Date   

Re: NAME EQUIVALENTS #hungary

tom klein <tom_klein@...>
 

i always thought "fani" was short for "stefania".

....... tom klein, toronto

Moderator VK: I found the Fani=Fradel, Freida combination in the Sziget Pinkas. All this proves, once again, is that although some combinations are more common than others, people picked the names they liked.

"Alex Miller" <AMiller@strategicanalysis.com> wrote:

Hello Friends,

What are the equivalent formal names of the following: Betti Netti
Jetti Sali Zali Rezi Fani
[snip!]

Moderator VK: Here are a few suggestions.
[snip!]

Fani--Fradel, Frieda


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: NAME EQUIVALENTS #hungary

tom klein <tom_klein@...>
 

i always thought "fani" was short for "stefania".

....... tom klein, toronto

Moderator VK: I found the Fani=Fradel, Freida combination in the Sziget Pinkas. All this proves, once again, is that although some combinations are more common than others, people picked the names they liked.

"Alex Miller" <AMiller@strategicanalysis.com> wrote:

Hello Friends,

What are the equivalent formal names of the following: Betti Netti
Jetti Sali Zali Rezi Fani
[snip!]

Moderator VK: Here are a few suggestions.
[snip!]

Fani--Fradel, Frieda


Re: h-sig digest: February 14, 2002 #hungary

tom klein <bossman@...>
 

unfortunately, jewishgen's databases aren't very good at hungarian material (d-m soundex searches don't seem to understand hungarian orthography very well), and the given names database isn't any better.

it failed my very first test, "geza", which is a fairly common hungarian name, as well as "zoli", "pista", "bozsi", "rozsi", "janos", lacko", "aladar", "arpad", and of course, "tamas". (it's too late at night to be creative, so i just pulled a couple of familiar names >from amongst the cobwebs...) and yes, jews did have plenty of these non-biblical names.

as for the ones that are represented, "miksa" is given as translating to the yiddish "miksa" (not much help here), and without the english equivalent "maximillian", which i would have expected. likewise, "jeno" shows a yiddish equivalent of "yenne" (?), but doesn't give an english equivalent of "eugene", which i would have expected. the listing for "lajos" lists "layosh" as the hebrew and yiddish names, which doesn't seem right to me, at least not based on my experience. (in my case, "lajos" was "shlomo" in hebrew, and "simon" was "yehoshiyahu", to use just my two gfs for example.)

it would seem to me that this database was created by and for the "usual polish/russian" crowd. sigh...

regards,


....... tom klein, toronto

Moderator VK: Tom is correct that Esterson's database doesn't work very well for Hungarian names. I recommend the list by Jared Seuss at <http://www.horlacher.org/Hungary/Names.htm>

Subject: Given Names Database
From: Vivian Kahn <VKahn@kmort.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:21:57 -0800
X-Message-Number: 6

For more information on the secular and legal versions of Jewish
names, check out Gerald Esterson's Given Names Data Base at
<http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/GivenNames/>

Using the search feature I was able to find out, for example, that
Netti is a nickname for Netta and that other Yiddish forms of this
name are Nettchen and Nettel.


Re: h-sig digest: February 14, 2002 #hungary

tom klein <bossman@...>
 

i don't know for certain, but which operating system and which language is tom venetianer using on his computer?

some non-english systems may need extra characters (in addition to standard ascii), and there is no single standard for encoding those extra characters, which can cause confusion and problems.

there may be a preference somewhere to force messages to be sent as plain ascii, but that would have to be set on a case-by-case basis for each different user's configuration - not a fun task, and probably well outside the scope of this list.

a modest suggestion to the moderator: please "bounce" such messages back to the sender whenever you notice them. the senders are the ones best able to fix the message, plus this may encourage them to fix the root of the problem, by finding and changing the appropriate option.


....... tom klein, toronto

Subject: * long shot (correction From: Tom Venetianer
<tom.vene@uol.com.br> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 10:41:44 -0200
X-Message-Number: 4

It beats me why the JewishGen server "translated" the capital 'F'
into =46. So here are the corrections of the list I sent yesterday:

=46ISCH is FISCH =46elso:zsolcsa is Felso:zsolcsa and =46add is Fadd

Thanks

Moderator VK: This is not an uncommon problem. Can anyone explain?


Re: Hungarian counties #hungary

tom klein <bossman@...>
 

the short explanation is that "budapest" is really a city made up of two different cities, originally, "buda" and "pest", separated by the danube river. i believe there was an old jewish community in "obuda", but most of the modern development was in "pest", and people have made the distinction between the two.

the locals usually refer to "pest", except when speaking to foreigners, etc.

regards,


....... tom klein, toronto

Subject: Re: Hungarian counties From: Chaim Frenkel
<chaimf@pobox.com> Date: 13 Feb 2002 15:16:52 -0500 X-Message-Number:
11

I've also gotten a bit confused about town names. But seeing so many
town names pass by, I've come to the conclusion that the County name
(Megye in Hun.?) or very common prefixes either appended or dropped
from the name.
This makes me occasionally try both versions of a name when searching
on any of the online maps.

Would someone explain, Budapest being refered to as Pest?=20

(As in "he's a Pesti" or "he moved up to Pest")

Chaim Frenkel Brooklyn, NY chaimf@pobox.com


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Fwd: h-sig digest: February 14, 2002 #hungary

tom klein <bossman@...>
 

unfortunately, jewishgen's databases aren't very good at hungarian material (d-m soundex searches don't seem to understand hungarian orthography very well), and the given names database isn't any better.

it failed my very first test, "geza", which is a fairly common hungarian name, as well as "zoli", "pista", "bozsi", "rozsi", "janos", lacko", "aladar", "arpad", and of course, "tamas". (it's too late at night to be creative, so i just pulled a couple of familiar names >from amongst the cobwebs...) and yes, jews did have plenty of these non-biblical names.

as for the ones that are represented, "miksa" is given as translating to the yiddish "miksa" (not much help here), and without the english equivalent "maximillian", which i would have expected. likewise, "jeno" shows a yiddish equivalent of "yenne" (?), but doesn't give an english equivalent of "eugene", which i would have expected. the listing for "lajos" lists "layosh" as the hebrew and yiddish names, which doesn't seem right to me, at least not based on my experience. (in my case, "lajos" was "shlomo" in hebrew, and "simon" was "yehoshiyahu", to use just my two gfs for example.)

it would seem to me that this database was created by and for the "usual polish/russian" crowd. sigh...

regards,


....... tom klein, toronto

Moderator VK: Tom is correct that Esterson's database doesn't work very well for Hungarian names. I recommend the list by Jared Seuss at <http://www.horlacher.org/Hungary/Names.htm>

Subject: Given Names Database
From: Vivian Kahn <VKahn@kmort.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:21:57 -0800
X-Message-Number: 6

For more information on the secular and legal versions of Jewish
names, check out Gerald Esterson's Given Names Data Base at
<http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/GivenNames/>

Using the search feature I was able to find out, for example, that
Netti is a nickname for Netta and that other Yiddish forms of this
name are Nettchen and Nettel.


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Fwd: h-sig digest: February 14, 2002 #hungary

tom klein <bossman@...>
 

i don't know for certain, but which operating system and which language is tom venetianer using on his computer?

some non-english systems may need extra characters (in addition to standard ascii), and there is no single standard for encoding those extra characters, which can cause confusion and problems.

there may be a preference somewhere to force messages to be sent as plain ascii, but that would have to be set on a case-by-case basis for each different user's configuration - not a fun task, and probably well outside the scope of this list.

a modest suggestion to the moderator: please "bounce" such messages back to the sender whenever you notice them. the senders are the ones best able to fix the message, plus this may encourage them to fix the root of the problem, by finding and changing the appropriate option.


....... tom klein, toronto

Subject: * long shot (correction From: Tom Venetianer
<tom.vene@uol.com.br> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 10:41:44 -0200
X-Message-Number: 4

It beats me why the JewishGen server "translated" the capital 'F'
into =46. So here are the corrections of the list I sent yesterday:

=46ISCH is FISCH =46elso:zsolcsa is Felso:zsolcsa and =46add is Fadd

Thanks

Moderator VK: This is not an uncommon problem. Can anyone explain?


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Re: Hungarian counties #hungary

tom klein <bossman@...>
 

the short explanation is that "budapest" is really a city made up of two different cities, originally, "buda" and "pest", separated by the danube river. i believe there was an old jewish community in "obuda", but most of the modern development was in "pest", and people have made the distinction between the two.

the locals usually refer to "pest", except when speaking to foreigners, etc.

regards,


....... tom klein, toronto

Subject: Re: Hungarian counties From: Chaim Frenkel
<chaimf@pobox.com> Date: 13 Feb 2002 15:16:52 -0500 X-Message-Number:
11

I've also gotten a bit confused about town names. But seeing so many
town names pass by, I've come to the conclusion that the County name
(Megye in Hun.?) or very common prefixes either appended or dropped
from the name.
This makes me occasionally try both versions of a name when searching
on any of the online maps.

Would someone explain, Budapest being refered to as Pest?=20

(As in "he's a Pesti" or "he moved up to Pest")

Chaim Frenkel Brooklyn, NY chaimf@pobox.com


Re: Translation help requested #galicia

Robert Neu
 

Someone can probably do better, but here is a
rendering

Let us remember
the dragged away and martyr death
of the Jewish children of Eger
with their priceless blood

Robert Neu
--- Jerry Zeisler <jerryz@earthlink.net> wrote:

Dear H-Siggers,
I am hoping that someone will be able to translate
the following text. It is
engraved on one of two Holocaust memorials in the
cemetery in Eger, Hungary.
Thank you. Sorry for no accent marks.

Emlekez z zunk
Az 1944 junius ho 7-en artallanut
Elhurcolf es martirhalalt halt
Egri zsido gyermekekre
Draga vereinkre

Jerry Zeisler
Leesburg, Virginia USA
jzeisler@email.com


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Translation help requested #hungary

Robert Neu
 

Someone can probably do better, but here is a
rendering

Let us remember
the dragged away and martyr death
of the Jewish children of Eger
with their priceless blood

Robert Neu
--- Jerry Zeisler <jerryz@earthlink.net> wrote:

Dear H-Siggers,
I am hoping that someone will be able to translate
the following text. It is
engraved on one of two Holocaust memorials in the
cemetery in Eger, Hungary.
Thank you. Sorry for no accent marks.

Emlekez z zunk
Az 1944 junius ho 7-en artallanut
Elhurcolf es martirhalalt halt
Egri zsido gyermekekre
Draga vereinkre

Jerry Zeisler
Leesburg, Virginia USA
jzeisler@email.com


Re: Translation help requested #galicia

GilaMiriam Chait <gilamiriamchait@...>
 

Let us remember the innocent Jewish children of Eger,
our kith and kin, who were taken away on 7 June 1944
and died a martyr's death.

--- Jerry Zeisler <jerryz@earthlink.net> wrote: >
Dear H-Siggers,

I am hoping that someone will be able to translate
the following text. It is
engraved on one of two Holocaust memorials in the
cemetery in Eger, Hungary.
Thank you. Sorry for no accent marks.

Emlekez z zunk
Az 1944 junius ho 7-en artallanut
Elhurcolf es martirhalalt halt
Egri zsido gyermekekre
Draga vereinkre

Jerry Zeisler
Leesburg, Virginia USA
jzeisler@email.com


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Translation help requested #hungary

GilaMiriam Chait <gilamiriamchait@...>
 

Let us remember the innocent Jewish children of Eger,
our kith and kin, who were taken away on 7 June 1944
and died a martyr's death.

--- Jerry Zeisler <jerryz@earthlink.net> wrote: >
Dear H-Siggers,

I am hoping that someone will be able to translate
the following text. It is
engraved on one of two Holocaust memorials in the
cemetery in Eger, Hungary.
Thank you. Sorry for no accent marks.

Emlekez z zunk
Az 1944 junius ho 7-en artallanut
Elhurcolf es martirhalalt halt
Egri zsido gyermekekre
Draga vereinkre

Jerry Zeisler
Leesburg, Virginia USA
jzeisler@email.com


Max SCHWARTZ, Phila.- SSDI #hungary

Elizabeth S. Lourie <lourie@...>
 

I have in hand a copy of the application for Social Security of a Max
Schertzer SCHWARTZ who lived at 729 Spruce St. Phila. in 1941. Born 21
March 1883 in "Austria", son of "Benjimine" and "Rebbeca", this is not
the Max Schwartz I was looking for. If he belongs to your family,
please answer privately, with your mailing address, and I will be
happy to send it to you.

Elizabeth S. Lourie
Washington, DC

Researching: ROGOV, DUSHKIN, SABLONSKY, Vilijampole (Slobodka) &
Kaunas, Lithuania
LOURIE, Varena (Oran), Lithuania
ROSENBLUTH, Humenne, Slovakia
SZYRETT, Falesti, Moldova
SCHWARTZ, EHRENREICH, Hungary


Hungarian Judaica #hungary

Vivian Kahn
 

H-SIG Members,

Even if you can't find anything of specific relevance to your family
history, the list of items at http://judaica.hypermart.net/221.jpg is
just fascinating. I have no financial interest whatsoever in this
operation.

Vivian


Hungary SIG #Hungary Max SCHWARTZ, Phila.- SSDI #hungary

Elizabeth S. Lourie <lourie@...>
 

I have in hand a copy of the application for Social Security of a Max
Schertzer SCHWARTZ who lived at 729 Spruce St. Phila. in 1941. Born 21
March 1883 in "Austria", son of "Benjimine" and "Rebbeca", this is not
the Max Schwartz I was looking for. If he belongs to your family,
please answer privately, with your mailing address, and I will be
happy to send it to you.

Elizabeth S. Lourie
Washington, DC

Researching: ROGOV, DUSHKIN, SABLONSKY, Vilijampole (Slobodka) &
Kaunas, Lithuania
LOURIE, Varena (Oran), Lithuania
ROSENBLUTH, Humenne, Slovakia
SZYRETT, Falesti, Moldova
SCHWARTZ, EHRENREICH, Hungary


Hungary SIG #Hungary Hungarian Judaica #hungary

Vivian Kahn
 

H-SIG Members,

Even if you can't find anything of specific relevance to your family
history, the list of items at http://judaica.hypermart.net/221.jpg is
just fascinating. I have no financial interest whatsoever in this
operation.

Vivian


Jewish Community of Metz (Lorraine, France) #rabbinic

Pascal FAUSTINI <pascal.faustini@...>
 

[Moderator's Note: This message is distributed under our policy
of allowing a single post to publicize a new book or product of
genealogical interest. My apologies for the unreadable version
of this message sent previously]

Dear Rav-Sig members,

I have written a book entitled "La communaute juive de Metz et ses
familles, 1565-1665." The book was published at the end of October
2001. I am selling it and distributing it by myself. If you are
interested, please send me an e-mailto:<pascal.faustini@free.fr>
or snail-mail me at

M. Pascal Faustini
48, rue Paul Albert
57 100 =96 Thionville
France

The book, written in French, and consisting of 284 pages
dimensioned 21 x 29.7 cm, has three parts:

- History and sources: a trial among two Jewish families
(1563-1581) or how the first Jews settled in Metz; the first two
families: Cahen and Grotwohl (>from Frankfurt); the beginning of
the new community (1567-1620); the houses where they lived before
the ghetto; the main sources: lists of 1595, 1621, 1632, 1637,
1660 and 1662; some notes >from the memoirs of Asher Levy of
Reichshoffen; the list of the Jews who died during the Plague
in the year 1636; new data regarding the old Memorbuch of Metz
(beginning in 1610).
(Many copies of original documents are included.)

- 642 notarized acts summarized, with copy (by scanner) and
translation of the Jewish signatures.

- About 75 families, with their genealogy and some historical
background: AUGSBOURG/OCHEMBOURG, BIRIER, BONN(E), BRISAC, CAHEN
(10 families), CARLEBAC, CREHANGE, DALSACE, DENNERY, EMMERICH,
ENSHEIM, ETLING, FAULQUEMONT, FOULD, FRAN(C)K, FRANCFORT/ALCAN/
ROTHSCHILD, FRIBOURG, GOMPERZ, GOUGENHEIM, GROTWOHL/GRODVOL,
HAGUENAU, HALPHEN, HANAU, ISRA=CBL, JOTEM, LAMBERT-WILLSTATT, LAZARE,
LEVY (10 families), LEVY-ETTINGEN, LIMBOURG, LOUANE/LOANS, MAY,
MAYENCE, MORHANGE, NANCY, NORDON, OPPENHEIM/OPPENOM, OULIF,
RAMBACH, REINS/RHEINS/RHENS, ROTTEMBOURG/RODEMBOURG, SAINT-AVOLD,
SCHWAB, SCHWEICH, SPIRE/LEVY-SPIRE, TRENEL, TREVES, WALLICH, WERTH,
WETZLAR, WINTZENHEIM, WIMPHEN, WITTLICH, WORMS, ZEY/ZAY. Some of
these are Rabbinical Families: BONN, CAHEN, CREHANGE, FOULD, LEVY
(a few lines), SAINT-AVOLD, SCHWEICH, LEVY-SPIRE, WERTH, WORMS,
ZEY.

You may find a review of the book by Pierre-Andre Meyer in the
Revue de Genealogie Juive, No. 68, Winter 2001 (in French). There
is also a short notice/review by Peter Stein in Maajan - Die
Quelle, No. 61, December 2001 (in German).

The price, including postage for USA or Israel addresses, is 44.20
Euros if you choose quick delivery (about one week) or 37.50 Euros
if you choose regular delivery (much longer than a week). For
European countries, the corresponding prices are 39 Euros and 35.80
Euros. Please don't send a cheque (because of the charges and
taxes) but contact me to wire the funds directly >from bank to bank.
My IBAN (International Bank Account Number) is:
FR76 1027 8059 0000 0200 2464 052.

Pascal Faustini
Thionville, France


Rabbinic Genealogy SIG #Rabbinic Jewish Community of Metz (Lorraine, France) #rabbinic

Pascal FAUSTINI <pascal.faustini@...>
 

[Moderator's Note: This message is distributed under our policy
of allowing a single post to publicize a new book or product of
genealogical interest. My apologies for the unreadable version
of this message sent previously]

Dear Rav-Sig members,

I have written a book entitled "La communaute juive de Metz et ses
familles, 1565-1665." The book was published at the end of October
2001. I am selling it and distributing it by myself. If you are
interested, please send me an e-mailto:<pascal.faustini@free.fr>
or snail-mail me at

M. Pascal Faustini
48, rue Paul Albert
57 100 =96 Thionville
France

The book, written in French, and consisting of 284 pages
dimensioned 21 x 29.7 cm, has three parts:

- History and sources: a trial among two Jewish families
(1563-1581) or how the first Jews settled in Metz; the first two
families: Cahen and Grotwohl (>from Frankfurt); the beginning of
the new community (1567-1620); the houses where they lived before
the ghetto; the main sources: lists of 1595, 1621, 1632, 1637,
1660 and 1662; some notes >from the memoirs of Asher Levy of
Reichshoffen; the list of the Jews who died during the Plague
in the year 1636; new data regarding the old Memorbuch of Metz
(beginning in 1610).
(Many copies of original documents are included.)

- 642 notarized acts summarized, with copy (by scanner) and
translation of the Jewish signatures.

- About 75 families, with their genealogy and some historical
background: AUGSBOURG/OCHEMBOURG, BIRIER, BONN(E), BRISAC, CAHEN
(10 families), CARLEBAC, CREHANGE, DALSACE, DENNERY, EMMERICH,
ENSHEIM, ETLING, FAULQUEMONT, FOULD, FRAN(C)K, FRANCFORT/ALCAN/
ROTHSCHILD, FRIBOURG, GOMPERZ, GOUGENHEIM, GROTWOHL/GRODVOL,
HAGUENAU, HALPHEN, HANAU, ISRA=CBL, JOTEM, LAMBERT-WILLSTATT, LAZARE,
LEVY (10 families), LEVY-ETTINGEN, LIMBOURG, LOUANE/LOANS, MAY,
MAYENCE, MORHANGE, NANCY, NORDON, OPPENHEIM/OPPENOM, OULIF,
RAMBACH, REINS/RHEINS/RHENS, ROTTEMBOURG/RODEMBOURG, SAINT-AVOLD,
SCHWAB, SCHWEICH, SPIRE/LEVY-SPIRE, TRENEL, TREVES, WALLICH, WERTH,
WETZLAR, WINTZENHEIM, WIMPHEN, WITTLICH, WORMS, ZEY/ZAY. Some of
these are Rabbinical Families: BONN, CAHEN, CREHANGE, FOULD, LEVY
(a few lines), SAINT-AVOLD, SCHWEICH, LEVY-SPIRE, WERTH, WORMS,
ZEY.

You may find a review of the book by Pierre-Andre Meyer in the
Revue de Genealogie Juive, No. 68, Winter 2001 (in French). There
is also a short notice/review by Peter Stein in Maajan - Die
Quelle, No. 61, December 2001 (in German).

The price, including postage for USA or Israel addresses, is 44.20
Euros if you choose quick delivery (about one week) or 37.50 Euros
if you choose regular delivery (much longer than a week). For
European countries, the corresponding prices are 39 Euros and 35.80
Euros. Please don't send a cheque (because of the charges and
taxes) but contact me to wire the funds directly >from bank to bank.
My IBAN (International Bank Account Number) is:
FR76 1027 8059 0000 0200 2464 052.

Pascal Faustini
Thionville, France


Re: Cuban Jews-Ship Travel #general

Daniel Kazez <dkazez@...>
 

A large Jewish population was located in Cuba. My sister and I were born
in Havana.
....
Any lists available for Cuba to Florida ?
There is a wonderful (and little-known) list showing arrivals to Florida,
Georgia, Alabama, and South Carolina, for 1890-1924. Allen County Public
Library has it (Fort Wayne, Indiana USA; 219-421-1200;
http://www.acpl.lib.in.us/). On these microfilms, I found 5 different
crossings for my ALHADEF family. All of this material is on a collection of
under 10 microfilms. Here is an example:

http://userpages.wittenberg.edu/dkazez/fam/pho/AlhJac-1918pass.jpg

Dan
...
Daniel Kazez <dkazez@mail.wittenberg.edu>
Springfield, Ohio USA
Poland: TALMAN, ENGLANDER, JURKIEWICZ, STRAUSBERG, KIFER, CZAPNIK,
BRODA, OFMAN, ZYLBERBERG, KRZEPITSKI, and BIDA
Ukraine: OBERMAN-HOBERMAN-GUBERMAN, LISS, SOBLE-SOBEL, STEIN, AXMAN
Turkey: KAZEZ-KAZES, ALHADEF-ELHADEF, FRESKO-FRESCO, HABIB, DEVIDAS-DE VIDAS
http://userpages.wittenberg.edu/dkazez/fam/ent/fam.html


List of small business and owners in the Bukowina #general

Charles Mahler
 

Hello Everybody,
Just sharing the URL of an interesting website for those looking for
ancestors in the Bukowina:
http://66.197.161.62/Archiv.html with quite a list of Jewish names
of small business and owners in the Bukowina.
from the book Archiv-Auskuenfte ueber die Firmen Galiziens und der
Bukowina (Krakau 1914-15)
Best regards
Charles Mahler
Searching: MAHLER;MARGULIES;LICHTMANN;INTRATOR;POSER.