Date   

Mixed marriage in Prussia, 1865? #germany

Roger Lustig <trovato@...>
 

First the background: this is about my father's great-uncle Wilhelm
SCHROEDER. As family history had it, he'd converted to Judaism when he
married my great-great-aunt. He was a baker by trade, and was said to
have made the best Barches (challah) in town. My father said so, and
he'd had some on occasion...

Surprise! While transcribing the Jewish civil birth records of
Myslowitz, Upper Silesia (Myslowice in Polish), I came across--Uncle
Schroeder! He was born Wilhelm ALTSCHUELER. (The date--8 May 1858-- checks out.)
His mother was Jettel A., widow of the master baker Israel A. Her maiden name
was BERLINER, and she came >from Sohrau. (All that checks out too.)

Israel ALTSCHUELER had died 6 years before, so he wasn't the father.
Besides, the entry says "extramaritally". But in the margin, we read
that he was legitimized by the subsequent marriage of his mother to the
master baker Johann Peter Christian Carl SCHROEDER on 21 July 1865.
Even stranger, the marriage is recorded in the Myslowitz Jewish civil
marriage register, the groom presenting all four of his given names.

Leaving aside what the various families would have thought about these
events, I have the following questions:

--When was mixed marriage even legalized in Prussia? After 1874 civil
marriage was possible regardless of religion; but was that the case in
the Kingdom of Prussia 10 years earlier?

--Under what conditions was a marriage entered in the
administrative-court Jewish vital records? When either party was
Jewish? When both were? When there had also been a Jewish marriage
ceremony?

By the way, both bride and groom were 46 when they married, so there's
little point in looking for children born after then. Someday I may
check the Myslowitz church records (probably Lutheran, since JPCC
Schroeder's family came >from Schleswig) to see whether mother or son
were actually baptized. Until then, however, I'm left wondering just
what the circumstances *could* have been.

Any and all ideas as to where one might look would be appreciated.

Roger Lustig Princeton, NJ <trovato@verizon.net>


German SIG #Germany Mixed marriage in Prussia, 1865? #germany

Roger Lustig <trovato@...>
 

First the background: this is about my father's great-uncle Wilhelm
SCHROEDER. As family history had it, he'd converted to Judaism when he
married my great-great-aunt. He was a baker by trade, and was said to
have made the best Barches (challah) in town. My father said so, and
he'd had some on occasion...

Surprise! While transcribing the Jewish civil birth records of
Myslowitz, Upper Silesia (Myslowice in Polish), I came across--Uncle
Schroeder! He was born Wilhelm ALTSCHUELER. (The date--8 May 1858-- checks out.)
His mother was Jettel A., widow of the master baker Israel A. Her maiden name
was BERLINER, and she came >from Sohrau. (All that checks out too.)

Israel ALTSCHUELER had died 6 years before, so he wasn't the father.
Besides, the entry says "extramaritally". But in the margin, we read
that he was legitimized by the subsequent marriage of his mother to the
master baker Johann Peter Christian Carl SCHROEDER on 21 July 1865.
Even stranger, the marriage is recorded in the Myslowitz Jewish civil
marriage register, the groom presenting all four of his given names.

Leaving aside what the various families would have thought about these
events, I have the following questions:

--When was mixed marriage even legalized in Prussia? After 1874 civil
marriage was possible regardless of religion; but was that the case in
the Kingdom of Prussia 10 years earlier?

--Under what conditions was a marriage entered in the
administrative-court Jewish vital records? When either party was
Jewish? When both were? When there had also been a Jewish marriage
ceremony?

By the way, both bride and groom were 46 when they married, so there's
little point in looking for children born after then. Someday I may
check the Myslowitz church records (probably Lutheran, since JPCC
Schroeder's family came >from Schleswig) to see whether mother or son
were actually baptized. Until then, however, I'm left wondering just
what the circumstances *could* have been.

Any and all ideas as to where one might look would be appreciated.

Roger Lustig Princeton, NJ <trovato@verizon.net>


Re: INTRO - researching GOLDVOGEL / GOLDFOGEL family from Hannover #germany

Lars Menk <Lmenk@...>
 

Bessie Ann BELL wrote on GERSIG:
My primary research goals now are to find out more about the history of
Hannover and the GOLDVOGELs' history there and where they might have lived
before that.
The literal meaning of the German-Jewish surname GOLDVOGEL is "golden bird";
"Goldvogel" also figuratively designates either a rich person or a gold coin
(which can fly out of someone's hands like a bird).

Five men named GOLDVOGEL or GOLDFOGEL, all born in Bavaria (as stated in the
U.S. census records), emigrated to the USA in the 1840's and 1850's.

Three of them - possibly brothers - settled with their families in New York
City (Manhattan):
- Nathan GOLDVOGEL, b. ca. 1804 (1840 in NYC)
- Israel GOLDVOGEL, b. ca. 1808 (1848 in NYC)
- Meyer GOLDVOGEL, b. abt. 1810 (1848 in NYC)

while the other two went to Cincinnati, OH:
- Samuel GOLDVOGEL, b. ca. 1816 (1848 >from Bremen to NYC, 1854 in
Cincinnati)
- Moses GOLDFOGEL, b. ca. 1810 (1860 in Cincinnati)

It seems that most of them had lived outside of Bavaria for a while before
emigrating, e.g. Israel GOLDVOGEL in the kingdom of Hannover (1842/44) and
Meyer GOLDVOGEL in the duchy of Braunschweig (Brunswick). [The information
given in the census record >from 1860 about Israel GOLDVOGEL being born in
Hannover is most likely incorrect, and in 1870 he confirmed that he was born
in Bavaria, while his wife Sarah was born in Hannover.]

One Samuel GOLDFOGEL >from Weisbach was wanted by the Prussian police some
time between 1820 and 1833 (cf.
http://home.foni.net/~herumstreifer/verbrech13.htm).

The village of Weisbach, today a part of the municipality of Oberelsbach in
the Bavarian Kreis (district) of Rhön-Grabfeld, had a small Jewish
population of 22 persons in 1813 and belonged to the synagogue community of
Oberelsbach. It is well possible that all the above named persons were born
in Weisbach or a place nearby. [You can see a pittoresque photo of Weisbach
at http://www.oberelsbach-online.de/index.php?id=5,0,0,1,0,0 ]

Mr. Reinhold Albert is the person officially in charge of the research of
regional history in the Rhön-Grabfeld district:

Reinhold Albert
Schloßstraße 42
97528 Sulzdorf a.d.L. - OT Sternberg / Germany
fax +49-9763 9300005
e-mail reinholdalbert@t-online.de

To my shame I have to admit that the surname GOLDVOGEL can not be found in
my dictionary of German-Jewish surnames.

Kind regards & Shalom,

Lars Menk Berlin, Germany Lmenk@gmx.net


German SIG #Germany Re: INTRO - researching GOLDVOGEL / GOLDFOGEL family from Hannover #germany

Lars Menk <Lmenk@...>
 

Bessie Ann BELL wrote on GERSIG:
My primary research goals now are to find out more about the history of
Hannover and the GOLDVOGELs' history there and where they might have lived
before that.
The literal meaning of the German-Jewish surname GOLDVOGEL is "golden bird";
"Goldvogel" also figuratively designates either a rich person or a gold coin
(which can fly out of someone's hands like a bird).

Five men named GOLDVOGEL or GOLDFOGEL, all born in Bavaria (as stated in the
U.S. census records), emigrated to the USA in the 1840's and 1850's.

Three of them - possibly brothers - settled with their families in New York
City (Manhattan):
- Nathan GOLDVOGEL, b. ca. 1804 (1840 in NYC)
- Israel GOLDVOGEL, b. ca. 1808 (1848 in NYC)
- Meyer GOLDVOGEL, b. abt. 1810 (1848 in NYC)

while the other two went to Cincinnati, OH:
- Samuel GOLDVOGEL, b. ca. 1816 (1848 >from Bremen to NYC, 1854 in
Cincinnati)
- Moses GOLDFOGEL, b. ca. 1810 (1860 in Cincinnati)

It seems that most of them had lived outside of Bavaria for a while before
emigrating, e.g. Israel GOLDVOGEL in the kingdom of Hannover (1842/44) and
Meyer GOLDVOGEL in the duchy of Braunschweig (Brunswick). [The information
given in the census record >from 1860 about Israel GOLDVOGEL being born in
Hannover is most likely incorrect, and in 1870 he confirmed that he was born
in Bavaria, while his wife Sarah was born in Hannover.]

One Samuel GOLDFOGEL >from Weisbach was wanted by the Prussian police some
time between 1820 and 1833 (cf.
http://home.foni.net/~herumstreifer/verbrech13.htm).

The village of Weisbach, today a part of the municipality of Oberelsbach in
the Bavarian Kreis (district) of Rhön-Grabfeld, had a small Jewish
population of 22 persons in 1813 and belonged to the synagogue community of
Oberelsbach. It is well possible that all the above named persons were born
in Weisbach or a place nearby. [You can see a pittoresque photo of Weisbach
at http://www.oberelsbach-online.de/index.php?id=5,0,0,1,0,0 ]

Mr. Reinhold Albert is the person officially in charge of the research of
regional history in the Rhön-Grabfeld district:

Reinhold Albert
Schloßstraße 42
97528 Sulzdorf a.d.L. - OT Sternberg / Germany
fax +49-9763 9300005
e-mail reinholdalbert@t-online.de

To my shame I have to admit that the surname GOLDVOGEL can not be found in
my dictionary of German-Jewish surnames.

Kind regards & Shalom,

Lars Menk Berlin, Germany Lmenk@gmx.net


Re: Arolsen archives #germany

Lande
 

I don't want to beat this subject to death, but the German comments
contained in the Spiegel article are misleading. At the international
meeting which took place earlier this week, Germany stood alone in
continuing to block any action to open Arolsen. The German representative
cited German archival law, which in fact is irrelevant since Arolsen
material is not subject to German law. European countries and the United
States strongly objected to the German position. Although ten of the 11
countries at the meeting favored opening, nothing happened since the
tradition in Arolsen is unanimity (the agreement itself does not provide for
this). In closing I would only assert that to deny names to the millions
who perished in the Holocaust is to deny their existence. It is, de facto,
a second Holocaust.

Anyone wishing further information on Arolsen and/or the text of the
agreement being blocked by Germany may contact me privately.

Peter Lande Washington, D.C. <pdlande@starpower.net>


German SIG #Germany Re: Arolsen archives #germany

Lande
 

I don't want to beat this subject to death, but the German comments
contained in the Spiegel article are misleading. At the international
meeting which took place earlier this week, Germany stood alone in
continuing to block any action to open Arolsen. The German representative
cited German archival law, which in fact is irrelevant since Arolsen
material is not subject to German law. European countries and the United
States strongly objected to the German position. Although ten of the 11
countries at the meeting favored opening, nothing happened since the
tradition in Arolsen is unanimity (the agreement itself does not provide for
this). In closing I would only assert that to deny names to the millions
who perished in the Holocaust is to deny their existence. It is, de facto,
a second Holocaust.

Anyone wishing further information on Arolsen and/or the text of the
agreement being blocked by Germany may contact me privately.

Peter Lande Washington, D.C. <pdlande@starpower.net>


Trying to locate MAILSHANKER brothers #general

H Duboff
 

B"H

Hi, JewishGenners.

I just found the names of two relatives (they are brothers--they are
my first cousins, twice removed) that nobody in the family knew about.
I would love to contact them.

They are Irvin MAILSHANKER, born in 1920, and Leon MAILSHANKER, born
in 1916. Their father was Morris MAILSHANKER.

All parties concerned lived in Philadelphia, PA. I've located them in
the Census records as well as Morris' WWI draft card.

I discovered that they both are WWII veterans; I've made numerous
postings on Veterans' websites; I've tried contacting the Jewish War
Veterans--with no response back >from them. I've checked the Social
Security death index with negative results. I've been checking tax
records for those places that allow such checks by name.

As to the listings that I found on the NARA website relative to the
WWII military service, I contacted the National Personnel Records
Center; they were able to supply some limited information on the
brothers' U. S. Army service.

Irvin MAILSHANKER was a Technician Fifth Grade in the U. S. Army, and
served >from June, 1943 to December, 1945. He was assigned to Fort
Dix, NJ.

Leon MAILSHANKER was a Corporal in the U. S. Army, and served >from May
1941 to August 1945. He was assigned to Company M 301st Infantry
Regiment, 94th Infantry Division. Based on the list of awards he
received, it appears that he saw combat overseas.

I've contacted the 94th Infantry Division Association, with negative results.

Does anybody know them? I am familiar with all of the MAILSHANKERs
that are listed in http://www.peoplefinder.com as well as the
http://www.zabasearch.com listings (the letter to the Wm MAILSHANKER
listing came back as undeliverable).

Any leads or ideas would be appreciated!

--
Henoch Duboff
Milwaukee, WI

Researching: FAERSTEIN, TICHNER; (Skalo - Austria);
MAILSHANKER/MELSZENKER (Grading/Gorodok Podol. and Buenos Aires -
Argentina); OBLETZ, ROSOFF (Dokshytz - Belarus) ; PINTOV, FINN
(Gluboko - Vilna); RAFKIN/RAVKIN (Dwinsk - Russia); ZEMBLE (Lushnitz -
Russia);DUBOWY (Zalocie - Austria)


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Trying to locate MAILSHANKER brothers #general

H Duboff
 

B"H

Hi, JewishGenners.

I just found the names of two relatives (they are brothers--they are
my first cousins, twice removed) that nobody in the family knew about.
I would love to contact them.

They are Irvin MAILSHANKER, born in 1920, and Leon MAILSHANKER, born
in 1916. Their father was Morris MAILSHANKER.

All parties concerned lived in Philadelphia, PA. I've located them in
the Census records as well as Morris' WWI draft card.

I discovered that they both are WWII veterans; I've made numerous
postings on Veterans' websites; I've tried contacting the Jewish War
Veterans--with no response back >from them. I've checked the Social
Security death index with negative results. I've been checking tax
records for those places that allow such checks by name.

As to the listings that I found on the NARA website relative to the
WWII military service, I contacted the National Personnel Records
Center; they were able to supply some limited information on the
brothers' U. S. Army service.

Irvin MAILSHANKER was a Technician Fifth Grade in the U. S. Army, and
served >from June, 1943 to December, 1945. He was assigned to Fort
Dix, NJ.

Leon MAILSHANKER was a Corporal in the U. S. Army, and served >from May
1941 to August 1945. He was assigned to Company M 301st Infantry
Regiment, 94th Infantry Division. Based on the list of awards he
received, it appears that he saw combat overseas.

I've contacted the 94th Infantry Division Association, with negative results.

Does anybody know them? I am familiar with all of the MAILSHANKERs
that are listed in http://www.peoplefinder.com as well as the
http://www.zabasearch.com listings (the letter to the Wm MAILSHANKER
listing came back as undeliverable).

Any leads or ideas would be appreciated!

--
Henoch Duboff
Milwaukee, WI

Researching: FAERSTEIN, TICHNER; (Skalo - Austria);
MAILSHANKER/MELSZENKER (Grading/Gorodok Podol. and Buenos Aires -
Argentina); OBLETZ, ROSOFF (Dokshytz - Belarus) ; PINTOV, FINN
(Gluboko - Vilna); RAFKIN/RAVKIN (Dwinsk - Russia); ZEMBLE (Lushnitz -
Russia);DUBOWY (Zalocie - Austria)


Jewish Populations of the World #general

robert fraser <robertandginafraser@...>
 

Dear Genners -

My attention has been drawn to this website, which has links to a vast
quantity of information on Jewish populations. I have no interest in the
site and can't vouch for it's accuracy, but it's worth at least a look. It
isn't "genealogical", per se, but has useful historical and related
material.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/jewpop.html#top

Robert W Fraser
Dianella, Western Australia
robertandginafraser@iinet.net.au


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Jewish Populations of the World #general

robert fraser <robertandginafraser@...>
 

Dear Genners -

My attention has been drawn to this website, which has links to a vast
quantity of information on Jewish populations. I have no interest in the
site and can't vouch for it's accuracy, but it's worth at least a look. It
isn't "genealogical", per se, but has useful historical and related
material.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/jewpop.html#top

Robert W Fraser
Dianella, Western Australia
robertandginafraser@iinet.net.au


Joseph FUCHS #general

Allyn Winchester <awin@...>
 

Am desperately trying to find my great grandparents graves in Poland -
Breslau . His name was Joseph FUCHS and he was married to Rosalie STERN. We
have a faded letter >from the Breslau Synagoguw on the occasion of their 50th
wedding anniversay. The name changes are the hardest for me to decipher and
I really don"t know how to progress. I am determined to find their graves
and what has happened to my mothers family. Please, please help. Thank yo
Dr Carolyn Winchester, Durban, South Africa


yerachmiel #general

Rose Feldman <rosef@...>
 

My father's name was Yerachmiel - born in the Ukraine in 1906. When he went
to France to study he got the name Emile. In the States 40 years later he
was Emil. My mother called him Rachmiel.
So there are instances where Rachmiel was "relatively" short for Yerachmiel.

Rose Feldman
Tel-Aviv


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Joseph FUCHS #general

Allyn Winchester <awin@...>
 

Am desperately trying to find my great grandparents graves in Poland -
Breslau . His name was Joseph FUCHS and he was married to Rosalie STERN. We
have a faded letter >from the Breslau Synagoguw on the occasion of their 50th
wedding anniversay. The name changes are the hardest for me to decipher and
I really don"t know how to progress. I am determined to find their graves
and what has happened to my mothers family. Please, please help. Thank yo
Dr Carolyn Winchester, Durban, South Africa


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen yerachmiel #general

Rose Feldman <rosef@...>
 

My father's name was Yerachmiel - born in the Ukraine in 1906. When he went
to France to study he got the name Emile. In the States 40 years later he
was Emil. My mother called him Rachmiel.
So there are instances where Rachmiel was "relatively" short for Yerachmiel.

Rose Feldman
Tel-Aviv


Re: Austria Vienna, Poland and Hungary #general

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Henoch Duboff writes: " Here is an example of not
posting complete information when making a request.
Yes, I'm talking about my own posting. I neglected to
mention that ASKIN is the married name! Her maiden
name was FAERSTEIN and was originally pronounced with
the ending of -SHTEIN.

Her sister is the one with the "Austria-Poland" on her
marriage license; the same sister has "Skalo, Austria"
written on her (the sister's) husband's naturalization
papers. On a brother's census record, "Austria
Yiddish" is listed as the *place* of birth, and
Yiddish is listed as the language spoken before coming
to the US.

One reply informed me that in 1930, the census takers
were told to clarify the exact location rather than
just "Austria." I'm wondering if perhaps the census
taker simply wrote in "Vienna" after the fact?"

Because of Henoch's unclear posting, I sent in a
detailed reply yesterday about ASKIN and zeroed in on
ASCHKENASY-related names in Vienna. I do not regret
it, and I have sent in another posting to say why.

But I am after Henoch's explanation today, I am more
confused than ever *whose name*, actually relates to
being born in *Vienna, Austria*? If it is the
FAERSTEIN girl, there are plenty of Galician
FEUERSTEIN buried in Vienna. The FAERSTEIN who stayed
in Vienna would definitely have changed their names to
FEUERSTEIN, but their Galician origins are revealed by
their first names.

So there is no reason why this baby girl was not born
in Vienna. It is perfectly possible to prove, once and
for all, if this mystery person was born in ***Vienna,
Austria***, or if it was a figment of the census
taker's imagination. Why speculate? As I said
originally, the Vienna Jewish birth records are very
good. One has to do the research.

Carol Rider's posting was very apt yesterday. The
Moderator thoughtfully gave us this link, which I read
for the first time and I was most amused: Dan Leeson's
tale is located at:

http://www.jewishgen.org/InfoFiles/dlfable.txt

Celia Male [U.K.]


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen re: Austria Vienna, Poland and Hungary #general

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Henoch Duboff writes: " Here is an example of not
posting complete information when making a request.
Yes, I'm talking about my own posting. I neglected to
mention that ASKIN is the married name! Her maiden
name was FAERSTEIN and was originally pronounced with
the ending of -SHTEIN.

Her sister is the one with the "Austria-Poland" on her
marriage license; the same sister has "Skalo, Austria"
written on her (the sister's) husband's naturalization
papers. On a brother's census record, "Austria
Yiddish" is listed as the *place* of birth, and
Yiddish is listed as the language spoken before coming
to the US.

One reply informed me that in 1930, the census takers
were told to clarify the exact location rather than
just "Austria." I'm wondering if perhaps the census
taker simply wrote in "Vienna" after the fact?"

Because of Henoch's unclear posting, I sent in a
detailed reply yesterday about ASKIN and zeroed in on
ASCHKENASY-related names in Vienna. I do not regret
it, and I have sent in another posting to say why.

But I am after Henoch's explanation today, I am more
confused than ever *whose name*, actually relates to
being born in *Vienna, Austria*? If it is the
FAERSTEIN girl, there are plenty of Galician
FEUERSTEIN buried in Vienna. The FAERSTEIN who stayed
in Vienna would definitely have changed their names to
FEUERSTEIN, but their Galician origins are revealed by
their first names.

So there is no reason why this baby girl was not born
in Vienna. It is perfectly possible to prove, once and
for all, if this mystery person was born in ***Vienna,
Austria***, or if it was a figment of the census
taker's imagination. Why speculate? As I said
originally, the Vienna Jewish birth records are very
good. One has to do the research.

Carol Rider's posting was very apt yesterday. The
Moderator thoughtfully gave us this link, which I read
for the first time and I was most amused: Dan Leeson's
tale is located at:

http://www.jewishgen.org/InfoFiles/dlfable.txt

Celia Male [U.K.]


Re: Requesting help in your research #general

Roger Lustig <julierog@...>
 

To Carol's comments, let me add a hearty "Yes...but..."

First of all, *good* local libraries aren't to be found everywhere.
Here in the US many cities (New York, Carol's Baltimore, and my own town
among them) have great public library traditions, but that isn't always
the case, and in other countries the situation can be downright grim.
On top of that, some of us do live much further >from a decent library
than others do, and still others aren't able to go out as readily.

Next, there's the matter of centrality to one's research. Yes, pick up
bits of a language or two, get to know the geography of key regions--but
the Jews of Europe were a relatively peripatetic lot, and there's only
so many times one wants to do all the groundwork in order to figure out
a potential reference to a single ancestor or distant cousin. Getting
to know enough German, Russian, Polish, Ukrainian, and Latin might be a
lot for a Galizianer researcher; when it then turns out that someone
married into a family >from Saloniki or Mantua, I think it's perfectly
fair to ask the group (perhaps with a "reply privately") for a hand.

I think Dan Leeson would agree with me, not least since he and I have
answered one another's basic questions on other subjects in at least one
other forum on occasion. Moreover, some things *don't* come naturally
from basic research with maps and names; for instance, "Why was there
evidently a substantial connection between the communities of Town X and
Town Y?" may be old hat to those who know the stories and historical
contingencies, but could elude any new researcher for a long time.

The Internet is by far the most powerful tool for research ever
developed. (15 years ago it was already touted as "the world's largest
scientific instrument".) Much of its power comes >from its ability to
reduce duplication. But none of us has published everthing we know, let
alone everything we suspect, so that basic query may be what's needed to
coax the "missing link" information out of whoever might have it. (The
owner of the info may not even know of its significance until the
question is asked.)

When it comes to courtesy and proper use of the group, however, there is
one thing that members should do, though: search the message archives.
If the answer's there, then posing the same question to the thousands of
us is little more than noise. If someone has answered something
similar, email them directly. And if someone writes to you with a
question, at least write back to say you don't know. (I'm not always
perfect with this last point either, but I try...)

After four years of spending far too much time on genealogy and history,
I'm beginning to get a grasp on an area of about 6 counties, with *very*
basic knowledge of things outside of there. Do your homework; use what
references you can; see if your question has been answered before; but
keep those questions coming! They, not the answers, are often what
stimulates researchers in entirely different areas!

Roger Lustig
Princeton, NJ
researching Upper Silesia--parts of it more than others...

CRomRider@aol.com wrote:

I am not picking on anyone in particular, but I have noticed quite a number
of quieries on Jewishgen asking for help when I think a little old fashioned
legwork is in order. I say this as a genealogist who has done things both
the old fashioned way and now the easy way--ask on the internet and have the
answer almost handed to you.

But you just don't learn the same thing if you don't go to your local
library (and I think most of us are able to do just that, unless you are the
Jewishgenner reading this on a submarine or living in a remote village in Mali).
What you learn by picking up an atlas and looking for the answer yourself is
immeasurable. You learn what cities or villages were close to the town of
origin for your family--and you will need to eventually search those areas
eventually. If you use a college library chances are you will find an atlas in
a language other than your own--French, German, Russian, etc. You will learn
to slowly begin to recognize names in other alphabets and you will learn how
borders changed. Pick up a book on doing genealogy research in a particular
area, and you will not only find what you are looking for but also discover
archives and resources you never thought of.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Requesting help in your research #general

Roger Lustig <julierog@...>
 

To Carol's comments, let me add a hearty "Yes...but..."

First of all, *good* local libraries aren't to be found everywhere.
Here in the US many cities (New York, Carol's Baltimore, and my own town
among them) have great public library traditions, but that isn't always
the case, and in other countries the situation can be downright grim.
On top of that, some of us do live much further >from a decent library
than others do, and still others aren't able to go out as readily.

Next, there's the matter of centrality to one's research. Yes, pick up
bits of a language or two, get to know the geography of key regions--but
the Jews of Europe were a relatively peripatetic lot, and there's only
so many times one wants to do all the groundwork in order to figure out
a potential reference to a single ancestor or distant cousin. Getting
to know enough German, Russian, Polish, Ukrainian, and Latin might be a
lot for a Galizianer researcher; when it then turns out that someone
married into a family >from Saloniki or Mantua, I think it's perfectly
fair to ask the group (perhaps with a "reply privately") for a hand.

I think Dan Leeson would agree with me, not least since he and I have
answered one another's basic questions on other subjects in at least one
other forum on occasion. Moreover, some things *don't* come naturally
from basic research with maps and names; for instance, "Why was there
evidently a substantial connection between the communities of Town X and
Town Y?" may be old hat to those who know the stories and historical
contingencies, but could elude any new researcher for a long time.

The Internet is by far the most powerful tool for research ever
developed. (15 years ago it was already touted as "the world's largest
scientific instrument".) Much of its power comes >from its ability to
reduce duplication. But none of us has published everthing we know, let
alone everything we suspect, so that basic query may be what's needed to
coax the "missing link" information out of whoever might have it. (The
owner of the info may not even know of its significance until the
question is asked.)

When it comes to courtesy and proper use of the group, however, there is
one thing that members should do, though: search the message archives.
If the answer's there, then posing the same question to the thousands of
us is little more than noise. If someone has answered something
similar, email them directly. And if someone writes to you with a
question, at least write back to say you don't know. (I'm not always
perfect with this last point either, but I try...)

After four years of spending far too much time on genealogy and history,
I'm beginning to get a grasp on an area of about 6 counties, with *very*
basic knowledge of things outside of there. Do your homework; use what
references you can; see if your question has been answered before; but
keep those questions coming! They, not the answers, are often what
stimulates researchers in entirely different areas!

Roger Lustig
Princeton, NJ
researching Upper Silesia--parts of it more than others...

CRomRider@aol.com wrote:

I am not picking on anyone in particular, but I have noticed quite a number
of quieries on Jewishgen asking for help when I think a little old fashioned
legwork is in order. I say this as a genealogist who has done things both
the old fashioned way and now the easy way--ask on the internet and have the
answer almost handed to you.

But you just don't learn the same thing if you don't go to your local
library (and I think most of us are able to do just that, unless you are the
Jewishgenner reading this on a submarine or living in a remote village in Mali).
What you learn by picking up an atlas and looking for the answer yourself is
immeasurable. You learn what cities or villages were close to the town of
origin for your family--and you will need to eventually search those areas
eventually. If you use a college library chances are you will find an atlas in
a language other than your own--French, German, Russian, etc. You will learn
to slowly begin to recognize names in other alphabets and you will learn how
borders changed. Pick up a book on doing genealogy research in a particular
area, and you will not only find what you are looking for but also discover
archives and resources you never thought of.


Tomachevski #yiddish

Clankarol@...
 

Hi
I am new to this group. My grandmother worked for the yiddish actor
Tomachevski (apologies for spelling the name wrong!) in New York. I wondered
if there are any relatives of his around who may have some knowledge of this.

Thank you,
K. Schlosser
Edinburgh, UK


Yiddish Theatre and Vadeville #YiddishTheatre Tomachevski #yiddish

Clankarol@...
 

Hi
I am new to this group. My grandmother worked for the yiddish actor
Tomachevski (apologies for spelling the name wrong!) in New York. I wondered
if there are any relatives of his around who may have some knowledge of this.

Thank you,
K. Schlosser
Edinburgh, UK