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Christine Crawford-Oppenheimer's post
#germany
Bob Weinberg <weinberg@...>
The article in Slate on Ashkenazi family names cited by her contains
a large no. of appropriately described derivations and a relatively small no. of bloopers. In Germany before the adoption of family names, women often carried a patronymic (rather than matronymic) as their second given name; the origin of Dreyfuss -- a very old name -- if often stated to come >from Treves rather than "3-legged"; "Berl" was actually a male name and is not connected with Berliner; Gans was not a name given by vindictive 19th century officials but rather a name traceable, at least in Germany, back to the 16th century if not earlier (e.g., David Gans, collaborator with Tycho Brahe the astronomer). All in all, however, a pretty high score for correctness! Bob Weinberg, Brookline MA weinberg@wi.mit.edu Eastern Westphalian families including WEINBERG, FEIBES, SACHS, HEINE, GRUENEWALD, BOAS The article in Slate on Ashkenazi family names cited by her contains a = large no. of appropriately described derivations and a relatively small = no. of bloopers. In Germany before the adoption of family names, women = often carried a patronymic (rather than matronymic) as their second = given name; the origin of Dreyfuss -- a very old name -- if often stated = to come >from Treves rather than "3-legged"; "Berl" was actually a male = name and is not connected with Berliner; Gans was not a name given by = vindictive 19th century officials but rather a name traceable, at least = in Germany, back to the 16th century if not earlier (e.g., David Gans, = collaborator with Tycho Brahe the astronomer). All in all, however, a = pretty high score for correctness! Bob Weinberg, Brookline MA weinberg@wi.mit.edu=20 Eastern Westphalian families including WEINBERG, FEIBES, SACHS, HEINE, = GRUENEWALD, BOAS=20
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German SIG #Germany Christine Crawford-Oppenheimer's post
#germany
Bob Weinberg <weinberg@...>
The article in Slate on Ashkenazi family names cited by her contains
a large no. of appropriately described derivations and a relatively small no. of bloopers. In Germany before the adoption of family names, women often carried a patronymic (rather than matronymic) as their second given name; the origin of Dreyfuss -- a very old name -- if often stated to come >from Treves rather than "3-legged"; "Berl" was actually a male name and is not connected with Berliner; Gans was not a name given by vindictive 19th century officials but rather a name traceable, at least in Germany, back to the 16th century if not earlier (e.g., David Gans, collaborator with Tycho Brahe the astronomer). All in all, however, a pretty high score for correctness! Bob Weinberg, Brookline MA weinberg@wi.mit.edu Eastern Westphalian families including WEINBERG, FEIBES, SACHS, HEINE, GRUENEWALD, BOAS The article in Slate on Ashkenazi family names cited by her contains a = large no. of appropriately described derivations and a relatively small = no. of bloopers. In Germany before the adoption of family names, women = often carried a patronymic (rather than matronymic) as their second = given name; the origin of Dreyfuss -- a very old name -- if often stated = to come >from Treves rather than "3-legged"; "Berl" was actually a male = name and is not connected with Berliner; Gans was not a name given by = vindictive 19th century officials but rather a name traceable, at least = in Germany, back to the 16th century if not earlier (e.g., David Gans, = collaborator with Tycho Brahe the astronomer). All in all, however, a = pretty high score for correctness! Bob Weinberg, Brookline MA weinberg@wi.mit.edu=20 Eastern Westphalian families including WEINBERG, FEIBES, SACHS, HEINE, = GRUENEWALD, BOAS=20
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Correction Re: AMEND, Bertha, of Denver, Colorado
#germany
Hansmartin Unger <hansmartin.unger@...>
I made a mistake:
AMEND, Berta was born 1905 in SIOFOK-Hungary and came in the USA abt. 1947 >from STUTTGART/Germany-US Zone, Landhausstrasse 54. She had a daughter - born abt. 1930-1934- Traudel AAMEND married to an Amercian soldier(war-bride) the last information was that Mrs AMEND,Berta, was living in Denver -Colorado since 1954 at 904 E-10th Ave. Thanks for any help Hansmartin Unger,Switzerland
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German SIG #Germany Correction Re: AMEND, Bertha, of Denver, Colorado
#germany
Hansmartin Unger <hansmartin.unger@...>
I made a mistake:
AMEND, Berta was born 1905 in SIOFOK-Hungary and came in the USA abt. 1947 >from STUTTGART/Germany-US Zone, Landhausstrasse 54. She had a daughter - born abt. 1930-1934- Traudel AAMEND married to an Amercian soldier(war-bride) the last information was that Mrs AMEND,Berta, was living in Denver -Colorado since 1954 at 904 E-10th Ave. Thanks for any help Hansmartin Unger,Switzerland
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Subject: Origins of Jewish names SITE CITE and name questions
#germany
Alan Ehrlich
Christine Crawford-Oppenheimer: SITE CITE concerning Slate.com "Jewish
Surnames Explained". Unfortunately, there is considerable error and misinformation in this blog article I'd be happy to enumerate off-list. Kind regards, Alan Ehrlich Geneva, Switzerland
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German SIG #Germany Subject: Origins of Jewish names SITE CITE and name questions
#germany
Alan Ehrlich
Christine Crawford-Oppenheimer: SITE CITE concerning Slate.com "Jewish
Surnames Explained". Unfortunately, there is considerable error and misinformation in this blog article I'd be happy to enumerate off-list. Kind regards, Alan Ehrlich Geneva, Switzerland
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Re: Origins of Jewish names SITE CITE and name questions
#germany
Christine Crawford-Oppenheimer
Roger, thank you for your (as usual) useful comments about this
article. Another comment I thought of making earlier was his suggestion that the surname London was given to people at immigration to the US by officials who didn't understand the immigrants' actual name. The myth of "name changes at Ellis Island" persists despite serious genealogists' attempts to debunk it. The officials at Ellis Island had translators who spoke a myriad of languages, *and* the people's names came off the ship manifests that were prepared in the country of origin. Changes soon after people arrived in America were a result of people wanting a name that sounded more "American," not the result of official people being obtuse. The map with the article looked as if it might be interesting, by on my computer, even using <CTRL>+ to enlarge it, I couldn't make it large enough to read the legend, so I couldn't figure out what it was about--possibly number or Jews or percentage of Jews in various areas? Christine Crawford-Oppenheimer Hyde Park, NY christine3cats@gmail.com
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German SIG #Germany Re: Origins of Jewish names SITE CITE and name questions
#germany
Christine Crawford-Oppenheimer
Roger, thank you for your (as usual) useful comments about this
article. Another comment I thought of making earlier was his suggestion that the surname London was given to people at immigration to the US by officials who didn't understand the immigrants' actual name. The myth of "name changes at Ellis Island" persists despite serious genealogists' attempts to debunk it. The officials at Ellis Island had translators who spoke a myriad of languages, *and* the people's names came off the ship manifests that were prepared in the country of origin. Changes soon after people arrived in America were a result of people wanting a name that sounded more "American," not the result of official people being obtuse. The map with the article looked as if it might be interesting, by on my computer, even using <CTRL>+ to enlarge it, I couldn't make it large enough to read the legend, so I couldn't figure out what it was about--possibly number or Jews or percentage of Jews in various areas? Christine Crawford-Oppenheimer Hyde Park, NY christine3cats@gmail.com
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Re: Origins of Jewish names SITE CITE and name questions
#germany
Roger Lustig
I would not recommend this article. It gives no sources, contains
internal contradictions as Christine notes (not to mention having two divergent sections devoted to animal names); and is full of errors and myths. Start with the "Ekelnamen" (ugly names) myth, which he calls "insulting names." Not only does he not give any reason to believe that surnames were assigned, but none of the examples he gives is insulting! Anyone who thinks it's an insult to carry the name GANS (which means goose, but probably has a different derivation in this case) should read a little Jewish history. There have been famous GANSes since the 16thC. Mistakes abound in the article. "Zweig" means "branch/twig," not "wreath." "Fried" means "peace," not "happiness." HOFFMANN has nothing to do with hope--it's a job (estate manager). So is HOLLAENDER, sometimes (dairyman). KAGAN has nothing to do with the Khazars--it's KOHEN spelled the Russian way. LONDON was spelled that way long before anyone emigrated. What's the plural of 'shtetl'? And what is a "second-rank Levite"??? GOLDMANN is an actual German surname, and also a German-Jewish one (half a column in Menk); but it doesn't necessarily denote a goldsmith; besides, we have the ultra-widespread GOLDSCHMIDT for that. The patronymics/matronymics business is also confused. There are matronymic-based surnames (REICHLIN, RIFKIN); but women were generally referred to by the name of their father or their husband. The names he gives as acronyms include METZ and SACHS, which could just as well be toponyms (place-name derived). The list goes on and on. On the other hand, the map at the top of the page is one of my very favorites. Finally, along with Menk's German-surname dictionary I'd recommend Alexander Beider's fine books on Eastern European Jewish surnames, not to mention his (now-out-of-print) one on old surnames >from Prague. Roger Lustig Princeton, NJ USA research coordinator, GerSIG On 1/9/2014 7:00 PM, Christine Crawford-Oppenheimer wrote: We sometimes have questions about this on the list, so I thought I'd[Mod note: The above is a SLATE.com blog page containing advertising. The time tested and favored sources on this subject are the classic _ A Dictionary of Jewish Names and Their History_ by Benzion C. Kaganoff and, for Germany, _A Dictionary of German-Jewish Surnames_ by Lars Menk ]
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German SIG #Germany Re: Origins of Jewish names SITE CITE and name questions
#germany
Roger Lustig
I would not recommend this article. It gives no sources, contains
internal contradictions as Christine notes (not to mention having two divergent sections devoted to animal names); and is full of errors and myths. Start with the "Ekelnamen" (ugly names) myth, which he calls "insulting names." Not only does he not give any reason to believe that surnames were assigned, but none of the examples he gives is insulting! Anyone who thinks it's an insult to carry the name GANS (which means goose, but probably has a different derivation in this case) should read a little Jewish history. There have been famous GANSes since the 16thC. Mistakes abound in the article. "Zweig" means "branch/twig," not "wreath." "Fried" means "peace," not "happiness." HOFFMANN has nothing to do with hope--it's a job (estate manager). So is HOLLAENDER, sometimes (dairyman). KAGAN has nothing to do with the Khazars--it's KOHEN spelled the Russian way. LONDON was spelled that way long before anyone emigrated. What's the plural of 'shtetl'? And what is a "second-rank Levite"??? GOLDMANN is an actual German surname, and also a German-Jewish one (half a column in Menk); but it doesn't necessarily denote a goldsmith; besides, we have the ultra-widespread GOLDSCHMIDT for that. The patronymics/matronymics business is also confused. There are matronymic-based surnames (REICHLIN, RIFKIN); but women were generally referred to by the name of their father or their husband. The names he gives as acronyms include METZ and SACHS, which could just as well be toponyms (place-name derived). The list goes on and on. On the other hand, the map at the top of the page is one of my very favorites. Finally, along with Menk's German-surname dictionary I'd recommend Alexander Beider's fine books on Eastern European Jewish surnames, not to mention his (now-out-of-print) one on old surnames >from Prague. Roger Lustig Princeton, NJ USA research coordinator, GerSIG On 1/9/2014 7:00 PM, Christine Crawford-Oppenheimer wrote: We sometimes have questions about this on the list, so I thought I'd[Mod note: The above is a SLATE.com blog page containing advertising. The time tested and favored sources on this subject are the classic _ A Dictionary of Jewish Names and Their History_ by Benzion C. Kaganoff and, for Germany, _A Dictionary of German-Jewish Surnames_ by Lars Menk ]
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Sources for book Records of the Franklin family and collaterals by Arthur Ellis Franklin
#unitedkingdom
Naomi Cream
I wonder if anyone knows where I can find the SOURCES for the collaterals of the above family. The first edition was published in 1915 and the second in 1935. The informants are listed in the introduction but there are no further details.
There is no information in MS120 in the Franklin collection at the Hartley Library in the University of Southampton apart >from details of the Franklin family itself. I also wonder if anyone can tell me about David Kaufmann 1852-1899 who is listed as an author in very modern descriptions of the book for sale. Naomi Cream, London UK (searching LYON in Liverpool)
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JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom Sources for book Records of the Franklin family and collaterals by Arthur Ellis Franklin
#unitedkingdom
Naomi Cream
I wonder if anyone knows where I can find the SOURCES for the collaterals of the above family. The first edition was published in 1915 and the second in 1935. The informants are listed in the introduction but there are no further details.
There is no information in MS120 in the Franklin collection at the Hartley Library in the University of Southampton apart >from details of the Franklin family itself. I also wonder if anyone can tell me about David Kaufmann 1852-1899 who is listed as an author in very modern descriptions of the book for sale. Naomi Cream, London UK (searching LYON in Liverpool)
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Finding family Israel to Milwaukee
#general
aiginsburg
Please help Arie Kagan in Israel find his family
Arie Kagan's aunt (sister of his father) Immigrated to the US >from Israel around 1966-67 probably to Milwaukee. unfortunately i don't have their last name Names: Hana (known as Hanebashe), her husband: Gutel or Gitel, their daughter: Michal (known as Michle) with 3 children: Haya (or Hana) at that time she was around 8 David, at that time 5-6, Eliyahu was few month old. Aaron Ginsburg aaron.ginsburg@gmail.com Foxboro, MA USA searching Ginsburg, Kusinitz, Cirlin (Dokshitsy, Parfionova, Glubokie) Pokross, Pokrassa(Gorodische near Cherassy, Ukraine, Fall River, MA
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JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Finding family Israel to Milwaukee
#general
aiginsburg
Please help Arie Kagan in Israel find his family
Arie Kagan's aunt (sister of his father) Immigrated to the US >from Israel around 1966-67 probably to Milwaukee. unfortunately i don't have their last name Names: Hana (known as Hanebashe), her husband: Gutel or Gitel, their daughter: Michal (known as Michle) with 3 children: Haya (or Hana) at that time she was around 8 David, at that time 5-6, Eliyahu was few month old. Aaron Ginsburg aaron.ginsburg@gmail.com Foxboro, MA USA searching Ginsburg, Kusinitz, Cirlin (Dokshitsy, Parfionova, Glubokie) Pokross, Pokrassa(Gorodische near Cherassy, Ukraine, Fall River, MA
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Burials
#unitedkingdom
Shirley Collier
Regarding the question of why there are unmarked graves apart >from those of suicides, I know personally of a situation where the United Synagogue paid for a burial but refused to allow a stone to be placed on the grave unless the family first paid for the burial.
Shirley Collier East of London UK
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JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom Burials
#unitedkingdom
Shirley Collier
Regarding the question of why there are unmarked graves apart >from those of suicides, I know personally of a situation where the United Synagogue paid for a burial but refused to allow a stone to be placed on the grave unless the family first paid for the burial.
Shirley Collier East of London UK
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Illegal border crossing US to Canada
#general
Roberta Sheps
I'd like to thank everyone who has replied to my request for assistance in
suggestions as to how and where my relative could have crossed into Canada. I was pretty certain that they didn't pass through any checkpoints, but the suggestions that had he done so, it was unlikely that immigration officers would have required much more than names was something I had not thought of. Also, the suggestions as to why they went >from (probably) upstate New York to Manitoba were very helpful as well. In my email I said that I thought it was odd that his daughter (the first child) was born back in Connecticut, but a number of people have suggested that his wife wanted to be with her family at that time and might have thought that facilities would be better. This has led me to wonder whether any of their other children were born in Connecticut. I know that the youngest were born in Canada, but there were 12 altogether, so it's quite possible that a few of the older ones were in deed born in Connecticut. So now I have a number of new leads to follow. Thanks a bunch. No, really. Best wishes and thanks and a Happy New Year to all, Roberta Sheps Colchester, UK (born in Winnipeg) Searching COHEN, KLAIMON, GROSSMAN, SPIVAK, and PORTIGAL Talna/Kiev (Ukraine) later Winnipeg; BELOVITSKY(I), BELOV/BELOFF/BELL:(Popishok/Popiskes), Lithuania/Montreal/ Winnipeg and other towns in Manitoba; YAFFE: Wiliez, nr Disna, Vilna Gubernia/ Winnipeg/Montreal/ North Dakota; SHEPS, KRASNOW and POTASHNIKOW: Scierps (Poland), Olgapol (Ukraine) and Odessa area
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JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Illegal border crossing US to Canada
#general
Roberta Sheps
I'd like to thank everyone who has replied to my request for assistance in
suggestions as to how and where my relative could have crossed into Canada. I was pretty certain that they didn't pass through any checkpoints, but the suggestions that had he done so, it was unlikely that immigration officers would have required much more than names was something I had not thought of. Also, the suggestions as to why they went >from (probably) upstate New York to Manitoba were very helpful as well. In my email I said that I thought it was odd that his daughter (the first child) was born back in Connecticut, but a number of people have suggested that his wife wanted to be with her family at that time and might have thought that facilities would be better. This has led me to wonder whether any of their other children were born in Connecticut. I know that the youngest were born in Canada, but there were 12 altogether, so it's quite possible that a few of the older ones were in deed born in Connecticut. So now I have a number of new leads to follow. Thanks a bunch. No, really. Best wishes and thanks and a Happy New Year to all, Roberta Sheps Colchester, UK (born in Winnipeg) Searching COHEN, KLAIMON, GROSSMAN, SPIVAK, and PORTIGAL Talna/Kiev (Ukraine) later Winnipeg; BELOVITSKY(I), BELOV/BELOFF/BELL:(Popishok/Popiskes), Lithuania/Montreal/ Winnipeg and other towns in Manitoba; YAFFE: Wiliez, nr Disna, Vilna Gubernia/ Winnipeg/Montreal/ North Dakota; SHEPS, KRASNOW and POTASHNIKOW: Scierps (Poland), Olgapol (Ukraine) and Odessa area
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Re: Early London Insurance Policies
#unitedkingdom
thewoolfs@...
Dear Louise
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I can't thank you and Petra enough for this massive project. Â Some years ago George Rigal had supplied me with details of the policies for many of my family, enabling me to look at the Sun registers first at the Guildhall Library and later at the Metropolitan Archives. Since then he had clearly added a lot more data. The timing for the release this dataset could not be better. The Anglo Jewish Special Interest Group of the JGSGB had chosen business records as their topic for 16th February. Again many thanks for making this information available. Sue Woolf researching BARNARD, JOSHUA, JACOBS
-----Original Message-----Subject: Early London-based Insurance Policies
- Jewish SurnamesFrom: louisemessik@gmail.comDate: Tue, 7 Jan 2014 13:35:49 -0000X-Message-Number: 2An exciting new project is unveiled today in both the online and printversions of this important dataset.The late George Rigal (a founder member of the Jewish Genealogical Societyof Great Britain, who died two years ago) spent many years combing throughmid-18th-to mid-19th century insurance records in the Guildhall Library inLondon, seeking out policies taken out by Jews.The resultant huge datasetis a scrupulous piece of research that will be of great value togenealogists and historians alike. The records contain names, addresses,occupations, dates and much more.Several years ago, George gave Petra Laidlaw a copy of the data, and agreedthat she should help him to prepare it for publication. With its obsoletefile formats, it took much longer to bring to fruition than originallyhoped, and a year ago Petra approached me for help. We have finally beenable to produce a full dataset which follows as exactly as possible George?soriginal transcript.� �With the encouragement of George?s family, and monthsof painstaking transcription work, proofing and reproofing, Petra and I arehappy to say that it is now available to all. �>from 8th January you will be able to search online, by individual name, atwww.jewishgen.org/databases/UK. Those who are interested in acquiring aprint version of the whole dataset should go tohttp://www.lulu.com/spotlight/georgerigal. It comes in two volumes, and youcan get it hardback or softback. The profit >from any sale of the publishedbooks will go to the charity which has been nominated by the Rigal family.Neither Petra Laidlaw nor I have any financial interest in the publications.Louise MessikSpainMODERATOR'S NOTE: Louise and Petra have been major contributors to not only Jewish Genealogy but to genealogy generally for many years. Louise was moderator of this SIG prior to me as well as active in numerous other projects for JGSGB. Petra'a definitive study of the Jewish Community in Britain in 1850has been applauded worldwide. She received special recognition >from theIAJGS for it several years ago.
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JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom Re:Early London Insurance Policies
#unitedkingdom
thewoolfs@...
Dear Louise
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I can't thank you and Petra enough for this massive project. Â Some years ago George Rigal had supplied me with details of the policies for many of my family, enabling me to look at the Sun registers first at the Guildhall Library and later at the Metropolitan Archives. Since then he had clearly added a lot more data. The timing for the release this dataset could not be better. The Anglo Jewish Special Interest Group of the JGSGB had chosen business records as their topic for 16th February. Again many thanks for making this information available. Sue Woolf researching BARNARD, JOSHUA, JACOBS
-----Original Message-----Subject: Early London-based Insurance Policies
- Jewish SurnamesFrom: louisemessik@gmail.comDate: Tue, 7 Jan 2014 13:35:49 -0000X-Message-Number: 2An exciting new project is unveiled today in both the online and printversions of this important dataset.The late George Rigal (a founder member of the Jewish Genealogical Societyof Great Britain, who died two years ago) spent many years combing throughmid-18th-to mid-19th century insurance records in the Guildhall Library inLondon, seeking out policies taken out by Jews.The resultant huge datasetis a scrupulous piece of research that will be of great value togenealogists and historians alike. The records contain names, addresses,occupations, dates and much more.Several years ago, George gave Petra Laidlaw a copy of the data, and agreedthat she should help him to prepare it for publication. With its obsoletefile formats, it took much longer to bring to fruition than originallyhoped, and a year ago Petra approached me for help. We have finally beenable to produce a full dataset which follows as exactly as possible George?soriginal transcript.� �With the encouragement of George?s family, and monthsof painstaking transcription work, proofing and reproofing, Petra and I arehappy to say that it is now available to all. �>from 8th January you will be able to search online, by individual name, atwww.jewishgen.org/databases/UK. Those who are interested in acquiring aprint version of the whole dataset should go tohttp://www.lulu.com/spotlight/georgerigal. It comes in two volumes, and youcan get it hardback or softback. The profit >from any sale of the publishedbooks will go to the charity which has been nominated by the Rigal family.Neither Petra Laidlaw nor I have any financial interest in the publications.Louise MessikSpainMODERATOR'S NOTE: Louise and Petra have been major contributors to not only Jewish Genealogy but to genealogy generally for many years. Louise was moderator of this SIG prior to me as well as active in numerous other projects for JGSGB. Petra'a definitive study of the Jewish Community in Britain in 1850has been applauded worldwide. She received special recognition >from theIAJGS for it several years ago.
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