Date   

Re: Introduction (GOLDSCHMIDT, AUERBACH) #austria-czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

We welcome Scott Leo of Washington D.C., who states in
his introductory posting of 3rd August that he is
relatively new to the group and has only been doing
genealogical research for 8 months. He is looking for
his GOLDSCHMIDT and AUERBACH roots in Bohemia and
possibly, Vienna. His connection to this group is
through one of his gtgt-grandfathers, Edward
GOLDSCHMIDT (1848-1917), born in an unknown location
in Bohemia, who emigrated to the USA and married Sarah
MERZBACH in New York in 1875.

His gtgtgt-grandmother >from Bohemia was Fanny nee
AUERBACH - married to Abraham GOLDSCHMIDT. Their birth
dates would be approx. 1820-1830. ie they would be the
children of babies [or as yet unborn children] in the

1793 census of Bohemia.

I will start with AUERBACH in Bohemia in 1793:

1. Abraham aged 28: son of Isak >from Pilsner Kreis,
Schonwald, living in Muttersdorf, Klattauer Kreis, an
assistant. [Ages are rarely given; Abraham is an
exception].

2. Moyses: Pilsner Kreis - in Stadt Prezschtitz/
Prestice, but belonging to the Schutz of Schonwald
[see 1] - a Cantor.

3.Isak: Pilsner Kreis probably in his 50s - a potash
distiller in Schonwald [see 1 and 2], with three sons
living at home: Lowi, married with baby Abraham;
Isarel [sic] and Josue {sic]. Abraham [see 1] appears
to be a fourth son.

4. Jacob: Elbogner Kreis, Arnitzgrun/Arnoltov, - a
teacher with a wife and two daughters.*

5. Samuel - Bunzlauer Kreis, Jung Bunzlau - a Cantor
with wife and son, Simon.

Statistically, we might assume that Fanny AUERBACH
came >from the Schonwald families, Pilsner Kreis - but
that needs to be verified with documentary evidence.

In the next posting, I will concentrate on GOLDSCHMIDT
and see if there is any correlation between the two
names and the above locations.

We must remember that, as yet, Prague has not been
included in this assessment - so all the data is
incomplete.

Celia Male [U.K.]


* Jacob may well have taught the forebears of our SIG
members, Caryn Adler and Dave Bernard, who both have
ADLER connections in this village in the Elbogen Kreis
[search our message archives with relevant keywords].


Schutzjuden Statistics Bohemia, 1793 - Part 1 #austria-czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

There have been a number of interesting replies to my
Schutzjuden postings and some fascinating family links
have been suspected and confirmed. I will come back to
those links later. Paul King [Israel] was surprised to
hear [I have his permission to quote] that there were
so many Schutzjuden in Pardubitz, Chrudimer Kreis. He
thought they were are much rarer species.

Schutzjuden predated the Familianten Law of 1726; they
were a continuation of the feudal system, which
impacted on Christian peasants in Western Europe in
the Middle Ages - the latter also had to pay tithes to
the feudal landlord.

The Familianten Laws were essentially enacted by the
Church and the Habsburgs to *restrict* the Jewish
population of Bohemia and Moravia [see Footnote 1].
The owners of the Estates [Schutzherren] were
frequently at loggerheads with the authorities about
the Jews on their estates. These owners were often
princes and dukes belonging to very well-known
families. One can read about these constant quarrels
over the centuries [see for example chapter on
Prossnitz in Hugo Gold's "The Jews and Jewish
Communities of Moravia"], where the Lord of the
Manorial Estate tried to *protect* the Jewish
population, presumably to maintain his income.

The Schutzjuden and Familianten systems operated
side-by-side till the Jews were finally emancipated.
I know that the Familianten system was abolished in
1848, and I assume, that this date also applied to the
Schutzjuden.

I checked the number of families with Schutz status in
each of the 16 Kreis of Bohemia. This is analysed in
Footnote 2 below.

Unfortunately, there is no way I can do this
calculation for Moravia. It could be that there are
more non-Schutzjuden in Moravia, where the town-
dwellers may have had a different status. I just do
not know and have no way of finding out. There is a
clue about towns coming >from the entry of Moyses
OESTERREICHER of Herrschaft Reichstadt/Zakupy,
Bunzlauer Kreis, Bohemia: he is originally >from Lieben
and therefore under the Schutz of the *Magistrat* of
the Altstadt of Prague. Perhaps this *Magistrat*
system applied to Moravian towns too?

In Bohemia, a high percentage of the Jews lived on
estates in the countryside. Their Schutz appears to be
based on their place of birth, unless they had bought
a Schutz elsewhere [see previous postings on the
purchasing of Schutz and Familianten positions].

So, who were these non-Schutzjuden? I fine-toothcombed
through the 1793 census of Bohemia to find a pattern
and present my findings in Part II. I have no idea if
my approach is new or has been done in the past and is
lost in the mists of time. I am excited to have
discovered these things and am now beginning, at last,
to get a clearer understanding of the society the
Bohemian, and presumably the Moravian, Jews lived
under in the 18th century.

I hope that the 600 plus members of our Austria-Czech
SIG will also now have the fog lifted >from some of
these obscure areas.

Celia Male [U.K.]

Footnotes:

1. Familianten Law: see
http://www.jewishgen.org/bohmor/familianten.html

2. Number of Schutzjuden families/Kreis.
First figure - families with Schutz status; second
figure - families without Schutz status.

Prachiner 504-56; Berouner 509-7; Tabor 499-38;
Caslauer 559-35; Klattauer 408-27; Rakonitzer 461-22;
Chrudimer 257-38; Pilsner 617-13; Saatzer 382-24;
Koniggratzer 248-6; Leitmeritizer 366-1; Bidshover
273-26; Elbogener 394 - all with Schutz; Bunzlauer
347-46; Budweiser 131-1; Kourimer/Kaurzimer 686-101.

Total 1793: 6,137 Jewish families with Schutz and 385
families without Schutz status
Total number of families = 6,522
Average overall percentage without Schutz = 5.9%

Chrudimer, Kourimer and Bunzlauer Kreis have 14.7%,
14.7% and 13.2% without Schutz respectively - the
highest of all the 16 Kreis.

Prague data not yet available.


Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Re: Introduction (GOLDSCHMIDT, AUERBACH) #austria-czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

We welcome Scott Leo of Washington D.C., who states in
his introductory posting of 3rd August that he is
relatively new to the group and has only been doing
genealogical research for 8 months. He is looking for
his GOLDSCHMIDT and AUERBACH roots in Bohemia and
possibly, Vienna. His connection to this group is
through one of his gtgt-grandfathers, Edward
GOLDSCHMIDT (1848-1917), born in an unknown location
in Bohemia, who emigrated to the USA and married Sarah
MERZBACH in New York in 1875.

His gtgtgt-grandmother >from Bohemia was Fanny nee
AUERBACH - married to Abraham GOLDSCHMIDT. Their birth
dates would be approx. 1820-1830. ie they would be the
children of babies [or as yet unborn children] in the

1793 census of Bohemia.

I will start with AUERBACH in Bohemia in 1793:

1. Abraham aged 28: son of Isak >from Pilsner Kreis,
Schonwald, living in Muttersdorf, Klattauer Kreis, an
assistant. [Ages are rarely given; Abraham is an
exception].

2. Moyses: Pilsner Kreis - in Stadt Prezschtitz/
Prestice, but belonging to the Schutz of Schonwald
[see 1] - a Cantor.

3.Isak: Pilsner Kreis probably in his 50s - a potash
distiller in Schonwald [see 1 and 2], with three sons
living at home: Lowi, married with baby Abraham;
Isarel [sic] and Josue {sic]. Abraham [see 1] appears
to be a fourth son.

4. Jacob: Elbogner Kreis, Arnitzgrun/Arnoltov, - a
teacher with a wife and two daughters.*

5. Samuel - Bunzlauer Kreis, Jung Bunzlau - a Cantor
with wife and son, Simon.

Statistically, we might assume that Fanny AUERBACH
came >from the Schonwald families, Pilsner Kreis - but
that needs to be verified with documentary evidence.

In the next posting, I will concentrate on GOLDSCHMIDT
and see if there is any correlation between the two
names and the above locations.

We must remember that, as yet, Prague has not been
included in this assessment - so all the data is
incomplete.

Celia Male [U.K.]


* Jacob may well have taught the forebears of our SIG
members, Caryn Adler and Dave Bernard, who both have
ADLER connections in this village in the Elbogen Kreis
[search our message archives with relevant keywords].


Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Schutzjuden Statistics Bohemia, 1793 - Part 1 #austria-czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

There have been a number of interesting replies to my
Schutzjuden postings and some fascinating family links
have been suspected and confirmed. I will come back to
those links later. Paul King [Israel] was surprised to
hear [I have his permission to quote] that there were
so many Schutzjuden in Pardubitz, Chrudimer Kreis. He
thought they were are much rarer species.

Schutzjuden predated the Familianten Law of 1726; they
were a continuation of the feudal system, which
impacted on Christian peasants in Western Europe in
the Middle Ages - the latter also had to pay tithes to
the feudal landlord.

The Familianten Laws were essentially enacted by the
Church and the Habsburgs to *restrict* the Jewish
population of Bohemia and Moravia [see Footnote 1].
The owners of the Estates [Schutzherren] were
frequently at loggerheads with the authorities about
the Jews on their estates. These owners were often
princes and dukes belonging to very well-known
families. One can read about these constant quarrels
over the centuries [see for example chapter on
Prossnitz in Hugo Gold's "The Jews and Jewish
Communities of Moravia"], where the Lord of the
Manorial Estate tried to *protect* the Jewish
population, presumably to maintain his income.

The Schutzjuden and Familianten systems operated
side-by-side till the Jews were finally emancipated.
I know that the Familianten system was abolished in
1848, and I assume, that this date also applied to the
Schutzjuden.

I checked the number of families with Schutz status in
each of the 16 Kreis of Bohemia. This is analysed in
Footnote 2 below.

Unfortunately, there is no way I can do this
calculation for Moravia. It could be that there are
more non-Schutzjuden in Moravia, where the town-
dwellers may have had a different status. I just do
not know and have no way of finding out. There is a
clue about towns coming >from the entry of Moyses
OESTERREICHER of Herrschaft Reichstadt/Zakupy,
Bunzlauer Kreis, Bohemia: he is originally >from Lieben
and therefore under the Schutz of the *Magistrat* of
the Altstadt of Prague. Perhaps this *Magistrat*
system applied to Moravian towns too?

In Bohemia, a high percentage of the Jews lived on
estates in the countryside. Their Schutz appears to be
based on their place of birth, unless they had bought
a Schutz elsewhere [see previous postings on the
purchasing of Schutz and Familianten positions].

So, who were these non-Schutzjuden? I fine-toothcombed
through the 1793 census of Bohemia to find a pattern
and present my findings in Part II. I have no idea if
my approach is new or has been done in the past and is
lost in the mists of time. I am excited to have
discovered these things and am now beginning, at last,
to get a clearer understanding of the society the
Bohemian, and presumably the Moravian, Jews lived
under in the 18th century.

I hope that the 600 plus members of our Austria-Czech
SIG will also now have the fog lifted >from some of
these obscure areas.

Celia Male [U.K.]

Footnotes:

1. Familianten Law: see
http://www.jewishgen.org/bohmor/familianten.html

2. Number of Schutzjuden families/Kreis.
First figure - families with Schutz status; second
figure - families without Schutz status.

Prachiner 504-56; Berouner 509-7; Tabor 499-38;
Caslauer 559-35; Klattauer 408-27; Rakonitzer 461-22;
Chrudimer 257-38; Pilsner 617-13; Saatzer 382-24;
Koniggratzer 248-6; Leitmeritizer 366-1; Bidshover
273-26; Elbogener 394 - all with Schutz; Bunzlauer
347-46; Budweiser 131-1; Kourimer/Kaurzimer 686-101.

Total 1793: 6,137 Jewish families with Schutz and 385
families without Schutz status
Total number of families = 6,522
Average overall percentage without Schutz = 5.9%

Chrudimer, Kourimer and Bunzlauer Kreis have 14.7%,
14.7% and 13.2% without Schutz respectively - the
highest of all the 16 Kreis.

Prague data not yet available.


Posting courtesy on JewishGen #general

Sally Goodman <sbgoody@...>
 

Ann Rabinowitz wrote:
It is courteous to copy the original poster to ensure that he/she reads your
response.
Stan Goodman wrote:
Are you saying that one who responds to a query is in some sense
obligated to also send the questioner a copy of his reply?....
It is not necessary to patronize him by sending him an additional
personal "engraved" copy of each reply.
Whoa! I was just about to thank Ann for the suggestion when Stan's message
through me for a loop.

Lighten up folks. We are here to help one another not be sarcastic or
criticize. By no means did I read in Ann's message that one who responds to
a query is *obligated* to also send the questioner a copy of the reply. It
seems to me to be a courteous thing to do. Frankly, I never thought to do it
myself, but I have often missed a response and would have appreciated a
copy.

If you don't want to send a copy, don't. If you don't want to read a
message, delete it. But, please let's treat each other with respect.
--
Sally Goodman
Palm Springs/LA, CA

Researching:
ABELES Vienna, San Francisco; BROWN/GROSS Schenectady, NY; CARDOZO London,
Rochester, NYC; GOITMAN Kishinev, Tiraspol; HAYS Germany, Rochester, NYC;
KIRSCHBAUM Jaroslaw, Vienna; MANDELBERG Jaroslaw, Vienna, Berlin; MUHLSTEIN
Rzeszow, Vienna; NEUSPIEL, Nikolsburg, Moravia; Vienna & Hollabrunn Austria;
RESHOWER Austria, Germany, NYC; ROSENSTOCK Stryj, Rzeszow, Jaroslaw;
SELIGMAN Germany, Rochester, NYC; STEIN Stryj, Vienna.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Posting courtesy on JewishGen #general

Sally Goodman <sbgoody@...>
 

Ann Rabinowitz wrote:
It is courteous to copy the original poster to ensure that he/she reads your
response.
Stan Goodman wrote:
Are you saying that one who responds to a query is in some sense
obligated to also send the questioner a copy of his reply?....
It is not necessary to patronize him by sending him an additional
personal "engraved" copy of each reply.
Whoa! I was just about to thank Ann for the suggestion when Stan's message
through me for a loop.

Lighten up folks. We are here to help one another not be sarcastic or
criticize. By no means did I read in Ann's message that one who responds to
a query is *obligated* to also send the questioner a copy of the reply. It
seems to me to be a courteous thing to do. Frankly, I never thought to do it
myself, but I have often missed a response and would have appreciated a
copy.

If you don't want to send a copy, don't. If you don't want to read a
message, delete it. But, please let's treat each other with respect.
--
Sally Goodman
Palm Springs/LA, CA

Researching:
ABELES Vienna, San Francisco; BROWN/GROSS Schenectady, NY; CARDOZO London,
Rochester, NYC; GOITMAN Kishinev, Tiraspol; HAYS Germany, Rochester, NYC;
KIRSCHBAUM Jaroslaw, Vienna; MANDELBERG Jaroslaw, Vienna, Berlin; MUHLSTEIN
Rzeszow, Vienna; NEUSPIEL, Nikolsburg, Moravia; Vienna & Hollabrunn Austria;
RESHOWER Austria, Germany, NYC; ROSENSTOCK Stryj, Rzeszow, Jaroslaw;
SELIGMAN Germany, Rochester, NYC; STEIN Stryj, Vienna.


Moldova-need contact to visit Kishinev #general

Sally Goodman <sbgoody@...>
 

I suggest you contact Chabad. They are *always* helpful and they have contacts
in Kishinev and everywhere else in the world. One does not have to be a
Chabadnik or Orthodox or even Jewish.

If you Google Chabad in Kishinev you will get 875 responses.
--
Sally Goodman
Palm Springs/LA, CA

Researching:
ABELES Vienna, San Francisco; BROWN/GROSS Schenectady, NY; CARDOZO London,
Rochester, NYC; GOITMAN Kishinev, Tiraspol; HAYS Germany, Rochester, NYC;
KIRSCHBAUM Jaroslaw, Vienna; MANDELBERG Jaroslaw, Vienna, Berlin; MUHLSTEIN
Rzeszow, Vienna; NEUSPIEL, Nikolsburg, Moravia; Vienna & Hollabrunn Austria;
RESHOWER Austria, Germany, NYC; ROSENSTOCK Stryj, Rzeszow, Jaroslaw;
SELIGMAN Germany, Rochester, NYC; STEIN Stryj, Vienna.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Moldova-need contact to visit Kishinev #general

Sally Goodman <sbgoody@...>
 

I suggest you contact Chabad. They are *always* helpful and they have contacts
in Kishinev and everywhere else in the world. One does not have to be a
Chabadnik or Orthodox or even Jewish.

If you Google Chabad in Kishinev you will get 875 responses.
--
Sally Goodman
Palm Springs/LA, CA

Researching:
ABELES Vienna, San Francisco; BROWN/GROSS Schenectady, NY; CARDOZO London,
Rochester, NYC; GOITMAN Kishinev, Tiraspol; HAYS Germany, Rochester, NYC;
KIRSCHBAUM Jaroslaw, Vienna; MANDELBERG Jaroslaw, Vienna, Berlin; MUHLSTEIN
Rzeszow, Vienna; NEUSPIEL, Nikolsburg, Moravia; Vienna & Hollabrunn Austria;
RESHOWER Austria, Germany, NYC; ROSENSTOCK Stryj, Rzeszow, Jaroslaw;
SELIGMAN Germany, Rochester, NYC; STEIN Stryj, Vienna.


MANNHEIMER from Frankfurt #germany

Nelly Marksitzer <marksitzer@...>
 

Hello to all,
I received some documents >from the archive in Frankfurt and now I'm looking
for the descendants of

Abraham MANNHEIMER d. March 1897 and Adelheid MANNHEIMER maiden name
ODENHEIMER d. April 1904 and she was born in Emmendingen 1836.

Is there any connection to somebody in our group?

Thank you for your assistance.

Nelly Marksitzer, Zurich, Switzerland marksitzer@freesurf.ch


German SIG #Germany MANNHEIMER from Frankfurt #germany

Nelly Marksitzer <marksitzer@...>
 

Hello to all,
I received some documents >from the archive in Frankfurt and now I'm looking
for the descendants of

Abraham MANNHEIMER d. March 1897 and Adelheid MANNHEIMER maiden name
ODENHEIMER d. April 1904 and she was born in Emmendingen 1836.

Is there any connection to somebody in our group?

Thank you for your assistance.

Nelly Marksitzer, Zurich, Switzerland marksitzer@freesurf.ch


Seeking Wilhelm H.GOETZ Neunkirchen / Neuenkirche b. 15 July 1834 #germany

jaksan@...
 

I have previously requested any info on my ggrandfather Wilhelm H.GOETZ in
Magdeburg, Germany, born 15 July, 1834, and coming to USA in 1852. I
recently returned >from Germany (this week) and have learned that he may have
been located in Neuenkirche,(now Neunkirchen),Germany. I would like to find
info on him or possibly any relatives in that area also if there is a
"registrar" in that city?

Jack Dee, Kansas, USA <jaksan@cox.net>


German SIG #Germany Seeking Wilhelm H.GOETZ Neunkirchen / Neuenkirche b. 15 July 1834 #germany

jaksan@...
 

I have previously requested any info on my ggrandfather Wilhelm H.GOETZ in
Magdeburg, Germany, born 15 July, 1834, and coming to USA in 1852. I
recently returned >from Germany (this week) and have learned that he may have
been located in Neuenkirche,(now Neunkirchen),Germany. I would like to find
info on him or possibly any relatives in that area also if there is a
"registrar" in that city?

Jack Dee, Kansas, USA <jaksan@cox.net>


SITE CITE: Breslau/Wroclaw digital library #germany

Logan J. Kleinwaks
 

There is a nascent digital library at the Politechnika Wroclawska
(http://dlib.bg.pwr.wroc.pl/dlibra). It is organized similarly to the
Digital Library of Wielkopolska, which has digitized and posted online many
useful Polish business directories (see earlier posts). Unfortunately, it
seems that this library has not digitized any items of genealogical
interest, yet, but it might be worth monitoring for those with an interest
in the area. Perhaps, it might also be useful to contact the digital
library and request that certain types of books be digitized (such as
directories, histories of the area, Jewish-interest items, etc.). Best regards,

Logan Kleinwaks kleinwaks@alumni.princeton.edu near Washington, D.C.


German SIG #Germany SITE CITE: Breslau/Wroclaw digital library #germany

Logan J. Kleinwaks
 

There is a nascent digital library at the Politechnika Wroclawska
(http://dlib.bg.pwr.wroc.pl/dlibra). It is organized similarly to the
Digital Library of Wielkopolska, which has digitized and posted online many
useful Polish business directories (see earlier posts). Unfortunately, it
seems that this library has not digitized any items of genealogical
interest, yet, but it might be worth monitoring for those with an interest
in the area. Perhaps, it might also be useful to contact the digital
library and request that certain types of books be digitized (such as
directories, histories of the area, Jewish-interest items, etc.). Best regards,

Logan Kleinwaks kleinwaks@alumni.princeton.edu near Washington, D.C.


Surname searching online for UK vital records? #general

alexallen@...
 

My maternal grandmother left Bessarabia in the early 1900s, following several
aunts, sisters and brothers to London (where they settled), and she eventually
on to New York. I have been unsuccessful in locationg an online index for
searching UK immigration, naturalisation, marriage, birth or death records
by surname online? I read the Beginner's Guide to Jewish Genealogy in Great
Britain pamphlet that I bought at a Jewishgen convention & I've examined the
[familyrecords.gov.uk] site. Both suggest that you can search for surnames
online, but I'm stumped on locating an index (along the lines of JRI-Poland)
of records that are available for any of those categories of vital documents.
Any assistance will appreciated.

Allen HAUSMAN
Researcher 14033
Alexandria, VA
Researching: BADERMAN and MILSTEIN >from Russia


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Surname searching online for UK vital records? #general

alexallen@...
 

My maternal grandmother left Bessarabia in the early 1900s, following several
aunts, sisters and brothers to London (where they settled), and she eventually
on to New York. I have been unsuccessful in locationg an online index for
searching UK immigration, naturalisation, marriage, birth or death records
by surname online? I read the Beginner's Guide to Jewish Genealogy in Great
Britain pamphlet that I bought at a Jewishgen convention & I've examined the
[familyrecords.gov.uk] site. Both suggest that you can search for surnames
online, but I'm stumped on locating an index (along the lines of JRI-Poland)
of records that are available for any of those categories of vital documents.
Any assistance will appreciated.

Allen HAUSMAN
Researcher 14033
Alexandria, VA
Researching: BADERMAN and MILSTEIN >from Russia


Re: Posting Courtesy on JewishGen #general

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Ann Rabinowitz writes with a de-facto statement:
"When you are responding to a posting on the JewishGen
or other digests, please do not copy everyone who has
also responded to this posting. They can easily read
the followup responses on the digest themselves if they
are interested. It is courteous to copy the original
poster to ensure that he/she reads your response."

May I be permitted to present a completely opposite
point of view?

When I reply to a posting initially, I always include
the original correspondent in my address list. The
reasons for this are manifold - first and foremost, a
personal touch and out of *courtesy*; secondly, a
posting in a digest does not register the name of the
correspondent in my address book however, when I send
them a mail, their name is recorded in my address book
and I can immediately cross-index it with a subject,
date, names and places for further links if they ever
should arise - otherwise I have to wrack my brains and
search the message archives. Thirdly, my reply may not
be published - i.e. the moderators may reject it - how
then would the correspondent see it and it may indeed
be of interest to them!

Fourthly, I may also network the message to others who
have similar interests and do not receive the digest.
They might be included in a bcc list. I know that the
General Discussion Group Digest is received by very
few Austria-Czech members. I presume the same
situation appertains to members of other SIGs.

Good genealogy thrives on links, side-branches,
observation, good memory and clear and careful
recording. Good memory can fail us all at times.
Networking, via the internet is a dream for good
genealogy.

Similarly, were someone to reply to one of my
postings, I would expect them out of *courtesy*, to
add my name to the cc or bcc list. I would like to
receive a reply *before* it appears in the digest! I
would also like to be included in follow up
correspondence off-list if it occurs and would like to
record names of others interested in the same topic in
my address book for further links.

It is easy to write a polite note saying one is no
longer interested in the subject and one wishes to be
removed >from a cc/bcc list of correspondents, but it
is not easy to find out if a mail is circulating which
could be of interest to you and others you know - and
these mails could be mainly "off-list" by then.

So, although I respect everyone's personal point of
view, to make such a dogmatic, de-facto statement to
cover the whole of Jewishgen digests, is to my mind
not in the interests of good genealogy.

And finally, it is also easy to miss a reply in a long
digest - this has happened before - I know from
personal experience!

Celia Male [U.K.]


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen re: Posting Courtesy on JewishGen #general

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Ann Rabinowitz writes with a de-facto statement:
"When you are responding to a posting on the JewishGen
or other digests, please do not copy everyone who has
also responded to this posting. They can easily read
the followup responses on the digest themselves if they
are interested. It is courteous to copy the original
poster to ensure that he/she reads your response."

May I be permitted to present a completely opposite
point of view?

When I reply to a posting initially, I always include
the original correspondent in my address list. The
reasons for this are manifold - first and foremost, a
personal touch and out of *courtesy*; secondly, a
posting in a digest does not register the name of the
correspondent in my address book however, when I send
them a mail, their name is recorded in my address book
and I can immediately cross-index it with a subject,
date, names and places for further links if they ever
should arise - otherwise I have to wrack my brains and
search the message archives. Thirdly, my reply may not
be published - i.e. the moderators may reject it - how
then would the correspondent see it and it may indeed
be of interest to them!

Fourthly, I may also network the message to others who
have similar interests and do not receive the digest.
They might be included in a bcc list. I know that the
General Discussion Group Digest is received by very
few Austria-Czech members. I presume the same
situation appertains to members of other SIGs.

Good genealogy thrives on links, side-branches,
observation, good memory and clear and careful
recording. Good memory can fail us all at times.
Networking, via the internet is a dream for good
genealogy.

Similarly, were someone to reply to one of my
postings, I would expect them out of *courtesy*, to
add my name to the cc or bcc list. I would like to
receive a reply *before* it appears in the digest! I
would also like to be included in follow up
correspondence off-list if it occurs and would like to
record names of others interested in the same topic in
my address book for further links.

It is easy to write a polite note saying one is no
longer interested in the subject and one wishes to be
removed >from a cc/bcc list of correspondents, but it
is not easy to find out if a mail is circulating which
could be of interest to you and others you know - and
these mails could be mainly "off-list" by then.

So, although I respect everyone's personal point of
view, to make such a dogmatic, de-facto statement to
cover the whole of Jewishgen digests, is to my mind
not in the interests of good genealogy.

And finally, it is also easy to miss a reply in a long
digest - this has happened before - I know from
personal experience!

Celia Male [U.K.]


Moderator ** off ** duty Saturday and Sunday #germany

JPLowens@...
 

Your Moderator will attend the wedding of his only niece this weekend and may
not have Internet access.

If you don't receive GerSIG emails on 27 and 28 August please forgive me.
GerSIG will be back on Monday latest.

John Paul Lowens, "MOD 1"


German SIG #Germany Moderator ** off ** duty Saturday and Sunday #germany

JPLowens@...
 

Your Moderator will attend the wedding of his only niece this weekend and may
not have Internet access.

If you don't receive GerSIG emails on 27 and 28 August please forgive me.
GerSIG will be back on Monday latest.

John Paul Lowens, "MOD 1"