Date   

Re: Help with relative unwilling to share #general

Coleen Scott <obazanek@...>
 

Jacqueline,

I have encountered similar barriers in my research. There are many
reasons for people (especially older relatives) for wanting to keep
family information secret. My mother-in-law believes it's wrong to
say "bad" things about a deceased person. Her definition of "bad"
extends to all kinds of minor character flaws. She was horrified
when she learned that a family member had revealed her father had
dabbled in the black market in Russia. (Who didn't?)

Here's what's worked for me:

Share your research - show what you're doing and help him/her
understand the project (i.e., you're not writing a tell-all book)

Reassure them that you won't share information they deem private
with other family members - and keep your promise

Listen, listen, listen. A lot of times that information they don't
want to tell you will come out in a conversation about someone else.

And if they don't tell, don't worry. One person making mysterious
hints about another person's past can't shake a good reputation -
as has been evidenced by the other interviews you've done.

Coleen Obazanek

SEARCHING: MARKUSFELD, OBARZANEK (all spellings), PIEKARZ,
KIRSCHENBAUM (Pultusk, Poland), MARKUSFELD (Warsaw)

From: "Jacqueline M Lerner-Aderman" <j.lerner_aderman@mailcity.com>
Reply-To: "Jacqueline M Lerner-Aderman" <j.lerner_aderman@mailcity.com>
To: "JewishGen Discussion Group" <jewishgen@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Subject: Help with relative unwilling to share
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 19:23:02 -0800
Met with a close relative today who knew my father. In the past,
she has eluded to knowing more than what she lets on. Today, she
stated that she will tell me what the information is upon her death.

I am an adult. Not sure what it is she is unwilling to share.
I do believe my father was a good man, as supported by those who
knew him.


Town in Geber. Kalish? #general

Kirsten Gradel <kmgradel@...>
 

Just received inf. on a family member born in Russiocice,
Guber. Kalish.

I have found a Russocice at 50.06/18.26 172 km. W of Warsaw,
and a Rusocice at 50.00/19.37 268 km. SSW of Warsaw. I can't
find out which, or both, or none, of these are in Kalish Gubern.
Can someone point me to the place, where that inf. undoubtedly
is to be found?

By the way:
I got the inf. >from a new found relative in Australia (born in
England). He has a photocopy of his grandmother's English Identity
Book no. xxxxxx, issued to her July 1918, which gives her name,
date and place of birth, the name of her father and the mother's
maiden name!! Also the nationality (Russian) of her and her
parents, and finally the name of a son under arms for England.
I have never heard of such Identity books, neither seen any mention
thereof when reading up on genealogical sources in England - does
anyone out there know where these informations are kept?
Were these books were only issued to foreigners?

Kirsten Gradel
Denmark


JGFF v. FTJP #general

Joan Rosen <jrosen@...>
 

I was under the impression that the names listed in JGFF are
those we are (or were) actively researching; FTJP necessarily
includes many surnames other than these, of those who married
into our families but whom we have no interest in researching
further. There are thus some overlaps, but relatively few.
There seems no point in listing all those surnames in JGFF.

Joan
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Joan Rosen
jrosen@voicenet.com
Elkins Park, Pa (outside Philadelphia)


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Help with relative unwilling to share #general

Coleen Scott <obazanek@...>
 

Jacqueline,

I have encountered similar barriers in my research. There are many
reasons for people (especially older relatives) for wanting to keep
family information secret. My mother-in-law believes it's wrong to
say "bad" things about a deceased person. Her definition of "bad"
extends to all kinds of minor character flaws. She was horrified
when she learned that a family member had revealed her father had
dabbled in the black market in Russia. (Who didn't?)

Here's what's worked for me:

Share your research - show what you're doing and help him/her
understand the project (i.e., you're not writing a tell-all book)

Reassure them that you won't share information they deem private
with other family members - and keep your promise

Listen, listen, listen. A lot of times that information they don't
want to tell you will come out in a conversation about someone else.

And if they don't tell, don't worry. One person making mysterious
hints about another person's past can't shake a good reputation -
as has been evidenced by the other interviews you've done.

Coleen Obazanek

SEARCHING: MARKUSFELD, OBARZANEK (all spellings), PIEKARZ,
KIRSCHENBAUM (Pultusk, Poland), MARKUSFELD (Warsaw)

From: "Jacqueline M Lerner-Aderman" <j.lerner_aderman@mailcity.com>
Reply-To: "Jacqueline M Lerner-Aderman" <j.lerner_aderman@mailcity.com>
To: "JewishGen Discussion Group" <jewishgen@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Subject: Help with relative unwilling to share
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 19:23:02 -0800
Met with a close relative today who knew my father. In the past,
she has eluded to knowing more than what she lets on. Today, she
stated that she will tell me what the information is upon her death.

I am an adult. Not sure what it is she is unwilling to share.
I do believe my father was a good man, as supported by those who
knew him.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Town in Geber. Kalish? #general

Kirsten Gradel <kmgradel@...>
 

Just received inf. on a family member born in Russiocice,
Guber. Kalish.

I have found a Russocice at 50.06/18.26 172 km. W of Warsaw,
and a Rusocice at 50.00/19.37 268 km. SSW of Warsaw. I can't
find out which, or both, or none, of these are in Kalish Gubern.
Can someone point me to the place, where that inf. undoubtedly
is to be found?

By the way:
I got the inf. >from a new found relative in Australia (born in
England). He has a photocopy of his grandmother's English Identity
Book no. xxxxxx, issued to her July 1918, which gives her name,
date and place of birth, the name of her father and the mother's
maiden name!! Also the nationality (Russian) of her and her
parents, and finally the name of a son under arms for England.
I have never heard of such Identity books, neither seen any mention
thereof when reading up on genealogical sources in England - does
anyone out there know where these informations are kept?
Were these books were only issued to foreigners?

Kirsten Gradel
Denmark


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen JGFF v. FTJP #general

Joan Rosen <jrosen@...>
 

I was under the impression that the names listed in JGFF are
those we are (or were) actively researching; FTJP necessarily
includes many surnames other than these, of those who married
into our families but whom we have no interest in researching
further. There are thus some overlaps, but relatively few.
There seems no point in listing all those surnames in JGFF.

Joan
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Joan Rosen
jrosen@voicenet.com
Elkins Park, Pa (outside Philadelphia)


Re: Query re: Archiwum Glówne Akt Dawnych #poland

Brian Stern <BrianS@...>
 

Can anyone advise me about the most efficient and economical way of
dealing with the Archiwum Glówne Akt Dawnych (AGAD) in Warsaw.
1. I wrote the initial letter in Polish, will it be more difficult to deal
with the archive if I write in English?
It's almost always better to deal with foreign archives in their own language.
I recommend you use the translation team. More info at:

http://www.uni-giessen.de/~gk72/usageE.html

2. Will there be any problem asking AGAD to search the books bit by
bit, so that I may see the relationships develop and thereby instruct
them to search the most relevant books first?
The basic rule of genealogy is to go >from the known to the unknown. I
recommend that you send only good queries to archives. A "good query"
is a query where you know something about the person being
asked about. As a rule of thumb I like to have three pieces of data
about someone in order to consider it a "good query." This is usually the
name,
place, and a date of an event (BMD). The date could be a small range
of years. It's better if you have more than three pieces of data.
Things like the names of parents or spouses or children add to
the quality of the query.

One advantage of a good query is that it is easy and fast for the archivist
to find or to determine that the record doesn't exist. Once you get back
a record >from such a query you can usually obtain additional info and
can make additional queries.

3. The researchers have identified three family names in the Drohobycz
birth records for 1877-79. At this stage, I cannot identify them as
family members, therefore I am unwilling to have copies made of the
entries.
I would recommend starting with someone that you know of and for whom
you can make a good query. Searching through years of record books
will run into money at any archive. First find some records based
on what you currently know. Then find some more records based on
your new info. If you still want to search year-by-year, do that
last.

If you know that the archive's records are indexed for the
years you're interested in your queries might be ok if they're
"less than good" queries.

I will be most grateful for any advice I receive on this matter.

Sincerely

Valerie Schatzker
Toronto, Ontario
________________________________________________________________
Brian Stern {8-{)} _________ BrianS@pbcomputing.com _________ Austin, TX

Searching: AUERBACH Touste, Ukr; HOCHMAN Touste, Ivano-frankovsk, Ukr;
ADLER, FISCH Zholkva, Ukr; STERN Bruchsal, Olnhausen, Laupheim,
Michelbach, Germany; BLOCH Eichtersheim Germany; EHRLICH Bieringen,
Edelfingen, Germany; GROSS Affaltrach, Germany; WUERZBERGER Bieringen,
Germany; KAUFMANN Laupheim Germany; SCHNAITACHER, OTTENSOSER, Fuerth,
Germany; LINDAU NYC, Greensboro, NC.


JRI Poland #Poland Re: Query re: Archiwum Glówne Akt Dawnych #poland

Brian Stern <BrianS@...>
 

Can anyone advise me about the most efficient and economical way of
dealing with the Archiwum Glówne Akt Dawnych (AGAD) in Warsaw.
1. I wrote the initial letter in Polish, will it be more difficult to deal
with the archive if I write in English?
It's almost always better to deal with foreign archives in their own language.
I recommend you use the translation team. More info at:

http://www.uni-giessen.de/~gk72/usageE.html

2. Will there be any problem asking AGAD to search the books bit by
bit, so that I may see the relationships develop and thereby instruct
them to search the most relevant books first?
The basic rule of genealogy is to go >from the known to the unknown. I
recommend that you send only good queries to archives. A "good query"
is a query where you know something about the person being
asked about. As a rule of thumb I like to have three pieces of data
about someone in order to consider it a "good query." This is usually the
name,
place, and a date of an event (BMD). The date could be a small range
of years. It's better if you have more than three pieces of data.
Things like the names of parents or spouses or children add to
the quality of the query.

One advantage of a good query is that it is easy and fast for the archivist
to find or to determine that the record doesn't exist. Once you get back
a record >from such a query you can usually obtain additional info and
can make additional queries.

3. The researchers have identified three family names in the Drohobycz
birth records for 1877-79. At this stage, I cannot identify them as
family members, therefore I am unwilling to have copies made of the
entries.
I would recommend starting with someone that you know of and for whom
you can make a good query. Searching through years of record books
will run into money at any archive. First find some records based
on what you currently know. Then find some more records based on
your new info. If you still want to search year-by-year, do that
last.

If you know that the archive's records are indexed for the
years you're interested in your queries might be ok if they're
"less than good" queries.

I will be most grateful for any advice I receive on this matter.

Sincerely

Valerie Schatzker
Toronto, Ontario
________________________________________________________________
Brian Stern {8-{)} _________ BrianS@pbcomputing.com _________ Austin, TX

Searching: AUERBACH Touste, Ukr; HOCHMAN Touste, Ivano-frankovsk, Ukr;
ADLER, FISCH Zholkva, Ukr; STERN Bruchsal, Olnhausen, Laupheim,
Michelbach, Germany; BLOCH Eichtersheim Germany; EHRLICH Bieringen,
Edelfingen, Germany; GROSS Affaltrach, Germany; WUERZBERGER Bieringen,
Germany; KAUFMANN Laupheim Germany; SCHNAITACHER, OTTENSOSER, Fuerth,
Germany; LINDAU NYC, Greensboro, NC.


Brooklyn Streets #general

,
 

Dear Genners,
Earlier today Daniel Kazez wrote looking for some information
about streets in Brooklyn. Although I replied to him privately
with essentially the same information everyone else did I would
like to share 2 suggestions I made to him which might prove helpful
on the general topic of Bklyn research. The first is the Brooklyn
Historical Society (www.brooklynhistory.org) and the second is the
Brooklyn Public Library system (www.brooklynpubliclibrary.org).
Besides the main branch, each neighborhood branch, i.e., Boro Park
and Carroll Gardens, is also on line.
Also earlier this week someone was looking for information on a
temple in the Bronx. If the temple is conservative you might
want to contact the Jewish Theological Seminary (www.jtsa.edu).
I'm sure they would have information about the synagogue.

Carol Blumenthal-Cohen


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Brooklyn Streets #general

,
 

Dear Genners,
Earlier today Daniel Kazez wrote looking for some information
about streets in Brooklyn. Although I replied to him privately
with essentially the same information everyone else did I would
like to share 2 suggestions I made to him which might prove helpful
on the general topic of Bklyn research. The first is the Brooklyn
Historical Society (www.brooklynhistory.org) and the second is the
Brooklyn Public Library system (www.brooklynpubliclibrary.org).
Besides the main branch, each neighborhood branch, i.e., Boro Park
and Carroll Gardens, is also on line.
Also earlier this week someone was looking for information on a
temple in the Bronx. If the temple is conservative you might
want to contact the Jewish Theological Seminary (www.jtsa.edu).
I'm sure they would have information about the synagogue.

Carol Blumenthal-Cohen


Re: Bayside Cemetary New York #general

Edward Rosenbaum <erosenbaum@...>
 

Millie,

Bayside cemetery will not answer telephone requests, will
respond to a letter. Their address is

Bayside cemetery
80-35 Pitkin Avenue
Ozone Park, NY 11417

718-843-4840

If you need further NYC cemetery information, check out my
Jewish Cemeteries in the New York City area site at
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Woods/4900/JewishCemeteries.htm


Edward Rosenbaum
Bergenfield, NJ
Webmaster, Belarus SIG (http://www.jewishgen.org/belarus)
President, JGS of Bergen County, New Jersey
(http://home.att.net/~erosenbaum/jgsbc.htm)
email: erosenbaum@att.net
url: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Woods/4900/

Researching
AARONSON (Russia), BELLER (Slonim, Belarus)BUDNA/BUDNE (Brok and Ostrow
Mazowiecka Poland), GOLDBERG (Poland), GRUNDFAST/GRUNDFEST (Sverzhen,
Belarus),HOFFMAN/OFMAN, (Brok and Ostrow Mazowiecka Poland),MONKA
Przasnysz, Poland), NOVAK (Makow, Poland),ROSENBAUM (Swirkowice,
Chmielarze, and Kierlikowka Galicia) ROTTENBERG (Galicia)
SHATZ/SHISHATZKY/SZYSZACKI (Lunna and Porozovo, Belarus)
CHATZKELMY, KLATZKIN, SILVERBLATT, SIMON(Russia)YOSKOWITZ (Wyshkow, Poland)

-----Original Message-----
From: MILDRED LESTER <simfie@hotmail.com>

Does anyone know the phone number and address of Bayside
Cemetary in New York? And are they helpful?


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Bayside Cemetary New York #general

Edward Rosenbaum <erosenbaum@...>
 

Millie,

Bayside cemetery will not answer telephone requests, will
respond to a letter. Their address is

Bayside cemetery
80-35 Pitkin Avenue
Ozone Park, NY 11417

718-843-4840

If you need further NYC cemetery information, check out my
Jewish Cemeteries in the New York City area site at
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Woods/4900/JewishCemeteries.htm


Edward Rosenbaum
Bergenfield, NJ
Webmaster, Belarus SIG (http://www.jewishgen.org/belarus)
President, JGS of Bergen County, New Jersey
(http://home.att.net/~erosenbaum/jgsbc.htm)
email: erosenbaum@att.net
url: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Woods/4900/

Researching
AARONSON (Russia), BELLER (Slonim, Belarus)BUDNA/BUDNE (Brok and Ostrow
Mazowiecka Poland), GOLDBERG (Poland), GRUNDFAST/GRUNDFEST (Sverzhen,
Belarus),HOFFMAN/OFMAN, (Brok and Ostrow Mazowiecka Poland),MONKA
Przasnysz, Poland), NOVAK (Makow, Poland),ROSENBAUM (Swirkowice,
Chmielarze, and Kierlikowka Galicia) ROTTENBERG (Galicia)
SHATZ/SHISHATZKY/SZYSZACKI (Lunna and Porozovo, Belarus)
CHATZKELMY, KLATZKIN, SILVERBLATT, SIMON(Russia)YOSKOWITZ (Wyshkow, Poland)

-----Original Message-----
From: MILDRED LESTER <simfie@hotmail.com>

Does anyone know the phone number and address of Bayside
Cemetary in New York? And are they helpful?


San Fran Bay Area JGS Meeting #general

Dana Kurtz <dlkurtz@...>
 

The San Francisco Bay Area Jewish Genealogical Society
announces its next meeting:

SUNDAY, JANUARY 23, 1999
Fort Mason Center
Marina Blvd. at Buchanan St.
Building C, Room 205
San Francisco

Doors open - 12:30pm, Program begins 1pm

Topic: RESOURCES AT THE UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA, BERKELEY

SFBAJGS member Jeremy Frankel will introduce us to the wide range of
holdings in the U.C. Berkeley collections, valuable for genealogical
research.

Join us!

Visit our website at: www.jewishgen.org/sfbajgs

For more information, contact:
Rodger Rosenberg, President, eandr@ix.netcom.com
Rosanne Leeson, Vice President, Leeson1@attglobal.net
Sita Likuski, Membership, sitaL@aol.com
Judy Baston, Librarian, jrbaston@aol.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen San Fran Bay Area JGS Meeting #general

Dana Kurtz <dlkurtz@...>
 

The San Francisco Bay Area Jewish Genealogical Society
announces its next meeting:

SUNDAY, JANUARY 23, 1999
Fort Mason Center
Marina Blvd. at Buchanan St.
Building C, Room 205
San Francisco

Doors open - 12:30pm, Program begins 1pm

Topic: RESOURCES AT THE UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA, BERKELEY

SFBAJGS member Jeremy Frankel will introduce us to the wide range of
holdings in the U.C. Berkeley collections, valuable for genealogical
research.

Join us!

Visit our website at: www.jewishgen.org/sfbajgs

For more information, contact:
Rodger Rosenberg, President, eandr@ix.netcom.com
Rosanne Leeson, Vice President, Leeson1@attglobal.net
Sita Likuski, Membership, sitaL@aol.com
Judy Baston, Librarian, jrbaston@aol.com


Re: Tiatcewo #hungary

Norman Fuhrer <nfuhrer@...>
 

Does anyone recognize the word Tiatcewo?

We found this on a document received >from Yad Vashem. It appears to be
listed with place of birth. Also listed are the towns of Ushorod and
Munkac.

We have checked in the Shtetl Seeker but did not come up with anything.

We received sketchy information on each form with regard to our relatives
who perished at Auschwitz, but this one for my uncle, Moshe FUHRER, is the
only one listing Tiatcewo.

Any information will be greatly appreciated.

Norman Fuhrer -- nfuhrer@iu.net
Titusville, FL


Hungary SIG #Hungary RE: Tiatcewo #hungary

Norman Fuhrer <nfuhrer@...>
 

Does anyone recognize the word Tiatcewo?

We found this on a document received >from Yad Vashem. It appears to be
listed with place of birth. Also listed are the towns of Ushorod and
Munkac.

We have checked in the Shtetl Seeker but did not come up with anything.

We received sketchy information on each form with regard to our relatives
who perished at Auschwitz, but this one for my uncle, Moshe FUHRER, is the
only one listing Tiatcewo.

Any information will be greatly appreciated.

Norman Fuhrer -- nfuhrer@iu.net
Titusville, FL


Vamfalu (Vama) 1828 Land Census #hungary

Vivian Kahn
 

After finding very few Jewish names in the 1828 Ujvaros Land Census,
I looked through the records for several nearby communities including
Vamfalu. In the Vamfalu records I found two households named MATYAS
(presumably the family of Leib MATYAS who wrote Bedamayich Chayi, the
Ujvaros Yizkor book based on the circumcision records of his
grandfather Matityahu Asher Zelig MATYAS) as well as two headed by a
Jew named BERKO. While I can not be certain that these are my
BERKOVITS family, given that my BERKOVITS family was living in
Ujvaros, a few km away, in the 1870's, it seems possible. The
Vamfalu records also list a Samuel MARKOVITS.

The writing is very difficult to read but it appers that one entry
reads "Aron Matyas 'Sido" and the other looks like "Kos or Kis
(little?) Matyas 'Sido". All of the Jewish households are identified
as subtenants. There is an entry under the observations column for
the two MATYAS households that looks like "Kunates harban ?? rendas?"
The comment following BERKO and MARKOVITS is "A 'haira Uvasggent?"
Any idea what these entries might be?


Re: Carpatho-Ruthenia #hungary

korman3 <korman3@...>
 

Thanks to Gabor for directing us to the Hungarian Jewish webpage. I just
read the article on the holocaust in Carpatho-Ruthenia. One thing that
surprised me was that there are lists of residents of Ungvar and some
other towns created at the time of deportation, and other pertinent name
lists for the region. Considering how difficult information is to obtain
for this area, these lists are pretty valuable. Any possibility of
having searches done, getting copies of the lists or, dare I say it,
creating a database? I would even volunteer for data input and project
coordination for this.

Debbi


KAHAN/Kabolapatak #hungary

Vivian Kahn
 

Apologies to those of you who are on my list of KAHAN researchers
will receive duplicate copies of this message. I'm circulating this
info to the whole H-SIG list in hopes that someone can answer my
questions.

I spend several hours this week going over the 1828 Census Records
from Kabolapatak, about 1.5 km west of Sziget on the now Romanian
side of the Tisza River, which include 47 Jewish households out of a
total of 93. Wolf KAHAN, whom I believe is Zev Wolf KAHAN, one of the
sons of Rabbi Yehuda KAHAN, is #67. According to the census there
were two adults who provided information including one of whom was a
subtenant. The notation under observations reads: "Habias in Domo
es. Funda Nobilisari" which I believe means something about living on
some nobleman's estate.

I also looked at the records for Kabolapolyana, but none of the
households appear to be Jewish. Records for both communities are on
FHL Film #0623127. I have copies of all of the pages for Kabolapatak
and will attempt to transcribe the names of Jewish householders but
both the film and copies are very dark and difficult to read.

Am puzzled by the fact that there are no 1828 records for
Kabolacsarda, which is shown on late 19th century maps of Maramaros
megye and is reportedly the place where Zev Wolf KAHAN lived. I also
have quite a few other KAHAN names >from Kabolacsarda. Note that
Kabolacsarda is on what is now the Ukranian side of the Tisza River.

A few questions:

1. Can anyone confirm that the Wolf KAHAN who appears in the 1828
Kabolapatak records is Zev Wolf KAHAN, son of Rabbi Yehuda KAHAN of
Sziget?

2. Has anyone seen 1827 or 1828 Land Census or other records for Kabolacsarda?

3. What is the presentday name of Kabolapatak if it is, in fact, now
in Romania?


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Carpatho-Ruthenia #hungary

korman3 <korman3@...>
 

Thanks to Gabor for directing us to the Hungarian Jewish webpage. I just
read the article on the holocaust in Carpatho-Ruthenia. One thing that
surprised me was that there are lists of residents of Ungvar and some
other towns created at the time of deportation, and other pertinent name
lists for the region. Considering how difficult information is to obtain
for this area, these lists are pretty valuable. Any possibility of
having searches done, getting copies of the lists or, dare I say it,
creating a database? I would even volunteer for data input and project
coordination for this.

Debbi