Date   

Re: Sonnenschein's in Budapest in 1870's #hungary

BruceKitty@...
 

Is by any coincidence this Sonnenschein family related to the film of 3 or 4
yrs ago, about the Hungarian Sonnenschein family? (Sunshine)
Kitty Sauber


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Sonnenschein's in Budapest in 1870's #hungary

BruceKitty@...
 

Is by any coincidence this Sonnenschein family related to the film of 3 or 4
yrs ago, about the Hungarian Sonnenschein family? (Sunshine)
Kitty Sauber


Re: Name Betreas = Erzebet #hungary

BruceKitty@...
 

Elizabeth can be derivation of ERZABET, also the last syllable can provide
Betreas (which in English is spelled as Beatrice).. it is difficult to
determine what triggers many
name changes. One of the plausible possibilities is an attempt at
americanizing, another
could have occurred at time of arrival processing where the clerk was stumped
with
"Erzebet or ERZABET: due to possible language differences and communication
between
the Port of entry Clerk who spoke only English, and Erzabet who spoke only
Hungarian..
He may have dubbed her Betreas. Another possibility, could Betreas have
been her
middle name which she preferred to use. Someone may have said to her, "you
look more like a Betreas" and so liked this name...Could Betreas be a
different person >from Erzabet?
It is interesting to ponder what life forces impact on individuals that
decades later
confound descendants. Logic is often difficult to fathom in information that
is gotten in fragments and word of mouth.
Possibly, in your searches of documents you may one day come across
notations or
papers that will explain.
Good luck in your search,
Kitty Sauber


Re: Join the Discussion!< #hungary

BruceKitty@...
 

To Maureen Tighe-Brown,
I have missed reading your helpful and informative contributions. I wish
you would not permit a few poorly informed "nay sayers" to deprive the rest of us of
your knowldege and insights.
Kitty Sauber NY


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Name Betreas = Erzebet #hungary

BruceKitty@...
 

Elizabeth can be derivation of ERZABET, also the last syllable can provide
Betreas (which in English is spelled as Beatrice).. it is difficult to
determine what triggers many
name changes. One of the plausible possibilities is an attempt at
americanizing, another
could have occurred at time of arrival processing where the clerk was stumped
with
"Erzebet or ERZABET: due to possible language differences and communication
between
the Port of entry Clerk who spoke only English, and Erzabet who spoke only
Hungarian..
He may have dubbed her Betreas. Another possibility, could Betreas have
been her
middle name which she preferred to use. Someone may have said to her, "you
look more like a Betreas" and so liked this name...Could Betreas be a
different person >from Erzabet?
It is interesting to ponder what life forces impact on individuals that
decades later
confound descendants. Logic is often difficult to fathom in information that
is gotten in fragments and word of mouth.
Possibly, in your searches of documents you may one day come across
notations or
papers that will explain.
Good luck in your search,
Kitty Sauber


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Re:Join the Discussion!< #hungary

BruceKitty@...
 

To Maureen Tighe-Brown,
I have missed reading your helpful and informative contributions. I wish
you would not permit a few poorly informed "nay sayers" to deprive the rest of us of
your knowldege and insights.
Kitty Sauber NY


Re: labour batallion camps #hungary

Patricia J Weisshaus <patjw28@...>
 

Andrew:

The note I have in my records is the following:

Sandor's death is recorded as 17 September 1942 and comes >from the book,
NAMES OF JEWISH VICTIMS OF HUNGARIAN LABOR BATTALIONS, LETTERS K-Z, Vol. 2,
Page 709:

"Weiszhaus, Sandor Berger, Irma (mother's maiden name) 00/05/12 Budapest
(birth date) Beteg (disposition - sick)

42/09/17 (date of record) 44119 (ID number)".

The date is correct, according to the records found at the District VII
Municipal Archives in Budapest..

That's the only information we have, except that a Hungarian soldier came
to their apartment to tell my husand's mother the news and to give her a
ring which her husband always wore. I don't have the date on which this
occurred, but my husand remembers the visit by the soldier.

A cousin that he had not talked to for 55 years who was found in Australia,
related this story to him a few days ago. I don't know where she heard it,
and that's the reason for my question to the list.

Pat
:

About Pat's message, I have not heard that story, but my father also died of
typhoid fever in the Ukraine. It was not at Kharkov, where he was sent
earlier, but after the Voronezh debacle he walked back to Kiev and got
himself into an army hospital, that's where he died. Are you sure, though,
that the event you describe happened in 1942? For the situation was falling
apart for the Hungarian army a year later, the typhoid epidemic reached its
apex in 1943, that's when my father died, in April.

Andrew Sanders
Toronto / Haifa


Tombstone photos question #hungary

Carol Karp
 

I will be sending throw-away cameras to Hungary to photograph tombstones. I want to know which would be better...black and white film or color film?
Thanks. Carol Karp


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re:labour batallion camps #hungary

Patricia J Weisshaus <patjw28@...>
 

Andrew:

The note I have in my records is the following:

Sandor's death is recorded as 17 September 1942 and comes >from the book,
NAMES OF JEWISH VICTIMS OF HUNGARIAN LABOR BATTALIONS, LETTERS K-Z, Vol. 2,
Page 709:

"Weiszhaus, Sandor Berger, Irma (mother's maiden name) 00/05/12 Budapest
(birth date) Beteg (disposition - sick)

42/09/17 (date of record) 44119 (ID number)".

The date is correct, according to the records found at the District VII
Municipal Archives in Budapest..

That's the only information we have, except that a Hungarian soldier came
to their apartment to tell my husand's mother the news and to give her a
ring which her husband always wore. I don't have the date on which this
occurred, but my husand remembers the visit by the soldier.

A cousin that he had not talked to for 55 years who was found in Australia,
related this story to him a few days ago. I don't know where she heard it,
and that's the reason for my question to the list.

Pat
:

About Pat's message, I have not heard that story, but my father also died of
typhoid fever in the Ukraine. It was not at Kharkov, where he was sent
earlier, but after the Voronezh debacle he walked back to Kiev and got
himself into an army hospital, that's where he died. Are you sure, though,
that the event you describe happened in 1942? For the situation was falling
apart for the Hungarian army a year later, the typhoid epidemic reached its
apex in 1943, that's when my father died, in April.

Andrew Sanders
Toronto / Haifa


Hungary SIG #Hungary Tombstone photos question #hungary

Carol Karp
 

I will be sending throw-away cameras to Hungary to photograph tombstones. I want to know which would be better...black and white film or color film?
Thanks. Carol Karp


May 2004 Visit to Bihor County Romania-Part I #hungary

FbandJd@...
 

Dear Fellow Researchers,

Thank you to all of the JewishGen members who helped make our first visit to Hungary and Romania a success.

After three weeks of touring Hungary my husband and I took the Intercity Train >from the Keleti Train Station leaving Budapest and arriving in Debrecen. It is an express train, took only 2 hours and 40 minutes and we were able to have reserved seats. I would suggest buying the tickets at the train station and not in the states because it's 3x cheaper in Hungary.

At the Debrecen train station we were met by our Romanian guide and driver who then drove across the border to Bihor County, Romania [formerly Bihar, Hungary].There is a one hour time change >from Hungary to Romania--one hour greater in Romania. This should be taken into consideration if someone >from Romania is meeting you in Hungary [ or the other way around].

After several years of research it was determined that the entire maternal side of my family lived in Bihar County >from about 1810 to 1910. Before that they lived in NagyKaroly/Carei and Tasnad. Our planned project was to visit the villages and cemeteries where my grandparents and great-grandparents were born.

Part II I will discuss the cemeteries in Ermihalyfalva/Valea lui Mihai, Kobolkut/Cubulcut, Szalard/Salard,Bihar/Biharia and the orthodox cemeteries in Nagyvarad/Oradea. We have complete digital pictures of all of the stones in the small Jewish cemeteries of Cubulcut, Salard and Biharia and I have lists of names that were not written in Hebrew.If anyone is interested I will be happy to answer any questions you might have.

Best Regards,
Fran Meng
Walnut Creek, CA

Researching: GOTTLIEB,GLUCK,BREUER,GRUNSTEIN, NEUFELD, LINDENFELD,KRAUS,DEUTS,TISCHLER >from Bihar/Bihor County.


Hungary SIG #Hungary May 2004 Visit to Bihor County Romania-Part I #hungary

FbandJd@...
 

Dear Fellow Researchers,

Thank you to all of the JewishGen members who helped make our first visit to Hungary and Romania a success.

After three weeks of touring Hungary my husband and I took the Intercity Train >from the Keleti Train Station leaving Budapest and arriving in Debrecen. It is an express train, took only 2 hours and 40 minutes and we were able to have reserved seats. I would suggest buying the tickets at the train station and not in the states because it's 3x cheaper in Hungary.

At the Debrecen train station we were met by our Romanian guide and driver who then drove across the border to Bihor County, Romania [formerly Bihar, Hungary].There is a one hour time change >from Hungary to Romania--one hour greater in Romania. This should be taken into consideration if someone >from Romania is meeting you in Hungary [ or the other way around].

After several years of research it was determined that the entire maternal side of my family lived in Bihar County >from about 1810 to 1910. Before that they lived in NagyKaroly/Carei and Tasnad. Our planned project was to visit the villages and cemeteries where my grandparents and great-grandparents were born.

Part II I will discuss the cemeteries in Ermihalyfalva/Valea lui Mihai, Kobolkut/Cubulcut, Szalard/Salard,Bihar/Biharia and the orthodox cemeteries in Nagyvarad/Oradea. We have complete digital pictures of all of the stones in the small Jewish cemeteries of Cubulcut, Salard and Biharia and I have lists of names that were not written in Hebrew.If anyone is interested I will be happy to answer any questions you might have.

Best Regards,
Fran Meng
Walnut Creek, CA

Researching: GOTTLIEB,GLUCK,BREUER,GRUNSTEIN, NEUFELD, LINDENFELD,KRAUS,DEUTS,TISCHLER >from Bihar/Bihor County.


Labor-camp: Erdovaros Teglagyar / Brickfactory at Erdovaros, Hungary #hungary

Eloedfamily@...
 

Dear Friends,

at the risk of repeating something I posted maybe a couple of years ago, I
will repeat an inquiry;

My father, before taken to the Mauthausen death camp (passed avay just 5 days
before the liberation) served as a forced laborer at the Erdo"va'ros (I seem
to recall 102 Bat.) camp, not far >from Budapest. They were a rail-railway
construction unit. My father as an engineer most likely working as a foreman.
This is the same unit, our well known Hungarian poet-writer Erno" Sze'p served
at. My father La'szlo' Elo"d was called up as of April 1, 1944. His last
written communication came >from this camp dated in late November / early December
1944.

Erno" Sze'p describes parts of life there in his book (translated >from
Hungarian into German and English; original Hungarian title: "Emberszag". The book
reflects a lot of his own psyche and emotional damages caused by the captivity.
Due to his at the time already advanced age, he was freed after approx. 3 or
4 month in this captivity. He eventually died in the 1950-s in Budapest. My
father mentions his meeting Erno' Sze'p at the camp.

I am trying to find anyone who was part of that unit, and recalls any of the
details of life there. My father at the time was 42 years old, so still alive
survivors would probably be around the age of 80 today, or have children in
the 60 age group who may reacall some of the writings or anectodes >from their
fathers.

You may respond to this by writing to me at:

eloedfamily@ aol.com or at
leloed@ AOL.Com

Thank you,

Leslie Eloed / Elo"d La'szlo'
California, USA


Hungary SIG #Hungary Labor-camp: Erdovaros Teglagyar / Brickfactory at Erdovaros, Hungary #hungary

Eloedfamily@...
 

Dear Friends,

at the risk of repeating something I posted maybe a couple of years ago, I
will repeat an inquiry;

My father, before taken to the Mauthausen death camp (passed avay just 5 days
before the liberation) served as a forced laborer at the Erdo"va'ros (I seem
to recall 102 Bat.) camp, not far >from Budapest. They were a rail-railway
construction unit. My father as an engineer most likely working as a foreman.
This is the same unit, our well known Hungarian poet-writer Erno" Sze'p served
at. My father La'szlo' Elo"d was called up as of April 1, 1944. His last
written communication came >from this camp dated in late November / early December
1944.

Erno" Sze'p describes parts of life there in his book (translated >from
Hungarian into German and English; original Hungarian title: "Emberszag". The book
reflects a lot of his own psyche and emotional damages caused by the captivity.
Due to his at the time already advanced age, he was freed after approx. 3 or
4 month in this captivity. He eventually died in the 1950-s in Budapest. My
father mentions his meeting Erno' Sze'p at the camp.

I am trying to find anyone who was part of that unit, and recalls any of the
details of life there. My father at the time was 42 years old, so still alive
survivors would probably be around the age of 80 today, or have children in
the 60 age group who may reacall some of the writings or anectodes >from their
fathers.

You may respond to this by writing to me at:

eloedfamily@ aol.com or at
leloed@ AOL.Com

Thank you,

Leslie Eloed / Elo"d La'szlo'
California, USA


Mad Synagogue; DEUTSCH and STRASSLER [longish] #hungary

Diane Rabson <dmrabson@...>
 

Last week I returned >from a several day visit to
Budapest, with a day exploring the lovely,
newly-restored synagogue in the northeastern town of
Mad. If you are planning a trip to the Tokaj region,
consider stopping in Mad.

from Budapest, take the M3 highway, and don't forget
the special highway sticker for your windshield.
Check with the car rental agency; we bought ours at a
booth right off the M3. (But you had to know
Hungarian to read the message that the booth was
there.)

At some point, the road will fork and allow you to
drive to Miskolc, the second largest city in Hungary.
We ate at McDonald's on the main road (I know, I
know--so American.) Continue through Miskolc and
follow the signs toward Satoraljaujhely. The road
becomes two-lane; you will see lovely sunflower fields
and if you're lucky, a black and white stork or two.

Originally I intended to go to Tallya to research my
ggggf, Moses STRAUSLER, at the town hall and ask for
records for fellow genealogist, Carol Karp. I made a
fatal error when I decided *not* to have my driver
take the turnoff road to Tallya, but continue on to
Mad to see the synagogue first. (I'm interested in
old synagogue wall paintings, as in the old wooden
Polish synagogues.)

Once in Mad, we stopped at a grocery and asked a woman
outside the whereabouts of the synagogue. She asked
if I was related to the "DY-GESS" family--I realized
that she meant "DEUTSCH." I said I probably was
(although I'm far >from sure.)

She directed us to the town hall on Rakocsi ut. [right
turn off the main road as you head toward Tallya.] At
the town hall, we consulted upstairs with the
"adviser" [town clerk] who also asked about my DEUTSCH
connections. This is a very common name in Mad, and
he said he had gone to school with two DEUTSCH women
who now live in the US. The adviser was quite
gracious and had his assistant photocopy all birth
records for STRASSLERs, who may be related to my
STRAUSLERs >from Tallya and Tokaj. Then the bad news:
it was 3:45 and they closed at 4...and no, it made no
sense to dash to the Tallya town hall since they also
close at 4...thus my fatal mistake.

He also quickly showed us a yizkor book published in
Israel in 1974--"Mad Zsido Hitkozsege," ed. Arieh
Lewy, pub. Maad Memorial Committee.

After leaving the town hall, we looked across the
street to see the synagogue at the top of a hill. We
had been told to inquire at 73 Rakocsi, where the
caretaker lives. There's a doorbell on the side of
that building. He was another gracious and helpful
person who said he was happy to take people into the
synagogue anytime at all. He brought the large,
ancient key and we made our way up the drive past the
old yeshiva building. Two other people were also
there; a survivor >from Israel and her daughter. We
all went in together.

It's difficult to describe the feeling of being in
this beautiful synagogue, exploring and hearing
stories of people who were deported in the 40's and
sometimes came back to visit. There is a memorial
plaque on the wall of the sanctuary for those
residents murdered during the Holocaust. The
caretaker told an apocryphal story about an Auschwitz
survivor who lost a silver ring in a corner of the
building in 1944, and found it upon her return to the
synagogue in 1989.

I have photographs that I can send digitally to anyone
interested. In addition, I came home with a brochure
about the synagogue and can copy it. It is in
Hungarian, however.

A caveat: the trip >from Budapest was MUCH longer than
we anticipated. If I were to do it again, I would set
aside at least three hours for the drive. That will
also give you time to find and lose the M3 in
Budapest, and spend precious moments trying to figure
out how to shift an Opel Corso into reverse. I would
spend at least one night, if not two, in Tokaj in
order to leisurely visit the small towns of Tallya,
Mad, Tarcal, etc., and even sample some wine. As it
was, we had to rush back to Budapest.

Please respond privately if you wish photographs
and/or copy of the brochure. Also, I made a
photograph of the names on the memorial plaque--that
roll of film is still in development.

See the article at
http://www.isjm.org/news/article12.htm for more
information about the restoration of the synagogue.

Diane Rabson
Boulder, Colorado

Searching:
STRAUSLER/STRASSLER (STRASSER?), Tallya, Mad, Tokaj,
Godollo, Brooklyn
NEUMAN / KOHN, Tokaj, Satoraljaujhely

=====
*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*
Diane M. Rabson
xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Boulder, CO xxxxxUSA
dmrabson@yahoo.com

Moderator: We've omitted Diane's s-mail address in compliance with JG procedures. I think that we would all be interested in her photos and brochure but JewishGen can't forward attachments. If Diane is willing, we will try to make this info available on the H-SIG website. If you can't wait, do contact her off-list.


Hungary SIG #Hungary Mad Synagogue; DEUTSCH and STRASSLER [longish] #hungary

Diane Rabson <dmrabson@...>
 

Last week I returned >from a several day visit to
Budapest, with a day exploring the lovely,
newly-restored synagogue in the northeastern town of
Mad. If you are planning a trip to the Tokaj region,
consider stopping in Mad.

from Budapest, take the M3 highway, and don't forget
the special highway sticker for your windshield.
Check with the car rental agency; we bought ours at a
booth right off the M3. (But you had to know
Hungarian to read the message that the booth was
there.)

At some point, the road will fork and allow you to
drive to Miskolc, the second largest city in Hungary.
We ate at McDonald's on the main road (I know, I
know--so American.) Continue through Miskolc and
follow the signs toward Satoraljaujhely. The road
becomes two-lane; you will see lovely sunflower fields
and if you're lucky, a black and white stork or two.

Originally I intended to go to Tallya to research my
ggggf, Moses STRAUSLER, at the town hall and ask for
records for fellow genealogist, Carol Karp. I made a
fatal error when I decided *not* to have my driver
take the turnoff road to Tallya, but continue on to
Mad to see the synagogue first. (I'm interested in
old synagogue wall paintings, as in the old wooden
Polish synagogues.)

Once in Mad, we stopped at a grocery and asked a woman
outside the whereabouts of the synagogue. She asked
if I was related to the "DY-GESS" family--I realized
that she meant "DEUTSCH." I said I probably was
(although I'm far >from sure.)

She directed us to the town hall on Rakocsi ut. [right
turn off the main road as you head toward Tallya.] At
the town hall, we consulted upstairs with the
"adviser" [town clerk] who also asked about my DEUTSCH
connections. This is a very common name in Mad, and
he said he had gone to school with two DEUTSCH women
who now live in the US. The adviser was quite
gracious and had his assistant photocopy all birth
records for STRASSLERs, who may be related to my
STRAUSLERs >from Tallya and Tokaj. Then the bad news:
it was 3:45 and they closed at 4...and no, it made no
sense to dash to the Tallya town hall since they also
close at 4...thus my fatal mistake.

He also quickly showed us a yizkor book published in
Israel in 1974--"Mad Zsido Hitkozsege," ed. Arieh
Lewy, pub. Maad Memorial Committee.

After leaving the town hall, we looked across the
street to see the synagogue at the top of a hill. We
had been told to inquire at 73 Rakocsi, where the
caretaker lives. There's a doorbell on the side of
that building. He was another gracious and helpful
person who said he was happy to take people into the
synagogue anytime at all. He brought the large,
ancient key and we made our way up the drive past the
old yeshiva building. Two other people were also
there; a survivor >from Israel and her daughter. We
all went in together.

It's difficult to describe the feeling of being in
this beautiful synagogue, exploring and hearing
stories of people who were deported in the 40's and
sometimes came back to visit. There is a memorial
plaque on the wall of the sanctuary for those
residents murdered during the Holocaust. The
caretaker told an apocryphal story about an Auschwitz
survivor who lost a silver ring in a corner of the
building in 1944, and found it upon her return to the
synagogue in 1989.

I have photographs that I can send digitally to anyone
interested. In addition, I came home with a brochure
about the synagogue and can copy it. It is in
Hungarian, however.

A caveat: the trip >from Budapest was MUCH longer than
we anticipated. If I were to do it again, I would set
aside at least three hours for the drive. That will
also give you time to find and lose the M3 in
Budapest, and spend precious moments trying to figure
out how to shift an Opel Corso into reverse. I would
spend at least one night, if not two, in Tokaj in
order to leisurely visit the small towns of Tallya,
Mad, Tarcal, etc., and even sample some wine. As it
was, we had to rush back to Budapest.

Please respond privately if you wish photographs
and/or copy of the brochure. Also, I made a
photograph of the names on the memorial plaque--that
roll of film is still in development.

See the article at
http://www.isjm.org/news/article12.htm for more
information about the restoration of the synagogue.

Diane Rabson
Boulder, Colorado

Searching:
STRAUSLER/STRASSLER (STRASSER?), Tallya, Mad, Tokaj,
Godollo, Brooklyn
NEUMAN / KOHN, Tokaj, Satoraljaujhely

=====
*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*
Diane M. Rabson
xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Boulder, CO xxxxxUSA
dmrabson@yahoo.com

Moderator: We've omitted Diane's s-mail address in compliance with JG procedures. I think that we would all be interested in her photos and brochure but JewishGen can't forward attachments. If Diane is willing, we will try to make this info available on the H-SIG website. If you can't wait, do contact her off-list.


Re: Join the Discussion!< #hungary

Marian Brown
 

What a shame, Maureen. I have always appreciated your intelligent and
informed comments on H-Sig and miss them.

Marian Brown
Cincinnati, OH

MTB wrote:

I have just read with interest the posts by Gabor Hirsch and our dedicated
moderator. Vivian Kahn.
<snip>


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Join the Discussion!< #hungary

Marian Brown
 

What a shame, Maureen. I have always appreciated your intelligent and
informed comments on H-Sig and miss them.

Marian Brown
Cincinnati, OH

MTB wrote:

I have just read with interest the posts by Gabor Hirsch and our dedicated
moderator. Vivian Kahn.
<snip>


help needed at Viewmate #hungary

Joe Wein <joel5763@...>
 

Hi dear fellow Hungarian researchers
I have posted 2 documents at Viewmate >from the
Michalovce records, in which I found my great
grandfather's family name, in the town he lived then,
I am unable to get the exact information there about
him, could someone please help me out on this, the
address for the documents are as follows:

http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=4428
http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=4429

I will greatly appreciate any cmments
Thank you very much
J Weinstock


Hungary SIG #Hungary help needed at Viewmate #hungary

Joe Wein <joel5763@...>
 

Hi dear fellow Hungarian researchers
I have posted 2 documents at Viewmate >from the
Michalovce records, in which I found my great
grandfather's family name, in the town he lived then,
I am unable to get the exact information there about
him, could someone please help me out on this, the
address for the documents are as follows:

http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=4428
http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=4429

I will greatly appreciate any cmments
Thank you very much
J Weinstock