Date   

Re: translation of few hungarian words #hungary

Peter I.Hidas <thidas@...>
 

On Tuesday, Aug 24, 2004, at 08:45 Canada/Eastern, tom klein wrote:

first, "falu" means "town"
Mistake. Falu means village.

and "falva" means "town of". "patak" means "stream". these are words
commonly attached to place names, rather than actual places
themselves. there are very, very many hungarian place names containing
"falu" or "patak".
patak= creek, brook, streamlet, rivulet

second, an excellent online resource for hungarian place names is the
radix 1913 gazetteer of hungary at
<http://www.radixindex.com/cgi-bin/hn1913.cgi>. you can search by
name or partial name and it will list places along with their county
and district, as well as mapping their location on a map of "greater
hungary". (it includes pre-trianon areas like slovakia and
transylvania.)

"ga'cs orsza'g" refers to the land of galicia.


....... tom klein, toronto


ilona lerman <phililona2001@yahoo.com> wrote:

I recently came across the names of two places on my great uncle's
marriage record >from Rozhegy >from 1897(today Ruzomberok Slovakia).
Does anyone know of these places- RASZTOK FALUN and BESENYO PATAK.
Could the latter be the same as Lipto Patak? Also I found on a birth
record the words GACS ORZAG. Does this refer to the "state" of
Galicia? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Ilona Lerman Beerot
Yitzchak, IsraelPeter
Mississauga, Ontario
Canada

www3.sympatico.ca/thidas
peterhidas@yahoo.com


Re: Elmebaj #hungary

David Sencer
 

Would dementia work? That is a common stated cause of death of the aged.

Dave Sencer
Atlanta, GA


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: re: translation of few hungarian words #hungary

Peter I.Hidas <thidas@...>
 

On Tuesday, Aug 24, 2004, at 08:45 Canada/Eastern, tom klein wrote:

first, "falu" means "town"
Mistake. Falu means village.

and "falva" means "town of". "patak" means "stream". these are words
commonly attached to place names, rather than actual places
themselves. there are very, very many hungarian place names containing
"falu" or "patak".
patak= creek, brook, streamlet, rivulet

second, an excellent online resource for hungarian place names is the
radix 1913 gazetteer of hungary at
<http://www.radixindex.com/cgi-bin/hn1913.cgi>. you can search by
name or partial name and it will list places along with their county
and district, as well as mapping their location on a map of "greater
hungary". (it includes pre-trianon areas like slovakia and
transylvania.)

"ga'cs orsza'g" refers to the land of galicia.


....... tom klein, toronto


ilona lerman <phililona2001@yahoo.com> wrote:

I recently came across the names of two places on my great uncle's
marriage record >from Rozhegy >from 1897(today Ruzomberok Slovakia).
Does anyone know of these places- RASZTOK FALUN and BESENYO PATAK.
Could the latter be the same as Lipto Patak? Also I found on a birth
record the words GACS ORZAG. Does this refer to the "state" of
Galicia? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Ilona Lerman Beerot
Yitzchak, IsraelPeter
Mississauga, Ontario
Canada

www3.sympatico.ca/thidas
peterhidas@yahoo.com


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Elmebaj #hungary

David Sencer
 

Would dementia work? That is a common stated cause of death of the aged.

Dave Sencer
Atlanta, GA


Another milestone! Another thank you! #france

Susan E. King <susan.king@...>
 

As many of you are aware, the "behind the scenes" team has been working
tirelessly (and endlessly) to implement our Central User Registration
Environment (CURE) and fine-tuning all the elements in this huge project.
CURE will enable us to better manage all our back office systems and
ensure integration of all JewishGen programs and projects into one
central system.

Would you believe that we are fast approaching the 100,000 mark in user
registrations to JewishGen? An awesome number for a community that started
with slightly more than 100 people and one computer just 18 short years ago!
Now, to enable us to meet the user demand we are running 10 servers in a 24/7
secure co-location facility. It truly boggles the mind!

As busy as we have been behind the scenes, I wanted to take a moment to thank
all the many hundreds of our world wide volunteers who have contributed so
greatly to making JewishGen a vital community and recognized leader in the
field of Jewish genealogy.

We applaud their efforts and their dedication and commitment to this
organization. To those who have blessed us with their financial support
over the years, please know we are ever so grateful! We could not have gotten
where we are today without you.

My personal thanks go out to all the JewishGen Vice Presidents, the SIG
Leaders and the JewishGen Board for their significant contributions,
commitment and dedication to the missions and goals of this organization.
With your help we have achieved yet another milestone in our development. We
look forward to using our new tools to create the building blocks for an
even greater and more efficient JewishGen in the months and years to come.

Susan E. King
JewishGen


French SIG #France Another milestone! Another thank you! #france

Susan E. King <susan.king@...>
 

As many of you are aware, the "behind the scenes" team has been working
tirelessly (and endlessly) to implement our Central User Registration
Environment (CURE) and fine-tuning all the elements in this huge project.
CURE will enable us to better manage all our back office systems and
ensure integration of all JewishGen programs and projects into one
central system.

Would you believe that we are fast approaching the 100,000 mark in user
registrations to JewishGen? An awesome number for a community that started
with slightly more than 100 people and one computer just 18 short years ago!
Now, to enable us to meet the user demand we are running 10 servers in a 24/7
secure co-location facility. It truly boggles the mind!

As busy as we have been behind the scenes, I wanted to take a moment to thank
all the many hundreds of our world wide volunteers who have contributed so
greatly to making JewishGen a vital community and recognized leader in the
field of Jewish genealogy.

We applaud their efforts and their dedication and commitment to this
organization. To those who have blessed us with their financial support
over the years, please know we are ever so grateful! We could not have gotten
where we are today without you.

My personal thanks go out to all the JewishGen Vice Presidents, the SIG
Leaders and the JewishGen Board for their significant contributions,
commitment and dedication to the missions and goals of this organization.
With your help we have achieved yet another milestone in our development. We
look forward to using our new tools to create the building blocks for an
even greater and more efficient JewishGen in the months and years to come.

Susan E. King
JewishGen


European Day of Jewish Culture #france

Eliane Roos <ljrooschuhl@...>
 

I am sorry for errors made in giving information on that great day
in many European countries, esp France, Germany etc :
it will take place on Sunday September 5th and here is a more convenient
address :

www.jewisheritage.org

do enjoy these opportunities,
Eliane Roos Schuhl Paris





----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----


French SIG #France European Day of Jewish Culture #france

Eliane Roos <ljrooschuhl@...>
 

I am sorry for errors made in giving information on that great day
in many European countries, esp France, Germany etc :
it will take place on Sunday September 5th and here is a more convenient
address :

www.jewisheritage.org

do enjoy these opportunities,
Eliane Roos Schuhl Paris





----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----


Re: Cause of Death-Elmebaj #hungary

tom klein <h-sig@...>
 

based purely on the language (i am not a doctor), i would say that "elmebaj" refers to strictly psychological illness rather than something like stroke.

granted that "psychosis" is not normally fatal, psychiatric problems could cause death, especially where there aren't fancy medical treatments (such as anti-depressants, tranquilizers, intravenous feeding, etc.) available. in addition to intentional suicide, irrational behaviour could also lead to harm such as starvation or other, accidental, injuries.

it also might have been suicide (hungary has had a remarkably high rate), in which case it may have been ascribed to mental illness to avoid stigmatizing the deceased and to soften the blow to the bereaved family.

and it's also important to consider the prejudices of the time, where mental illness was considered a hereditary disease, so the doctor may have been predisposed to finding it in others in the same family. also, if the time period is right, there was considerable interest in mental illness, spurred by the publication (and celebrity) of sigmund freud's work.


....... tom klein, toronto

"Katz, Itzik" <Itzik.Katz@kla-tencor.com> wrote:


On two of my grandfather's sibling death-records the cause of death
is specified as "Elmebaj" which literally translates to psychosis.

I find it very difficult to accept psychosis as a cause of death
unless the persons in question committed suicide.

Do you know of another possible translation to this cause of death or
any other explanation why would this be written as a cause of death?
Can this mean "stroke" instead of psychosis?


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Cause of Death-Elmebaj #hungary

tom klein <h-sig@...>
 

based purely on the language (i am not a doctor), i would say that "elmebaj" refers to strictly psychological illness rather than something like stroke.

granted that "psychosis" is not normally fatal, psychiatric problems could cause death, especially where there aren't fancy medical treatments (such as anti-depressants, tranquilizers, intravenous feeding, etc.) available. in addition to intentional suicide, irrational behaviour could also lead to harm such as starvation or other, accidental, injuries.

it also might have been suicide (hungary has had a remarkably high rate), in which case it may have been ascribed to mental illness to avoid stigmatizing the deceased and to soften the blow to the bereaved family.

and it's also important to consider the prejudices of the time, where mental illness was considered a hereditary disease, so the doctor may have been predisposed to finding it in others in the same family. also, if the time period is right, there was considerable interest in mental illness, spurred by the publication (and celebrity) of sigmund freud's work.


....... tom klein, toronto

"Katz, Itzik" <Itzik.Katz@kla-tencor.com> wrote:


On two of my grandfather's sibling death-records the cause of death
is specified as "Elmebaj" which literally translates to psychosis.

I find it very difficult to accept psychosis as a cause of death
unless the persons in question committed suicide.

Do you know of another possible translation to this cause of death or
any other explanation why would this be written as a cause of death?
Can this mean "stroke" instead of psychosis?


Re: Auschwitz database #hungary

Gábor Hirsch <hirsch@...>
 

The searchable database is part of the 3 Volume documentation, you can
buy in Polish, German or English >from the Museum. A list of the
different publications is in English to be find under
http://www.auschwitz.org.pl/publikacje/index.php?language=EN
A short information about the database/book:

Death books >from Auschwitz
Vol. I. Reports
Vol. II Index of Names A - L
Vol. III Index of Names M - Z

This documentation is based on the original records kept by the SS
authorities of the Auschwitz-Birkenau concentration and death camps.
They contain entries for the death dates of Auschwitz prisoners in the
period >from July 27, 1941 to December 31, 1943. Most of these names of
prisoners who died in Auschwitz, documentated by the SS administration,
have not been published anywhere before and remain a historical source
of unique importance...

The first part is an interesting general information of the camp by
several historians, I didn't bought the books because it deals with a
period, before the Hungarian massdeportations and more or less with
political prisoners, but to be correct many Jews at that time were
inprisoned as politicals. It might deal also with many >from
Czechoslovakia? Slovakia?. I know some Slovakian woman deported with the
first women transport to Auschwitz already on 26. March 1942, also
people >from Prag sent 1942 to Lodz/Litzmanstadt, they might be included.
So in my opinion (but I can fail) the Jews of Hungary inside the border
of 1942 are not included in the datebase, but some >from greater Hungary
might.

Best regards
Gabor Hirsch


marcplot schrieb:
> Message text written by "H-SIG"
>
>> The Auschwitz-Birkenau Memorial and Museum searchable database is
>> now in
>
> English. http://www.auschwitz.org.pl/szukaj/index.php?language=EN<
>
> Thanks Debbie. Even though the database is in English, the "How to
> search" text says to enter place names in German. Does anyoone know
> of an online source of German names for the areas covered by HSIG?
> Perhaps a German map?

Death books >from Auschwitz
Vol. I. Reports
Vol. II Index of Names A - L
Vol. III Index of Names M - Z

This documentation is based on the original records kept by the SS
authorities of the Auschwitz-Birkenau concentration and death camps.
They contain entries for the death dates of Auschwitz prisoners in the
period >from July 27, 1941 to December 31, 1943. Most of these names of
prisoners who died in Auschwitz, documentated by the SS administration,
have not been published anywhere before and remain a historical source
of unique importance...


Another milestone! Another thank you! #hungary

Susan E. King <susan.king@...>
 

As many of you are aware, the "behind the scenes" team has been working
tirelessly (and endlessly) to implement our Central User Registration
Environment (CURE) and fine-tuning all the elements in this huge project.
CURE will enable us to better manage all our back office systems and ensure integration of all JewishGen programs and projects into one central system.

Would you believe that we are fast approaching the 100,000 mark in user
registrations to JewishGen? An awesome number for a community that started
with slightly more than 100 people and one computer just 18 short years ago!
Now, to enable us to meet the user demand we are running 10 servers in a 24/7 secure co-location facility. It truly boggles the mind!

As busy as we have been behind the scenes, I wanted to take a moment to thank
all the many hundreds of our world wide volunteers who have contributed so
greatly to making JewishGen a vital community and recognized leader in the
field of Jewish genealogy.

We applaud their efforts and their dedication and commitment to this
organization. To those who have blessed us with their financial support
over the years, please know we are ever so grateful! We could not have gotten
where we are today without you.

My personal thanks go out to all the JewishGen Vice Presidents, the SIG
Leaders and the JewishGen Board for their significant contributions,
commitment and dedication to the missions and goals of this organization.
With your help we have achieved yet another milestone in our development. We
look forward to using our new tools to create the building blocks for an even greater and more efficient JewishGen in the months and years to come.

Susan


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Auschwitz database #hungary

Gábor Hirsch <hirsch@...>
 

The searchable database is part of the 3 Volume documentation, you can
buy in Polish, German or English >from the Museum. A list of the
different publications is in English to be find under
http://www.auschwitz.org.pl/publikacje/index.php?language=EN
A short information about the database/book:

Death books >from Auschwitz
Vol. I. Reports
Vol. II Index of Names A - L
Vol. III Index of Names M - Z

This documentation is based on the original records kept by the SS
authorities of the Auschwitz-Birkenau concentration and death camps.
They contain entries for the death dates of Auschwitz prisoners in the
period >from July 27, 1941 to December 31, 1943. Most of these names of
prisoners who died in Auschwitz, documentated by the SS administration,
have not been published anywhere before and remain a historical source
of unique importance...

The first part is an interesting general information of the camp by
several historians, I didn't bought the books because it deals with a
period, before the Hungarian massdeportations and more or less with
political prisoners, but to be correct many Jews at that time were
inprisoned as politicals. It might deal also with many >from
Czechoslovakia? Slovakia?. I know some Slovakian woman deported with the
first women transport to Auschwitz already on 26. March 1942, also
people >from Prag sent 1942 to Lodz/Litzmanstadt, they might be included.
So in my opinion (but I can fail) the Jews of Hungary inside the border
of 1942 are not included in the datebase, but some >from greater Hungary
might.

Best regards
Gabor Hirsch


marcplot schrieb:
> Message text written by "H-SIG"
>
>> The Auschwitz-Birkenau Memorial and Museum searchable database is
>> now in
>
> English. http://www.auschwitz.org.pl/szukaj/index.php?language=EN<
>
> Thanks Debbie. Even though the database is in English, the "How to
> search" text says to enter place names in German. Does anyoone know
> of an online source of German names for the areas covered by HSIG?
> Perhaps a German map?

Death books >from Auschwitz
Vol. I. Reports
Vol. II Index of Names A - L
Vol. III Index of Names M - Z

This documentation is based on the original records kept by the SS
authorities of the Auschwitz-Birkenau concentration and death camps.
They contain entries for the death dates of Auschwitz prisoners in the
period >from July 27, 1941 to December 31, 1943. Most of these names of
prisoners who died in Auschwitz, documentated by the SS administration,
have not been published anywhere before and remain a historical source
of unique importance...


Hungary SIG #Hungary Another milestone! Another thank you! #hungary

Susan E. King <susan.king@...>
 

As many of you are aware, the "behind the scenes" team has been working
tirelessly (and endlessly) to implement our Central User Registration
Environment (CURE) and fine-tuning all the elements in this huge project.
CURE will enable us to better manage all our back office systems and ensure integration of all JewishGen programs and projects into one central system.

Would you believe that we are fast approaching the 100,000 mark in user
registrations to JewishGen? An awesome number for a community that started
with slightly more than 100 people and one computer just 18 short years ago!
Now, to enable us to meet the user demand we are running 10 servers in a 24/7 secure co-location facility. It truly boggles the mind!

As busy as we have been behind the scenes, I wanted to take a moment to thank
all the many hundreds of our world wide volunteers who have contributed so
greatly to making JewishGen a vital community and recognized leader in the
field of Jewish genealogy.

We applaud their efforts and their dedication and commitment to this
organization. To those who have blessed us with their financial support
over the years, please know we are ever so grateful! We could not have gotten
where we are today without you.

My personal thanks go out to all the JewishGen Vice Presidents, the SIG
Leaders and the JewishGen Board for their significant contributions,
commitment and dedication to the missions and goals of this organization.
With your help we have achieved yet another milestone in our development. We
look forward to using our new tools to create the building blocks for an even greater and more efficient JewishGen in the months and years to come.

Susan


Re: Dutch Ashkenazi Ethos #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

Aubrey Jacobus wrote:

I have a 100% Polish ancestry : 50 years ago I married into a family
witha 75% Dutch ancestry to some mild eyebrow raising on both sides
:One of the more striking differences I observed in the ethos of both
groups was in the area of " Covert " ( respect ) :
e.g . to be left out of an invitation to a stone setting bysome
remote acquaintance was regarded as an unforgivable insult.

Dear Aubrey,

Maybe that's why people announce stone-settings in the JC along with
the hatches, matches and despatches?

By the way, I would have thought that "koved" (Yiddish corruption
of the biblical Hebrew word kavod, meaning "honor") would by
definition need to be "overt" rather than "covert." In fact,
"Covert Koved" strikes me as a great oxymoron! (-:) (Sorry,
couldn't resist that one!)

Judith Romney Wegner


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Dutch Ashkenazi Ethos #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

Aubrey Jacobus wrote:

I have a 100% Polish ancestry : 50 years ago I married into a family
witha 75% Dutch ancestry to some mild eyebrow raising on both sides
:One of the more striking differences I observed in the ethos of both
groups was in the area of " Covert " ( respect ) :
e.g . to be left out of an invitation to a stone setting bysome
remote acquaintance was regarded as an unforgivable insult.

Dear Aubrey,

Maybe that's why people announce stone-settings in the JC along with
the hatches, matches and despatches?

By the way, I would have thought that "koved" (Yiddish corruption
of the biblical Hebrew word kavod, meaning "honor") would by
definition need to be "overt" rather than "covert." In fact,
"Covert Koved" strikes me as a great oxymoron! (-:) (Sorry,
couldn't resist that one!)

Judith Romney Wegner


Bernard Offen-Krakow #galicia

Edna Hoover
 

I just came across a reference to Bernard Offen on p. 210-211 of Ruth Ellen
Gruber's chapter on Krakow in "Upon the Doorposts of Thy House" (1994). At
the time she met him, he was working as a local tour guide and developing a
film project called "Jacob, the Shoemaker." She says he lived in San
Francisco part of the year. Does anyone know how I can get in touch with
him or his family?

[MODERATOR NOTE: Please respond privately]

"Edna Hoover"
Brooklyn NY
JGFF Researcher # 66736
For:
OFFEN Mielec, Rzeszow Area, Poland
MAURER Mielec, Rzeszow Area, Poland


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia Bernard Offen-Krakow #galicia

Edna Hoover
 

I just came across a reference to Bernard Offen on p. 210-211 of Ruth Ellen
Gruber's chapter on Krakow in "Upon the Doorposts of Thy House" (1994). At
the time she met him, he was working as a local tour guide and developing a
film project called "Jacob, the Shoemaker." She says he lived in San
Francisco part of the year. Does anyone know how I can get in touch with
him or his family?

[MODERATOR NOTE: Please respond privately]

"Edna Hoover"
Brooklyn NY
JGFF Researcher # 66736
For:
OFFEN Mielec, Rzeszow Area, Poland
MAURER Mielec, Rzeszow Area, Poland


Name equivalents #hungary

Lawrence Korman <korman3@...>
 

My great grandfather's death certificate lists his father's name as Louis.
He has no tombstone. My great grandfather's youngest son's name was Lajos,
so Louis makes sense to me.

A person, whom I am reasonably certain was his brother, lists his father's
name as George on the death certificate and Yehudah as the father's name on
his tombstone.

Could George and Louis both be equivalents of Yehudah?

All speculation appreciated.

Debbi Korman
Van Nuys, CA


Hungary SIG #Hungary Name equivalents #hungary

Lawrence Korman <korman3@...>
 

My great grandfather's death certificate lists his father's name as Louis.
He has no tombstone. My great grandfather's youngest son's name was Lajos,
so Louis makes sense to me.

A person, whom I am reasonably certain was his brother, lists his father's
name as George on the death certificate and Yehudah as the father's name on
his tombstone.

Could George and Louis both be equivalents of Yehudah?

All speculation appreciated.

Debbi Korman
Van Nuys, CA