Date   

Re: Town in Latvia? #latvia

Andrea Vangor <drav@...>
 

Dear Adam and List --

Thank you for your reply. You are so right -- your guess is as good as
mine. I am just thinking, that the 1920 census was taken shortly after
Latvia became an independent country -- am I correct here? Did it not
achieve independence after World War I?

So perhaps my great-grandmother's cousin, when asked where she came >from in
the 1920 census, did not respond "Russia" but was thinking that there was a
new country there somewhere, and may have confused "Riga" with the country
of Latvia. Itf that is true, we might be >from anywhere in Latvia.

There were people named Bender or Binder >from Riga itself, however, who show
up in the Hamburg database. So if anyone can think of a likely town that
the Germans would have called "Kross" in the Riga area, please let me know.

Another question for the list: when the Hamburg database first went on
line, was it not possible to find the names of other passengers >from the
same town of origin, or am I hallucinating?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Adam Katzeff" <adam.katzeff@mail.bip.net>
To: "Latvia SIG" <latvia@lyris.jewishgen.org>; <drav@oz.net>
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2000 3:27 PM
Subject: SV: [latvia] Town in Latvia?


Dear Andrea and all others,

Andrea Vangor wrote:

I have just located records >from the on-line Hamburg site for what I
believe
to be my orphaned great-grandmother Yetta Bender travelling with her
aunt
and cousins to New York via Liverpool on May 30, 1890. All six family
members, one adult and five children, come >from a town that the German
translated as "Kross" or "Krosz".

My only reason for believing that the family came >from Latvia is that
one
of
the cousins, Rose Bender Pearlman, apparently claimed to have come from
Riga
when questioned for the 1920 California census.
I don't know about a shtetl with such a name in Latvia, but there are one
named Krozhi or Krozhe in Russian (Kraziai in Lithuanian and Krosh in
Yiddish) situated in the former Rossiyeny uyezd (district) of the Kovno
guberniya, today in western Lithuania.

Sometimes people give their last place of residence or even port of
embarkment as their birthplace in records in the new country. So, maybe
your
cousin had lived in Riga, but originated in Kraziai!

Best regards

Adam Katzeff
Malmoe, Sweden

adam.katzeff@mail.bip.net

Researching:
GOLDBERG: Klykoliai+Kursenai+Papile, Lithuania; Cesis, Latvia;
Parnu+Tallinn, Estonia; Sweden
GORDON: Tukums, Latvia; Sweden; St Petersburg, Russia
KATSEV / KATZEFF / KATZOFF / KACEV: Papile, Lithuania; Cesis, Latvia;
Parnu+Tallinn, Estonia; Sweden; Denmark; Glasgow, Scotland; Boston, MA+New
York, NY+Atlanta, GA+Los Angeles, CA+San Fransisco, CA, USA



Latvia SIG #Latvia Re: Town in Latvia? #latvia

Andrea Vangor <drav@...>
 

Dear Adam and List --

Thank you for your reply. You are so right -- your guess is as good as
mine. I am just thinking, that the 1920 census was taken shortly after
Latvia became an independent country -- am I correct here? Did it not
achieve independence after World War I?

So perhaps my great-grandmother's cousin, when asked where she came >from in
the 1920 census, did not respond "Russia" but was thinking that there was a
new country there somewhere, and may have confused "Riga" with the country
of Latvia. Itf that is true, we might be >from anywhere in Latvia.

There were people named Bender or Binder >from Riga itself, however, who show
up in the Hamburg database. So if anyone can think of a likely town that
the Germans would have called "Kross" in the Riga area, please let me know.

Another question for the list: when the Hamburg database first went on
line, was it not possible to find the names of other passengers >from the
same town of origin, or am I hallucinating?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Adam Katzeff" <adam.katzeff@mail.bip.net>
To: "Latvia SIG" <latvia@lyris.jewishgen.org>; <drav@oz.net>
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2000 3:27 PM
Subject: SV: [latvia] Town in Latvia?


Dear Andrea and all others,

Andrea Vangor wrote:

I have just located records >from the on-line Hamburg site for what I
believe
to be my orphaned great-grandmother Yetta Bender travelling with her
aunt
and cousins to New York via Liverpool on May 30, 1890. All six family
members, one adult and five children, come >from a town that the German
translated as "Kross" or "Krosz".

My only reason for believing that the family came >from Latvia is that
one
of
the cousins, Rose Bender Pearlman, apparently claimed to have come from
Riga
when questioned for the 1920 California census.
I don't know about a shtetl with such a name in Latvia, but there are one
named Krozhi or Krozhe in Russian (Kraziai in Lithuanian and Krosh in
Yiddish) situated in the former Rossiyeny uyezd (district) of the Kovno
guberniya, today in western Lithuania.

Sometimes people give their last place of residence or even port of
embarkment as their birthplace in records in the new country. So, maybe
your
cousin had lived in Riga, but originated in Kraziai!

Best regards

Adam Katzeff
Malmoe, Sweden

adam.katzeff@mail.bip.net

Researching:
GOLDBERG: Klykoliai+Kursenai+Papile, Lithuania; Cesis, Latvia;
Parnu+Tallinn, Estonia; Sweden
GORDON: Tukums, Latvia; Sweden; St Petersburg, Russia
KATSEV / KATZEFF / KATZOFF / KACEV: Papile, Lithuania; Cesis, Latvia;
Parnu+Tallinn, Estonia; Sweden; Denmark; Glasgow, Scotland; Boston, MA+New
York, NY+Atlanta, GA+Los Angeles, CA+San Fransisco, CA, USA



Re: Foolish question #latvia

Martha Lev-Zion <martha@...>
 

My query has not yet appeared, but I suddenly feel very foolish at having
asked how I could find out my ggparents first names. I obviously need to
get my grandmother's (or her siblings) birth certificate. Next time I will
try and think a bit before letting my fingers run away with me.

Judith Hamilton Colcheser UK edenland@dialstart.net
You needn't be embarrassed, Judith. We were all beginners once and made
similiar mistakes! That is one of the reasons why it is very constructive
to join a local genealogy group!

Martha Lev-Zion in Israel


Re: Town in Latvia? #latvia

Adam Katzeff <adam.katzeff@...>
 

Dear Andrea and all others,

Andrea Vangor wrote:

I have just located records >from the on-line Hamburg site for what I
believe
to be my orphaned great-grandmother Yetta Bender travelling with her aunt
and cousins to New York via Liverpool on May 30, 1890. All six family
members, one adult and five children, come >from a town that the German
translated as "Kross" or "Krosz".

My only reason for believing that the family came >from Latvia is that one
of
the cousins, Rose Bender Pearlman, apparently claimed to have come from
Riga
when questioned for the 1920 California census.
I don't know about a shtetl with such a name in Latvia, but there are one
named Krozhi or Krozhe in Russian (Kraziai in Lithuanian and Krosh in
Yiddish) situated in the former Rossiyeny uyezd (district) of the Kovno
guberniya, today in western Lithuania.

Sometimes people give their last place of residence or even port of
embarkment as their birthplace in records in the new country. So, maybe your
cousin had lived in Riga, but originated in Kraziai!

Best regards

Adam Katzeff
Malmoe, Sweden

adam.katzeff@mail.bip.net

Researching:
GOLDBERG: Klykoliai+Kursenai+Papile, Lithuania; Cesis, Latvia;
Parnu+Tallinn, Estonia; Sweden
GORDON: Tukums, Latvia; Sweden; St Petersburg, Russia
KATSEV / KATZEFF / KATZOFF / KACEV: Papile, Lithuania; Cesis, Latvia;
Parnu+Tallinn, Estonia; Sweden; Denmark; Glasgow, Scotland; Boston, MA+New
York, NY+Atlanta, GA+Los Angeles, CA+San Fransisco, CA, USA


Latvia SIG #Latvia Re: Foolish question #latvia

Martha Lev-Zion <martha@...>
 

My query has not yet appeared, but I suddenly feel very foolish at having
asked how I could find out my ggparents first names. I obviously need to
get my grandmother's (or her siblings) birth certificate. Next time I will
try and think a bit before letting my fingers run away with me.

Judith Hamilton Colcheser UK edenland@dialstart.net
You needn't be embarrassed, Judith. We were all beginners once and made
similiar mistakes! That is one of the reasons why it is very constructive
to join a local genealogy group!

Martha Lev-Zion in Israel


Latvia SIG #Latvia SV: Town in Latvia? #latvia

Adam Katzeff <adam.katzeff@...>
 

Dear Andrea and all others,

Andrea Vangor wrote:

I have just located records >from the on-line Hamburg site for what I
believe
to be my orphaned great-grandmother Yetta Bender travelling with her aunt
and cousins to New York via Liverpool on May 30, 1890. All six family
members, one adult and five children, come >from a town that the German
translated as "Kross" or "Krosz".

My only reason for believing that the family came >from Latvia is that one
of
the cousins, Rose Bender Pearlman, apparently claimed to have come from
Riga
when questioned for the 1920 California census.
I don't know about a shtetl with such a name in Latvia, but there are one
named Krozhi or Krozhe in Russian (Kraziai in Lithuanian and Krosh in
Yiddish) situated in the former Rossiyeny uyezd (district) of the Kovno
guberniya, today in western Lithuania.

Sometimes people give their last place of residence or even port of
embarkment as their birthplace in records in the new country. So, maybe your
cousin had lived in Riga, but originated in Kraziai!

Best regards

Adam Katzeff
Malmoe, Sweden

adam.katzeff@mail.bip.net

Researching:
GOLDBERG: Klykoliai+Kursenai+Papile, Lithuania; Cesis, Latvia;
Parnu+Tallinn, Estonia; Sweden
GORDON: Tukums, Latvia; Sweden; St Petersburg, Russia
KATSEV / KATZEFF / KATZOFF / KACEV: Papile, Lithuania; Cesis, Latvia;
Parnu+Tallinn, Estonia; Sweden; Denmark; Glasgow, Scotland; Boston, MA+New
York, NY+Atlanta, GA+Los Angeles, CA+San Fransisco, CA, USA


Re: A response to Mrs. Bruckenheimer #general

Sally Bruckheimer <sallybru@...>
 

Ms Starkman wrote to Mr. Heschel:
Thank you for your kind efforts on behalf of the 85% of American Jewish
genealogists who eventually trace their ancestry to Eastern Europe.
Perhaps Ms. Bruckenheimer was not aware that your research is in Yiddish
names, which were not used in the countries of her interest. Although I am
not Mrs. Bruckenheimer [sic], let me say that I have no quarrel with the
list of Eastern European names which Mr. Heschel made up. My objection is
to the assertion that no one should be named differently. I have Eastern
European heritage, including Phoebus Hirsch who certainly cannot have be
named Phoebus according to Mr. Heschel.

Phoebus was an Eastern European name (my Phoebus was >from near Stettin,
Poland). Ury Link and Judith Romney Wagner have pointed out other
Phoebus's (Phoebi?) in Eastern European history.

Ms Bruckheimer is aware that Mr. Heschel researches Yiddish names-which
were used in some of the countries that interest me. I even commented
that I learned >from him that Phoebus may also have been called Feivel.

My objection is to the restriction that because the name is not on some
list, it is not possible. Obviously it is possible. Let us not make
absolute rules of what was and was not - when there were exceptions, and
other groups than what one person or group is interested in.

Sally Bruckheimer
Buffalo, NY

MODERATOR NOTE: Please continue this discussion privately.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: A response to Mrs. Bruckenheimer #general

Sally Bruckheimer <sallybru@...>
 

Ms Starkman wrote to Mr. Heschel:
Thank you for your kind efforts on behalf of the 85% of American Jewish
genealogists who eventually trace their ancestry to Eastern Europe.
Perhaps Ms. Bruckenheimer was not aware that your research is in Yiddish
names, which were not used in the countries of her interest. Although I am
not Mrs. Bruckenheimer [sic], let me say that I have no quarrel with the
list of Eastern European names which Mr. Heschel made up. My objection is
to the assertion that no one should be named differently. I have Eastern
European heritage, including Phoebus Hirsch who certainly cannot have be
named Phoebus according to Mr. Heschel.

Phoebus was an Eastern European name (my Phoebus was >from near Stettin,
Poland). Ury Link and Judith Romney Wagner have pointed out other
Phoebus's (Phoebi?) in Eastern European history.

Ms Bruckheimer is aware that Mr. Heschel researches Yiddish names-which
were used in some of the countries that interest me. I even commented
that I learned >from him that Phoebus may also have been called Feivel.

My objection is to the restriction that because the name is not on some
list, it is not possible. Obviously it is possible. Let us not make
absolute rules of what was and was not - when there were exceptions, and
other groups than what one person or group is interested in.

Sally Bruckheimer
Buffalo, NY

MODERATOR NOTE: Please continue this discussion privately.


Vital Records in New Jersey #general

feinber2@...
 

Dear Genners,

I thought I would respond to Richard May's letter this way, rather than
privately, because there are probably a lot of people who would like to get
NJ vital records. It's not that hard to do. There are no LDS indexes
available, so you have to go through the state. I recently did this.

Just write to: State of New Jersey
Department of Health and Senior Services
P. O. Box 370
Trenton, NJ 08625-0370

They will do the research for you. Just provide a name and a location (city
or county) as a minimum. Any other info such as address, parents' names,
date of death, next of kin might help, also.

The cost is $4 for each certificate. They charge an extra $1 for each year
that is researched. Make check out to New Jersey State Treasurer.
Turn-around time is about 4 weeks. Not such a bad deal. If you have extra
cash and a short attention span, you can call 1-800-669-8309 and request the
records through "Vital Chek", and can get records quicker ( 8-14 days
through US Mail, or 5-7 days through Federal Express for an extra $14.75).
There is also an $8.95 charge for credit card use thru "Vital Chek." Good
luck.

Arthur Feinberg
Kalamazoo, MI


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Vital Records in New Jersey #general

feinber2@...
 

Dear Genners,

I thought I would respond to Richard May's letter this way, rather than
privately, because there are probably a lot of people who would like to get
NJ vital records. It's not that hard to do. There are no LDS indexes
available, so you have to go through the state. I recently did this.

Just write to: State of New Jersey
Department of Health and Senior Services
P. O. Box 370
Trenton, NJ 08625-0370

They will do the research for you. Just provide a name and a location (city
or county) as a minimum. Any other info such as address, parents' names,
date of death, next of kin might help, also.

The cost is $4 for each certificate. They charge an extra $1 for each year
that is researched. Make check out to New Jersey State Treasurer.
Turn-around time is about 4 weeks. Not such a bad deal. If you have extra
cash and a short attention span, you can call 1-800-669-8309 and request the
records through "Vital Chek", and can get records quicker ( 8-14 days
through US Mail, or 5-7 days through Federal Express for an extra $14.75).
There is also an $8.95 charge for credit card use thru "Vital Chek." Good
luck.

Arthur Feinberg
Kalamazoo, MI


Re: Ships from Bremen #general

Carole/Phil Silverman
 

For ships arriving in New York >from foreign ports see < http://www
cimorelli.com >.

Phillip Silverman
Culver City, CA


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen RE:Ships from Bremen #general

Carole/Phil Silverman
 

For ships arriving in New York >from foreign ports see < http://www
cimorelli.com >.

Phillip Silverman
Culver City, CA


ViewMate : Head Covering #general

Richard I. Schoen <rschoen@...>
 

I have posted two pictures (VM 116-117) of a man whose head covering
I find interesting. I would be pleased to hear >from anyone with any
insight concerning these pictures.

Richard I. Schoen
Falls Church, VA

Moderator Note: The URL for ViewMate is: http://www.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen ViewMate : Head Covering #general

Richard I. Schoen <rschoen@...>
 

I have posted two pictures (VM 116-117) of a man whose head covering
I find interesting. I would be pleased to hear >from anyone with any
insight concerning these pictures.

Richard I. Schoen
Falls Church, VA

Moderator Note: The URL for ViewMate is: http://www.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/


Help with Polish Birth Record on ViewMate #general

DrsJavinskyLittle <SusanLittleDVM@...>
 

Dear Genners:

I have posted the Polish birth record for my husband's gg grandfather on
ViewMate - file VM112.

I believe I have translated the following information correctly:

Israel Icyk Dziewiecki born Feb ?, 1849
Father: Kalma Dziewiecki, age 37
Mother: Ruchli Ickowicz, age 25

I cannot read the date in February that Israel Icyk was born and I cannot=

decipher the occupation of his father or where he lived. Could a kind
genner please have a look for me?

Thank you in advance !

Susan Javinsky
Ottawa, Canada
Researching: DZIEWIECKI, PALESNICKI (Dzialoszyce, Poland)
WEINSHENKER (Warszawa, Poland), HUSNEY (Aleppo, Syria)


Re: Researcher Advice #ukraine

GojuMom@...
 

As for researchers, there is a link through JewishGen which lists
professional genealogists and their qualifications. It can be found at:

http://www.jewishgen.org/ajgs/jgsla/apg.htm

And also in the FAQ files there is an article with suggestions on how to
hire a professional genealogist written by a professional genalogist.

http://www.jewishgen.org/infofiles/profgen.txt

Hope this helps.
JoAnne Vanett,
Ambler, PA


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Help with Polish Birth Record on ViewMate #general

DrsJavinskyLittle <SusanLittleDVM@...>
 

Dear Genners:

I have posted the Polish birth record for my husband's gg grandfather on
ViewMate - file VM112.

I believe I have translated the following information correctly:

Israel Icyk Dziewiecki born Feb ?, 1849
Father: Kalma Dziewiecki, age 37
Mother: Ruchli Ickowicz, age 25

I cannot read the date in February that Israel Icyk was born and I cannot=

decipher the occupation of his father or where he lived. Could a kind
genner please have a look for me?

Thank you in advance !

Susan Javinsky
Ottawa, Canada
Researching: DZIEWIECKI, PALESNICKI (Dzialoszyce, Poland)
WEINSHENKER (Warszawa, Poland), HUSNEY (Aleppo, Syria)


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Re: Researcher Advice #ukraine

GojuMom@...
 

As for researchers, there is a link through JewishGen which lists
professional genealogists and their qualifications. It can be found at:

http://www.jewishgen.org/ajgs/jgsla/apg.htm

And also in the FAQ files there is an article with suggestions on how to
hire a professional genealogist written by a professional genalogist.

http://www.jewishgen.org/infofiles/profgen.txt

Hope this helps.
JoAnne Vanett,
Ambler, PA


Re: YV lists answers #hungary

Gabor Hirsch <hirsch@...>
 

I am afraid my letter was unreadable, so I resend it in Textformat only.


[mod.- Thank you Gabor. Nearly 100 subscribers, all of whom have AOL cannot receive messages except when sent in "plain text" format. LS

I believe I have the same kind of listing >from different source, from
Bekescsaba, neolog and orthodox
Battonya
Bekes
even in the same settlement might be differing even in headings, I take
Bekescsaba as an example my hometown, as well as I transcribed it.

Orthodox community; Each member of the family is on a separate line.
1st. col. running number; The 2nd col. is name, first name; 3rd col.
Mothers name, first name; 4th..  col. last address.

Neolog community; Each family member is in a common line the 1st.  col.
running number; 2nd. col. name, first name; 3rd col. Mothers name, first
name; 4th col. wife's maiden name first name; 5th col. chlordane's name
6th col. last address.

Mezotur, Each family one line and common 1st col. running number; 2nd
col. name first name; 3rd. col. last address; 4th col. mother's name
first name, 5th col. wife yes/no; 6th. col. no of children

Mezokovacshaza;  Each family one line and common 1st col. running
number; 2nd col. name first name; 3rd col. date of birth; 4th col.
family status; 5th col. mother's name first name; 6th col. first name of
family members; 7th col. birth data of fam.. members; 7th col. last
address

Battonya each family one line, no running number, column for birth

place, date, father's first name, mother's name and first name, address
(but settlement only)

I saw may be one list with profession added.

AS you see the lists are quite individually set up. There are quite a
lot of orthographic errors included, the list had to be prepared on
short notice. I believe it is an advantage, if you came of the place and
definitely understands some Hungarian. I am willing to send you the
computer lists of the settlements of the ghetto >from Bekescsaba if they
are identical with the ones you are going to get, because it don't give
me any additional work  but you have to validate, proof it. But as the
source is neither >from Y.V. nor >from the Jewishgen/H-SIG I want to use
them and expand them with register of death if Shoa victims, for me they
are not genealogical but Shoa documents. The settlements I am ready to
cooperate are Banhegyes, Battonya, Bekes, Bekescsaba, Endrod, Gyula,
Mezokovacshaza, Oroshaza, Szarvas, Totkomlos. The list of Szarvas is
missing, Bekescsaba is finished with some 2049 person.

Best regards
Gabor Hirsch

Louis Schonfeld schrieb:

. The following is a more complete
description  and the requirements for the various tasks needed:
. The following are the column headings:

1. sequence number 2. name of deportee, for female married deportee
also
includes maiden name 3. birth location 4. date of birth 5. mother's
maiden
name 6. occupation 7. address of res


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: YV lists answers #hungary

Gabor Hirsch <hirsch@...>
 

I am afraid my letter was unreadable, so I resend it in Textformat only.


[mod.- Thank you Gabor. Nearly 100 subscribers, all of whom have AOL cannot receive messages except when sent in "plain text" format. LS

I believe I have the same kind of listing >from different source, from
Bekescsaba, neolog and orthodox
Battonya
Bekes
even in the same settlement might be differing even in headings, I take
Bekescsaba as an example my hometown, as well as I transcribed it.

Orthodox community; Each member of the family is on a separate line.
1st. col. running number; The 2nd col. is name, first name; 3rd col.
Mothers name, first name; 4th..  col. last address.

Neolog community; Each family member is in a common line the 1st.  col.
running number; 2nd. col. name, first name; 3rd col. Mothers name, first
name; 4th col. wife's maiden name first name; 5th col. chlordane's name
6th col. last address.

Mezotur, Each family one line and common 1st col. running number; 2nd
col. name first name; 3rd. col. last address; 4th col. mother's name
first name, 5th col. wife yes/no; 6th. col. no of children

Mezokovacshaza;  Each family one line and common 1st col. running
number; 2nd col. name first name; 3rd col. date of birth; 4th col.
family status; 5th col. mother's name first name; 6th col. first name of
family members; 7th col. birth data of fam.. members; 7th col. last
address

Battonya each family one line, no running number, column for birth

place, date, father's first name, mother's name and first name, address
(but settlement only)

I saw may be one list with profession added.

AS you see the lists are quite individually set up. There are quite a
lot of orthographic errors included, the list had to be prepared on
short notice. I believe it is an advantage, if you came of the place and
definitely understands some Hungarian. I am willing to send you the
computer lists of the settlements of the ghetto >from Bekescsaba if they
are identical with the ones you are going to get, because it don't give
me any additional work  but you have to validate, proof it. But as the
source is neither >from Y.V. nor >from the Jewishgen/H-SIG I want to use
them and expand them with register of death if Shoa victims, for me they
are not genealogical but Shoa documents. The settlements I am ready to
cooperate are Banhegyes, Battonya, Bekes, Bekescsaba, Endrod, Gyula,
Mezokovacshaza, Oroshaza, Szarvas, Totkomlos. The list of Szarvas is
missing, Bekescsaba is finished with some 2049 person.

Best regards
Gabor Hirsch

Louis Schonfeld schrieb:

. The following is a more complete
description  and the requirements for the various tasks needed:
. The following are the column headings:

1. sequence number 2. name of deportee, for female married deportee
also
includes maiden name 3. birth location 4. date of birth 5. mother's
maiden
name 6. occupation 7. address of res