Date   

Galicians in the Austro-Hungarian army #galicia

J.C.Keiner <j.c.keiner@...>
 

I tried some years ago to locate any records of both my
grandfathers, who served in the Austro-Hungarian army in WWI. One
grandfather, Yisroel Aharon Keiner, born in Tarnow, Galicia in 1875,
but living in Rzepiennik, near Gorlice, served in the Isonzo in the
huge Somme-like battles there. I was told by my father that he was
buried alive by enemy bombardment but still survived, one of 37
survivors of a regiment of over 800.The other grandfather, Avrohom
Jeruchim, born in Kanczuga in 1869, but living in Berlin, served in
Przemysl in an administrative capacity--my mother was born in 1918
and did not see him as a toddler till she was over 2 years old.

When I first tried to trace records of these grandfathers, a
military researcher specialising in WWI Jewish service was very
sceptical about the story of Yisroel Aharon, pointing out that a
man of over 40 would have been unlikely to have been in front line
service. However, I subsequently acquired a book by John R Schindler
called Isonzo: The Forgotten Sacrifice of the Great War. [URL of
commercial website deleted by Moderator.]

This details the lists of regiments which served in the war. It
also describes the last few of the 12 Isonzo battles, by which time
the Austro-Hungarian empire was in its last throes. He describes the
desperation which led to Galician and other recruits who included
virtually untrained men in their forties and others being drafted in,
plus bombardments which buried regiments alive. So, as always, my
father's stories turned out to be true.

I also wrote to the Kriegsarchiv Vienna, and was told that unless
either grandfather was killed, an officer or had won an individual
medal, there would be no records there. They also said that all the
Galician regiment records had been passed over to the Polish
authorities and that in most cases, the successor nations had
destroyed the records out of hostility to their former colonial
masters.

I think the only way to find out would be via local historians in
the Galician villages in question. As recently discussed on this
list, the hugely destructive flood of 1927 would have destroyed many
archives in any case. There must still be Polish descendants in
Rzepiennik and other places who know exactly which regiments their
grandfathers and fathers served in. Schindler's book enables one to
identify which of these served in the Isonzo. I am sure that
somewhere there would be a photo of the regiment with the men who
served in it. But which regiment and where?

Incidentally, Schindler shows what great care the A-H army took to
provide for the different religions in the army. He shows statuary
which includes Bosnian soldiers clearly wearing Islamic headgear.

My other grandfather, Avraham Jeruchim was sentimentally loyal to
his memories of the A-H army. His favourite tune was apparently the
Radetzky March, the signatory march of the A-H army. That would
hardly be the case if he had been treated anti-semitically or even
less than respectfully in the army, even as a man by then well into
his forties.

Judy Keiner
London, England

Seeking families: FROMMER, ZELLERKRAUT, EISNER, GREER (Kanczuga);
METH (Krakow, Rzeszow, Blazowa); GUTTMAN, RAAB, KISTER, FRIESNER
(Sudovaya Visniya); KEINER, TELLER, FUHRER, BIRNBAUM, DEMBITZER
(Tarnow, Rczepiennik)


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia Galicians in the Austro-Hungarian army #galicia

J.C.Keiner <j.c.keiner@...>
 

I tried some years ago to locate any records of both my
grandfathers, who served in the Austro-Hungarian army in WWI. One
grandfather, Yisroel Aharon Keiner, born in Tarnow, Galicia in 1875,
but living in Rzepiennik, near Gorlice, served in the Isonzo in the
huge Somme-like battles there. I was told by my father that he was
buried alive by enemy bombardment but still survived, one of 37
survivors of a regiment of over 800.The other grandfather, Avrohom
Jeruchim, born in Kanczuga in 1869, but living in Berlin, served in
Przemysl in an administrative capacity--my mother was born in 1918
and did not see him as a toddler till she was over 2 years old.

When I first tried to trace records of these grandfathers, a
military researcher specialising in WWI Jewish service was very
sceptical about the story of Yisroel Aharon, pointing out that a
man of over 40 would have been unlikely to have been in front line
service. However, I subsequently acquired a book by John R Schindler
called Isonzo: The Forgotten Sacrifice of the Great War. [URL of
commercial website deleted by Moderator.]

This details the lists of regiments which served in the war. It
also describes the last few of the 12 Isonzo battles, by which time
the Austro-Hungarian empire was in its last throes. He describes the
desperation which led to Galician and other recruits who included
virtually untrained men in their forties and others being drafted in,
plus bombardments which buried regiments alive. So, as always, my
father's stories turned out to be true.

I also wrote to the Kriegsarchiv Vienna, and was told that unless
either grandfather was killed, an officer or had won an individual
medal, there would be no records there. They also said that all the
Galician regiment records had been passed over to the Polish
authorities and that in most cases, the successor nations had
destroyed the records out of hostility to their former colonial
masters.

I think the only way to find out would be via local historians in
the Galician villages in question. As recently discussed on this
list, the hugely destructive flood of 1927 would have destroyed many
archives in any case. There must still be Polish descendants in
Rzepiennik and other places who know exactly which regiments their
grandfathers and fathers served in. Schindler's book enables one to
identify which of these served in the Isonzo. I am sure that
somewhere there would be a photo of the regiment with the men who
served in it. But which regiment and where?

Incidentally, Schindler shows what great care the A-H army took to
provide for the different religions in the army. He shows statuary
which includes Bosnian soldiers clearly wearing Islamic headgear.

My other grandfather, Avraham Jeruchim was sentimentally loyal to
his memories of the A-H army. His favourite tune was apparently the
Radetzky March, the signatory march of the A-H army. That would
hardly be the case if he had been treated anti-semitically or even
less than respectfully in the army, even as a man by then well into
his forties.

Judy Keiner
London, England

Seeking families: FROMMER, ZELLERKRAUT, EISNER, GREER (Kanczuga);
METH (Krakow, Rzeszow, Blazowa); GUTTMAN, RAAB, KISTER, FRIESNER
(Sudovaya Visniya); KEINER, TELLER, FUHRER, BIRNBAUM, DEMBITZER
(Tarnow, Rczepiennik)


Gesher Galicia Website Update-IAJGS Conference #galicia

Pamela Weisberger <pweisberger@...>
 

The Gesher Galicia website home page has just been updated with
details about all Galician programming at the IAJGS conference...
lectures, special events, films, luncheon, book orders and more.

Go to: http://www.geshergalicia.org

to see all-things-Galician scheduled for Salt Lake City in July at
a glance!

Pamela Weisberger
Research Coordinator, Gesher Galicia
pweisberger@hotmail.com


Kolbuszowa Region Research Group (KRRG) meeting at the IAJGS Conference in Salt Lake City #galicia

Susana Leistner Bloch
 

The Kolbuszowa Region Research Group (KRRG) meeting at the Salt
Lake City IAJGS Conference is scheduled for :

- Day: Wednesday, July 18, 2007
- Time: 8:15 AM - 9:30 AM
- Room: Granite Conference Center

If you plan to attend please let me know so I can bring material
relevant to your research.

KRRG includes the following Administrative Districts:
Kolbuszowa - Lancut - Mielec - Nisko - Pilzno
Ropczyce - Rzeszow - Strzyzow - Tarnobrzeg

Over 200 shtetlach are included in KRRG. Here are some of the towns
in this region:

Blazowa, Debica, Kanczuga, Lancut, Lezajsk, Majdan, Mielec, Nisko,
Pilzno, Przeworsk, Ropczyce, Radomysl Wielki, Rzeszow, Rozwadow,
Rudnik, Sedziszow, Sokolow Mlp., Strzyzow, Tarnobrzeg, Tyczyn,
Ulanow and Zolynia

For a complete list of towns being researched by members of our
group, please write me or go to:
www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/Kolbuszowa/shtetlachlist.html

Susana Leistner Bloch, Coordinator
Kolbuszowa Region Research Group
http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/Kolbuszowa/


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia Gesher Galicia Website Update-IAJGS Conference #galicia

Pamela Weisberger <pweisberger@...>
 

The Gesher Galicia website home page has just been updated with
details about all Galician programming at the IAJGS conference...
lectures, special events, films, luncheon, book orders and more.

Go to: http://www.geshergalicia.org

to see all-things-Galician scheduled for Salt Lake City in July at
a glance!

Pamela Weisberger
Research Coordinator, Gesher Galicia
pweisberger@hotmail.com


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia Kolbuszowa Region Research Group (KRRG) meeting at the IAJGS Conference in Salt Lake City #galicia

Susana Leistner Bloch
 

The Kolbuszowa Region Research Group (KRRG) meeting at the Salt
Lake City IAJGS Conference is scheduled for :

- Day: Wednesday, July 18, 2007
- Time: 8:15 AM - 9:30 AM
- Room: Granite Conference Center

If you plan to attend please let me know so I can bring material
relevant to your research.

KRRG includes the following Administrative Districts:
Kolbuszowa - Lancut - Mielec - Nisko - Pilzno
Ropczyce - Rzeszow - Strzyzow - Tarnobrzeg

Over 200 shtetlach are included in KRRG. Here are some of the towns
in this region:

Blazowa, Debica, Kanczuga, Lancut, Lezajsk, Majdan, Mielec, Nisko,
Pilzno, Przeworsk, Ropczyce, Radomysl Wielki, Rzeszow, Rozwadow,
Rudnik, Sedziszow, Sokolow Mlp., Strzyzow, Tarnobrzeg, Tyczyn,
Ulanow and Zolynia

For a complete list of towns being researched by members of our
group, please write me or go to:
www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/Kolbuszowa/shtetlachlist.html

Susana Leistner Bloch, Coordinator
Kolbuszowa Region Research Group
http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/Kolbuszowa/


Re: "wanderbuecher" #germany

Arline and Sidney Sachs
 

I never did see a definition of the Wanderbuecher that was the original
quesiton. My 1886 German/English dictionary has the word Wanderbuch (the
u has the umlaut) with the definition "a small book, serving as a passport
to traveling journeymen".

Arline Sachs Lorton, VA <sachs@nova.org>

seaching: ASTHEIMER, CAHN, ROSENTHAL, WALLERSTEIN, in the Mainz, Frankfurt region


German SIG #Germany Re: "wanderbuecher" #germany

Arline and Sidney Sachs
 

I never did see a definition of the Wanderbuecher that was the original
quesiton. My 1886 German/English dictionary has the word Wanderbuch (the
u has the umlaut) with the definition "a small book, serving as a passport
to traveling journeymen".

Arline Sachs Lorton, VA <sachs@nova.org>

seaching: ASTHEIMER, CAHN, ROSENTHAL, WALLERSTEIN, in the Mainz, Frankfurt region


VM10067 #romania

J Wexler <wexler1980@...>
 

This was >from a death certificate >from 1905. The
Fathers name is: Boorich (which is verified >from other
documents), but I can't make out the Mother's Surname
I'm not sure what is written. These are the guesses I
have received Jurman, Qurman, Durman and Furman
The family was >from Kishinev and their sons came to
America around 1900.
the VM file Name= VM10067
the ViewMate address =
http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=10067

My email: wexler1980@yahoo.com

- I ask that RESPONSES be sent DIRECTLY to me - NOT to
the list, news group or the SIG. This is a request
from the SIG and List Moderators
Thank you,
Judy Wexler
St. Louis MO



____________________________________________________________________________________Ready for the edge of your seat?
Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV.
http://tv.yahoo.com/


Romania SIG #Romania VM10067 #romania

J Wexler <wexler1980@...>
 

This was >from a death certificate >from 1905. The
Fathers name is: Boorich (which is verified >from other
documents), but I can't make out the Mother's Surname
I'm not sure what is written. These are the guesses I
have received Jurman, Qurman, Durman and Furman
The family was >from Kishinev and their sons came to
America around 1900.
the VM file Name= VM10067
the ViewMate address =
http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=10067

My email: wexler1980@yahoo.com

- I ask that RESPONSES be sent DIRECTLY to me - NOT to
the list, news group or the SIG. This is a request
from the SIG and List Moderators
Thank you,
Judy Wexler
St. Louis MO



____________________________________________________________________________________Ready for the edge of your seat?
Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV.
http://tv.yahoo.com/


Early American Sig Meeting at Salt Lake IAJGS Conference #usa

RecordsAccess@...
 

To all you Yankee Doodle Genners who will be in Salt Lake next month,

Our meeting is scheduled for TUESDAY at 2:00 PM.

ARE YOU COMING TO SALT LAKE? If so, drop me an Email. It will be nice to
see old friends and make new ones.

Perhaps you have some suggestions for our Sig.
Or a project we can work on?
Or how about a good story as to what you found in the past year?

Maybe someone can inspire us. Or at least give us a few ideas.

In addition there are scheduled talks on:
Earlier American Jewish Research and
Castle Garden (the NY entry point before Ellis Island)
Both by Nancy Arbeiter, one of my favorite speakers.

Looking forward to hearing >from you.

Marvin Weinberg Yonkers NY Coordinator, Early American Sig
RecordsAccess@aol.com


Early American SIG #USA Early American Sig Meeting at Salt Lake IAJGS Conference #usa

RecordsAccess@...
 

To all you Yankee Doodle Genners who will be in Salt Lake next month,

Our meeting is scheduled for TUESDAY at 2:00 PM.

ARE YOU COMING TO SALT LAKE? If so, drop me an Email. It will be nice to
see old friends and make new ones.

Perhaps you have some suggestions for our Sig.
Or a project we can work on?
Or how about a good story as to what you found in the past year?

Maybe someone can inspire us. Or at least give us a few ideas.

In addition there are scheduled talks on:
Earlier American Jewish Research and
Castle Garden (the NY entry point before Ellis Island)
Both by Nancy Arbeiter, one of my favorite speakers.

Looking forward to hearing >from you.

Marvin Weinberg Yonkers NY Coordinator, Early American Sig
RecordsAccess@aol.com


FW: Jacob HECHT'S grave #usa

Steven Leof <sleof.sln25@...>
 

As a result of an earlier posting seeking information about the grave of my
ancestor Jacob HECHT in Cincinnati, Marian Brown very kindly did some
research and wrote: "The entry Grave located in the Walnut Hills Jewish
Cemetery old ground - no ownership cited: Jacob b 1817 d 3 Oct 1875
Section R 26 Grave 16."

In fact Jacob HECHT was born on 19 Dec 1817 in Langenschwarz, Kreis Hunfeld,
Hessen, Germany. He arrived in Baltimore, Maryland with his brothers Moses
and Raphael (Vogel) and sister Adelheid (Ettel) on the ship Albert on 31
July 1845 which departed >from Bremen, Germany. The immigration record lists
Jacob as being a merchant. He and his siblings joined their older brother
Simeon who arrived in Baltimore on the ship Agnes 2 September 1844, listed
as Sam HECHT, age 21. Jacob soon left for Cincinnati where he lived for the
next 30 years.

I still have a few questions: -

1. What is the name and location of the cemetery where Jacob HECHT is
buried?

2. Under the auspices of which synagogue is the cemetery where Jacob
HECHT is buried?

3. Would it be possible to obtain a digital photograph of Jacob
HECHT's grave?

4. Why is it that no ownership was cited in the entry? Is this of any
importance?

5. I had thought that Jacob HECHT died on Friday 1 Oct 1875 in
Cincinnati, Ohio. Is my information incorrect or is Sunday 3 Oct 1875
the date of his burial?

6. Are there any further records of my family's life in Cincinnati?
What was Jacob HECHT's occupation?

7. I still haven't located the graves of Jacob HECHT's in-laws Wolf
FISCHER (born in Bayern, Germany, died 1853 in Cincinnati) and his wife
Pauline TRIESTA FISCHER (born in Braneck, Bayern, Germany, died 1852 in
Cincinnati). Is there another cemetery in Cincinnati with older burials?

8. My HECHT family all left for New York after Jacob died. I know almost
nothing about my FISCHER ancestors (only that which I have listed above);
can anyone help locate the FISCHER family? Surely my
great-great-great-grandmother Jeanette FISCHER HECHT (born 19 Dec 1820 in
Bankoez, Bayern, Germany, died 03 Oct 1890 in New York, New York) wasn't an
only child.

Any help would be appreciated.

For anyone who may be connected, I have much more information about the
families and descendants of Jacob HECHT's brothers and sister in Baltimore.
Jacob's younger brother known as Samuel HECHT, Jr (to distinguish himself
from elder brother Simeon aka Samuel) went on to found the eponymous HECHT
Bros. department store chain. Jacob's father Meier HECHT had a sister Jette
who married Herz STERN; all but one of their children emigrated to Baltimore
too; daughter Hannah married Simeon HECHT. I have additional information
about Jacob's parents and grandparents and their families in Langenschwarz
(including photos of their graves). Regards

Steven Leof, London. <sleof.sln25@london.edu>


Early American SIG #USA FW: Jacob HECHT'S grave #usa

Steven Leof <sleof.sln25@...>
 

As a result of an earlier posting seeking information about the grave of my
ancestor Jacob HECHT in Cincinnati, Marian Brown very kindly did some
research and wrote: "The entry Grave located in the Walnut Hills Jewish
Cemetery old ground - no ownership cited: Jacob b 1817 d 3 Oct 1875
Section R 26 Grave 16."

In fact Jacob HECHT was born on 19 Dec 1817 in Langenschwarz, Kreis Hunfeld,
Hessen, Germany. He arrived in Baltimore, Maryland with his brothers Moses
and Raphael (Vogel) and sister Adelheid (Ettel) on the ship Albert on 31
July 1845 which departed >from Bremen, Germany. The immigration record lists
Jacob as being a merchant. He and his siblings joined their older brother
Simeon who arrived in Baltimore on the ship Agnes 2 September 1844, listed
as Sam HECHT, age 21. Jacob soon left for Cincinnati where he lived for the
next 30 years.

I still have a few questions: -

1. What is the name and location of the cemetery where Jacob HECHT is
buried?

2. Under the auspices of which synagogue is the cemetery where Jacob
HECHT is buried?

3. Would it be possible to obtain a digital photograph of Jacob
HECHT's grave?

4. Why is it that no ownership was cited in the entry? Is this of any
importance?

5. I had thought that Jacob HECHT died on Friday 1 Oct 1875 in
Cincinnati, Ohio. Is my information incorrect or is Sunday 3 Oct 1875
the date of his burial?

6. Are there any further records of my family's life in Cincinnati?
What was Jacob HECHT's occupation?

7. I still haven't located the graves of Jacob HECHT's in-laws Wolf
FISCHER (born in Bayern, Germany, died 1853 in Cincinnati) and his wife
Pauline TRIESTA FISCHER (born in Braneck, Bayern, Germany, died 1852 in
Cincinnati). Is there another cemetery in Cincinnati with older burials?

8. My HECHT family all left for New York after Jacob died. I know almost
nothing about my FISCHER ancestors (only that which I have listed above);
can anyone help locate the FISCHER family? Surely my
great-great-great-grandmother Jeanette FISCHER HECHT (born 19 Dec 1820 in
Bankoez, Bayern, Germany, died 03 Oct 1890 in New York, New York) wasn't an
only child.

Any help would be appreciated.

For anyone who may be connected, I have much more information about the
families and descendants of Jacob HECHT's brothers and sister in Baltimore.
Jacob's younger brother known as Samuel HECHT, Jr (to distinguish himself
from elder brother Simeon aka Samuel) went on to found the eponymous HECHT
Bros. department store chain. Jacob's father Meier HECHT had a sister Jette
who married Herz STERN; all but one of their children emigrated to Baltimore
too; daughter Hannah married Simeon HECHT. I have additional information
about Jacob's parents and grandparents and their families in Langenschwarz
(including photos of their graves). Regards

Steven Leof, London. <sleof.sln25@london.edu>


Viewmate translation from Polish or Gothic German #general

roe kard
 

Subject: Translation >from Polish and/or Gothic German of one sentence

I have posted the first few lines >from a contract >from the 1820's that includes the
names of some of my family members. I am trying to understand the relationship
between them e.g. father - sons? I think it is Polish and Gothic German, but am
not sure. It is one sentence long. Thank you for your help.
Viewmate: VM10091

karen roekard
aka gitl chaye eta rosenfeld roekart

roekard@lmi.net
or
roekard@santacruzhag.com

Moderator note: The direct URL to the viewmate post is:
http://data.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=10091
Please respond privately


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Viewmate translation from Polish or Gothic German #general

roe kard
 

Subject: Translation >from Polish and/or Gothic German of one sentence

I have posted the first few lines >from a contract >from the 1820's that includes the
names of some of my family members. I am trying to understand the relationship
between them e.g. father - sons? I think it is Polish and Gothic German, but am
not sure. It is one sentence long. Thank you for your help.
Viewmate: VM10091

karen roekard
aka gitl chaye eta rosenfeld roekart

roekard@lmi.net
or
roekard@santacruzhag.com

Moderator note: The direct URL to the viewmate post is:
http://data.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=10091
Please respond privately


Apologies are due #germany

JewishGen German Research Division Coordinator
 

On Saturday, 9 June, your Moderator approved a message for posting to
our list that should have been rejected.

The message contained a citation of the Leo on line dictionary and it
was inspired by an earlier question about the meaning of the term
"Wanderbuecher".

The writer went on at some length about "a wonderful site [that] might
also help others on the list". After calling the Leo site
"wonderful", however, the writer explained that Leo failed to
translate "Wanderbucher" (u umlaut).

The text of this message was almost certainly garbled when GerSIG
subscribers received it because the writer failed to eliminate several
foreign language accent marks contained therein.

Our list rules, posted at our website and sent to every new subscriber
with a plea to save them for future reference, explain that our list
server often garbles text including accent marks.

For that reason you should not use the umlaut, esszet and other accents
that not part of the English language when you write email to us.
JewishGen orders list Moderators to reject emails that violate this rule.

I did not reject the message about the Leo dictionary even though it
contained umlauts and the resulting garbled text. I allowed the
message because I prepended a warning that you should not use umlauts.

I thought that the note of warning, together with the garbled text in
the message would be a useful reminder of this rule together with an
illustration of the reason for the rule.

I could also have rejected that message because it contained a
citation of an Internet tool that has been cited many times before in
our list and which is included in the group of free translation tools
at the GerSIG website.

Instead of rejecting the message for that reason I prepended another
Moderator note reminding readers of the many free translation tools amd
dictionaries that are listed and evaluated at our website.

I apologize to readers who were bothered by the garbled text in that
message and by the redundant citation of the Leo Dictionary. I also apologize
for not separating my MOD NOTE more distinctly >from the writer's own text.

I further apologize to JewishGen for allowing this message into our
Forum in spite of its rule violations.

Another apology is due - one >from Fritz Neubauer who wrote a later
message in which he attributed *** my *** citation of the translation
tool list at our website to the person who sent the post about the Leo
Dictionary. It was I - your Moderator - who cited the translation
tools, not the writer of the email to which my citation was prepended.
__________________
Regarding the effort to translate the term "Wanderbucher" (u umlaut)
that appeared in some documents >from 1769 - 1873 ----
There was quite a bit of comment in reply to the question about this term.

Experienced researchers have pointed out many times in this Forum that
the meaning of words often depends on the context in which those words
appear.
Context means the place and time that the word was used and the full text
in which it appeared.

Every page of any play by Shakespeare includes at least one word that
now has a different meaning than it did when Shakespeare wrote it.

You don't have to go back that far for examples of the evolution of language.
"Green" used to mean just a color, "gay" a cheerful mood, and "web" a
thing spiders made to catch dinner. Imagine how confusing it would be
for a non-English speaker who used an old dictionary to translate these words
as used in an article >from this week's "Time" Magazine.

Every translation tool has limitations. Most words can mean more than
one thing. Our Forum has rules that should be followed by listmembers and
by Moderators. End of story.

GerSIG Moderator 1 Suburban NYC GerSigMod@Gmail.com


Searching: SEIDENWAR/ZAIDENWAR from Iwansk and Tarnow, Poland #general

Michael Trapunsky
 

Hi all,

I am researching the SEIDENWAR/ZAIDENWAR family >from Iwaniska and Tarnow, Poland.
Yakov (Yankel) SEIDENWAR/ZAIDENWAR (my wife's great great grandfather) lived in
Iwansk in the mid to late 1800's. He had at least 3 sons and one daughter:

1- Meir SEIDENWAR. He moved to Tarnow around 1929 and died in 1942 at the hands of
the Nazis. This is my wife's family. He was married to Pearl WAJSWOL and had 8
children: Pesach Chaim, Chayala, Jack, Mottel, Pinchas, Tzipporah, Joe, and a son
who died young whose name I don't know. They have descendants in the USA and Israel.

2- Chaim SEIDENWAR. He moved to Israel with his family. He had 4 children - Moshe,
Yakov, and Tziporrah who live(d) in Israel and Shlomo who died in Europe.

3- Getzel SEIDENWAR. He had at least two sons: Chaim and Yossel. They were
probably killed in Poland but I don't know for sure.

4- Unknown daughter SEIDENWAR. She and her family moved to Canada in the
early 1900's - possibly to Montreal. I also don't know what her married name was.

5- Possibly another SEIDENWAR brother who may have moved to Germany sometime
in the late 1800's or early 1900's. I know nothing else about them.

There is also another Seidenwar/Zaidenwar family that I am researching, also >from
Iwansk, whom I am sure are related to me but I haven't found the connection yet.
They are the descendants of Menachem Mendel Zajdenwar and his wife Temma Shumacher. Their children were:
1- Feige
2- Rose
3- Nachum
4- Yechiel (Harry)
5- Isaac
6- Mottel (Max)

If anyone knows anything about these families I would really love to hear
back >from you.

Thanks very much.

Michael Trapunsky
Long Island, New York
trapunsky@verizon.net


German SIG #Germany Apologies are due #germany

JewishGen German Research Division Coordinator
 

On Saturday, 9 June, your Moderator approved a message for posting to
our list that should have been rejected.

The message contained a citation of the Leo on line dictionary and it
was inspired by an earlier question about the meaning of the term
"Wanderbuecher".

The writer went on at some length about "a wonderful site [that] might
also help others on the list". After calling the Leo site
"wonderful", however, the writer explained that Leo failed to
translate "Wanderbucher" (u umlaut).

The text of this message was almost certainly garbled when GerSIG
subscribers received it because the writer failed to eliminate several
foreign language accent marks contained therein.

Our list rules, posted at our website and sent to every new subscriber
with a plea to save them for future reference, explain that our list
server often garbles text including accent marks.

For that reason you should not use the umlaut, esszet and other accents
that not part of the English language when you write email to us.
JewishGen orders list Moderators to reject emails that violate this rule.

I did not reject the message about the Leo dictionary even though it
contained umlauts and the resulting garbled text. I allowed the
message because I prepended a warning that you should not use umlauts.

I thought that the note of warning, together with the garbled text in
the message would be a useful reminder of this rule together with an
illustration of the reason for the rule.

I could also have rejected that message because it contained a
citation of an Internet tool that has been cited many times before in
our list and which is included in the group of free translation tools
at the GerSIG website.

Instead of rejecting the message for that reason I prepended another
Moderator note reminding readers of the many free translation tools amd
dictionaries that are listed and evaluated at our website.

I apologize to readers who were bothered by the garbled text in that
message and by the redundant citation of the Leo Dictionary. I also apologize
for not separating my MOD NOTE more distinctly >from the writer's own text.

I further apologize to JewishGen for allowing this message into our
Forum in spite of its rule violations.

Another apology is due - one >from Fritz Neubauer who wrote a later
message in which he attributed *** my *** citation of the translation
tool list at our website to the person who sent the post about the Leo
Dictionary. It was I - your Moderator - who cited the translation
tools, not the writer of the email to which my citation was prepended.
__________________
Regarding the effort to translate the term "Wanderbucher" (u umlaut)
that appeared in some documents >from 1769 - 1873 ----
There was quite a bit of comment in reply to the question about this term.

Experienced researchers have pointed out many times in this Forum that
the meaning of words often depends on the context in which those words
appear.
Context means the place and time that the word was used and the full text
in which it appeared.

Every page of any play by Shakespeare includes at least one word that
now has a different meaning than it did when Shakespeare wrote it.

You don't have to go back that far for examples of the evolution of language.
"Green" used to mean just a color, "gay" a cheerful mood, and "web" a
thing spiders made to catch dinner. Imagine how confusing it would be
for a non-English speaker who used an old dictionary to translate these words
as used in an article >from this week's "Time" Magazine.

Every translation tool has limitations. Most words can mean more than
one thing. Our Forum has rules that should be followed by listmembers and
by Moderators. End of story.

GerSIG Moderator 1 Suburban NYC GerSigMod@Gmail.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Searching: SEIDENWAR/ZAIDENWAR from Iwansk and Tarnow, Poland #general

Michael Trapunsky
 

Hi all,

I am researching the SEIDENWAR/ZAIDENWAR family >from Iwaniska and Tarnow, Poland.
Yakov (Yankel) SEIDENWAR/ZAIDENWAR (my wife's great great grandfather) lived in
Iwansk in the mid to late 1800's. He had at least 3 sons and one daughter:

1- Meir SEIDENWAR. He moved to Tarnow around 1929 and died in 1942 at the hands of
the Nazis. This is my wife's family. He was married to Pearl WAJSWOL and had 8
children: Pesach Chaim, Chayala, Jack, Mottel, Pinchas, Tzipporah, Joe, and a son
who died young whose name I don't know. They have descendants in the USA and Israel.

2- Chaim SEIDENWAR. He moved to Israel with his family. He had 4 children - Moshe,
Yakov, and Tziporrah who live(d) in Israel and Shlomo who died in Europe.

3- Getzel SEIDENWAR. He had at least two sons: Chaim and Yossel. They were
probably killed in Poland but I don't know for sure.

4- Unknown daughter SEIDENWAR. She and her family moved to Canada in the
early 1900's - possibly to Montreal. I also don't know what her married name was.

5- Possibly another SEIDENWAR brother who may have moved to Germany sometime
in the late 1800's or early 1900's. I know nothing else about them.

There is also another Seidenwar/Zaidenwar family that I am researching, also >from
Iwansk, whom I am sure are related to me but I haven't found the connection yet.
They are the descendants of Menachem Mendel Zajdenwar and his wife Temma Shumacher. Their children were:
1- Feige
2- Rose
3- Nachum
4- Yechiel (Harry)
5- Isaac
6- Mottel (Max)

If anyone knows anything about these families I would really love to hear
back >from you.

Thanks very much.

Michael Trapunsky
Long Island, New York
trapunsky@verizon.net