Date   

Re: NARA Question #general

joe <joe@...>
 

Hello Bea,
To find the LDS microfilm number you need start by doing a place search
for Massachusetts in the Family History Library Catalog...

http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp

Then look for this topic: "Massachusetts - Census - 1910" and click on
it. Then click the title, then "view film notes." Then look for the
county, in this case Suffolk, and you'll see the NARA roll number with
corresponding FHL number.

At the FHL in Salt Lake City the census microfilm cabinets are arranged
by census year, then state - the microfilm rolls are pretty easy to find.

Good luck with your search.

Regards,
Joe Beine
Denver, CO

beatrice swart wrote:

I found the 1910 Census for my father in law, where it
gives me the series number, the Roll #, such as
Series: T624
Roll: 619
Part: 3
Page 1008
Year: 1910

I am going to Salt Lake City and would like to know
how to convert the numbers to the LDS numbers that I
need.

Can anyone help me?

Bea SWART
Tamarac, Fl
bswart33321@...


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: NARA Question #general

joe <joe@...>
 

Hello Bea,
To find the LDS microfilm number you need start by doing a place search
for Massachusetts in the Family History Library Catalog...

http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp

Then look for this topic: "Massachusetts - Census - 1910" and click on
it. Then click the title, then "view film notes." Then look for the
county, in this case Suffolk, and you'll see the NARA roll number with
corresponding FHL number.

At the FHL in Salt Lake City the census microfilm cabinets are arranged
by census year, then state - the microfilm rolls are pretty easy to find.

Good luck with your search.

Regards,
Joe Beine
Denver, CO

beatrice swart wrote:

I found the 1910 Census for my father in law, where it
gives me the series number, the Roll #, such as
Series: T624
Roll: 619
Part: 3
Page 1008
Year: 1910

I am going to Salt Lake City and would like to know
how to convert the numbers to the LDS numbers that I
need.

Can anyone help me?

Bea SWART
Tamarac, Fl
bswart33321@...


Detroit-COHN/COHEN/COHANE siblings #general

S. Harris <jewishgen@...>
 

So far as I can tell, most of my Litvak COHEN family (originally
WORSHOVITZ) came to Detroit, Michigan and stayed long enough only to get
the train to Des Moines, Iowa.

One member who remained in Detroit was Judah H. COHN (a WORSHOVITZ
who took the name COHN, rather than COHEN).

I know that Judah and his wife, the former Libbie STERNFELD had a
son named Louis. An attorney, Louis was born in Detroit on January 18,
1888 died in Detroit on November 07, 1958.

Louis, who later changed his surname >from COHN to COHANE, formed
the Detroit law firm of Cohane, Rhodes, Garvett & Frankel. I have just
learned that he had 8 brothers and sisters (courtesy of the 1910 census)
and would like to know their names and perhaps connect with their
children/grandchildren.

Here are references I have found for Judah:

1885 Detroit City Directory:
Cohn, Judah h. clergyman h 80 Mullett

1891 Detroit City Directory:
Cohn, Rev. Judah H. h 105 Mullett
Cohn, Henry student bds 105 Mullett (Could be Louis' older
brother?)

1895 Detroit City Directory:
Cohn, Judah H. grocer 354 Hastings h same

Judah H. Cohn is listed in the 1910 U.S. Federal Census for
Detroit as being Age 63, working as a "Clergyman-Jewish" and living in
Ward 3 at 195 Winder (?) Street, in Wayne County, Detroit with Libbie and
Louis. The couple, married about 1869, are listed as the parents of 9
children, 7 living, so I presume Louis was the youngest child since he,
at 22, was the only one living with his parents.

Louis married another attorney, the former Regene FREUND, (born in
New York on October 16, 1899 and who died, probably in New York)
December 09, 1924. The couple was buried in New York.

Louis and Regene apparently didn't have any children.

I can't very well approach the Michigan Health Department's Vital
Statistics Division with a request for birth certificates of Judah and
Libbie's children without knowing the children's names, birthdates or
even if they were born in the U.S.

I think Louis came to America about 1871 but my copy of the 1910
census entry is difficult to read.

I've already checked The Jews of Detroit and spoken with its author.
He's stumped too.

Any help >from someone familiar with this family and how I might
contact its descendants would be appreciated.

Stacy Harris
Nashville, TN USA


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Detroit-COHN/COHEN/COHANE siblings #general

S. Harris <jewishgen@...>
 

So far as I can tell, most of my Litvak COHEN family (originally
WORSHOVITZ) came to Detroit, Michigan and stayed long enough only to get
the train to Des Moines, Iowa.

One member who remained in Detroit was Judah H. COHN (a WORSHOVITZ
who took the name COHN, rather than COHEN).

I know that Judah and his wife, the former Libbie STERNFELD had a
son named Louis. An attorney, Louis was born in Detroit on January 18,
1888 died in Detroit on November 07, 1958.

Louis, who later changed his surname >from COHN to COHANE, formed
the Detroit law firm of Cohane, Rhodes, Garvett & Frankel. I have just
learned that he had 8 brothers and sisters (courtesy of the 1910 census)
and would like to know their names and perhaps connect with their
children/grandchildren.

Here are references I have found for Judah:

1885 Detroit City Directory:
Cohn, Judah h. clergyman h 80 Mullett

1891 Detroit City Directory:
Cohn, Rev. Judah H. h 105 Mullett
Cohn, Henry student bds 105 Mullett (Could be Louis' older
brother?)

1895 Detroit City Directory:
Cohn, Judah H. grocer 354 Hastings h same

Judah H. Cohn is listed in the 1910 U.S. Federal Census for
Detroit as being Age 63, working as a "Clergyman-Jewish" and living in
Ward 3 at 195 Winder (?) Street, in Wayne County, Detroit with Libbie and
Louis. The couple, married about 1869, are listed as the parents of 9
children, 7 living, so I presume Louis was the youngest child since he,
at 22, was the only one living with his parents.

Louis married another attorney, the former Regene FREUND, (born in
New York on October 16, 1899 and who died, probably in New York)
December 09, 1924. The couple was buried in New York.

Louis and Regene apparently didn't have any children.

I can't very well approach the Michigan Health Department's Vital
Statistics Division with a request for birth certificates of Judah and
Libbie's children without knowing the children's names, birthdates or
even if they were born in the U.S.

I think Louis came to America about 1871 but my copy of the 1910
census entry is difficult to read.

I've already checked The Jews of Detroit and spoken with its author.
He's stumped too.

Any help >from someone familiar with this family and how I might
contact its descendants would be appreciated.

Stacy Harris
Nashville, TN USA


Is there a cemetery in Bratzlav Ukraine? #general

Michael Goldstein <michael@...>
 

A friend of mine is traveling to the Ukraine and says that there is a
Jewish cemetery in Bratzlav (Brazlaw) Ukraine (4850 2857). I find no
reference to Bratzlav or a cemetery in the International Jewish Cemetery
Project. Is there one or does anyone know where Jews >from Bratzlav
Ukraine were buried?
Thanks

Michael Goldstein
Jerusalem, Israel

Researching:
ORTENBERG, STUPAK & PEKELIS of Ruzhin, Soloviyevka, Brusilov in Kiev
Gubernia,
ESTERSON, GILDENGERSH, MILLER of Kobryn, Brest and Grodno,
KROLIK of Parysow and Warsaw Poland; WIERNIK of Pultusk, Poland.
GOLDSTEIN of Bessarabia & Toronto.
MOSHKEVITCH & MANUSOFF of Nikapol & Yekaterinoslav Ukraine

Home Page: http://www.ourfamilyroots.net
View Family List at:
http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=9224
Family Treemaker Homepage:
http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/g/o/l/Michael--Goldstein/


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Is there a cemetery in Bratzlav Ukraine? #general

Michael Goldstein <michael@...>
 

A friend of mine is traveling to the Ukraine and says that there is a
Jewish cemetery in Bratzlav (Brazlaw) Ukraine (4850 2857). I find no
reference to Bratzlav or a cemetery in the International Jewish Cemetery
Project. Is there one or does anyone know where Jews >from Bratzlav
Ukraine were buried?
Thanks

Michael Goldstein
Jerusalem, Israel

Researching:
ORTENBERG, STUPAK & PEKELIS of Ruzhin, Soloviyevka, Brusilov in Kiev
Gubernia,
ESTERSON, GILDENGERSH, MILLER of Kobryn, Brest and Grodno,
KROLIK of Parysow and Warsaw Poland; WIERNIK of Pultusk, Poland.
GOLDSTEIN of Bessarabia & Toronto.
MOSHKEVITCH & MANUSOFF of Nikapol & Yekaterinoslav Ukraine

Home Page: http://www.ourfamilyroots.net
View Family List at:
http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=9224
Family Treemaker Homepage:
http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/g/o/l/Michael--Goldstein/


Re: Details of Conference and Report of Progress #rabbinic

ROBERT WEISS
 

On 2004.07.14, Yehuda Herskowitz <seforimlover@...> writes:

5. Using a variety of sources. These include;

a. Standard genealogical works.
b. Some fantastic work has been done by Pavel Yakobi and Eliezer
Rivlin. Available in the National Library in Jerusalem and the
Central Zionist Archives.
Is Pavel Yakobi an Israeli transliteration into English of Judge
Paul Jacoby's name written in Hebrew? Or is this a different
person?

Which works are found where?

Bob Weiss
RWeissJGS@...


Rabbinic Genealogy SIG #Rabbinic Re: Details of Conference and Report of Progress #rabbinic

ROBERT WEISS
 

On 2004.07.14, Yehuda Herskowitz <seforimlover@...> writes:

5. Using a variety of sources. These include;

a. Standard genealogical works.
b. Some fantastic work has been done by Pavel Yakobi and Eliezer
Rivlin. Available in the National Library in Jerusalem and the
Central Zionist Archives.
Is Pavel Yakobi an Israeli transliteration into English of Judge
Paul Jacoby's name written in Hebrew? Or is this a different
person?

Which works are found where?

Bob Weiss
RWeissJGS@...


R' Solomon GORDON & descendants #rabbinic

LR <lreich@...>
 

On 2004.07.16, Alexandra Alznauer <petiealznauer@...>
enquired on this forum:

I am looking for any information concerning Rabbi Solomon GORDON
and/or his descendants.

Rabbi Solomon GORDON was A.B.D. (Chief Rabbi and the Head of the
Rabbinical Court of) Drushkieniki (today Druskininkai), Lithuania,
and Yelenovo, Belarus(?). He may have attended the Telsiai Yehiva.
His father-in-law was Smuel Naftali Hirsh EPSHTEYN (LEVIN-EPSTEIN)
[...]
If *any* of this sounds familiar, particularly the GORDON family
This Rabbi GORDON has a brief listing in the Hebrew biographical
dictionary "Oheley Shem" of living Rabbonim, which was published in
Pinsk in 1912. (It even gives postal addresses). No details of
descent are given. It does say that he was born in 1850 and that the
family was related to that of the author of Eshel Avrohom (a
commentary on Shulchan Aroch). It mentions the Rabbis >from whom he
received Semicha.

Leslie Reich


Rabbinic Genealogy SIG #Rabbinic R' Solomon GORDON & descendants #rabbinic

LR <lreich@...>
 

On 2004.07.16, Alexandra Alznauer <petiealznauer@...>
enquired on this forum:

I am looking for any information concerning Rabbi Solomon GORDON
and/or his descendants.

Rabbi Solomon GORDON was A.B.D. (Chief Rabbi and the Head of the
Rabbinical Court of) Drushkieniki (today Druskininkai), Lithuania,
and Yelenovo, Belarus(?). He may have attended the Telsiai Yehiva.
His father-in-law was Smuel Naftali Hirsh EPSHTEYN (LEVIN-EPSTEIN)
[...]
If *any* of this sounds familiar, particularly the GORDON family
This Rabbi GORDON has a brief listing in the Hebrew biographical
dictionary "Oheley Shem" of living Rabbonim, which was published in
Pinsk in 1912. (It even gives postal addresses). No details of
descent are given. It does say that he was born in 1850 and that the
family was related to that of the author of Eshel Avrohom (a
commentary on Shulchan Aroch). It mentions the Rabbis >from whom he
received Semicha.

Leslie Reich


Ungvar cemetery. #hungary

mimisimon@...
 

Hello Hun-Siggers,
Would anyone know if Jews >from Ordarma, also known
as Jovra (now Storozhnitsa, Ukraine), would be buried
in the Ungvar (Uzhgorod) cemetery? I am interested
because of the mention of the Ungvar cemetery
register. Ordarma, to the best of my knowledge, was a
small village very close to Ungvar.
Regards,
Mimi (Weiss) Simon
Teaneck, NJ


WEISS - Ordarma, Hungary (Storozhnitsa, Ukraine); East
Pittsburgh, North Braddock, McKeesport, and Rankin, PA
ROTH - Olaszliszka, Hungary; Komloska, Hungary; Ft.
Wayne, Ind., East Pittsburgh and Braddock, PA
KLEIN - Keked, Hungary; Turtle Creek, PA
BLASS - Hungary; Youngstown and Sandusky, OH; Mt.
Lebanon, PA
GOLDBERGER - Hungary; Ft. Wayne, Ind.


Notice of Resignation #rabbinic

seforimlover
 

Due to differences of opinion, I am hereby submitting
my resignation as Coordinator of RavSIG, effective
immediately.

Yehuda Herskowitz


Hungary SIG #Hungary Ungvar cemetery. #hungary

mimisimon@...
 

Hello Hun-Siggers,
Would anyone know if Jews >from Ordarma, also known
as Jovra (now Storozhnitsa, Ukraine), would be buried
in the Ungvar (Uzhgorod) cemetery? I am interested
because of the mention of the Ungvar cemetery
register. Ordarma, to the best of my knowledge, was a
small village very close to Ungvar.
Regards,
Mimi (Weiss) Simon
Teaneck, NJ


WEISS - Ordarma, Hungary (Storozhnitsa, Ukraine); East
Pittsburgh, North Braddock, McKeesport, and Rankin, PA
ROTH - Olaszliszka, Hungary; Komloska, Hungary; Ft.
Wayne, Ind., East Pittsburgh and Braddock, PA
KLEIN - Keked, Hungary; Turtle Creek, PA
BLASS - Hungary; Youngstown and Sandusky, OH; Mt.
Lebanon, PA
GOLDBERGER - Hungary; Ft. Wayne, Ind.


Rabbinic Genealogy SIG #Rabbinic Notice of Resignation #rabbinic

seforimlover
 

Due to differences of opinion, I am hereby submitting
my resignation as Coordinator of RavSIG, effective
immediately.

Yehuda Herskowitz


Was anyone of you enrolled in the Erzsebet Izraelita Elemi Iskola #hungary

Viviana Grosz-Gluckman <grosz_chai@...>
 

In respond to Gisselle's message below

Was anyone of you enrolled in the Erzsebet Izraelita
Elemi Iskola
Miskolc
school in Miskolc, Hungary in the year 1932? Or do you
know anybody who
could have been enrolled at that time in this school?
I cannot confirm this but it is very likely that my
father's brother, who must've been 10/11 years old at
the time, was enrolled in the Jewish school in
Miskolc. Was there more than one school?

Do you have any school photographs of 1932 or earlier?
My father must've graduated >from the (Jewish)Gymnasium
(hisghschool equivalent I assume) in 1932. Do you or
anyone in the list have photographs of that time?

Viviana Grosz-Gluckman Springfield, NJ REsearching
Grosz/Miskolc/Tallya/Golop; Ilkovich/Kassa


Hungary SIG #Hungary Was anyone of you enrolled in the Erzsebet Izraelita Elemi Iskola #hungary

Viviana Grosz-Gluckman <grosz_chai@...>
 

In respond to Gisselle's message below

Was anyone of you enrolled in the Erzsebet Izraelita
Elemi Iskola
Miskolc
school in Miskolc, Hungary in the year 1932? Or do you
know anybody who
could have been enrolled at that time in this school?
I cannot confirm this but it is very likely that my
father's brother, who must've been 10/11 years old at
the time, was enrolled in the Jewish school in
Miskolc. Was there more than one school?

Do you have any school photographs of 1932 or earlier?
My father must've graduated >from the (Jewish)Gymnasium
(hisghschool equivalent I assume) in 1932. Do you or
anyone in the list have photographs of that time?

Viviana Grosz-Gluckman Springfield, NJ REsearching
Grosz/Miskolc/Tallya/Golop; Ilkovich/Kassa


Re: Budapest January 15 1945 #hungary

Patricia J Weisshaus <patjw28@...>
 

I was in Budapest during the period referred to in the h-sig note. I lived=
=20
in a Swedish-protected building, close enough to the Danube River to see=20
the bloody ice-floes on the river and even the nyilas (Hungarian Nazi)=20
thugs driving groups of people down to the river bank. I cannot identify=
=20
any individuals since I was careful not to be found too close to any of=20
these activities. I did go into the city center during late December=20
1944, looking for members of my family who lived on Terez Korut and during=
=20
this escapade I was almost arrested by a gendarme. While the gendarme and=
=20
I were talking in the middle of Terez Korut I glanced at the open gate of a=
=20
house behind which there were many people milling around. They looked like=
=20
people who have been arrested, under guard. The gendarme let me go and I=20
got away. Moments later I found out that the family members I was looking=
=20
for had been taken away in a truck several nights before, and I never found=
=20
them again. I got back to my building and soon after this, probably in=20
the first week of January 1945, I escaped towards the Russian line, a few=20
blocks away, and survived to tell this story. The Pest side of the city=20
was cleared of Germans by Jan. 8, l945. The fighting in Buda went on for=20
weeks. As far as I know, January 15 has no special significance, at least=
=20
not to me.

At 02:00 PM 7/18/2004, bodziony@... wrote:
Dear Genners,

Is anyone of you contemporary witness and survivor of the massacres=
executed
by the Hungarian nyilas troops in Budapest by the time of January 15 1945,
or could someone tell me where I can do some research on what happened on
that day?

I would like to write the same text in Hungarian too, because some=
Hungarian
readers in this mailinglist might have limited knowledge of English:

Van =D6n=F6k k=F6z=F6tt olyan tanuja es tulel=F6je a Budapesten 1945 januar=
15.-en a
nyilasok altal t=F6rtent =F6ld=F6klesnek? Vagy megmondhatna valaki hol=
kutathatnek
az ezen a napon t=F6rtentek utan?

Thank you very much,

Giselle Bodziony

Moderator: Please tell us where you are located. It will help to=20
identify resources that could help with your research.


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Budapest January 15 1945 #hungary

Patricia J Weisshaus <patjw28@...>
 

I was in Budapest during the period referred to in the h-sig note. I lived=
=20
in a Swedish-protected building, close enough to the Danube River to see=20
the bloody ice-floes on the river and even the nyilas (Hungarian Nazi)=20
thugs driving groups of people down to the river bank. I cannot identify=
=20
any individuals since I was careful not to be found too close to any of=20
these activities. I did go into the city center during late December=20
1944, looking for members of my family who lived on Terez Korut and during=
=20
this escapade I was almost arrested by a gendarme. While the gendarme and=
=20
I were talking in the middle of Terez Korut I glanced at the open gate of a=
=20
house behind which there were many people milling around. They looked like=
=20
people who have been arrested, under guard. The gendarme let me go and I=20
got away. Moments later I found out that the family members I was looking=
=20
for had been taken away in a truck several nights before, and I never found=
=20
them again. I got back to my building and soon after this, probably in=20
the first week of January 1945, I escaped towards the Russian line, a few=20
blocks away, and survived to tell this story. The Pest side of the city=20
was cleared of Germans by Jan. 8, l945. The fighting in Buda went on for=20
weeks. As far as I know, January 15 has no special significance, at least=
=20
not to me.

At 02:00 PM 7/18/2004, bodziony@... wrote:
Dear Genners,

Is anyone of you contemporary witness and survivor of the massacres=
executed
by the Hungarian nyilas troops in Budapest by the time of January 15 1945,
or could someone tell me where I can do some research on what happened on
that day?

I would like to write the same text in Hungarian too, because some=
Hungarian
readers in this mailinglist might have limited knowledge of English:

Van =D6n=F6k k=F6z=F6tt olyan tanuja es tulel=F6je a Budapesten 1945 januar=
15.-en a
nyilasok altal t=F6rtent =F6ld=F6klesnek? Vagy megmondhatna valaki hol=
kutathatnek
az ezen a napon t=F6rtentek utan?

Thank you very much,

Giselle Bodziony

Moderator: Please tell us where you are located. It will help to=20
identify resources that could help with your research.


*re: Newbie for Hungary #hungary

Tom Venetianer <tom.vene@...>
 

Hello Jeff,

The answer for the places you are searching was already given by the moderator. As for the family names you are looking for, they certainly were written in Hungarian the same way you spelled them. Maybe "Riederman" would be spelled "Riderman". "Ornstein" is probably correct but keep in mind that the English 's' in Hungarian is spelled 'sz' and only the English 'sh' is spelled as 's'. But that means that "Ornstein" was the Hungarian correct spelling.

The problem is that after about 1870, in an attempt to assimilate, many (and I stress the word *many*) Jewish Hungarian families *Hungarized* their names. And the changes were *really drastic*. An example: a family previously called "Hellschein" became "Takacs" (== forger). Or a "Kohn" could become "Kovacsos" and so on. Thus it could well be that you won't find your folks unless you discover such family name changes.

Good luck
Tom

At 01:00 -0500 18.07.2004, H-SIG digest wrote:
Subject: Newbie for Hungary
From: "Jeff Malka" <malkajef@...>
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 18:32:59 -0400
X-Message-Number: 12

I am at the start of my Hungary research and would like some advice. I am
researching the

RIEDERMAN family of Turia Remete (near Perecin and Uzhorod) and the

ORNSTEIN/ORENSTEIN family of Komoroew (near Szerednye).

Both villages were Hungarian at the beginning of the 20th century and these
families spoke Magyar and listed themselves as Hungarian. Does JewishGen
have useful databases for these shtetlach? Anything useful I should look for
at the Mormons? I unfortunately cannot read Hungarian and one of my early
tasks would obviously need to be to find out what "Riederman" and "Ornstein"
look like when written in Hungarian registers.

Any and all advice greatly appreciated especially where the archives for
these 2 towns would be located.

Thank you.

Jeff Malka
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
Tom Venetianer <mailto:tom.vene@...>
Sao Paulo - Brazil


Hungary SIG #Hungary *re: Newbie for Hungary #hungary

Tom Venetianer <tom.vene@...>
 

Hello Jeff,

The answer for the places you are searching was already given by the moderator. As for the family names you are looking for, they certainly were written in Hungarian the same way you spelled them. Maybe "Riederman" would be spelled "Riderman". "Ornstein" is probably correct but keep in mind that the English 's' in Hungarian is spelled 'sz' and only the English 'sh' is spelled as 's'. But that means that "Ornstein" was the Hungarian correct spelling.

The problem is that after about 1870, in an attempt to assimilate, many (and I stress the word *many*) Jewish Hungarian families *Hungarized* their names. And the changes were *really drastic*. An example: a family previously called "Hellschein" became "Takacs" (== forger). Or a "Kohn" could become "Kovacsos" and so on. Thus it could well be that you won't find your folks unless you discover such family name changes.

Good luck
Tom

At 01:00 -0500 18.07.2004, H-SIG digest wrote:
Subject: Newbie for Hungary
From: "Jeff Malka" <malkajef@...>
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 18:32:59 -0400
X-Message-Number: 12

I am at the start of my Hungary research and would like some advice. I am
researching the

RIEDERMAN family of Turia Remete (near Perecin and Uzhorod) and the

ORNSTEIN/ORENSTEIN family of Komoroew (near Szerednye).

Both villages were Hungarian at the beginning of the 20th century and these
families spoke Magyar and listed themselves as Hungarian. Does JewishGen
have useful databases for these shtetlach? Anything useful I should look for
at the Mormons? I unfortunately cannot read Hungarian and one of my early
tasks would obviously need to be to find out what "Riederman" and "Ornstein"
look like when written in Hungarian registers.

Any and all advice greatly appreciated especially where the archives for
these 2 towns would be located.

Thank you.

Jeff Malka
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
Tom Venetianer <mailto:tom.vene@...>
Sao Paulo - Brazil