Date   

Re: FrenchSig #general

SJHogarth <sjhogarth@...>
 

Would someone who belongs to the FrenchSig group please contact me
privately. I have some questions about a letter that I received.

Sharen Hogarth
mailto:sjhogarth@rogers.com

MODERATOR'S NOTE: The French SIG can be contacted at:
http://www.jewishgen.org/French


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: FrenchSig #general

SJHogarth <sjhogarth@...>
 

Would someone who belongs to the FrenchSig group please contact me
privately. I have some questions about a letter that I received.

Sharen Hogarth
mailto:sjhogarth@rogers.com

MODERATOR'S NOTE: The French SIG can be contacted at:
http://www.jewishgen.org/French


Re: with DNA it's yea or nay #dna

Melodykatz@...
 

In a message dated 2/27/02 9:31:08 PM, cwskydell@earthlink.net writes:

Carol, it is possible that somewhere along the male line, someone in an
earlier generation was adopted or part of the male line descended >from the
mother's first marriage. I would still be amazed if the families were not
connected somehow. Too many coincidences!
Melody

<< We are still left with the mystery of how such an unusual surname came to
be in two Jewish families......but that's a matter of conjecture since
there are no records on a surname designation. I guess we can play with
that one for a long time to come.

Carol Skydell
Laguna Woods, CA
>>

[MODERATOR NOTE: DNA testing is really not a Galician topic, but since
Carol openned up this discussion, answers will be allowed for today only.
Any further discussion should be private and sent directly sent to Carol at
<cwskydell@earthlink.net> ]


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia Re: with DNA it's yea or nay #galicia

Melodykatz@...
 

In a message dated 2/27/02 9:31:08 PM, cwskydell@earthlink.net writes:

Carol, it is possible that somewhere along the male line, someone in an
earlier generation was adopted or part of the male line descended >from the
mother's first marriage. I would still be amazed if the families were not
connected somehow. Too many coincidences!
Melody

<< We are still left with the mystery of how such an unusual surname came to
be in two Jewish families......but that's a matter of conjecture since
there are no records on a surname designation. I guess we can play with
that one for a long time to come.

Carol Skydell
Laguna Woods, CA
>>

[MODERATOR NOTE: DNA testing is really not a Galician topic, but since
Carol openned up this discussion, answers will be allowed for today only.
Any further discussion should be private and sent directly sent to Carol at
<cwskydell@earthlink.net> ]


Re: with DNA it's yea or nay #dna

moishe@langsam.com <moishe@...>
 

Many members of my LANGSAM clan have the surname via their
great-grandmothers, so a surname does not always mean paternity.

-Moishe


Wrong! The resultant DNA tests between direct male descendants >from
each family line did not match on a single marker!
[MODERATOR NOTE: DNA testing is really not a Galician topic, but since
Carol openned up this discussion, answers will be allowed for today only.
Any further discussion should be private and sent directly sent to Carol at
<cwskydell@earthlink.net> ]


Re: galicia digest: February 27, 2002 #galicia

Joan Krotenberg
 

In reply to Carol's negative DNA tests, I had the opposite experience. The
Krotenbergs originated in Warsaw, Poland. We have discovered Krotenbergs in
Poland, Spain, Israel, Australia, France and the United States. We knew some
of the connections >from records. We choose three male Krotenbergs including
my husband, who if their DNA matched would connect all the known Krotenberg
families. All three were a perfect match on all 12 markers. This indicates
that they had a common ancestor. Oral tradition did speak of a common
ancestor. But we do not know how far back he lived or who he was. We now
call all the Krotenberg descendants cousins.
Joan Krotenberg
JoanK16157@aol.com

Searching KROTENBERG, KAFKA, COFSKY, >from Warsaw, Poland
HAGLER, FEIN, FELLER, >from Lutowiska, Poland
STREICHLER, BRODBAR, HIRSCHENFANG, >from Rohaytn and Knyazhnychi, Ukraine
MERER, CHESAK, >from Slonim and David Gorodok, Belarus

[MODERATOR NOTE: DNA testing is really not a Galician topic, but since
Carol openned up this discussion, answers will be allowed for today only.
Any further discussion should be private and sent directly sent to Carol at
<cwskydell@earthlink.net> ]


Re: Chatam Sofer #rabbinic

shalom fuchs <shalomfuchs@...>
 

On 2002-02-27, Moshe Dovid Friedman <moshetanach@yahoo.com> wrote:

Does Anyone know if any Chasidic Rebbes (Munkatch, Lubavitch,
Vizhnitz Belz etc.) or other gedolim such as the Vilna Gaon or
the Maharal are related to the Chasam Sofer (R' Moshe Sofer) or
to R' Akiva Eiger? If so, how?
According to the book of the EGER Family Association, written by
Akiva Eger(!) >from Kibutz Netzer Sireni, 1996. In the Akiva EGER
ancestor's (father's) side, there is the MaHaRaL, and the Tosfot
Yom Tov (not direct lineage).

By his descendants, I found the Radzin dynasty (Leiner), and
(Lehavdil!), close to the family, there is a very famous Jew, not
a Rabbi - Karl MARX! Some of the Munkatch and the Viznitz are
related also to the Tosfot Yom Tov (Heller), but it is too far.

Shalom Fuchs


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia Re: with DNA it's yea or nay #galicia

moishe@langsam.com <moishe@...>
 

Many members of my LANGSAM clan have the surname via their
great-grandmothers, so a surname does not always mean paternity.

-Moishe


Wrong! The resultant DNA tests between direct male descendants >from
each family line did not match on a single marker!
[MODERATOR NOTE: DNA testing is really not a Galician topic, but since
Carol openned up this discussion, answers will be allowed for today only.
Any further discussion should be private and sent directly sent to Carol at
<cwskydell@earthlink.net> ]


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia Re: galicia digest: February 27, 2002 #galicia

Joan Krotenberg
 

In reply to Carol's negative DNA tests, I had the opposite experience. The
Krotenbergs originated in Warsaw, Poland. We have discovered Krotenbergs in
Poland, Spain, Israel, Australia, France and the United States. We knew some
of the connections >from records. We choose three male Krotenbergs including
my husband, who if their DNA matched would connect all the known Krotenberg
families. All three were a perfect match on all 12 markers. This indicates
that they had a common ancestor. Oral tradition did speak of a common
ancestor. But we do not know how far back he lived or who he was. We now
call all the Krotenberg descendants cousins.
Joan Krotenberg
JoanK16157@aol.com

Searching KROTENBERG, KAFKA, COFSKY, >from Warsaw, Poland
HAGLER, FEIN, FELLER, >from Lutowiska, Poland
STREICHLER, BRODBAR, HIRSCHENFANG, >from Rohaytn and Knyazhnychi, Ukraine
MERER, CHESAK, >from Slonim and David Gorodok, Belarus

[MODERATOR NOTE: DNA testing is really not a Galician topic, but since
Carol openned up this discussion, answers will be allowed for today only.
Any further discussion should be private and sent directly sent to Carol at
<cwskydell@earthlink.net> ]


Rabbinic Genealogy SIG #Rabbinic Re: Chatam Sofer #rabbinic

shalom fuchs <shalomfuchs@...>
 

On 2002-02-27, Moshe Dovid Friedman <moshetanach@yahoo.com> wrote:

Does Anyone know if any Chasidic Rebbes (Munkatch, Lubavitch,
Vizhnitz Belz etc.) or other gedolim such as the Vilna Gaon or
the Maharal are related to the Chasam Sofer (R' Moshe Sofer) or
to R' Akiva Eiger? If so, how?
According to the book of the EGER Family Association, written by
Akiva Eger(!) >from Kibutz Netzer Sireni, 1996. In the Akiva EGER
ancestor's (father's) side, there is the MaHaRaL, and the Tosfot
Yom Tov (not direct lineage).

By his descendants, I found the Radzin dynasty (Leiner), and
(Lehavdil!), close to the family, there is a very famous Jew, not
a Rabbi - Karl MARX! Some of the Munkatch and the Viznitz are
related also to the Tosfot Yom Tov (Heller), but it is too far.

Shalom Fuchs


Re: with DNA it's yea or nay #dna

Adelle Gloger
 

Carol's story was very interesting to say the least. It isn't as if the
surname was Schwartz, or Goldberg. My vote is for "Lab Error." We have all
been victim of such errors for far simpler lab tests. I think somebody "fell
asleep at the wheel."

I think the two families should adopt each other as family !

My personal experience has been this.

When the DNA testing was first offered through JewishGen, we discussed the
issue with our Rabbi since my younger son was about to be married. The
reason this issue came up was because one of my husband's 1st cousins (who he
had not had contact with in over 40 years), the son of his father's brother,
said they were Cohanim. News to my husband. If his 1st cousin was a Cohane
then it follows he was also. Why not get the DNA test to prove it. Well,
the bottom line was that the Rabbi said that for purposes of determining that
line, the DNA test were not reliable.

So, perhaps reliability is the issue in Carol's case. If we did not have
DNA testing the two families would have accepted each other as family. So
forget the DNA ! Enjoy your new family.


Adelle Weintraub Gloger
Shaker Hts., Ohio
agloger@aol.com

[MODERATOR NOTE: DNA testing is really not a Galician topic, but since
Carol openned up this discussion, answers will be allowed for today only.
Any further discussion should be private and sent directly sent to Carol at
<cwskydell@earthlink.net> ]


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia Re: with DNA it's yea or nay #galicia

Adelle Gloger
 

Carol's story was very interesting to say the least. It isn't as if the
surname was Schwartz, or Goldberg. My vote is for "Lab Error." We have all
been victim of such errors for far simpler lab tests. I think somebody "fell
asleep at the wheel."

I think the two families should adopt each other as family !

My personal experience has been this.

When the DNA testing was first offered through JewishGen, we discussed the
issue with our Rabbi since my younger son was about to be married. The
reason this issue came up was because one of my husband's 1st cousins (who he
had not had contact with in over 40 years), the son of his father's brother,
said they were Cohanim. News to my husband. If his 1st cousin was a Cohane
then it follows he was also. Why not get the DNA test to prove it. Well,
the bottom line was that the Rabbi said that for purposes of determining that
line, the DNA test were not reliable.

So, perhaps reliability is the issue in Carol's case. If we did not have
DNA testing the two families would have accepted each other as family. So
forget the DNA ! Enjoy your new family.


Adelle Weintraub Gloger
Shaker Hts., Ohio
agloger@aol.com

[MODERATOR NOTE: DNA testing is really not a Galician topic, but since
Carol openned up this discussion, answers will be allowed for today only.
Any further discussion should be private and sent directly sent to Carol at
<cwskydell@earthlink.net> ]


with DNA it's yea or nay #galicia

Bruce Reisch <bir1@...>
 

There may be lots of possible explanations, but one of the most
likely in my mind is that one family used the mother's surname.
Descendants of that family would not carry the same Y chromosome as
the male descendants of a family with a strict patronymic (is that
the right word?) naming pattern. Yet both families will still have a
common ancestor.

I'll bet both families are related! But proving it will be difficult
or as you say "I guess we can play with that one for a long time to
come."

Bruce REISCH
Geneva, New York
(by the way, my last name may designate my family as originating,
too, in Rzeszow a/k/a Reisha in Yiddish)


Subject: with DNA it's yea or nay
From: carol skydell <cwskydell@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 13:20:31 -0800


Now, given all that information, what would you say the chances of two
Jewish families, each with the same surname that appears nowhere else in
the United States and coming >from the same place were not related? Slim
to none, right.?

Wrong! The resultant DNA tests between direct male descendants from
each family line did not match on a single marker!
[MODERATOR NOTE: DNA testing is really not a Galician topic, but since
Carol openned up this discussion, answers will be allowed for today only.
Any further discussion should be private and sent directly sent to Carol at
<cwskydell@earthlink.net> ]


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia with DNA it's yea or nay #galicia

Bruce Reisch <bir1@...>
 

There may be lots of possible explanations, but one of the most
likely in my mind is that one family used the mother's surname.
Descendants of that family would not carry the same Y chromosome as
the male descendants of a family with a strict patronymic (is that
the right word?) naming pattern. Yet both families will still have a
common ancestor.

I'll bet both families are related! But proving it will be difficult
or as you say "I guess we can play with that one for a long time to
come."

Bruce REISCH
Geneva, New York
(by the way, my last name may designate my family as originating,
too, in Rzeszow a/k/a Reisha in Yiddish)


Subject: with DNA it's yea or nay
From: carol skydell <cwskydell@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 13:20:31 -0800


Now, given all that information, what would you say the chances of two
Jewish families, each with the same surname that appears nowhere else in
the United States and coming >from the same place were not related? Slim
to none, right.?

Wrong! The resultant DNA tests between direct male descendants from
each family line did not match on a single marker!
[MODERATOR NOTE: DNA testing is really not a Galician topic, but since
Carol openned up this discussion, answers will be allowed for today only.
Any further discussion should be private and sent directly sent to Carol at
<cwskydell@earthlink.net> ]


Need help with Polish translation (ViewMate) #galicia

Robert Mandelbaum
 

I've just received a cover letter >from a Polish archives accompanying a
number of records that I had requested. I've posted the letter to the
JewishGen ViewMate web site at
<http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/toview.html>. The particular file number
of the letter is VM1318, which can be accessed directly by going to
<http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/source/vm1318.html>. Would anyone be
willing and able to translate this for me? Any help would be greatly
appreciated. Please e-mail any responses directly to me at
rmandelbau@aol.com.

Thank you very much,
Robert Mandelbaum
New York, New York
rmandelbau@aol.com


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia Need help with Polish translation (ViewMate) #galicia

Robert Mandelbaum
 

I've just received a cover letter >from a Polish archives accompanying a
number of records that I had requested. I've posted the letter to the
JewishGen ViewMate web site at
<http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/toview.html>. The particular file number
of the letter is VM1318, which can be accessed directly by going to
<http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/source/vm1318.html>. Would anyone be
willing and able to translate this for me? Any help would be greatly
appreciated. Please e-mail any responses directly to me at
rmandelbau@aol.com.

Thank you very much,
Robert Mandelbaum
New York, New York
rmandelbau@aol.com


more on DNA, yea or nay #galicia

carol skydell <cwskydell@...>
 

First, I want to express my thanks for the bulk of messages making well
considered and reasonable suggestions as to how this circumstance could
have come about. Rather than respond individually, I think it would be
more beneficial to all who responded if I compiled the suggestions and
responded in that fashion. It will take a day or two, and since the
messages are pouring in....some not being posted to the lists since they
were not sent there, some being refused by moderators since JewishGen does
not permit flaming, I will need some time to gather and organize all the
suggestions.

Keep thinking folks, your thoughts and suggestions are always welcome.

Carol Skydell
Laguna Woods, CA


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia more on DNA, yea or nay #galicia

carol skydell <cwskydell@...>
 

First, I want to express my thanks for the bulk of messages making well
considered and reasonable suggestions as to how this circumstance could
have come about. Rather than respond individually, I think it would be
more beneficial to all who responded if I compiled the suggestions and
responded in that fashion. It will take a day or two, and since the
messages are pouring in....some not being posted to the lists since they
were not sent there, some being refused by moderators since JewishGen does
not permit flaming, I will need some time to gather and organize all the
suggestions.

Keep thinking folks, your thoughts and suggestions are always welcome.

Carol Skydell
Laguna Woods, CA


Emanuel CAPUA born Italy 1735 & Ribca TUBI/TOBY on IGI #general

BIRDEILEEN334 <birdeileen334@...>
 

I have seen an entry on the IGI for Emanuel Capua born Italy about 1735. Does
anyone know how I can find out who submitted this information please. I am
Looking for the birth of Emanuel Capua who married Ribca Toby in London England
in 1765.

Eileen Bird
England


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Emanuel CAPUA born Italy 1735 & Ribca TUBI/TOBY on IGI #general

BIRDEILEEN334 <birdeileen334@...>
 

I have seen an entry on the IGI for Emanuel Capua born Italy about 1735. Does
anyone know how I can find out who submitted this information please. I am
Looking for the birth of Emanuel Capua who married Ribca Toby in London England
in 1765.

Eileen Bird
England