Date   

Re: Puzzled about my GGM #hungary

korman3@...
 

I think that death records are the least reliable of all records. Often,
the information is given by a person who is the least distressed and
with the least accurate information at the time of the death. Of a
husband and wife, the spouse who dies first has a much better chance of
having a certificate with the correct information because the other
spouse, who knows the information, is alive and available for
questioning. When the second spouse dies, all bets are off. An in law,
neighbor or grandchild could have provided the information and just got
it all mixed up with other family information.

In my family I have a similar situation. In marriage records >from the
1870s, the mother is listed as Sarlotta Kanitz Back. But when she died
(and she died second) all of a sudden she's Sarlotta Epstein.

So, I'd go with the birth certificate and try to find more corroborating
sources.

Debbi


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Puzzled about my GGM #hungary

korman3@...
 

I think that death records are the least reliable of all records. Often,
the information is given by a person who is the least distressed and
with the least accurate information at the time of the death. Of a
husband and wife, the spouse who dies first has a much better chance of
having a certificate with the correct information because the other
spouse, who knows the information, is alive and available for
questioning. When the second spouse dies, all bets are off. An in law,
neighbor or grandchild could have provided the information and just got
it all mixed up with other family information.

In my family I have a similar situation. In marriage records >from the
1870s, the mother is listed as Sarlotta Kanitz Back. But when she died
(and she died second) all of a sudden she's Sarlotta Epstein.

So, I'd go with the birth certificate and try to find more corroborating
sources.

Debbi


Re: Graz Austria #austria-czech

DWSAnes@...
 

In August, we were in Austria and Germany. At the request of a member of H-
Sig, I sought out information on his family in Graz. In doing so, I learned
that there is a Jewish community in existence in Graz at the sight of the
former Synagogue. It is run by a Doktor Henker (frau). They have computerized
all of the birth, marriage and death records of the Jewish communities in
Styria (Southeastern Austria), There are between 100-150 members of the
Jewish community in Graz. The office is the Israelitische Kultusgemeinde at
58 Grieskai. There is a black obelisk monument on the site of the former
synagogue as well a plaque on the wall of the adjoining building which
currently houses the office. In the offices there is a chapel which is
currently used primarily for the high holy day services. They hope to begin
to construct a new synagogue within the next year on the site of the previous
one. I was given a book entitled "Geschichte der Juden in Sudost-Osterreich
(I have not figured out how to get the umlauts of the two o's). Suffice to
report that there is quite a history of the jews in and about this area of
Austria.

The Austrian part of our trip was in conjunction with the International
Federation of University Women. After leaving Graz we went into Germany and
spent two weeks doing Genalogy research on our families. We had amazing luck
and obtained a wealth of information and made many contacts. This was mostly
in the Frnaconia area of Bavaria as well as Baden Wurttenburg and Hessen.
More about this later should any one be interested.

DWStein DWSAnes@aol.com


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Graz Austria #hungary

DWSAnes@...
 

In August, we were in Austria and Germany. At the request of a member of H-
Sig, I sought out information on his family in Graz. In doing so, I learned
that there is a Jewish community in existence in Graz at the sight of the
former Synagogue. It is run by a Doktor Henker (frau). They have computerized
all of the birth, marriage and death records of the Jewish communities in
Styria (Southeastern Austria), There are between 100-150 members of the
Jewish community in Graz. The office is the Israelitische Kultusgemeinde at
58 Grieskai. There is a black obelisk monument on the site of the former
synagogue as well a plaque on the wall of the adjoining building which
currently houses the office. In the offices there is a chapel which is
currently used primarily for the high holy day services. They hope to begin
to construct a new synagogue within the next year on the site of the previous
one. I was given a book entitled "Geschichte der Juden in Sudost-Osterreich
(I have not figured out how to get the umlauts of the two o's). Suffice to
report that there is quite a history of the jews in and about this area of
Austria.

The Austrian part of our trip was in conjunction with the International
Federation of University Women. After leaving Graz we went into Germany and
spent two weeks doing Genalogy research on our families. We had amazing luck
and obtained a wealth of information and made many contacts. This was mostly
in the Frnaconia area of Bavaria as well as Baden Wurttenburg and Hessen.
More about this later should any one be interested.

DWStein DWSAnes@aol.com


Re: Puzzled about my GGM #hungary

Gzsuzsi@...
 

Ed,

In a message dated 9/30/98 6:43:49 PM, you wrote:

<<Cecilia came to U.S. in 1882. I have her "Anyakonyvi kivonat" (an original,

with her birth date of 1855). This form has her mothers name: Hangyabor

Schwarz. So I thought H. Schwarz was my GGM. The kivonat is dated 1876; is

that significant?

Although I'm not familiar with Hungarian names of the mid 1800s, I have never
heard of the name "Hangyabor". If it exists, it sounds extremely Hungarian
(translated- it means 'antwine'). There is another name of this nature,
Gyongyver - 'pearlblood', but the Jews who used that name, mostly in the
1900s, used the form Gyongyi - no 'blood' word in it.

The way I see it, there may be a mistake in Cecilia's birth year (she may have
been the youngest sister and perhaps by that time your ggfather may have had a
second wife. Or, the the Cecilia whose "Kivonat" you have may not be your
Cecilia.

Susan Geroe


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Puzzled about my GGM #hungary

Gzsuzsi@...
 

Ed,

In a message dated 9/30/98 6:43:49 PM, you wrote:

<<Cecilia came to U.S. in 1882. I have her "Anyakonyvi kivonat" (an original,

with her birth date of 1855). This form has her mothers name: Hangyabor

Schwarz. So I thought H. Schwarz was my GGM. The kivonat is dated 1876; is

that significant?

Although I'm not familiar with Hungarian names of the mid 1800s, I have never
heard of the name "Hangyabor". If it exists, it sounds extremely Hungarian
(translated- it means 'antwine'). There is another name of this nature,
Gyongyver - 'pearlblood', but the Jews who used that name, mostly in the
1900s, used the form Gyongyi - no 'blood' word in it.

The way I see it, there may be a mistake in Cecilia's birth year (she may have
been the youngest sister and perhaps by that time your ggfather may have had a
second wife. Or, the the Cecilia whose "Kivonat" you have may not be your
Cecilia.

Susan Geroe


Re: Puzzled about my GGM #hungary

PGergay@...
 

Dear Ed,
As you probably surmised, the date on the Birth Registry Extract is,
normally, insignificant and irrelevant. The only exception is when it provides
the audit trail for name changes, such as one occuring due to remarriage.
The explanation for a different name for the mother of one of the sisters
(Cecilia) probably lies in a very common error of those times. Usually, the
births were reported by a mid-wife, whose name frequently (and, of course,
mistakenly) was entered as the mother's name. You can very easily determine
now if this was the case---if you need any guidance on how to go about it ,
please contact me privately, through my E-mail (preferrably not until mid-
November).
By the way, I assume that you know that the names Katalin and Katharina
are interchangeable (usually, primarily depending on the nationality of the
Registrar, rather than the names actually given....)
Regards,
Peter A. Gergay
San Francisco, CA


Goldmans of Hungary/Austria Where From ? #hungary

CASHEL3776@...
 

I've been having a problem with the Goldman family >from Austria or is it
Hungary. Half of the census records states Austria, as do some family members
and the rest >from Hungary. Some go back and forth with the place names.

I have David And Emma Stein Goldman and their son, Henry arriving into the US
(New York) in 1887. Because of the time peroid, I have been unable, so far, to
locate a passenger list.
However, David's 19 year old sister, Sadie Goldman, arrives from
Hungary/Austria in 1900 and according to the census record has been in the US
only 3-4 months. The 1900 census has her >from Austria and the 1910 states
she's >from Hungary. At least if the 3-4 months time peroid is accurate, I
should have a better chance of locating a passenger record because I would
onlyhave a 3 months span of ship records to check. I also did not find her on
the soundex cards films.

My question is: Would someone coming >from Austria most likely arrive in the US
from Hamburg. Perhaps if I can locate >from her passenger records the place she
came, it will help me in locating where David and Emma came >from and perhaps
locate both his and her parents.

Thanx,
Ley K. O'Connor


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Puzzled about my GGM #hungary

PGergay@...
 

Dear Ed,
As you probably surmised, the date on the Birth Registry Extract is,
normally, insignificant and irrelevant. The only exception is when it provides
the audit trail for name changes, such as one occuring due to remarriage.
The explanation for a different name for the mother of one of the sisters
(Cecilia) probably lies in a very common error of those times. Usually, the
births were reported by a mid-wife, whose name frequently (and, of course,
mistakenly) was entered as the mother's name. You can very easily determine
now if this was the case---if you need any guidance on how to go about it ,
please contact me privately, through my E-mail (preferrably not until mid-
November).
By the way, I assume that you know that the names Katalin and Katharina
are interchangeable (usually, primarily depending on the nationality of the
Registrar, rather than the names actually given....)
Regards,
Peter A. Gergay
San Francisco, CA


Hungary SIG #Hungary Goldmans of Hungary/Austria Where From ? #hungary

CASHEL3776@...
 

I've been having a problem with the Goldman family >from Austria or is it
Hungary. Half of the census records states Austria, as do some family members
and the rest >from Hungary. Some go back and forth with the place names.

I have David And Emma Stein Goldman and their son, Henry arriving into the US
(New York) in 1887. Because of the time peroid, I have been unable, so far, to
locate a passenger list.
However, David's 19 year old sister, Sadie Goldman, arrives from
Hungary/Austria in 1900 and according to the census record has been in the US
only 3-4 months. The 1900 census has her >from Austria and the 1910 states
she's >from Hungary. At least if the 3-4 months time peroid is accurate, I
should have a better chance of locating a passenger record because I would
onlyhave a 3 months span of ship records to check. I also did not find her on
the soundex cards films.

My question is: Would someone coming >from Austria most likely arrive in the US
from Hamburg. Perhaps if I can locate >from her passenger records the place she
came, it will help me in locating where David and Emma came >from and perhaps
locate both his and her parents.

Thanx,
Ley K. O'Connor


'Jewish' surnames #hungary

MTB <71431.1612@...>
 

To add to George Gaugusch's interesting post:
for Deutschkreutz and vicinity (today's middle Burgenland), almost all Boehm families were Christian, as were many Trebitsch families, and the occasional Blau family.

I think the original point of discussion was not whether some surnames were
typically Jewish, but whether they were exclusively or definitively Jewish.

This H-Sig thread has demonstrated that surnames need genealogical
research, since assumptions are just that.

I know of a couple excellent books on surnames and their sources for the
truly East European Jewries, but I have not seen one for Central Europe.

George's post alone shows how far-ranging such a book would have to be, to
cover the many regional variations of Central and East Central Europe.

Best,
Maureen Tighe-Brown
University of Pittsburgh


Hungary SIG #Hungary 'Jewish' surnames #hungary

MTB <71431.1612@...>
 

To add to George Gaugusch's interesting post:
for Deutschkreutz and vicinity (today's middle Burgenland), almost all Boehm families were Christian, as were many Trebitsch families, and the occasional Blau family.

I think the original point of discussion was not whether some surnames were
typically Jewish, but whether they were exclusively or definitively Jewish.

This H-Sig thread has demonstrated that surnames need genealogical
research, since assumptions are just that.

I know of a couple excellent books on surnames and their sources for the
truly East European Jewries, but I have not seen one for Central Europe.

George's post alone shows how far-ranging such a book would have to be, to
cover the many regional variations of Central and East Central Europe.

Best,
Maureen Tighe-Brown
University of Pittsburgh


Request for Translator - Hebrew #belarus

LOGAN M LOCKABEY <LOGANISJUDD@...>
 

Dear Members:

I just received excerpts >from a Vitebsk document that contain
information on three of my family names; TZADKIN, GREENBLATT,
RABINOWITZ.

These pages are in Hebrew and I am requesting someone to translate them
for me. There are 2 pages of index and 3 pages of text.
Please respond directly to me loganisjudd@prodigy.net

Many thanks.

Logan Lockabey
Costa Mesa, California
loganisjudd@prodigy.net

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Try the JewishGen Translation Service
<http://www.jewishgen.org/mentprog/m_trans.htm>. Also check out the
JewishGen Marketplace for Translators
<http://www.jewishgen.org/wconnect/wc.isa?Jg2~Market~Search~Translators>.


Belarus SIG #Belarus Request for Translator - Hebrew #belarus

LOGAN M LOCKABEY <LOGANISJUDD@...>
 

Dear Members:

I just received excerpts >from a Vitebsk document that contain
information on three of my family names; TZADKIN, GREENBLATT,
RABINOWITZ.

These pages are in Hebrew and I am requesting someone to translate them
for me. There are 2 pages of index and 3 pages of text.
Please respond directly to me loganisjudd@prodigy.net

Many thanks.

Logan Lockabey
Costa Mesa, California
loganisjudd@prodigy.net

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Try the JewishGen Translation Service
<http://www.jewishgen.org/mentprog/m_trans.htm>. Also check out the
JewishGen Marketplace for Translators
<http://www.jewishgen.org/wconnect/wc.isa?Jg2~Market~Search~Translators>.


GALLANT and a brewery in Riga? #latvia

jf2@...
 

Searching:
Connections or information on:
Azer GALLANT, born circa 1847, Riga. Jewish family.

Wife's name unknown.

Children: Henry b. 1867, Riga. Immigrated to US 1871 Settled in St.
Louis, Mo.
Abraham b. 1857, Riga. Immigrated to US 1885 Settled in St. Louis,
Mo.
Girl - name unknown.
Son - name possible Hirsh Married Cecila HIRSH (can't determine if
Hirsh was Cecila's maiden surname, or if it was the first name of
husband, Hirsh GALLANT?)Born in Riga, and did not immigrated to US.
Son of Hirsh and Cecila GALLANT: Barney GALLANT, b. 1884, Riga.
Immigrated to US 1903.
Barney is quoted in a book called "The Nightclub Era". He was a club
owner in NY during the 1920's
In the book he states:
> his "great-grandfather went into Russia with Napoleon's Army.
Napoleon scurried back throught he snow, but grandpa stayed n Russia.
This old fellow, who was so small that he could walk under a table
without snooping (some say while wearing a top hat) and who lived to be
104 years old, founded a large brewery in Riga."<
He does not mention the name of this man, nor the names of his parents,
or grand parents.
He says the name >"Gallant is spelled Galant in the French and Russian
editions of the family."<

Questions:
Barney sounds like a "man of stories", so I'm not sure how literally I
should take this account.
Are there any existing breweries at present? Does anyone know if there
were any prominent ones in the 1800's, early 1900's?
Is GALLANT a known name in Riga? We think the immigrants may have
adopted the name when they left Latvia.

I have been focusing research on US records so far, and have not made
attempts to do any "official" research in Latvia yet.
Any suggestions are appreciated.
Thanks,
Jamie


Latvia SIG #Latvia GALLANT and a brewery in Riga? #latvia

jf2@...
 

Searching:
Connections or information on:
Azer GALLANT, born circa 1847, Riga. Jewish family.

Wife's name unknown.

Children: Henry b. 1867, Riga. Immigrated to US 1871 Settled in St.
Louis, Mo.
Abraham b. 1857, Riga. Immigrated to US 1885 Settled in St. Louis,
Mo.
Girl - name unknown.
Son - name possible Hirsh Married Cecila HIRSH (can't determine if
Hirsh was Cecila's maiden surname, or if it was the first name of
husband, Hirsh GALLANT?)Born in Riga, and did not immigrated to US.
Son of Hirsh and Cecila GALLANT: Barney GALLANT, b. 1884, Riga.
Immigrated to US 1903.
Barney is quoted in a book called "The Nightclub Era". He was a club
owner in NY during the 1920's
In the book he states:
> his "great-grandfather went into Russia with Napoleon's Army.
Napoleon scurried back throught he snow, but grandpa stayed n Russia.
This old fellow, who was so small that he could walk under a table
without snooping (some say while wearing a top hat) and who lived to be
104 years old, founded a large brewery in Riga."<
He does not mention the name of this man, nor the names of his parents,
or grand parents.
He says the name >"Gallant is spelled Galant in the French and Russian
editions of the family."<

Questions:
Barney sounds like a "man of stories", so I'm not sure how literally I
should take this account.
Are there any existing breweries at present? Does anyone know if there
were any prominent ones in the 1800's, early 1900's?
Is GALLANT a known name in Riga? We think the immigrants may have
adopted the name when they left Latvia.

I have been focusing research on US records so far, and have not made
attempts to do any "official" research in Latvia yet.
Any suggestions are appreciated.
Thanks,
Jamie


Belarus Jewish Cemeteries #belarus

David M. Fox <fox@...>
 

To All Belarus SIG Members:

If you haven't done so already, you might want to check out the
information that is available about Jewish Cemeteries in Belarus
<http://www.jewishgen.org/Cemetery/byelarus.htm>. This page is part of
the IAJGS Cemetery Project. After you have had a chance to review the
information, please send additions and corrections to Arline Sachs
<sachs@axsamer.org>.

To submit cemetery data and lists of people buried in Belarus cemeteries
(or any Jewish cemeteries) please vist the IAJGS Cemetery Project page
<http://www.jewishgen.org/Cemetery/indexold.htm>.

David Fox
fox@erols.com
Arnold, MD
Belarus SIG Coordinator


Belarus SIG #Belarus Belarus Jewish Cemeteries #belarus

David M. Fox <fox@...>
 

To All Belarus SIG Members:

If you haven't done so already, you might want to check out the
information that is available about Jewish Cemeteries in Belarus
<http://www.jewishgen.org/Cemetery/byelarus.htm>. This page is part of
the IAJGS Cemetery Project. After you have had a chance to review the
information, please send additions and corrections to Arline Sachs
<sachs@axsamer.org>.

To submit cemetery data and lists of people buried in Belarus cemeteries
(or any Jewish cemeteries) please vist the IAJGS Cemetery Project page
<http://www.jewishgen.org/Cemetery/indexold.htm>.

David Fox
fox@erols.com
Arnold, MD
Belarus SIG Coordinator


Reliable research in Belarus #belarus

Gary Reifman <greifman@...>
 

I was very pleased to see that records were avalable for the town
of Gomel in both the Minsk Archives and the National Archives of
the Republic of Belarus.

Could anyone recommend a reliable researcher (or research service)
who could search the archives for the previously mentioned jewish
records of the town of Gomel?

Also, I would be interested in others experiences (cost, results,
etc...) of doing research in Belarus.

Gary Reifman
NY, NY

ps-
Thanks to David for putting together for such a complete post of the
information available.



---"David M. Fox" <fox@erols.com> wrote:

On September 11, 1998, Nancy Grossman posted a message relating some
feedback she received >from RAGAS regarding the availablity of records
for Vitebsk and vicinity. I would like to share some additional
information that might give some of you hope in finding records for
your towns.


Belarus SIG #Belarus Reliable research in Belarus #belarus

Gary Reifman <greifman@...>
 

I was very pleased to see that records were avalable for the town
of Gomel in both the Minsk Archives and the National Archives of
the Republic of Belarus.

Could anyone recommend a reliable researcher (or research service)
who could search the archives for the previously mentioned jewish
records of the town of Gomel?

Also, I would be interested in others experiences (cost, results,
etc...) of doing research in Belarus.

Gary Reifman
NY, NY

ps-
Thanks to David for putting together for such a complete post of the
information available.



---"David M. Fox" <fox@erols.com> wrote:

On September 11, 1998, Nancy Grossman posted a message relating some
feedback she received >from RAGAS regarding the availablity of records
for Vitebsk and vicinity. I would like to share some additional
information that might give some of you hope in finding records for
your towns.