Date   

Re: Tracing a Kohen (with note on Nebenzahls and genetics) #general

Candice Bradley and Daniel Byrne <djbyrne@...>
 

In response to Stan Goodman's comment, "If a man is a Kohen, his sons, all
of them are also Kohanim. There are no other rules for the transmission. It
moves in the paternal line only, never in the maternal."

I also believed this, but I'm not so sure any more. A Galicia researcher
on this list and I have a common family name (Nebenzahl) which supposedly
is a single family. Although the male Nebenzahls of my family essentially
"daughtered out," the Nebenzahl men in my line were Kohanim. However,
this researcher told me that the Nebenzahls in Galicia were not Kohanim,
and explained that he found in his research evidence of some matrilineal
transmission which might explain why my Nebenzahls are Kohanim. His
argument is interesting food for thought.

In anthropological studies of kinship (I am an anthropologist) we see that
matrilineal descent does not mean "matriarchy," but rather reckoning of
descent through male relatives related through the uterine line (in other
words, men related to one another through mothers). In Swaziland, for
example, the male kingship is inherited matrilineally; a man sits on the
throne and his mother sits behind him. This is how matrilineality
commonly works.

I hope this Galicia researcher who knows about the Nebenzahl line and the
Kohan claim of my ancestors also responds to your note, although I believe
he is now in the middle of a cross-country move.

In the meantime, I read an interesting scientific article online recently
(can't remember where, although I think it was linked on a Sephardic
website) that talked about the genetics of being a Kohan. Apparently this
inherited priestly cast originated before the Sephardic Ashkenazi split.

I have no stake in either argument (for or against some matrilineal
transmission of Kohans) and am not taking a stand. However, one of the
truisms of human social life is that all cultures have rules and
traditions, and in every culture those rules and traditions are broken,
twisted and circumvented. How the rules are broken and twisted is also
part of the culture.

Candice Bradley
Appleton WI


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Tracing a Kohen (with note on Nebenzahls and genetics) #general

Candice Bradley and Daniel Byrne <djbyrne@...>
 

In response to Stan Goodman's comment, "If a man is a Kohen, his sons, all
of them are also Kohanim. There are no other rules for the transmission. It
moves in the paternal line only, never in the maternal."

I also believed this, but I'm not so sure any more. A Galicia researcher
on this list and I have a common family name (Nebenzahl) which supposedly
is a single family. Although the male Nebenzahls of my family essentially
"daughtered out," the Nebenzahl men in my line were Kohanim. However,
this researcher told me that the Nebenzahls in Galicia were not Kohanim,
and explained that he found in his research evidence of some matrilineal
transmission which might explain why my Nebenzahls are Kohanim. His
argument is interesting food for thought.

In anthropological studies of kinship (I am an anthropologist) we see that
matrilineal descent does not mean "matriarchy," but rather reckoning of
descent through male relatives related through the uterine line (in other
words, men related to one another through mothers). In Swaziland, for
example, the male kingship is inherited matrilineally; a man sits on the
throne and his mother sits behind him. This is how matrilineality
commonly works.

I hope this Galicia researcher who knows about the Nebenzahl line and the
Kohan claim of my ancestors also responds to your note, although I believe
he is now in the middle of a cross-country move.

In the meantime, I read an interesting scientific article online recently
(can't remember where, although I think it was linked on a Sephardic
website) that talked about the genetics of being a Kohan. Apparently this
inherited priestly cast originated before the Sephardic Ashkenazi split.

I have no stake in either argument (for or against some matrilineal
transmission of Kohans) and am not taking a stand. However, one of the
truisms of human social life is that all cultures have rules and
traditions, and in every culture those rules and traditions are broken,
twisted and circumvented. How the rules are broken and twisted is also
part of the culture.

Candice Bradley
Appleton WI


Jewish Orphanages Website - Update #general

MSpearssol@...
 

The 1900 Federal Census of the Brooklyn Hebrew Orphan Asylum has
been added to our website with 300 children's names and dates of
birth listed. Anyone wanting any other indiviual information on
any particular child as to parent's birthplace may email me at NOHalumni@...

Also added are 33 Children's Death Certificates with genealogical information for orphans and foundlings >from NYC area orphanages
and hospitals. The years of death range >from 1882 to 1901 and
these children are buried in some of the free burial plots at
various Jewish Cemeteries in the NY area. This information may
be seen on the Federal and State Census Page

On the Jewish Orphanages in the US Page, the city of Oakland, CA
has been added and also more information added to the San Francisco
and Fort Wayne, IN Jewish orphanages. There are now 49 cities
identified in 23 states and over 100 Jewish Orphanages listed
with historical and archival information.

AND.....80 new URL links for Jewish Genealogy and Other Resources
have also been added for researching, which now totals over 500
links to thousands of sites on the Internet >from our website.

Our web site may be accessed at http://www.scruz.net/~elias/hnoh

Marge Spears-Soloff
Orlando, FL
MSpearssol@...
HNOHalumni@...
http://www.scruz.net/~elias/hnoh


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Jewish Orphanages Website - Update #general

MSpearssol@...
 

The 1900 Federal Census of the Brooklyn Hebrew Orphan Asylum has
been added to our website with 300 children's names and dates of
birth listed. Anyone wanting any other indiviual information on
any particular child as to parent's birthplace may email me at NOHalumni@...

Also added are 33 Children's Death Certificates with genealogical information for orphans and foundlings >from NYC area orphanages
and hospitals. The years of death range >from 1882 to 1901 and
these children are buried in some of the free burial plots at
various Jewish Cemeteries in the NY area. This information may
be seen on the Federal and State Census Page

On the Jewish Orphanages in the US Page, the city of Oakland, CA
has been added and also more information added to the San Francisco
and Fort Wayne, IN Jewish orphanages. There are now 49 cities
identified in 23 states and over 100 Jewish Orphanages listed
with historical and archival information.

AND.....80 new URL links for Jewish Genealogy and Other Resources
have also been added for researching, which now totals over 500
links to thousands of sites on the Internet >from our website.

Our web site may be accessed at http://www.scruz.net/~elias/hnoh

Marge Spears-Soloff
Orlando, FL
MSpearssol@...
HNOHalumni@...
http://www.scruz.net/~elias/hnoh


Re: Two Cemeteries in Olka #hungary

PARC313@...
 

In a message dated 9/7/98 6:05:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time, melody@... writes:

<< just returned >from a visit to eastern Slovakia, mainly in and around
Stropkov. I stayed at the local hotel (no hot water, but a sizeable
discount) for five days, travelling around to small villages -- all the
ones that I had ever wanted to see -- Okruhle, Medzilaborce, Havaj,
Bardiov, Bardiov Kupele (of the famed "rusty water"), Mikova, Chotca,

It was deep in the woods, far beyond the fields, on a very steep hill.
The gravestones were nearly inaccessible because of the slope. Many had
succumbed to gravity; many had been displaced by tall trees. Although
isolated and neglected, this cemetery was uncommonly beautiful and
peaceful. I would choose to spend eternity here.

On the walk back, with darkness approaching, we heard a train somewhere,
whistling forlornly into the night. How easy it was to imagine the trains
that had carried Jews to the camps. Then, like now, trains passed by tiny
hamlets scattered throughout the green meadows of rural Slovakia, hardly
noticed, hardly heard.

Melody Amsel Gross >>

Dear Melody:

I was so touched by your account of your visit to Slovakia, I just had to tell
you how it made me feel. Thank you for such a moving account of your trip.

Sincerely,
Phyllis Auspitz Cohen
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA

Searching: AUSPITZ, ZELKOWITZ, GROSNOFF


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Two Cemeteries in Olka #hungary

PARC313@...
 

In a message dated 9/7/98 6:05:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time, melody@... writes:

<< just returned >from a visit to eastern Slovakia, mainly in and around
Stropkov. I stayed at the local hotel (no hot water, but a sizeable
discount) for five days, travelling around to small villages -- all the
ones that I had ever wanted to see -- Okruhle, Medzilaborce, Havaj,
Bardiov, Bardiov Kupele (of the famed "rusty water"), Mikova, Chotca,

It was deep in the woods, far beyond the fields, on a very steep hill.
The gravestones were nearly inaccessible because of the slope. Many had
succumbed to gravity; many had been displaced by tall trees. Although
isolated and neglected, this cemetery was uncommonly beautiful and
peaceful. I would choose to spend eternity here.

On the walk back, with darkness approaching, we heard a train somewhere,
whistling forlornly into the night. How easy it was to imagine the trains
that had carried Jews to the camps. Then, like now, trains passed by tiny
hamlets scattered throughout the green meadows of rural Slovakia, hardly
noticed, hardly heard.

Melody Amsel Gross >>

Dear Melody:

I was so touched by your account of your visit to Slovakia, I just had to tell
you how it made me feel. Thank you for such a moving account of your trip.

Sincerely,
Phyllis Auspitz Cohen
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA

Searching: AUSPITZ, ZELKOWITZ, GROSNOFF


LDS help #hungary

Georges.Graner@...
 

Dear H-Sig friends,
It is not too easy to look for one's hungarian ancestors >from France,
since there are very few "colleagues" here. Nevertheless, I made many
discoveries through the Mormons' files which are rather easily accessible
in several places.
In your messages, I read often a reference to LDS files. Could somebody
tell me what are these files and where they can be found? Do they come
in microfilms or are they computerized? Can they be borrowed or should they
be bought? Is this possible to read them in special places like the Mormon
files? Do you know of any center of this kind in France?

And, an important question: do the LDS files cover the same material as
the Mormon files and if not, what are the differences?

Thanks,

Georges GRANER
___________________________________________________________
| Mail : Georges.GRANER@... |
|_________________________________________________________|


Hungary SIG #Hungary LDS help #hungary

Georges.Graner@...
 

Dear H-Sig friends,
It is not too easy to look for one's hungarian ancestors >from France,
since there are very few "colleagues" here. Nevertheless, I made many
discoveries through the Mormons' files which are rather easily accessible
in several places.
In your messages, I read often a reference to LDS files. Could somebody
tell me what are these files and where they can be found? Do they come
in microfilms or are they computerized? Can they be borrowed or should they
be bought? Is this possible to read them in special places like the Mormon
files? Do you know of any center of this kind in France?

And, an important question: do the LDS files cover the same material as
the Mormon files and if not, what are the differences?

Thanks,

Georges GRANER
___________________________________________________________
| Mail : Georges.GRANER@... |
|_________________________________________________________|


Names from #hungary

Vivian Kahn
 

--============_-1306972857==_ma============
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Following is a list of names that appear in Robert Perlman's Bridging Three
Worlds. Not all of these names are included in the index. Please contact me
by e-mail if you would like more info.

Vivian Kahn, Oakland, CA
vkahn@...
Amsel, Maurice 12-15
Baal Shem Tov 75
Berger, Victor 214
Bettelheim, Rabbi aaron 58, 94, 190-91
Black, Joseph 87, 165
Black, Morris and family 99, 102-4, 208
Butcher (Butler?), Sam 88
Chorin, Rabbi Aaron 57
Drachman, Rabbi Bernard, 227-28
Edlis, Adolph 209
Elsner, Leopold 87
Eotvos, Joseph 40
Eotvos, Karoly 33
Fleischmann, Charles L. 91
Fried, Getzel 131-2
Gerster, Arpad 171
Greenwald, Leopold 75-77
Grosner, Joseph 91
Heilprin, Michael 98-102
Holitser, Louis 157
Horowitz, Osher 118
Huebsch, Rabbi Adolph 189
Kaczer, Illes 5-6, 43
Kann, Robert A. 37-39
Karady, Victor 31, 34
Katzburg, Nathaniel 26, 29-30
Kiss, Jozsef 42
Klein, Rabbi Philip 195-96
Knefler (Knoepfler), Frederick 87
Kohanyi, Tihamer 165, 167, 172
Kohut, Rabbi Alexander 58, 192-3
Kohut, Rebekah 67, 194
Korn, Bertram 86
Korn, Philip 85-6
Korosy, Jozsef 72
Kovacs, Alajos 45, 253-54
Lebowitz, Pepi and Meyer 155
Lederer, Gideon R. 95
Loew, Rabbi Leopold 57, 173
Loth, Joseph 91
Loveman, Bernard 104-108
Lowy, Endre and Aranka 72-73
Lulley, Emanuel 92-93
Mendlowitz, Rabbi Shraga 196
Molnar, Ferenc 43
Morawska, Eva 50
Patai, Joseph 63
Pollack, Esti 65
Pulitzer, Joseph 91
Raphall, Rabbi Morris Jacob 99
Rich, Morris 8 107
Rich, William 95-6, 107
Richter, Morris 90
Scheiber, Alexander 68
Schlesinger, Louis 86-7
Schwartz, Joe (Yosef Schwindler) 156-7
Singer, Sigmund and Victor 125
Sofer, Rabbi Moses (Hatam) 57, 62
Sonneschein, Rabbi Solomon H. 93, 190
Spitzer, Benjamin 83
Steiner, Edward A. 52, 186, 124, 126
Strasser, Adolph 212
Szold, Rabbi Benjamin 86, 94, 100, 192, 194
Szold, Henrietta 194
Taub, Rabbi Eizik the Kalever 59
Teitelbaum, Rabbi Moses 59
Tuska, Rabbi Mordecai and Simon 94 Ujvari, Peter (Pinchas Judah Groszman
43-44
Weinberger, Rabbi Moses 132, 188, 200


Hungary SIG #Hungary Names from #hungary

Vivian Kahn
 

--============_-1306972857==_ma============
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Following is a list of names that appear in Robert Perlman's Bridging Three
Worlds. Not all of these names are included in the index. Please contact me
by e-mail if you would like more info.

Vivian Kahn, Oakland, CA
vkahn@...
Amsel, Maurice 12-15
Baal Shem Tov 75
Berger, Victor 214
Bettelheim, Rabbi aaron 58, 94, 190-91
Black, Joseph 87, 165
Black, Morris and family 99, 102-4, 208
Butcher (Butler?), Sam 88
Chorin, Rabbi Aaron 57
Drachman, Rabbi Bernard, 227-28
Edlis, Adolph 209
Elsner, Leopold 87
Eotvos, Joseph 40
Eotvos, Karoly 33
Fleischmann, Charles L. 91
Fried, Getzel 131-2
Gerster, Arpad 171
Greenwald, Leopold 75-77
Grosner, Joseph 91
Heilprin, Michael 98-102
Holitser, Louis 157
Horowitz, Osher 118
Huebsch, Rabbi Adolph 189
Kaczer, Illes 5-6, 43
Kann, Robert A. 37-39
Karady, Victor 31, 34
Katzburg, Nathaniel 26, 29-30
Kiss, Jozsef 42
Klein, Rabbi Philip 195-96
Knefler (Knoepfler), Frederick 87
Kohanyi, Tihamer 165, 167, 172
Kohut, Rabbi Alexander 58, 192-3
Kohut, Rebekah 67, 194
Korn, Bertram 86
Korn, Philip 85-6
Korosy, Jozsef 72
Kovacs, Alajos 45, 253-54
Lebowitz, Pepi and Meyer 155
Lederer, Gideon R. 95
Loew, Rabbi Leopold 57, 173
Loth, Joseph 91
Loveman, Bernard 104-108
Lowy, Endre and Aranka 72-73
Lulley, Emanuel 92-93
Mendlowitz, Rabbi Shraga 196
Molnar, Ferenc 43
Morawska, Eva 50
Patai, Joseph 63
Pollack, Esti 65
Pulitzer, Joseph 91
Raphall, Rabbi Morris Jacob 99
Rich, Morris 8 107
Rich, William 95-6, 107
Richter, Morris 90
Scheiber, Alexander 68
Schlesinger, Louis 86-7
Schwartz, Joe (Yosef Schwindler) 156-7
Singer, Sigmund and Victor 125
Sofer, Rabbi Moses (Hatam) 57, 62
Sonneschein, Rabbi Solomon H. 93, 190
Spitzer, Benjamin 83
Steiner, Edward A. 52, 186, 124, 126
Strasser, Adolph 212
Szold, Rabbi Benjamin 86, 94, 100, 192, 194
Szold, Henrietta 194
Taub, Rabbi Eizik the Kalever 59
Teitelbaum, Rabbi Moses 59
Tuska, Rabbi Mordecai and Simon 94 Ujvari, Peter (Pinchas Judah Groszman
43-44
Weinberger, Rabbi Moses 132, 188, 200


1928 Zemplen Census #hungary

melody gross <melody@...>
 

If anyone has access to the 1928 Census for Zemplen, could you please check
if any people >from Stropkov appear? Do I understand correctly that this
census is a landowner's census, for tax purposes? So that means that any
other Jews in the town would be renting? Yes? Or, as they say in
Slovakian, he?

Sorry, just returned and couldn't resist!



Melody Amsel Gross in sunny Beersheva, Israel
melody@...
searching: AMSEL/Stropkov, Olka, Vraanov,
Michalovce, Humenne, and anywhere
BAUM/Stropkov, Okruhle
LANDAU/Humenne, Ladimirova
RITTER/Stropkov, Chotca
SCHWARTZ,SCHONFELD/Stropkov
ZAZULIA,BECKER,POLLACK,MORGENSTERN/
Navastelitza, Chotin, Klishkovitz


Hungary SIG #Hungary 1928 Zemplen Census #hungary

melody gross <melody@...>
 

If anyone has access to the 1928 Census for Zemplen, could you please check
if any people >from Stropkov appear? Do I understand correctly that this
census is a landowner's census, for tax purposes? So that means that any
other Jews in the town would be renting? Yes? Or, as they say in
Slovakian, he?

Sorry, just returned and couldn't resist!



Melody Amsel Gross in sunny Beersheva, Israel
melody@...
searching: AMSEL/Stropkov, Olka, Vraanov,
Michalovce, Humenne, and anywhere
BAUM/Stropkov, Okruhle
LANDAU/Humenne, Ladimirova
RITTER/Stropkov, Chotca
SCHWARTZ,SCHONFELD/Stropkov
ZAZULIA,BECKER,POLLACK,MORGENSTERN/
Navastelitza, Chotin, Klishkovitz


Phone directories on the Web #hungary

Margarita <uzidog@...>
 

There is a Web Page that has an index to almost all of the on-line telephone
directories. It also has links to e-mail directories and an interesting link
to Place Names.

http://www.contractjobs.com/tel/



Margarita Lackó
Belgrano
uzidog@...


Obituaries? #general

David Zeit <davezeit@...>
 

I am new hers so if this is out of line, sorry. I want to get copies of
obits for my grandfather, grandmother and my grandfather's 2nd wife. I
know place of death and approximate times. Is there anyone here who
could help? I'd need some one in or near Miami, Cleveland, and
Steubenville. PLease E me if you can help or suggest other sources. I'm
not sure it's safe to share too much personal information on the web
itself.

Thank you so much,

David Zeit


Hungary SIG #Hungary Phone directories on the Web #hungary

Margarita <uzidog@...>
 

There is a Web Page that has an index to almost all of the on-line telephone
directories. It also has links to e-mail directories and an interesting link
to Place Names.

http://www.contractjobs.com/tel/



Margarita Lackó
Belgrano
uzidog@...


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Obituaries? #general

David Zeit <davezeit@...>
 

I am new hers so if this is out of line, sorry. I want to get copies of
obits for my grandfather, grandmother and my grandfather's 2nd wife. I
know place of death and approximate times. Is there anyone here who
could help? I'd need some one in or near Miami, Cleveland, and
Steubenville. PLease E me if you can help or suggest other sources. I'm
not sure it's safe to share too much personal information on the web
itself.

Thank you so much,

David Zeit


Toth Kajnya Records #hungary

Vivian Kahn
 

On 9/6/98, you wrote ....


Subject: Tot Kajna/Sloveska Kajna
From: "Marc B. Weiss" <marcplot@...>
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 13:32:44 -0400
X-Message-Number: 3

Can any one help me determine, for the Tot Kajna in old Hungary, Zemplen,=

now Sloveska Kajna in Slovakia:

1) What rolls of LDS film contain the recods for the 1848 Census, the 186=
9
Census,, vital records of any period.

2) What office in Slovakia would now house vital records covering 19th
century, 20th century.

Thanks.
Marc Weiss

The entry in the LDS catalog for the 1848 Census does not include Zemplen.
The LDS did film the 1869 Census >from Toth Kajnya (Slovenska Kajna). This
info is on Film #0720012. 19th Century vital records would probably be in
the Presov archive. Address is

Statny oblastny archiv v Presove
088 06 Presov-Nizna Sebastova
Slanska ul. c. 33
Slovak Republic

vivian Kahn
vkahn@...


Hungary SIG #Hungary Toth Kajnya Records #hungary

Vivian Kahn
 

On 9/6/98, you wrote ....


Subject: Tot Kajna/Sloveska Kajna
From: "Marc B. Weiss" <marcplot@...>
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 13:32:44 -0400
X-Message-Number: 3

Can any one help me determine, for the Tot Kajna in old Hungary, Zemplen,=

now Sloveska Kajna in Slovakia:

1) What rolls of LDS film contain the recods for the 1848 Census, the 186=
9
Census,, vital records of any period.

2) What office in Slovakia would now house vital records covering 19th
century, 20th century.

Thanks.
Marc Weiss

The entry in the LDS catalog for the 1848 Census does not include Zemplen.
The LDS did film the 1869 Census >from Toth Kajnya (Slovenska Kajna). This
info is on Film #0720012. 19th Century vital records would probably be in
the Presov archive. Address is

Statny oblastny archiv v Presove
088 06 Presov-Nizna Sebastova
Slanska ul. c. 33
Slovak Republic

vivian Kahn
vkahn@...


Immigration regulations #hungary

e. donath <edonath@...>
 

During the time when Eisenhower was president would it have been
possible for a former member of the Nazi Party to have come to the
United States? Would his wife being Jewish have any bearing on it?
Genealogy does lead one down strange alleys!
Thanks for any help.
E. L. Donath


change of e-mail address #hungary

Nathan Rosenshein <nrosen@...>
 

Please note:

Effective immediately - Sunday September 6, 1998, 7:00 a.m., my new
e-mail address is
nrosen@...

Any messages sent since Saturday night to the old address should be
re-transmitted.

The old address is no longer valid. You may not necessarily have your
messages "bounce"
back to you until next week, but I will not receive them. Therefore, use
only the new address.

Regards,

Nathan Rosenshein and Family
5504 Alpine
Cote St. Luc (Montreal)
Canada