Date   

Re: Name Abba #general

Michael Herzlich
 

My father was born in NYC and his given name was Abbis
on his birth certificate. We never understood where
the name came from. After birth, he was officially
referred to as Abraham on all documents after that
point in time. His parents were >from Galicia and
immigrated around 1891, about 11 years before his
birth.

Michael
Boca Raton, Fl


Dear Jewishgenners:

My great-great grandfather was named Abba KLEINMAN(N).
He was born, I believe, in Latvia's Courland district
ca. 1865, and emigrated to the United States ca. 1890.
from what little I remember >from Hebrew School, "Abba"
means "father." However, Abba seems to have had this
name all of his life--long before he became a father.
I cannot find an entry for Abba on the Given Names of
Russian Jews database on Jewishgen. Along the way,
I've come across other individual with the given name
Abba--most notably, the rabbi Abba Hillel Silver.

Is it possible that Abba is a kinnui for Abraham? I
know that Abba went by the name Abraham Abba Kleinman
in the United States.

Any and all insights would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you!

Matt Singer
Philadelphia PA


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Name Abba #general

Michael Herzlich
 

My father was born in NYC and his given name was Abbis
on his birth certificate. We never understood where
the name came from. After birth, he was officially
referred to as Abraham on all documents after that
point in time. His parents were >from Galicia and
immigrated around 1891, about 11 years before his
birth.

Michael
Boca Raton, Fl


Dear Jewishgenners:

My great-great grandfather was named Abba KLEINMAN(N).
He was born, I believe, in Latvia's Courland district
ca. 1865, and emigrated to the United States ca. 1890.
from what little I remember >from Hebrew School, "Abba"
means "father." However, Abba seems to have had this
name all of his life--long before he became a father.
I cannot find an entry for Abba on the Given Names of
Russian Jews database on Jewishgen. Along the way,
I've come across other individual with the given name
Abba--most notably, the rabbi Abba Hillel Silver.

Is it possible that Abba is a kinnui for Abraham? I
know that Abba went by the name Abraham Abba Kleinman
in the United States.

Any and all insights would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you!

Matt Singer
Philadelphia PA


Re: Understanding Arranged Marriages #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

My great grandparents met on the day of their wedding engagement party,
sometime in the 1870s, in Poland. Does anyone know if this practice was
widespread in Poland, during the 19th century? Or in the 19th century did most
Polish couples get to choose their future mates?

Were there Jewish dowries'?

Were Jewish spouses usually distant cousins? Or were they selected
for financial reason?
Dear Terri,

Just >from doing the genealogy of my own 19th century Anglo-Jewish
ancestors named Marks and Collins, I learned that cousin marriages
(not necessarily distant cousins -- it was frequently first
cousins!) were rampant in my family. Marks/Collins and
Collins/Collins marriages run into dozens. As my ancestors were
mostly not at all wealthy, financial reasons had little to do with it.

Most brides and grooms in those marriages would have known each other
from childhood, so they would not be meeting for the first time at
the "engagement" party. (That is an ultra-orthodox practice in some
circles. But it is logical to assume that most cousin marriages
must have been, if not exactly "arranged", then at least actively
encouraged by the parents. However, bear in mind that arranged
marriages were common in the dominant surrounding culture until at
least 1900 -- even among people who were not related by blood.
Before World War One, as any student of history knows, young people
(especially girls) simply did not have the freedom to walk around
unchaperoned and meet young men without the knowledge of their
parents. Everything changed after 1914. In this respect, I don't
think Jews differed much >from other 19th-century groups among whom
arranged marriages were a standard practice, which often did involve
the transfer of money in marriage settlements; and young people in
general (but especially girls) had very little choice in the matter
of selecting a spouse -- whether in England, Poland, or anywhere
else.

As for dowries, my own ancestors (Anglo-Dutch Jews who had lived in
London since about 1800) followed varying degrees of Jewish
observance in matters like kashrut and Shabbat, but certainly did not
follow a traditional lifestyle in the East European sense; and as I
said, most of them had little money. So for both of those reasons I
don't think "dowries" were a big issue with them! However, in the
formal, legal sense of the wording and signing of relevant documents,
dowries were and are a feature of Jewish law and custom, and the
dowry (nadan) is even mentioned in a standard Aramaic formula that
forms part of the ketubbah: " shtar ketubta da nedunya dan
vetosefta da" (even when it doesn't exist in real life -- as witness
my own case and my own ketubbah!)

Among the ultra-orthodox the nadan and related sums of money were and
are very much a part of the tena'im (literally "conditions") of a
marriage. To this day the Tena'im constitute a separate, collateral
contract made in conjunction with the marriage and formally signed
in a separate ceremony at the "hoson's tisch" ("bridegroom's table")
immediately before the marriage ceremony itself.

Judith Romney Wegner


Re: given name Abba #general

Joanne Saltman <js24saltman@...>
 

Our great grandfather Chaskel Gorinshtejn >from Kremenets, Ukraine
(registered in Berestechko) had a brother Aba. We believe he was named for
his uncle Avraham-Aba Gorenstejn. The revision lists also show another Aba
Horenstein in Radomysl who died in 1848-could be a grandfather they were
named for. Only times I have seen this name. Abraham is a family name that
often appears.
Joanne Saltman
Belchertown, MA


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Understanding Arranged Marriages #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

My great grandparents met on the day of their wedding engagement party,
sometime in the 1870s, in Poland. Does anyone know if this practice was
widespread in Poland, during the 19th century? Or in the 19th century did most
Polish couples get to choose their future mates?

Were there Jewish dowries'?

Were Jewish spouses usually distant cousins? Or were they selected
for financial reason?
Dear Terri,

Just >from doing the genealogy of my own 19th century Anglo-Jewish
ancestors named Marks and Collins, I learned that cousin marriages
(not necessarily distant cousins -- it was frequently first
cousins!) were rampant in my family. Marks/Collins and
Collins/Collins marriages run into dozens. As my ancestors were
mostly not at all wealthy, financial reasons had little to do with it.

Most brides and grooms in those marriages would have known each other
from childhood, so they would not be meeting for the first time at
the "engagement" party. (That is an ultra-orthodox practice in some
circles. But it is logical to assume that most cousin marriages
must have been, if not exactly "arranged", then at least actively
encouraged by the parents. However, bear in mind that arranged
marriages were common in the dominant surrounding culture until at
least 1900 -- even among people who were not related by blood.
Before World War One, as any student of history knows, young people
(especially girls) simply did not have the freedom to walk around
unchaperoned and meet young men without the knowledge of their
parents. Everything changed after 1914. In this respect, I don't
think Jews differed much >from other 19th-century groups among whom
arranged marriages were a standard practice, which often did involve
the transfer of money in marriage settlements; and young people in
general (but especially girls) had very little choice in the matter
of selecting a spouse -- whether in England, Poland, or anywhere
else.

As for dowries, my own ancestors (Anglo-Dutch Jews who had lived in
London since about 1800) followed varying degrees of Jewish
observance in matters like kashrut and Shabbat, but certainly did not
follow a traditional lifestyle in the East European sense; and as I
said, most of them had little money. So for both of those reasons I
don't think "dowries" were a big issue with them! However, in the
formal, legal sense of the wording and signing of relevant documents,
dowries were and are a feature of Jewish law and custom, and the
dowry (nadan) is even mentioned in a standard Aramaic formula that
forms part of the ketubbah: " shtar ketubta da nedunya dan
vetosefta da" (even when it doesn't exist in real life -- as witness
my own case and my own ketubbah!)

Among the ultra-orthodox the nadan and related sums of money were and
are very much a part of the tena'im (literally "conditions") of a
marriage. To this day the Tena'im constitute a separate, collateral
contract made in conjunction with the marriage and formally signed
in a separate ceremony at the "hoson's tisch" ("bridegroom's table")
immediately before the marriage ceremony itself.

Judith Romney Wegner


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen RE: given name Abba #general

Joanne Saltman <js24saltman@...>
 

Our great grandfather Chaskel Gorinshtejn >from Kremenets, Ukraine
(registered in Berestechko) had a brother Aba. We believe he was named for
his uncle Avraham-Aba Gorenstejn. The revision lists also show another Aba
Horenstein in Radomysl who died in 1848-could be a grandfather they were
named for. Only times I have seen this name. Abraham is a family name that
often appears.
Joanne Saltman
Belchertown, MA


Searching For Descendants Of Two Sisters, Viewmate 5417 & 5418 #general

Rachelle <rlberliner@...>
 

I'm still trying to find my aunts.
Surnames before marriage - LIEBERMAN/LIFSCHITZ/LEV/LOEW/LEAF/AIN

To my knowledge, our family was >from Swislowitz, Russia - now Swisloch,
Belarus, Volkyvysk, Grodno Gubernia and possibly Odessa, Ukraine.

My dad, Samuel Isaiah LEAF, came to the U.S. in 1906. The passenger list
showed his name to be Schaie LIEBERMAN. I was able to find him on the EIDB
as I had acquired his Declaration of Intention and that gave me the name of
the ship and the date of arrival. Searching for passengers >from Swislowitz
and knowing his Hebrew name to be Shmuel Yishaiah, I was able to find him.
One brother, Max, came in as Mendel LOEW with an umlat over the "o". The 3d
brother, whose arrival I've not yet found on EIDB or anywhere, was Morris
LIEBERMAN and known as Moshe. Uncle Morris never changed his name to LEAF. A
cousin who was originally a LIFSCHITZ or LEV >from Odessa, we believe, was
the sponsor of my dad and Uncle Max. She had adopted the surname LEAF.
(Finding original surnames is yet another project for my mom's JACOBS
family.)

Nevertheless, my reason for writing is that my dad had 2 sisters who refused
to leave Russia. They were in the medical profession and chose to stay with
my grandparents, Alter Neome AIN and Shimshon LIEBERMAN. (Since my dad used
this surname, I will stick with it for our LEAF family.) I am aware of the
murder of Jewish physicians by Stalin and am researching that, looking for
names of female doctors.

As was the case during the 30s, 40s, and 50s, Jews fled to areas where they
felt they could be safe and that is why I'm searching everywhere. This
includes shtetls and gubernias that are posted on Litvak Digest.

Sadly, I do not know the given names of either aunt. Also unknown is if they
married and their descendants are alive - somewhere. I am posting
photographs to Viewmate. One is a picture of my grandparents and one
daughter. The other is the other daughter.

Perhaps someone knows of a family who carries either or both of these
photos.

Please contact me privately.
Thank you in advance for any and all assistance and/or suggestions.

To view the pictures, http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/toview.html

They are numbers 5417 and 5418.

Sincerely,

Rachelle Leaf Berliner
Savannah, GA
rlberliner@comcast.net

Searching:

LIEBERMAN/LEOW(Shimshon,)patronymic-LEAF and AIN(Alter Neome/Nechamah)/ >from
Szvistrich/Swislowitz/Swisloch, Bialystok, Russia to NY to Savannah),
Joseph Osher LEV/LEAF/LIFSCHITZ/LOEW(V) or LIEBERMAN (Odessa Region)


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Searching For Descendants Of Two Sisters, Viewmate 5417 & 5418 #general

Rachelle <rlberliner@...>
 

I'm still trying to find my aunts.
Surnames before marriage - LIEBERMAN/LIFSCHITZ/LEV/LOEW/LEAF/AIN

To my knowledge, our family was >from Swislowitz, Russia - now Swisloch,
Belarus, Volkyvysk, Grodno Gubernia and possibly Odessa, Ukraine.

My dad, Samuel Isaiah LEAF, came to the U.S. in 1906. The passenger list
showed his name to be Schaie LIEBERMAN. I was able to find him on the EIDB
as I had acquired his Declaration of Intention and that gave me the name of
the ship and the date of arrival. Searching for passengers >from Swislowitz
and knowing his Hebrew name to be Shmuel Yishaiah, I was able to find him.
One brother, Max, came in as Mendel LOEW with an umlat over the "o". The 3d
brother, whose arrival I've not yet found on EIDB or anywhere, was Morris
LIEBERMAN and known as Moshe. Uncle Morris never changed his name to LEAF. A
cousin who was originally a LIFSCHITZ or LEV >from Odessa, we believe, was
the sponsor of my dad and Uncle Max. She had adopted the surname LEAF.
(Finding original surnames is yet another project for my mom's JACOBS
family.)

Nevertheless, my reason for writing is that my dad had 2 sisters who refused
to leave Russia. They were in the medical profession and chose to stay with
my grandparents, Alter Neome AIN and Shimshon LIEBERMAN. (Since my dad used
this surname, I will stick with it for our LEAF family.) I am aware of the
murder of Jewish physicians by Stalin and am researching that, looking for
names of female doctors.

As was the case during the 30s, 40s, and 50s, Jews fled to areas where they
felt they could be safe and that is why I'm searching everywhere. This
includes shtetls and gubernias that are posted on Litvak Digest.

Sadly, I do not know the given names of either aunt. Also unknown is if they
married and their descendants are alive - somewhere. I am posting
photographs to Viewmate. One is a picture of my grandparents and one
daughter. The other is the other daughter.

Perhaps someone knows of a family who carries either or both of these
photos.

Please contact me privately.
Thank you in advance for any and all assistance and/or suggestions.

To view the pictures, http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/toview.html

They are numbers 5417 and 5418.

Sincerely,

Rachelle Leaf Berliner
Savannah, GA
rlberliner@comcast.net

Searching:

LIEBERMAN/LEOW(Shimshon,)patronymic-LEAF and AIN(Alter Neome/Nechamah)/ >from
Szvistrich/Swislowitz/Swisloch, Bialystok, Russia to NY to Savannah),
Joseph Osher LEV/LEAF/LIFSCHITZ/LOEW(V) or LIEBERMAN (Odessa Region)


Re: arranged marriages #galicia

Irene Newhouse <einew@...>
 

I would dare say, based on my admittedly unsystematic reading, that arranged
marriages have historically been the rule. I would say that until recently,
the needs of the individual have been considered to be far less important
than the needs of the family or community. For this reason, marriages were
considered too important to be left up to the vagaries of individuals.

As far as I know, it was universally true in the 19th century that the
majority of Jewish marriages were arranged. Dowries were typical,
definitely. The idea was that the husband invest the dowry so that if he
should happen to pre-decease his wife, she could use this fund to live on.

This has been thoroughly researched for German Jews by Marion Kaplan, in the
book on the Jewish middle class in Germany: The Making of the Jewish Middle
Class Women, Family, and Identity in Imperial Germany, ISBN 0195093968,
paper. The hardcover version of the book can be found in a great many
college & university libraries. In this book, she points out that even in
pre-WWI Germany, in which time the idea of marrying for love was adopted by
assimilated German Jews, what appeared to be love matches had actually been
arranged to a certain extent. This would have been done via parental
control of the young men young women were permitted to meet. Parents would
arrange social events, even dancing classes, at which the attendees were
selected with great care. For instance, as a young attorney, my grandfather
was working through one of the intern-like phases of his training, Assessor,
under an established attorney who was greatly impressed with his ability.
Therefore, he recommended that his wife include my grandfather in the
dancing class she was arranging for their daughter. In this class, he met
my grandmother. Their marriage repeated a tendency discernible in that line
of the family for much of the previous 100 years: daughter of the
established branch of the family marries up & coming newcomer to Breslau.
In general, the parental expectations for their sons-in-law were *not*
disappointed. My grandfather not only managed to find employment during the
mega-inflation following WWI, he had the foresight to emigrate in 1936,
thereby saving himself, his wife & family. He also managed to work his way
back into the upper middle class after emigration....

No, marriages were *NOT* always between cousins. There has long been a
recognition of the fact that if a family becomes too inbred, eventually the
children will not be healthy, in spite of the fact that understanding of the
reasons behind this observation is recent. However, if there were good
relations between a set of inlaws, other marriages would be arranged between
family members. Thus, I have a set of "honorary cousins", also >from
Breslau. We haven't found any shared ancestors yet, altough we do have
nearly all of them back to at least 1800 among us. BUT there have been
something like 6 instances in which mutual cousins have married.

Also, probably given the status of Jews as outsiders in gentile society,
there was a strong preference toward interacting with family socially & in
other ways. The same grandmother I mentioned above attended a private
girls' high school in Breslau, as did her sister. My researches have made
it apparent that the ladies who ran this school are probably distant
cousins, though I've not been able to determine how. Another cousin made me
the gift of a table cloth her normally unsentimental mother treasured. This
cousin knew that the woman who gave it to her mother was her mother's best
friend, never married. She asked me to research who this woman was, when
she gave me the table cloth. I learned to our mutual astonishment that her
mother's best friend was also her mother's 4th cousin. My cousin thinks it
entirely possible her mother actually knew this, and never bothered to tell
her.

Irene Newhouse


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen re: arranged marriages #general

Irene Newhouse <einew@...>
 

I would dare say, based on my admittedly unsystematic reading, that arranged
marriages have historically been the rule. I would say that until recently,
the needs of the individual have been considered to be far less important
than the needs of the family or community. For this reason, marriages were
considered too important to be left up to the vagaries of individuals.

As far as I know, it was universally true in the 19th century that the
majority of Jewish marriages were arranged. Dowries were typical,
definitely. The idea was that the husband invest the dowry so that if he
should happen to pre-decease his wife, she could use this fund to live on.

This has been thoroughly researched for German Jews by Marion Kaplan, in the
book on the Jewish middle class in Germany: The Making of the Jewish Middle
Class Women, Family, and Identity in Imperial Germany, ISBN 0195093968,
paper. The hardcover version of the book can be found in a great many
college & university libraries. In this book, she points out that even in
pre-WWI Germany, in which time the idea of marrying for love was adopted by
assimilated German Jews, what appeared to be love matches had actually been
arranged to a certain extent. This would have been done via parental
control of the young men young women were permitted to meet. Parents would
arrange social events, even dancing classes, at which the attendees were
selected with great care. For instance, as a young attorney, my grandfather
was working through one of the intern-like phases of his training, Assessor,
under an established attorney who was greatly impressed with his ability.
Therefore, he recommended that his wife include my grandfather in the
dancing class she was arranging for their daughter. In this class, he met
my grandmother. Their marriage repeated a tendency discernible in that line
of the family for much of the previous 100 years: daughter of the
established branch of the family marries up & coming newcomer to Breslau.
In general, the parental expectations for their sons-in-law were *not*
disappointed. My grandfather not only managed to find employment during the
mega-inflation following WWI, he had the foresight to emigrate in 1936,
thereby saving himself, his wife & family. He also managed to work his way
back into the upper middle class after emigration....

No, marriages were *NOT* always between cousins. There has long been a
recognition of the fact that if a family becomes too inbred, eventually the
children will not be healthy, in spite of the fact that understanding of the
reasons behind this observation is recent. However, if there were good
relations between a set of inlaws, other marriages would be arranged between
family members. Thus, I have a set of "honorary cousins", also >from
Breslau. We haven't found any shared ancestors yet, altough we do have
nearly all of them back to at least 1800 among us. BUT there have been
something like 6 instances in which mutual cousins have married.

Also, probably given the status of Jews as outsiders in gentile society,
there was a strong preference toward interacting with family socially & in
other ways. The same grandmother I mentioned above attended a private
girls' high school in Breslau, as did her sister. My researches have made
it apparent that the ladies who ran this school are probably distant
cousins, though I've not been able to determine how. Another cousin made me
the gift of a table cloth her normally unsentimental mother treasured. This
cousin knew that the woman who gave it to her mother was her mother's best
friend, never married. She asked me to research who this woman was, when
she gave me the table cloth. I learned to our mutual astonishment that her
mother's best friend was also her mother's 4th cousin. My cousin thinks it
entirely possible her mother actually knew this, and never bothered to tell
her.

Irene Newhouse


From Ukraine to Liverpool to Ellis Island #general

Yitz <docdezin@...>
 

I am new at researching how my father came >from Ukraine to Ellis Island.
Does anyone know the cost of steamship tickets >from Liverpool England to
Ellis Island NY back in the early 1900's? Does anyone know how long the trip
took and what people did for food?
What was the most common way of travel >from Ukraine to Liverpool ?
Thank you

Yitzchok Dubovick
Beitar Illit Israel

Researching families :DUBOVICK, SHUSTER,BRILLANT,REIKES
shtetels of: Gorodische, Cherkassy. Bohuslav


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen From Ukraine to Liverpool to Ellis Island #general

Yitz <docdezin@...>
 

I am new at researching how my father came >from Ukraine to Ellis Island.
Does anyone know the cost of steamship tickets >from Liverpool England to
Ellis Island NY back in the early 1900's? Does anyone know how long the trip
took and what people did for food?
What was the most common way of travel >from Ukraine to Liverpool ?
Thank you

Yitzchok Dubovick
Beitar Illit Israel

Researching families :DUBOVICK, SHUSTER,BRILLANT,REIKES
shtetels of: Gorodische, Cherkassy. Bohuslav


Fw: Loking for my family #general

arie meir
 

hi to all of you

It's already more than ten years that I'm looking for my family who
disappeared in world war 2

Here are the details: My grand father Chaim GLASER >from Przemysl Poland his
daughter Debora (Dora) born in 1927. His wife who passed away( as I was told)
before the war was Rachla (maiden name STOLZBERG). They got married in 1926.

Chaim Glaser was married in Vienna to Helena Glaser and had three children
Cilli, Herman, David. He got divorced in the early twenties And moved to
Przemysl where he got married again.

The last time my late mother heard >from them was in 1939.

Enclosed is viewmate of my grandfathe uf some one of the readers have any
information of him or his daughter dvora please contact me. The viewmat is VM5425

Arieh Mayer
Haifa
Israel
P.S. my email is meir1935@netvision.net.il

MODERATOR NOTE: Direct url is:
http://data.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=5425


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Fw: Loking for my family #general

arie meir
 

hi to all of you

It's already more than ten years that I'm looking for my family who
disappeared in world war 2

Here are the details: My grand father Chaim GLASER >from Przemysl Poland his
daughter Debora (Dora) born in 1927. His wife who passed away( as I was told)
before the war was Rachla (maiden name STOLZBERG). They got married in 1926.

Chaim Glaser was married in Vienna to Helena Glaser and had three children
Cilli, Herman, David. He got divorced in the early twenties And moved to
Przemysl where he got married again.

The last time my late mother heard >from them was in 1939.

Enclosed is viewmate of my grandfathe uf some one of the readers have any
information of him or his daughter dvora please contact me. The viewmat is VM5425

Arieh Mayer
Haifa
Israel
P.S. my email is meir1935@netvision.net.il

MODERATOR NOTE: Direct url is:
http://data.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=5425


Gdow records #galicia

bikerick
 

Hi: >from the Yad Vashem records it appears that my Zimmerspitz ancestors
were in Gdow, Poland in the 1860-1870s. The only records >from there on the
Jewish Record Indexing are some post-1900 marriages. The Routes-To-Routes
website did not list any available records >from Gdow, nor does the Family
History Center show any. Does anyone know if there may be vital 19th century
Jewish records >from Gdow or how I might go about determining if there are
such records?

Rick Hyman, California
ZIMMERSPITZ: Chorowice, Skawina, Gdow
HUPERT: Wielke Drogie


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia Gdow records #galicia

bikerick
 

Hi: >from the Yad Vashem records it appears that my Zimmerspitz ancestors
were in Gdow, Poland in the 1860-1870s. The only records >from there on the
Jewish Record Indexing are some post-1900 marriages. The Routes-To-Routes
website did not list any available records >from Gdow, nor does the Family
History Center show any. Does anyone know if there may be vital 19th century
Jewish records >from Gdow or how I might go about determining if there are
such records?

Rick Hyman, California
ZIMMERSPITZ: Chorowice, Skawina, Gdow
HUPERT: Wielke Drogie


Re: Meaning of Name FRIEDMAN #general

Avrohom Krauss <krauss@...>
 

I believe this confusion stems >from the meaning of "Fried" in
German/Yiddish. In Yiddish, "freid' or "freed" means "happy" (eg. tzu
frieden). ("Free man" could be a translation had this name originated as
English name, which it did not). However, if I am not mistaken, in Old
German, "freed" means "peace," and that is said to be the meaning for
"Friedman."

Avrohom Krauss
Telz-Stone Israel

Researching FRIEDMAN (FRYDMAN,FRIDMAN) of Korosten and Zitomir in Ukraine.I
havemaintained that our family name of FRIEDMAN translates to "man of peace".
Others say it means "freed man " or "free man".I would appreciate some
elucidation in this matter. Thank you.
Elmer Friedman


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Meaning of Name FRIEDMAN #general

Avrohom Krauss <krauss@...>
 

I believe this confusion stems >from the meaning of "Fried" in
German/Yiddish. In Yiddish, "freid' or "freed" means "happy" (eg. tzu
frieden). ("Free man" could be a translation had this name originated as
English name, which it did not). However, if I am not mistaken, in Old
German, "freed" means "peace," and that is said to be the meaning for
"Friedman."

Avrohom Krauss
Telz-Stone Israel

Researching FRIEDMAN (FRYDMAN,FRIDMAN) of Korosten and Zitomir in Ukraine.I
havemaintained that our family name of FRIEDMAN translates to "man of peace".
Others say it means "freed man " or "free man".I would appreciate some
elucidation in this matter. Thank you.
Elmer Friedman


Re: Meaning of Name FRIEDMAN #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

Researching FRIEDMAN (FRYDMAN,FRIDMAN) of Korosten and Zitomir in
Ukraine.I have
maintained that our family name of FRIEDMAN translates to "man of
peace". Others
say it means "freed man " or "free man".I would appreciate some elucidation in
this matter. Thank you.
Elmer Friedman
Dear Elmer,

Frieden (pronounced Free-den) is German/ Yiddish for peace. So
by all means go with your own idea, which happens to be the correct
answer!

The German (and Yiddish) word for free is frei, Note three things
about that word:
(1) there's no "d" in it
(2) the "e" and "i" in the word "frei" are in *that* order and not "i e"
(3) German words with e before i are *always* pronounced like the
English word "fry" and *never* like the word "free."

So, please tell your relatives who held the contrary opinion that
there is absolutely no connection between the name Fried and the
German word "frei."

This mistake arose because of a common American misconception that
German words spelled with "IE" are pronounced like the English
pronoun "I", while those spelled with "EI" are pronounced "EE." In
fact, the exact reverse is the case! Your relatives may have
wrongly assumed that the German adjective "frei" -- which means
"free" but is pronounced "fry" -- was actually pronounced free --
and therefore, they assumed that the word "frei" must have some
connection with the name Friedman (Frydman, Fridman But in fact, the
German word "frei" meaning "free" has nothing whatsoever to do with
the German word Frieden (pronounced freeden), meaning "peace."

Judith Romney Wegner


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Meaning of Name FRIEDMAN #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

Researching FRIEDMAN (FRYDMAN,FRIDMAN) of Korosten and Zitomir in
Ukraine.I have
maintained that our family name of FRIEDMAN translates to "man of
peace". Others
say it means "freed man " or "free man".I would appreciate some elucidation in
this matter. Thank you.
Elmer Friedman
Dear Elmer,

Frieden (pronounced Free-den) is German/ Yiddish for peace. So
by all means go with your own idea, which happens to be the correct
answer!

The German (and Yiddish) word for free is frei, Note three things
about that word:
(1) there's no "d" in it
(2) the "e" and "i" in the word "frei" are in *that* order and not "i e"
(3) German words with e before i are *always* pronounced like the
English word "fry" and *never* like the word "free."

So, please tell your relatives who held the contrary opinion that
there is absolutely no connection between the name Fried and the
German word "frei."

This mistake arose because of a common American misconception that
German words spelled with "IE" are pronounced like the English
pronoun "I", while those spelled with "EI" are pronounced "EE." In
fact, the exact reverse is the case! Your relatives may have
wrongly assumed that the German adjective "frei" -- which means
"free" but is pronounced "fry" -- was actually pronounced free --
and therefore, they assumed that the word "frei" must have some
connection with the name Friedman (Frydman, Fridman But in fact, the
German word "frei" meaning "free" has nothing whatsoever to do with
the German word Frieden (pronounced freeden), meaning "peace."

Judith Romney Wegner