Jews in the Heidelberg area of Germany to the concentration camp at
Gurs,France. My grandfather's parents, uncles and cousins were included.
If anyone would share memories of theirs or their family's experience with
this deportation on October 22, 1940 and the life at Gurs, I would greatly
appreciate it. [Private email only, please. See note below.]

Jesse Oppenheimer Los Angeles,Ca <jesseo@iccas.com>

MODERATOR NOTE: You should go to the SIG Archives at:
http://www.jewishgen.org/wconnect/wc.isa?jg~jgsys~sigspop
and also the JGDG archives at:
http://www.jewishgen.org/wconnect/wc.isa?jg~jgsys~sigspop
and search both for the word Gurs.
Search ALL SIGS, not only GerSig.

The JGDG arcives contain 43 messages posted which mention Gurs.
The SIG archives contain 47 messages about half each >from GerSig
and FrenchSIG. MODERATOR


German SIG #Germany deportation to gurs #germany

jesseo@...
 

Today October22 marks the 62nd anniversary of a widescale deportation of
many Jews in the Heidelberg area of Germany to the concentration camp at
Gurs,France. My grandfather's parents, uncles and cousins were included.
If anyone would share memories of theirs or their family's experience with
this deportation on October 22, 1940 and the life at Gurs, I would greatly
appreciate it. [Private email only, please. See note below.]

Jesse Oppenheimer Los Angeles,Ca <jesseo@iccas.com>

MODERATOR NOTE: You should go to the SIG Archives at:
http://www.jewishgen.org/wconnect/wc.isa?jg~jgsys~sigspop
and also the JGDG archives at:
http://www.jewishgen.org/wconnect/wc.isa?jg~jgsys~sigspop
and search both for the word Gurs.
Search ALL SIGS, not only GerSig.

The JGDG arcives contain 43 messages posted which mention Gurs.
The SIG archives contain 47 messages about half each >from GerSig
and FrenchSIG. MODERATOR


leaving Germany in 1941 #germany

Evelyn Pearl <EvelynPearl@...>
 

Hello, I am one of the twins that Carol Baird(my cousin) described in
yesterday's e-mail------there were many problems in getting out at that
time my father had been trying since Kristallnacht----We did get out
legally which is amazing my parents actually have a passport wih the big
red J for Jude-----one of the major problems was that nobody wanted to
take the Jews-----------if there had been an israel than most would have
been saved.

Evelyn Perl <EvelynPearl@webtv.net> New York City

MODERATOR NOTE: This topic is now closed here. I have included this
note >from Evelyn Perl because Ms. Perl operates a book service
that specializes in Holocaust materials. Those interested in reading
more about the NS years can request her latest catalogue. Ms. Perl
did not request that I add this note and I have no business interest
in her service. John Paul Lowens - Moderator
Whose father and grandparents were lucky early immigrants to NYC
6 February 1936 on the last voyage of HMS Majestic.


German SIG #Germany leaving Germany in 1941 #germany

Evelyn Pearl <EvelynPearl@...>
 

Hello, I am one of the twins that Carol Baird(my cousin) described in
yesterday's e-mail------there were many problems in getting out at that
time my father had been trying since Kristallnacht----We did get out
legally which is amazing my parents actually have a passport wih the big
red J for Jude-----one of the major problems was that nobody wanted to
take the Jews-----------if there had been an israel than most would have
been saved.

Evelyn Perl <EvelynPearl@webtv.net> New York City

MODERATOR NOTE: This topic is now closed here. I have included this
note >from Evelyn Perl because Ms. Perl operates a book service
that specializes in Holocaust materials. Those interested in reading
more about the NS years can request her latest catalogue. Ms. Perl
did not request that I add this note and I have no business interest
in her service. John Paul Lowens - Moderator
Whose father and grandparents were lucky early immigrants to NYC
6 February 1936 on the last voyage of HMS Majestic.


Re: The TaZ #rabbinic

Larry Tauber <Ltauber@...>
 

On 2002.10.22, Leslie Reich [mailto:lreich@tiscali.co.uk] wrote:

There is no known familial connection between the Taz and the
Maharsha.

The work 'Mishpochot Atikot' has its uses, but is full of gross
errors.

I have not had access to the Paul Jacobi material, but I do not
believe all the above emanated >from such a careful researcher as he.

There seems to be a typo in his paragraph 3, when he refers to
Rashi's ancestry. Any published account of this should be regarded
as not proven.
Regarding Leslie Reich's reply, I note preliminarily that I was
trying to indicate the traditional genealogies without commenting
on their reliability, while providing some of the sources so that
individuals could research further and make their own determinations
Such traditional genealogies are subject to all the cautions
normally associated with using such Rabbinical traditions, this
being said:

1. The reference to Rashi in the beginning of paragraph 3 is a typo.
The reference was to the TaZ.

2. Concerning the authenticity of the descent of the TaZ >from Shmuel
Hachasid, I have the same reservations regarding their authenticity,
but was merely stating the tradition. In a private reply to another
party I noted the following:

"The ancestry of the TaZ given by Shapiro in Mishpachot Atikot
BeYisrael is traditional and I have seen many variations. Meir
Wunder has one listed as well in Elef Margoliot. They are
drawing on older sources but how accurate they are I cannot say."

3. I do not know the accuracy of R. Shlomo Luria's tradition of the
descent of Rashi's great-grandfather Abun and his descent >from Rabbi
Moses the Elder of Lucca. Rabbi Luria lived in the 16th century and
he was writing about events preceding him by 600 years. There is no
other verification of this tradition and it must be used with
caution.

4. I have never seen any review of Zuckerman's thesis regarding the
origins of the Narbonne academy and the relationship of R. Moses of
Lucca to Rabbi Machir or the identification of R. Machir with the
defeated Exiliarch candidate Natronai. Some (but not necessarily
all) of Zuckerman's arguments in "A Jewish Princedom" are well
thought out and would explain the tradition that Rashi's maternal
uncle, Rabbi Simeon the Great, was of Davidic descent.

5. There is sufficient responsa and other material available
verifying that the TaZ's material grandfather was Isaac b. Bezalel.

I will review for a later posting the Jacobi's materials in my
possession regarding the relationship with the Kalonymus family.

Larry Tauber
mailto:Ltauber@ctswlaw.com


Rabbinic Genealogy SIG #Rabbinic Re: The TaZ #rabbinic

Larry Tauber <Ltauber@...>
 

On 2002.10.22, Leslie Reich [mailto:lreich@tiscali.co.uk] wrote:

There is no known familial connection between the Taz and the
Maharsha.

The work 'Mishpochot Atikot' has its uses, but is full of gross
errors.

I have not had access to the Paul Jacobi material, but I do not
believe all the above emanated >from such a careful researcher as he.

There seems to be a typo in his paragraph 3, when he refers to
Rashi's ancestry. Any published account of this should be regarded
as not proven.
Regarding Leslie Reich's reply, I note preliminarily that I was
trying to indicate the traditional genealogies without commenting
on their reliability, while providing some of the sources so that
individuals could research further and make their own determinations
Such traditional genealogies are subject to all the cautions
normally associated with using such Rabbinical traditions, this
being said:

1. The reference to Rashi in the beginning of paragraph 3 is a typo.
The reference was to the TaZ.

2. Concerning the authenticity of the descent of the TaZ >from Shmuel
Hachasid, I have the same reservations regarding their authenticity,
but was merely stating the tradition. In a private reply to another
party I noted the following:

"The ancestry of the TaZ given by Shapiro in Mishpachot Atikot
BeYisrael is traditional and I have seen many variations. Meir
Wunder has one listed as well in Elef Margoliot. They are
drawing on older sources but how accurate they are I cannot say."

3. I do not know the accuracy of R. Shlomo Luria's tradition of the
descent of Rashi's great-grandfather Abun and his descent >from Rabbi
Moses the Elder of Lucca. Rabbi Luria lived in the 16th century and
he was writing about events preceding him by 600 years. There is no
other verification of this tradition and it must be used with
caution.

4. I have never seen any review of Zuckerman's thesis regarding the
origins of the Narbonne academy and the relationship of R. Moses of
Lucca to Rabbi Machir or the identification of R. Machir with the
defeated Exiliarch candidate Natronai. Some (but not necessarily
all) of Zuckerman's arguments in "A Jewish Princedom" are well
thought out and would explain the tradition that Rashi's maternal
uncle, Rabbi Simeon the Great, was of Davidic descent.

5. There is sufficient responsa and other material available
verifying that the TaZ's material grandfather was Isaac b. Bezalel.

I will review for a later posting the Jacobi's materials in my
possession regarding the relationship with the Kalonymus family.

Larry Tauber
mailto:Ltauber@ctswlaw.com