Date   

Re: surname TOFF #germany

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 3/6/2008 8:26:10 P.M. Central Standard Time,
_buckidstein@aol.com_ (mailto:buckidstein@aol.com) writes:

<< In their dictionary "Etymologisches Lexikon der juedischen
Familiennamen", E. and H. Guggenheimer write about two sources of this name.
When used by Ashkenazic Jews, the forms TOFF (found in Italy) and Touff are
a variation of the name Tov / Tow, which is derived >from Hebrew tov = good.
The Arabic tawwaf
=
obedient servant (in modern Arabic wanderer, emigrant) became Toaff or Toef
in Sephardic usage. >>

==Heinrich Guggenheimer is an amazing polymath, a past professor at (I think)
Brooklyn Polytech of both mathematics and of Talmud. His onamastic work is,
however, not held in the same regard. The English version of his
Etymological Dictionary can be bought, used, for $283.50 >from a major online
bookstore -- only one copy available. I do not own a copy, I have never seen
a copy, and I don't expect to buy a copy. I have heard, however, that there
are some serious errors in it.

==Toaff is an Italian Jewish name, a long line of rabbis and scholars >from
Livorno, including Chief Rabbi Elio Toaff who greeted the late Pope on his visit to
Rome's major synagogue about 10 years ago. Eli Toaff is a distinguished scholar of
Italian Jewish history and son of the Chief Rabbi, who wrote most of the articles
dealing with Italy in Encyc Jud. He is professor at Bar Ilan University. Recently
got into very hot water bywriting a book in Italy in which he seemed to suggest
that some of the old Catholic claims that Jews killed Christian children to
use their blood for Passover rituals were based on reality [the book was
subsequently withdrawn].

==Only a relatively small portion of Italian Jews are of Sefardi heritage.
The Toaffs were not Sefardim.

==The Tawaff Arabic oirigin of the Toff name is interesting. I know no Arabic

Michael Bernet, New York mbernet@aol.com


surname Toff #germany

Margaret Fullarton and David Mark <fullmark@...>
 

Well, my ignorance has been lightened somewhat by you good people who have
assisted me both privately and through the list. I am now going to
investigate further but it does seem, as you say, that Toff may well have
come >from Tov. In fact a Dutch Toff told me that his name comes >from
brothers who arrived in Holland, made some money and distributed it
charitably and thus earned the name Tov/Toff. He has reverted to Tov since
moving to Israel. So like you all, I shall search on. Many thanks.

Margaret Fullarton Oaklands NSW Australia

MODERATOR NOTE: Discussion of this topic is absolutely closed in this forum.


German SIG #Germany Re: surname TOFF #germany

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 3/6/2008 8:26:10 P.M. Central Standard Time,
_buckidstein@aol.com_ (mailto:buckidstein@aol.com) writes:

<< In their dictionary "Etymologisches Lexikon der juedischen
Familiennamen", E. and H. Guggenheimer write about two sources of this name.
When used by Ashkenazic Jews, the forms TOFF (found in Italy) and Touff are
a variation of the name Tov / Tow, which is derived >from Hebrew tov = good.
The Arabic tawwaf
=
obedient servant (in modern Arabic wanderer, emigrant) became Toaff or Toef
in Sephardic usage. >>

==Heinrich Guggenheimer is an amazing polymath, a past professor at (I think)
Brooklyn Polytech of both mathematics and of Talmud. His onamastic work is,
however, not held in the same regard. The English version of his
Etymological Dictionary can be bought, used, for $283.50 >from a major online
bookstore -- only one copy available. I do not own a copy, I have never seen
a copy, and I don't expect to buy a copy. I have heard, however, that there
are some serious errors in it.

==Toaff is an Italian Jewish name, a long line of rabbis and scholars >from
Livorno, including Chief Rabbi Elio Toaff who greeted the late Pope on his visit to
Rome's major synagogue about 10 years ago. Eli Toaff is a distinguished scholar of
Italian Jewish history and son of the Chief Rabbi, who wrote most of the articles
dealing with Italy in Encyc Jud. He is professor at Bar Ilan University. Recently
got into very hot water bywriting a book in Italy in which he seemed to suggest
that some of the old Catholic claims that Jews killed Christian children to
use their blood for Passover rituals were based on reality [the book was
subsequently withdrawn].

==Only a relatively small portion of Italian Jews are of Sefardi heritage.
The Toaffs were not Sefardim.

==The Tawaff Arabic oirigin of the Toff name is interesting. I know no Arabic

Michael Bernet, New York mbernet@aol.com


German SIG #Germany surname Toff #germany

Margaret Fullarton and David Mark <fullmark@...>
 

Well, my ignorance has been lightened somewhat by you good people who have
assisted me both privately and through the list. I am now going to
investigate further but it does seem, as you say, that Toff may well have
come >from Tov. In fact a Dutch Toff told me that his name comes >from
brothers who arrived in Holland, made some money and distributed it
charitably and thus earned the name Tov/Toff. He has reverted to Tov since
moving to Israel. So like you all, I shall search on. Many thanks.

Margaret Fullarton Oaklands NSW Australia

MODERATOR NOTE: Discussion of this topic is absolutely closed in this forum.


Re: The family name Toff #germany

Ury Link
 

Dear Genners,
Before few month I send this letter to a person in Holland that ask me the
same question, What is the origin of the family name Toff ? I write the
letter in Dutch and this is the translation to English .
First this name is written in different spelling also as Tov, Tow, Tof,
Toff, but as we know this is usual and spelling is something >from the 20
century.

We have few explanation for this name and I write on the family name that is
used in Holland, in Germany I don't find this family name.

No 1: It get out >from the Hebrew word TOW and it mean Good, but according my
knowledge I don't think that it is the origin of the name Toff.

No 2: In Veendam, a small city in Northern Holland, Lived in the 18
century a person with the name Manuel Jonas Tof (birth 1756) , Jonas is a
nickname to the Hebrew name Jona and it mean a Pigeon , a Dove. In Dutch it
is a DUIF and >from Duif to Toff is the way very short Duif - Tuif - Toff.
So In this case I can said that the name Toff get out >from the Hebrew name
Jona

No 3: Another explanation is that the name get out >from the given name David
. Perhaps was in this family a person with the name David and the nickname
of David is Tevel or Tyvel and >from this we get the name Toff through this
way :David - Tevel - Teffel- Toffel -Toff.

No 4 : Alexander Beider in his book Jewish Surnames in Poland give the
suggestion that the name Tov - Toff get out >from the German name Teper
(page 438). Teper mean a kettle-maker and Top in German mean a kettle.
It can be that the bearer of this name was a kettle-maker or a merchant in
kettles.

No 5: It is a small possibility that the name Toff is a acronym >from the
Hebrew letters Tet -Vav - Beith , but I don't can find a good explanation to
this word, except the number 17 (Tet =9 + Vav = 6 + Beith =2 = 17)

My opinion about Toff = Pigeon have a small evidence in the Dutch archive.
In 1811 change the Family Rachmanuth his name to 2 different Dutch names
one part take the name POST and the other part take the name TOFF , it was
very usually that a family take different names (in my family take one part
the name Muzikant and the other part the name Viol)
We get 2 names POST -TOFF In Dutch you said Postduif what mean a
Carrier-pigeon.
This is only a small indication that the name Toff get out >from Jona as I
think it is.

In all the cases I spoke about Holland where this name was used as TOFF more
then in other European countries.

Best regards Ury Link Amsterdam Holland


German SIG #Germany Re: The family name Toff #germany

Ury Link
 

Dear Genners,
Before few month I send this letter to a person in Holland that ask me the
same question, What is the origin of the family name Toff ? I write the
letter in Dutch and this is the translation to English .
First this name is written in different spelling also as Tov, Tow, Tof,
Toff, but as we know this is usual and spelling is something >from the 20
century.

We have few explanation for this name and I write on the family name that is
used in Holland, in Germany I don't find this family name.

No 1: It get out >from the Hebrew word TOW and it mean Good, but according my
knowledge I don't think that it is the origin of the name Toff.

No 2: In Veendam, a small city in Northern Holland, Lived in the 18
century a person with the name Manuel Jonas Tof (birth 1756) , Jonas is a
nickname to the Hebrew name Jona and it mean a Pigeon , a Dove. In Dutch it
is a DUIF and >from Duif to Toff is the way very short Duif - Tuif - Toff.
So In this case I can said that the name Toff get out >from the Hebrew name
Jona

No 3: Another explanation is that the name get out >from the given name David
. Perhaps was in this family a person with the name David and the nickname
of David is Tevel or Tyvel and >from this we get the name Toff through this
way :David - Tevel - Teffel- Toffel -Toff.

No 4 : Alexander Beider in his book Jewish Surnames in Poland give the
suggestion that the name Tov - Toff get out >from the German name Teper
(page 438). Teper mean a kettle-maker and Top in German mean a kettle.
It can be that the bearer of this name was a kettle-maker or a merchant in
kettles.

No 5: It is a small possibility that the name Toff is a acronym >from the
Hebrew letters Tet -Vav - Beith , but I don't can find a good explanation to
this word, except the number 17 (Tet =9 + Vav = 6 + Beith =2 = 17)

My opinion about Toff = Pigeon have a small evidence in the Dutch archive.
In 1811 change the Family Rachmanuth his name to 2 different Dutch names
one part take the name POST and the other part take the name TOFF , it was
very usually that a family take different names (in my family take one part
the name Muzikant and the other part the name Viol)
We get 2 names POST -TOFF In Dutch you said Postduif what mean a
Carrier-pigeon.
This is only a small indication that the name Toff get out >from Jona as I
think it is.

In all the cases I spoke about Holland where this name was used as TOFF more
then in other European countries.

Best regards Ury Link Amsterdam Holland


Re: "Claimant" on an ITS card? #general

Joseph Fibel <jfibel@...>
 

Peter,

And when you find out, please let us know.

Joe Fibel

----- Original Message -----
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Can anyone decipher this for me: I can guess that "Bln." means "Berlin",
but can't imagine what the rest might mean, nor what a "claimant" in this
case might refer to. And what does the existence of "a card" signify?

Does anyone have any ideas?

Peter Lebensold


Warszawa Research Group #Warsaw #Poland Re: "Claimant" on an ITS card? #warsaw #poland

Joseph Fibel <jfibel@...>
 

Peter,

And when you find out, please let us know.

Joe Fibel

----- Original Message -----
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Can anyone decipher this for me: I can guess that "Bln." means "Berlin",
but can't imagine what the rest might mean, nor what a "claimant" in this
case might refer to. And what does the existence of "a card" signify?

Does anyone have any ideas?

Peter Lebensold


Re: "Claimant" on an ITS card? #general

Joseph Fibel <jfibel@...>
 

Dear Peter,

Why don't you ask them?

Joe Fibel

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Lebensold" <peter@lebensold.com>
To: "Warszawa Research Group" <warszawa@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 5:48 PM
Subject: [warszawa] "Claimant" on an ITS card?


*** Help JewishGen Help You! ***
http://www.jewishgen.org/jewishgen-erosity/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hello again:

I have just received an email in response to my enquiry to the
International Tracing Service (ITS) regarding my Warsaw paternal
grandparents (last heard from, by mail >from within the Ghetto, in 1941).
It seems that in both cases, the ITS has been able to locate "a card" -
"(please note [ITS writes] that these cards only refer to original
documents and often do not contain all of the available information)".

In both cases a "claimant" is listed: "Amt f. Wg. Bln., f. RA Herr, Bln."

Can anyone decipher this for me: I can guess that "Bln." means "Berlin",
but can't imagine what the rest might mean, nor what a "claimant" in this
case might refer to. And what does the existence of "a card" signify?

Does anyone have any ideas?

Peter Lebensold
Toronto


Warszawa Research Group #Warsaw #Poland Re: "Claimant" on an ITS card? #warsaw #poland

Joseph Fibel <jfibel@...>
 

Dear Peter,

Why don't you ask them?

Joe Fibel

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Lebensold" <peter@lebensold.com>
To: "Warszawa Research Group" <warszawa@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 5:48 PM
Subject: [warszawa] "Claimant" on an ITS card?


*** Help JewishGen Help You! ***
http://www.jewishgen.org/jewishgen-erosity/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hello again:

I have just received an email in response to my enquiry to the
International Tracing Service (ITS) regarding my Warsaw paternal
grandparents (last heard from, by mail >from within the Ghetto, in 1941).
It seems that in both cases, the ITS has been able to locate "a card" -
"(please note [ITS writes] that these cards only refer to original
documents and often do not contain all of the available information)".

In both cases a "claimant" is listed: "Amt f. Wg. Bln., f. RA Herr, Bln."

Can anyone decipher this for me: I can guess that "Bln." means "Berlin",
but can't imagine what the rest might mean, nor what a "claimant" in this
case might refer to. And what does the existence of "a card" signify?

Does anyone have any ideas?

Peter Lebensold
Toronto


Re: Theodore NETTLER/Mannheim #germany

Roger Lustig
 

David:
Since 1875 Germany has had universal civil registration. Almost all of
the registers have been preserved in one form or another.

Many of these are filmed and available via the Mormon (LDS) church and
their Family History Library. Check their online catalog at
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp.

In the case of Mannheim, there are films of family-status sheets
covering the period 1807-1900. These records are in alphabetical order
by surname, which is a very good thing when you consider that they take
up 205 reels of microfilm.

If Cantor NETTLER died after 1900 you should be able to apply for a copy
of his death certificate >from the Mannheim registry office
(Standesamt). See our extensive mailing-list archives for more info.

There's plenty written about the Jews of Mannheim. Click
http://www.jewishgen.org/GerSIG/communities-m.htm for books and links.

Good luck, and let us know how it turns out!

Roger Lustig Princeton, NJ Research co-ordinator, GerSIG


German SIG #Germany Re: Theodore NETTLER/Mannheim #germany

Roger Lustig
 

David:
Since 1875 Germany has had universal civil registration. Almost all of
the registers have been preserved in one form or another.

Many of these are filmed and available via the Mormon (LDS) church and
their Family History Library. Check their online catalog at
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp.

In the case of Mannheim, there are films of family-status sheets
covering the period 1807-1900. These records are in alphabetical order
by surname, which is a very good thing when you consider that they take
up 205 reels of microfilm.

If Cantor NETTLER died after 1900 you should be able to apply for a copy
of his death certificate >from the Mannheim registry office
(Standesamt). See our extensive mailing-list archives for more info.

There's plenty written about the Jews of Mannheim. Click
http://www.jewishgen.org/GerSIG/communities-m.htm for books and links.

Good luck, and let us know how it turns out!

Roger Lustig Princeton, NJ Research co-ordinator, GerSIG


Mauthausen/Gussen Death Book #poland

Anat Avizemel <anatavizemel@...>
 

In the Mauthausen/Gussen Death Book I found CHAJMOWICZ MANOSZ listed.
I believe he is my grandmother’s brother.

The birth place is Mogielnica, Poland, birth date seems to match the
information I have. He died in Gusen on March 31, 1945.

There are two ID numbers: prisoner number Mauthausen: 33559 and
Gussen: 125266.

The source is: AMM E/13/10/1; Y/36.

Is there a way to obtain such a record?

Actually, to identify him, all I need is to have his parents’ names,
if mentioned in any of the documents.

Would appreciate any suggestions and comments,

Anat Avizemel
Israel

antavizemel@hotmail.com


JRI Poland #Poland Mauthausen/Gussen Death Book #poland

Anat Avizemel <anatavizemel@...>
 

In the Mauthausen/Gussen Death Book I found CHAJMOWICZ MANOSZ listed.
I believe he is my grandmother’s brother.

The birth place is Mogielnica, Poland, birth date seems to match the
information I have. He died in Gusen on March 31, 1945.

There are two ID numbers: prisoner number Mauthausen: 33559 and
Gussen: 125266.

The source is: AMM E/13/10/1; Y/36.

Is there a way to obtain such a record?

Actually, to identify him, all I need is to have his parents’ names,
if mentioned in any of the documents.

Would appreciate any suggestions and comments,

Anat Avizemel
Israel

antavizemel@hotmail.com


Searching Families from Izabelin,Svisloch & Ruzhany #belarus

Rachel Poole <rachel.poole3@...>
 

Hi

I have just joined this SIG following a fantastic phone following a search
in the Rabbinic SIG.

I now know that my ggf AYREH LEIB LEVIN/E came >from Izabelin and his wife
Sarah Rachel >from Svisloch. Ayreh Leib was a Rabbi and my contact had
copies of books he had written and was able to translate the prefaces to
provide me with family information.

Levin/e is the only surname I can offer but I do know that:
AYREH LEIB (later Lewis Levin/e) was born in approx 1861 SON OF NOSEN. He
was a Rabbi in Liverpool and London in the period approx 1900 - 1927 I am
presuming therefore that he would have been a Rabbi in Izabelin. As far as
I can see >from census lists that will have arrived in England in the late
1890's. The book also tells me that his father NOSEN was SON OF AVIGDOR. I
do know that Ayreh Leib was an only child.

He married SARAH RACHEL who in his book he describes as coming >from good
family. Her father seems to have been quite big in the community of
Svisloch as he says her father gave lectures and supported the poor of
Israel. Unfortunately he gives no names for her father. I see on the Shetl
homepage that during this period there was a local benefactor - President of
the community ZELIG SORKIN - Does anyone know whether he had a daughter
called Sarah Rachel? Is there a connection?
The book does say her mother was FAIGLE DAUGHTER OF YITZHUK AND THAT YITZHUK
was a Ram?? Gave lectures in Ruzhanay

Aryeh Leib and Sarah Rachel will have left Izabelin somewhere between 1890
and 1900 as all children was born in "Russia". They had 3 children,
Moshe/Moses/Morris (B 1886 - D 1959) married Esther Rose Silver in London
1893 (my grandparents)
Nosen/Nathan (B 1890), who also became a Rev, serving in the forces and Port
Elizabeth and Brisbane before coming back to London (Chingford & Higham
Park. His wife is said to have been called Evelyn but I have been unable to
trace the marriage so far - they had 3 children, Honor, Carmel & Basil
Esther / Ethel (b 1883) known to have gone to South Africa and since I have
lost all trace of her

I have tried searching the databases and there is nothing that immediately
jumps out! If any of this rings bells with anyone or you can offer any ideas
please do contact me

Best wishes

Rachel Poole
Leicestershire, England


Belarus SIG #Belarus Searching Families from Izabelin,Svisloch & Ruzhany #belarus

Rachel Poole <rachel.poole3@...>
 

Hi

I have just joined this SIG following a fantastic phone following a search
in the Rabbinic SIG.

I now know that my ggf AYREH LEIB LEVIN/E came >from Izabelin and his wife
Sarah Rachel >from Svisloch. Ayreh Leib was a Rabbi and my contact had
copies of books he had written and was able to translate the prefaces to
provide me with family information.

Levin/e is the only surname I can offer but I do know that:
AYREH LEIB (later Lewis Levin/e) was born in approx 1861 SON OF NOSEN. He
was a Rabbi in Liverpool and London in the period approx 1900 - 1927 I am
presuming therefore that he would have been a Rabbi in Izabelin. As far as
I can see >from census lists that will have arrived in England in the late
1890's. The book also tells me that his father NOSEN was SON OF AVIGDOR. I
do know that Ayreh Leib was an only child.

He married SARAH RACHEL who in his book he describes as coming >from good
family. Her father seems to have been quite big in the community of
Svisloch as he says her father gave lectures and supported the poor of
Israel. Unfortunately he gives no names for her father. I see on the Shetl
homepage that during this period there was a local benefactor - President of
the community ZELIG SORKIN - Does anyone know whether he had a daughter
called Sarah Rachel? Is there a connection?
The book does say her mother was FAIGLE DAUGHTER OF YITZHUK AND THAT YITZHUK
was a Ram?? Gave lectures in Ruzhanay

Aryeh Leib and Sarah Rachel will have left Izabelin somewhere between 1890
and 1900 as all children was born in "Russia". They had 3 children,
Moshe/Moses/Morris (B 1886 - D 1959) married Esther Rose Silver in London
1893 (my grandparents)
Nosen/Nathan (B 1890), who also became a Rev, serving in the forces and Port
Elizabeth and Brisbane before coming back to London (Chingford & Higham
Park. His wife is said to have been called Evelyn but I have been unable to
trace the marriage so far - they had 3 children, Honor, Carmel & Basil
Esther / Ethel (b 1883) known to have gone to South Africa and since I have
lost all trace of her

I have tried searching the databases and there is nothing that immediately
jumps out! If any of this rings bells with anyone or you can offer any ideas
please do contact me

Best wishes

Rachel Poole
Leicestershire, England


NEW! Miskolc Website #general

hekenvin@...
 

You are cordially invited to visit the new Shtetlinks website for
Miskolc, Hungary, the capital of Borsod-Abauj-Zemplen county, at
http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/Miskolc/index.html.

The new website includes numerous photographs, stories about Miskolc
families and luminaries >from Miskolc, information about the Holocaust
in Miskolc and a gallery of Miskolc Holocaust martyrs, travel reports,
suggested resources for Miskolc researchers, and many other exciting
articles of interest.

Those of you who have roots in Miskolc are welcome to submit
photographs, documents, and stories for the website. Instructions for
sending material may be accessed via the website's Home Page, at
the address above.

Helene Kenvin
Webmaster: Miskolc website


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen NEW! Miskolc Website #general

hekenvin@...
 

You are cordially invited to visit the new Shtetlinks website for
Miskolc, Hungary, the capital of Borsod-Abauj-Zemplen county, at
http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/Miskolc/index.html.

The new website includes numerous photographs, stories about Miskolc
families and luminaries >from Miskolc, information about the Holocaust
in Miskolc and a gallery of Miskolc Holocaust martyrs, travel reports,
suggested resources for Miskolc researchers, and many other exciting
articles of interest.

Those of you who have roots in Miskolc are welcome to submit
photographs, documents, and stories for the website. Instructions for
sending material may be accessed via the website's Home Page, at
the address above.

Helene Kenvin
Webmaster: Miskolc website


Re: Vienna School for Tailors #general

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Renee Lehmann Milton of Coos Bay, Oregon wrote; My great grandfather was sent
to Vienna, Austria to be trained as a tailor. Does anyone know of any such
school in the 1870-80s? Peter Zavon of Penfield, NY writes: "I suspect he was
sent to Vienna because that was where the tailor was to whom he was
apprenticed, not so he could attend a formal school for tailors."

Of course, I do not know the details of Renee's gt-grandfather's educational
sojourn in Vienna, but I see no reason why he did not attend a Fachschule fur
Herren Schneiderei. The Viennese school and educational system was very
advanced [note the quality and intellect of many of its pupils]. For those
pupils with a less academic bent, there were numerous training establishments
for various trades. At the age of 14 or thereabouts, these children might have
attended a Fachschule [Trade school] and spent some of their time apprenticed
to a commercial establishment connected to the trade they were studying.

I would have to look up old directories [yes, Vienna had directories too in
this period!] to see listings of such schools. If you look at the current
listings, you will see one here:
http://www.lehrerweb.at/index.php?page=Fachschulen

Fachschule fur Mode und Bekleidungstechnik; Wien 15, Siebeneichengasse

In this context, I was amused to receive a letter >from a correspondent
who saw a picture of Vienna in the inter-war years and commented that
Vienna seemed "very with it". Yes, it was very "with it", even sixty
years before this and even well before that; in fact one of the most
"with-it" places in the world!

I know of one men's outfitters still in operation in Vienna which was
founded in 1866. The shop is much as it was then - there was a large
Jewish clientele throughout the Habsburg Empire including Galicia.
One of my "family tree dwellers" Sigmund [Salomon Mendel] SCHNEPP
born Lemberg/Lwow Aug 7 1856, was one of their prize salesman in Galicia.
The order books are still intact. I very much doubt that that such a
high-class establishment, and there were many others too, would take
on an apprentice without any previous training, as standards were
extremely high. Sigmund SCHNEPP was always impeccably dressed see:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cam37/668283326/in/set-72157600562507129/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cam37/667425741/in/set-72157600562507129/

Celia Male [U.K.]


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen re: Vienna School for Tailors #general

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Renee Lehmann Milton of Coos Bay, Oregon wrote; My great grandfather was sent
to Vienna, Austria to be trained as a tailor. Does anyone know of any such
school in the 1870-80s? Peter Zavon of Penfield, NY writes: "I suspect he was
sent to Vienna because that was where the tailor was to whom he was
apprenticed, not so he could attend a formal school for tailors."

Of course, I do not know the details of Renee's gt-grandfather's educational
sojourn in Vienna, but I see no reason why he did not attend a Fachschule fur
Herren Schneiderei. The Viennese school and educational system was very
advanced [note the quality and intellect of many of its pupils]. For those
pupils with a less academic bent, there were numerous training establishments
for various trades. At the age of 14 or thereabouts, these children might have
attended a Fachschule [Trade school] and spent some of their time apprenticed
to a commercial establishment connected to the trade they were studying.

I would have to look up old directories [yes, Vienna had directories too in
this period!] to see listings of such schools. If you look at the current
listings, you will see one here:
http://www.lehrerweb.at/index.php?page=Fachschulen

Fachschule fur Mode und Bekleidungstechnik; Wien 15, Siebeneichengasse

In this context, I was amused to receive a letter >from a correspondent
who saw a picture of Vienna in the inter-war years and commented that
Vienna seemed "very with it". Yes, it was very "with it", even sixty
years before this and even well before that; in fact one of the most
"with-it" places in the world!

I know of one men's outfitters still in operation in Vienna which was
founded in 1866. The shop is much as it was then - there was a large
Jewish clientele throughout the Habsburg Empire including Galicia.
One of my "family tree dwellers" Sigmund [Salomon Mendel] SCHNEPP
born Lemberg/Lwow Aug 7 1856, was one of their prize salesman in Galicia.
The order books are still intact. I very much doubt that that such a
high-class establishment, and there were many others too, would take
on an apprentice without any previous training, as standards were
extremely high. Sigmund SCHNEPP was always impeccably dressed see:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cam37/668283326/in/set-72157600562507129/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cam37/667425741/in/set-72157600562507129/

Celia Male [U.K.]