Date   

Re: Ukrainian Pogroms circa 1916-1918 - Described historically #ukraine

Michelle Frager <lulu_brooks@...>
 

According to the widely respected book, "The Russian Jew Under Tsars and
Soviets" by Salo W. Baron, pogroms, especially in Ukraine, were worse during
the WWI/Revolution years than at any time previously, hard as that may be to
imagine.

On pages 181-182 of the 2nd Edition (1987) he writes in part:

"The initial four turbulent years of the Russian Revolution ... also witnessed
the renewal of ppogroms against Jews in a dgree far exceeding anything known in
tsarist [sic] days. The main seat of these disturbances, as in the earlier
pogrom waves, was Ukraine, which at this point...had become the primary center
of Jewish life."

(Note: I believe this short quote is not in violation of copyright law.)

This is major reference work with an excellent index for anyone interested in
browsing its possibilities to their own research. It's available at large and
university library systems, and through Inter-Library Loans.

Michelle Frager, NY area
Ukraine: TREIGER SIROTA SIBELBERG GLUZMAN SPIGELMAN & variants


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine re: Ukrainian Pogroms circa 1916-1918 - Described historically #ukraine

Michelle Frager <lulu_brooks@...>
 

According to the widely respected book, "The Russian Jew Under Tsars and
Soviets" by Salo W. Baron, pogroms, especially in Ukraine, were worse during
the WWI/Revolution years than at any time previously, hard as that may be to
imagine.

On pages 181-182 of the 2nd Edition (1987) he writes in part:

"The initial four turbulent years of the Russian Revolution ... also witnessed
the renewal of ppogroms against Jews in a dgree far exceeding anything known in
tsarist [sic] days. The main seat of these disturbances, as in the earlier
pogrom waves, was Ukraine, which at this point...had become the primary center
of Jewish life."

(Note: I believe this short quote is not in violation of copyright law.)

This is major reference work with an excellent index for anyone interested in
browsing its possibilities to their own research. It's available at large and
university library systems, and through Inter-Library Loans.

Michelle Frager, NY area
Ukraine: TREIGER SIROTA SIBELBERG GLUZMAN SPIGELMAN & variants


Re: Pogroms in central Ukraine circa 1916-1918 #general

Ida & Joseph Schwarcz
 

Your story sounds like the stories I have heard >from my parents who fled
their towns in Ukraine at the time of the pogroms. All four of my
grandparents died as a result of the pogroms, >from epidemics and famine.
Saul Friedman published a book, "Pogromchik" which deals with the
assassination of Petlura.
Ida Selavan Schwarcz
Arad, Israel

Dr. Joseph M. Schwarcz
Dr. Ida Selavan Schwarcz

-----Original Message-----
From: Moshe & Esther Davis [mailto:davis@sefer.org]
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 3:02 PM
To: Ukraine SIG
Subject: Re: [ukraine] Pogroms in central Ukraine circa 1916-1918


http://www.isragen.org.il/NROS/Research/VY-search-Israel.pdf
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Does anyone know of any pogroms that occurred in central Ukraine
sometime during 1916 thru 1918?
In both my wife's and my own family there are stories handed down
from the pogroms that took place during that period of time.
My wife's mother's family was >from Novograd-Wolinsk (Zvhil), a
large city located between Zitomer and Rovne on the main road
heading west >from Kiev. My wife's grandfather (a teenager at the
time) was drafted into the Russian army during WW1. Soon after
he returned to Zvhil after the war in 1919, the Russian revolution
broke out. The Ukrainian leader Petlura at that time led a
widespread series of pogroms (about 1,400 separate pogroms in
the Ukraine alone) in which about seventy thousand Jews were
murdered and about an equal number wounded. After carrying out
a major pogrom in the city Proskurov, Petlura and his troops came
on trains to Zvhil. The local Jews were terrified, and went to the
"commander" of Zvhil to beg that Petlura's troops not be allowed
into the city. Negotiations took place in which Petlura agreed not
to allow his troops to leave the train station in exchange for the city
providing his troops with new boots. All of the Jewish shoemakers
in the city worked nonstop 24-hours daily for almost a week to fill
the order, with the other Jews of the city bringing them food, drinks,
and coffee around the clock. Then Petlura demanded that the city
contribute new troops to his army. All young men were ordered to
show up to be drafted, under penalty of death. Zayde was in this
draft call. He went wearing his Russian WW1 uniform, and being
able to speak fluent Ukrainian and by faking his name was able to
hide the fact that he was Jewish. He was drafted into Petlura's
army, which moved south towards Odessa. He personally
witnessed other pogroms perpetrated by those Ukrainian troops. In
an autobiographical letter written to his grandchildren, he
specifically mentions the name of a village "Shmilka" where he
describes a pogrom where Jews were beaten and beheaded. Later
he was captured by the Bolsheviks and was considering fighting for
them ("...at least the Bolsheviks didn't murder the Jews like the
Ukrainians...") when the POW camp that he was interned with was
overrun by the Ukrainian troops. Later he was recaptured a second
time by the Bolsheviks. After the revolution, Zayde was on his way
back home when a Ukrainian >from Zvhil recognized him in a train
station as a Jew and tried to murder him. Zayde escaped by hiding
between train cars on the railroad sidings. He returned to Zvhil,
where he married in 1923, and was able to get out of Russia by
obtaining a visa to Cuba in 1926. In 1955, just before Castro took
over Cuba, the family escaped Cuba for the USA.

That was in my wife's family.

My own father's family was >from the village Szeleslonka (also
known as Leh or as Shirukiy Lug, located between Chust and
Sziget) in the area of former Austro-Hungarian Marmaros which is
now within the southwestern border of the Ukraine.

With the defeat of the Hapsburg Austro-Hungarian empire in WW1
and the death of King Franz Josef in 1919, the Austro-Hungarian
empire disintegrated. When the Russian revolution broke out in that
same year, there was an abortive attempt by ethnic Ukrainians
(Rusyn) who lived both in Russia and in the northeastern regions of
Hungary (bordering the Russian Ukraine) to establish an
independent Ukrainian state. As a part of this larger attempted
political uprising by the Ukrainians, there was a local antisemetic
pogrom carried out in 1919 by the ethnic Ukrainians-Ruthenians in
the village Szeleslonka. The Ruthenians rioted and destroyed
Jewish property and homes and forcibly drove the Jews out of town
in the freezing winter. I don't know if anyone was actually killed in
Szeleslonka, but in the Chust Yizkor Book it is mentioned that
people were in fact killed during this uprising in the nearby city
Chust.

The Jewish refugees >from Szeleslonka hid in the forests and found
refuge in neighboring towns where the local Jewish population was
larger and better able to defend themselves. I am in possession of
family letters giving some details of this pogrom. I was told other
details in speaking with various Holocaust survivors from
Szeleslonka and vicinity.

When some of the young Jewish men >from Szeleslonka who had
served in the Hungarian army in WW1 returned home >from the war
and found out what the local Ruthenians had done, they took
revenge by torching and burning down most of the village.

Order was restored to the area when in 1920 Subcarpathian
Ruthenia (including northern and central Marmaros) was added to
the newly formed state of Czechoslovakia. The Czech army
entered the area and put down the local Ukrainian rabble.

Moshe Davis
Jerusalem


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine RE: Pogroms in central Ukraine circa 1916-1918 #ukraine

Ida & Joseph Schwarcz
 

Your story sounds like the stories I have heard >from my parents who fled
their towns in Ukraine at the time of the pogroms. All four of my
grandparents died as a result of the pogroms, >from epidemics and famine.
Saul Friedman published a book, "Pogromchik" which deals with the
assassination of Petlura.
Ida Selavan Schwarcz
Arad, Israel

Dr. Joseph M. Schwarcz
Dr. Ida Selavan Schwarcz

-----Original Message-----
From: Moshe & Esther Davis [mailto:davis@sefer.org]
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 3:02 PM
To: Ukraine SIG
Subject: Re: [ukraine] Pogroms in central Ukraine circa 1916-1918


http://www.isragen.org.il/NROS/Research/VY-search-Israel.pdf
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Does anyone know of any pogroms that occurred in central Ukraine
sometime during 1916 thru 1918?
In both my wife's and my own family there are stories handed down
from the pogroms that took place during that period of time.
My wife's mother's family was >from Novograd-Wolinsk (Zvhil), a
large city located between Zitomer and Rovne on the main road
heading west >from Kiev. My wife's grandfather (a teenager at the
time) was drafted into the Russian army during WW1. Soon after
he returned to Zvhil after the war in 1919, the Russian revolution
broke out. The Ukrainian leader Petlura at that time led a
widespread series of pogroms (about 1,400 separate pogroms in
the Ukraine alone) in which about seventy thousand Jews were
murdered and about an equal number wounded. After carrying out
a major pogrom in the city Proskurov, Petlura and his troops came
on trains to Zvhil. The local Jews were terrified, and went to the
"commander" of Zvhil to beg that Petlura's troops not be allowed
into the city. Negotiations took place in which Petlura agreed not
to allow his troops to leave the train station in exchange for the city
providing his troops with new boots. All of the Jewish shoemakers
in the city worked nonstop 24-hours daily for almost a week to fill
the order, with the other Jews of the city bringing them food, drinks,
and coffee around the clock. Then Petlura demanded that the city
contribute new troops to his army. All young men were ordered to
show up to be drafted, under penalty of death. Zayde was in this
draft call. He went wearing his Russian WW1 uniform, and being
able to speak fluent Ukrainian and by faking his name was able to
hide the fact that he was Jewish. He was drafted into Petlura's
army, which moved south towards Odessa. He personally
witnessed other pogroms perpetrated by those Ukrainian troops. In
an autobiographical letter written to his grandchildren, he
specifically mentions the name of a village "Shmilka" where he
describes a pogrom where Jews were beaten and beheaded. Later
he was captured by the Bolsheviks and was considering fighting for
them ("...at least the Bolsheviks didn't murder the Jews like the
Ukrainians...") when the POW camp that he was interned with was
overrun by the Ukrainian troops. Later he was recaptured a second
time by the Bolsheviks. After the revolution, Zayde was on his way
back home when a Ukrainian >from Zvhil recognized him in a train
station as a Jew and tried to murder him. Zayde escaped by hiding
between train cars on the railroad sidings. He returned to Zvhil,
where he married in 1923, and was able to get out of Russia by
obtaining a visa to Cuba in 1926. In 1955, just before Castro took
over Cuba, the family escaped Cuba for the USA.

That was in my wife's family.

My own father's family was >from the village Szeleslonka (also
known as Leh or as Shirukiy Lug, located between Chust and
Sziget) in the area of former Austro-Hungarian Marmaros which is
now within the southwestern border of the Ukraine.

With the defeat of the Hapsburg Austro-Hungarian empire in WW1
and the death of King Franz Josef in 1919, the Austro-Hungarian
empire disintegrated. When the Russian revolution broke out in that
same year, there was an abortive attempt by ethnic Ukrainians
(Rusyn) who lived both in Russia and in the northeastern regions of
Hungary (bordering the Russian Ukraine) to establish an
independent Ukrainian state. As a part of this larger attempted
political uprising by the Ukrainians, there was a local antisemetic
pogrom carried out in 1919 by the ethnic Ukrainians-Ruthenians in
the village Szeleslonka. The Ruthenians rioted and destroyed
Jewish property and homes and forcibly drove the Jews out of town
in the freezing winter. I don't know if anyone was actually killed in
Szeleslonka, but in the Chust Yizkor Book it is mentioned that
people were in fact killed during this uprising in the nearby city
Chust.

The Jewish refugees >from Szeleslonka hid in the forests and found
refuge in neighboring towns where the local Jewish population was
larger and better able to defend themselves. I am in possession of
family letters giving some details of this pogrom. I was told other
details in speaking with various Holocaust survivors from
Szeleslonka and vicinity.

When some of the young Jewish men >from Szeleslonka who had
served in the Hungarian army in WW1 returned home >from the war
and found out what the local Ruthenians had done, they took
revenge by torching and burning down most of the village.

Order was restored to the area when in 1920 Subcarpathian
Ruthenia (including northern and central Marmaros) was added to
the newly formed state of Czechoslovakia. The Czech army
entered the area and put down the local Ukrainian rabble.

Moshe Davis
Jerusalem


Rabbi POSNER/POZNER in Warsaw in 19th century #rabbinic

Shaul Berger <shaul@...>
 

I am hitting a wall trying to find information about Leib POSNER,
born in Warsaw by middle of 19th century and died around 1928. He
married Chaya and they had more than 7 children born >from 1880-1897.

Leib's brother (or some other close relative) was a famous rabbi in
Warsaw. I hope that someone can point me to a starting point for
this lead

I tried all JewishGen databases but no luck. Any suggestions are
welcome. If anybody is familiar with this POZNER/POSNER family,
please email me as any information or leads are appreciated.


Thank you

Shaul Berger
California
shaul@bergerworld.net

Also researching NEUMAN and NACHT (>from Buczacz), BRUMMER (Lwow),
HUTTER(Przemysl)
OCHOTNICKI & ERENREJCH (>from Kielce area)
Slovakia - BERGER
Hungary - SPITZER (>from Szecseny and Losonc)


Rabbinic Genealogy SIG #Rabbinic Rabbi POSNER/POZNER in Warsaw in 19th century #rabbinic

Shaul Berger <shaul@...>
 

I am hitting a wall trying to find information about Leib POSNER,
born in Warsaw by middle of 19th century and died around 1928. He
married Chaya and they had more than 7 children born >from 1880-1897.

Leib's brother (or some other close relative) was a famous rabbi in
Warsaw. I hope that someone can point me to a starting point for
this lead

I tried all JewishGen databases but no luck. Any suggestions are
welcome. If anybody is familiar with this POZNER/POSNER family,
please email me as any information or leads are appreciated.


Thank you

Shaul Berger
California
shaul@bergerworld.net

Also researching NEUMAN and NACHT (>from Buczacz), BRUMMER (Lwow),
HUTTER(Przemysl)
OCHOTNICKI & ERENREJCH (>from Kielce area)
Slovakia - BERGER
Hungary - SPITZER (>from Szecseny and Losonc)


Re: Sfaradic Jews in Hungary - 1023 - #hungary

George Farkas <gfarkas@...>
 

Yehuda,

This time I was not asking for not expecting any help, just replying to
someone else's question. But in any case, you are right. I should
always be alert to the fact that some chance read could result in a
connection. In this case the family name was "Weisz", which many
Hungarianized to "Vidor". The cousin who was reputed to have (or
have created this family tree going back to the inquisition was Gyuri
Vidor.

Btw, I have periodically asked about them on the list without a positive
reply.

All the best,

george

George Farkas
Montreal

Searching: Farkas, Fried, Altmann, Friedmann, Weisz, Vidor, Links,
Knopfelmacher, Lustig, Spitzer

At 06/06/2005 08:17 AM, Y. Klausner sent the following message:

Dear George,
How do you expect someone to help you if you don't write your mother's
family name.
Best regards Yehuda

Dr. Yehuda Klausner
yklaus@netvision.net.il
yehudakl@bgumail.bgu.ac.il
klausner@alumni.princeton.eduSearching:
KLAUSNER (KLAUZNER, CLOISNER, KLUZNER, etc.), BARZAM, KADISH, BUSHKE
(BOSHKE), ZEINWIRT (ZENVIRT),
EILENBERG (ILENBERG), LIEBERMAN (all spellings), WITKIND, HOCHGELEHRNTER
(GELEHRNTER), ENGLMAN (ENGELMAN), IROM (IRAM)
TEUMIM, MICHELSON Great Britain, South Africa, Rhodesia etc.),
Descendants of Moshe ben Meir KATZNELENBOGEN of Chelm, HERLING,
KATZ, (HaCOHEN, KAHANE, COHEN, etc.) >from Galicia, GRINBERG (all spellings).
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Farkas" <gfarkas@xbisoftware.com>
To: "H-SIG" <h-sig@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2005 5:57 PM
Subject: Re: [h-sig] Sfaradic Jews in Hungary


I was told that my mother's family had been traced to Jews who came from
Spain after the expulsion and that a relative had created a family tree
showing
this genealogy. But I have been unable to get in touch with that relative
or
find anyone who has seen a copy of that family tree.

george

George Farkas
Montreal


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Sfaradic Jews in Hungary - 1023 - #hungary

George Farkas <gfarkas@...>
 

Yehuda,

This time I was not asking for not expecting any help, just replying to
someone else's question. But in any case, you are right. I should
always be alert to the fact that some chance read could result in a
connection. In this case the family name was "Weisz", which many
Hungarianized to "Vidor". The cousin who was reputed to have (or
have created this family tree going back to the inquisition was Gyuri
Vidor.

Btw, I have periodically asked about them on the list without a positive
reply.

All the best,

george

George Farkas
Montreal

Searching: Farkas, Fried, Altmann, Friedmann, Weisz, Vidor, Links,
Knopfelmacher, Lustig, Spitzer

At 06/06/2005 08:17 AM, Y. Klausner sent the following message:

Dear George,
How do you expect someone to help you if you don't write your mother's
family name.
Best regards Yehuda

Dr. Yehuda Klausner
yklaus@netvision.net.il
yehudakl@bgumail.bgu.ac.il
klausner@alumni.princeton.eduSearching:
KLAUSNER (KLAUZNER, CLOISNER, KLUZNER, etc.), BARZAM, KADISH, BUSHKE
(BOSHKE), ZEINWIRT (ZENVIRT),
EILENBERG (ILENBERG), LIEBERMAN (all spellings), WITKIND, HOCHGELEHRNTER
(GELEHRNTER), ENGLMAN (ENGELMAN), IROM (IRAM)
TEUMIM, MICHELSON Great Britain, South Africa, Rhodesia etc.),
Descendants of Moshe ben Meir KATZNELENBOGEN of Chelm, HERLING,
KATZ, (HaCOHEN, KAHANE, COHEN, etc.) >from Galicia, GRINBERG (all spellings).
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Farkas" <gfarkas@xbisoftware.com>
To: "H-SIG" <h-sig@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2005 5:57 PM
Subject: Re: [h-sig] Sfaradic Jews in Hungary


I was told that my mother's family had been traced to Jews who came from
Spain after the expulsion and that a relative had created a family tree
showing
this genealogy. But I have been unable to get in touch with that relative
or
find anyone who has seen a copy of that family tree.

george

George Farkas
Montreal


Re: h-sig digest: June 06, 2005 #hungary

Vivian Kahn
 

Judy,

What is the source for your information that there were only 6 Jewish
households enumerated in the 1848 Jewish Census of Temesvar? The
on-line version of the 1901-06 Jewish Encyclopedia has the following
info about Temesvar:

The earliest Jewish census at Temesvar was taken in 1739, when there
were 139 Ashkenazim and 81 Sephardim (46 families altogether). In 1755
there were 23 Jewish families in the city; 53 in 1772; 76 in 1776; and
72 in 1781. In 1840 the Jewish population of the city was about 1,200,
of whom 750 lived in the citadel, 340 in the city, and about 50 in the
suburbs. In 1858 the number was 2,202; in 1890,4,870; and in 1901,
5,788 (including Jewish soldiers, 5,916). The total population of
Temesvar is 53,033.
Go to http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/index.jsp and click on T to
find the full entry.

Keep in mind that the Hungarian State Archives has census records that
the FHL has not filmed.

Vivian Kahn, Oakland, CA

On Jun 6, 2005, at 11:00 PM, H-SIG digest wrote:

Subject: Temesvar 1848
From: Jbacskai@aol.com
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 03:07:50 EDT
X-Message-Number: 1

On June 1, 2005 Peter I Hidas wrote:
Temesvar was an important Jewish community >from the 17th century. In
1910 6728 Jews lived there. Total pop.: 72,555. The Jews migrated
here
from the Balkans and were Sephardic. In 1840 the Jewish pop. was 960,
by 1880 it grew to 4196.
Peter,
Why does the 1848 Jewish Census list only 6 households? Could nearly
1000
have been overlooked or was there a reason why they were intentionally
left
out? Granted, there were some more Jews in Temesvar who were Turkish
subjects,
but they were given only short term, temporary permits to stay. As far
as I can
tell, that's the only indication (according to correspondence
attached to
the census) for a larger number of Jews in Temesvar in1848.

Judy Bacskai
Kensington, CA


*Re: NEV VALTOZTATASOK - NAME CHANGES - PECS UNIVERSITY #hungary

Tom Venetianer <tom.vene@...>
 

Dear all,

As Robert points out, this is a well known resource, for years available at the FHC library and it was discussed at this forum (see archive of previous threads).

For the newer members, a caveat: this listing is classified according to the "Hungarized" (magyarositott) surname and there is NO REVERSE LOOKUP. Therefor, if you don't know the NEW name your ancestor took there is no way to learn if he changed his surname, unless you browse the complete book (over 500 pages!).

Enjoy, with moderation ;-)
Tom

At 01:00 -0500 07.06.2005, roneu1@yahoo.com wrote:
Subject: Re: NEV VALTOZTATASOK - NAME CHANGES - PECS UNIVERSITY
From: Robert Neu <roneu1@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 01:14:01 -0700 (PDT)
X-Message-Number: 3

This is simply to indicate that this is NOT a newdatabase, as it has been available for years as a book and microfiche >from the FHL. Though of course it's great to have it online.
--
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
Tom Venetianer <mailto:tom.vene@uol.com.br>
Sao Paulo - Brazil


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: h-sig digest: June 06, 2005 #hungary

Vivian Kahn
 

Judy,

What is the source for your information that there were only 6 Jewish
households enumerated in the 1848 Jewish Census of Temesvar? The
on-line version of the 1901-06 Jewish Encyclopedia has the following
info about Temesvar:

The earliest Jewish census at Temesvar was taken in 1739, when there
were 139 Ashkenazim and 81 Sephardim (46 families altogether). In 1755
there were 23 Jewish families in the city; 53 in 1772; 76 in 1776; and
72 in 1781. In 1840 the Jewish population of the city was about 1,200,
of whom 750 lived in the citadel, 340 in the city, and about 50 in the
suburbs. In 1858 the number was 2,202; in 1890,4,870; and in 1901,
5,788 (including Jewish soldiers, 5,916). The total population of
Temesvar is 53,033.
Go to http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/index.jsp and click on T to
find the full entry.

Keep in mind that the Hungarian State Archives has census records that
the FHL has not filmed.

Vivian Kahn, Oakland, CA

On Jun 6, 2005, at 11:00 PM, H-SIG digest wrote:

Subject: Temesvar 1848
From: Jbacskai@aol.com
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 03:07:50 EDT
X-Message-Number: 1

On June 1, 2005 Peter I Hidas wrote:
Temesvar was an important Jewish community >from the 17th century. In
1910 6728 Jews lived there. Total pop.: 72,555. The Jews migrated
here
from the Balkans and were Sephardic. In 1840 the Jewish pop. was 960,
by 1880 it grew to 4196.
Peter,
Why does the 1848 Jewish Census list only 6 households? Could nearly
1000
have been overlooked or was there a reason why they were intentionally
left
out? Granted, there were some more Jews in Temesvar who were Turkish
subjects,
but they were given only short term, temporary permits to stay. As far
as I can
tell, that's the only indication (according to correspondence
attached to
the census) for a larger number of Jews in Temesvar in1848.

Judy Bacskai
Kensington, CA


Hungary SIG #Hungary *Re: NEV VALTOZTATASOK - NAME CHANGES - PECS UNIVERSITY #hungary

Tom Venetianer <tom.vene@...>
 

Dear all,

As Robert points out, this is a well known resource, for years available at the FHC library and it was discussed at this forum (see archive of previous threads).

For the newer members, a caveat: this listing is classified according to the "Hungarized" (magyarositott) surname and there is NO REVERSE LOOKUP. Therefor, if you don't know the NEW name your ancestor took there is no way to learn if he changed his surname, unless you browse the complete book (over 500 pages!).

Enjoy, with moderation ;-)
Tom

At 01:00 -0500 07.06.2005, roneu1@yahoo.com wrote:
Subject: Re: NEV VALTOZTATASOK - NAME CHANGES - PECS UNIVERSITY
From: Robert Neu <roneu1@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 01:14:01 -0700 (PDT)
X-Message-Number: 3

This is simply to indicate that this is NOT a newdatabase, as it has been available for years as a book and microfiche >from the FHL. Though of course it's great to have it online.
--
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
Tom Venetianer <mailto:tom.vene@uol.com.br>
Sao Paulo - Brazil


Don't use the answer key too quickly. #hungary

Georges Graner <georges.graner@...>
 

Dear Siggers,
I chosed the Digest form for H-Sig, so that I receive once a day a long
message containing all yours.
But this single message is usually miles and miles long because many people
use the ANSWER key too quickly, without erasing the content of the previous
message(s). Therefore, the actual answer is sometimes 5 line long but it
contains also 40 lines of the previous message (with > in front of them)
and sometimes 40 more lines of the previous previous message (with > > ).
This is very confusing and irritating.

Please, dear Siggers, when you answer, just keep 3 or 4 lines of the
previous message. It is quite sufficient to recall what it was.
T.I.A.

Georges GRANER (Paris-France)
georges.graner@wanadoo.fr

Moderator: Thanks for this reminder, Georges. Your moderator tries to edit messages but would not need to do so if subscribers reviewed and edited their own messages.


Hungary SIG #Hungary Don't use the answer key too quickly. #hungary

Georges Graner <georges.graner@...>
 

Dear Siggers,
I chosed the Digest form for H-Sig, so that I receive once a day a long
message containing all yours.
But this single message is usually miles and miles long because many people
use the ANSWER key too quickly, without erasing the content of the previous
message(s). Therefore, the actual answer is sometimes 5 line long but it
contains also 40 lines of the previous message (with > in front of them)
and sometimes 40 more lines of the previous previous message (with > > ).
This is very confusing and irritating.

Please, dear Siggers, when you answer, just keep 3 or 4 lines of the
previous message. It is quite sufficient to recall what it was.
T.I.A.

Georges GRANER (Paris-France)
georges.graner@wanadoo.fr

Moderator: Thanks for this reminder, Georges. Your moderator tries to edit messages but would not need to do so if subscribers reviewed and edited their own messages.


Re: Temesvar 1848 #hungary

Peter I.Hidas <thidas@...>
 

On Monday, Jun 6, 2005, at 03:07 Canada/Eastern, Jbacskai@aol.com wrote:

On June 1, 2005 Peter I Hidas wrote:
Temesvar was an important Jewish community >from the 17th century. In
1910 6728 Jews lived there. Total pop.: 72,555. The Jews migrated
here
from the Balkans and were Sephardic. In 1840 the Jewish pop. was 960,
by 1880 it grew to 4196.
Peter,
Why does the 1848 Jewish Census list only 6 households?
I have no idea. That census is obviously incomplete.

Peter
Mississauga, Ontario
Canada

www3.sympatico.ca/thidas
peterhidas@yahoo.com


Re: NEV VALTOZTATASOK - NAME CHANGES - PECS UNIVERSITY #hungary

JGyori@...
 

Dear GenFamily,
I have used and seen this Name Changes Index before, but I've never been
able to find out -- are there "files" or some kind of background details
available for each of these listings?

I might have found my ggrandfather -- Gyori Sandor. He lived in Budapest by
this time, but was born in Gonyu, near Gyor. He was a merchant and, I think,
that his original name was Singer, but I don't know for sure. And since this
listing doesn't show birth place, I can't be sure. And I can't seem to find
his birth record that would list his name change.

And so, my question, are there any additional "files" available at the
Hungarian Archives?
Thank you,
Judi Gyori Missel
Mesa, Arizona


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Temesvar 1848 #hungary

Peter I.Hidas <thidas@...>
 

On Monday, Jun 6, 2005, at 03:07 Canada/Eastern, Jbacskai@aol.com wrote:

On June 1, 2005 Peter I Hidas wrote:
Temesvar was an important Jewish community >from the 17th century. In
1910 6728 Jews lived there. Total pop.: 72,555. The Jews migrated
here
from the Balkans and were Sephardic. In 1840 the Jewish pop. was 960,
by 1880 it grew to 4196.
Peter,
Why does the 1848 Jewish Census list only 6 households?
I have no idea. That census is obviously incomplete.

Peter
Mississauga, Ontario
Canada

www3.sympatico.ca/thidas
peterhidas@yahoo.com


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: NEV VALTOZTATASOK - NAME CHANGES - PECS UNIVERSITY #hungary

JGyori@...
 

Dear GenFamily,
I have used and seen this Name Changes Index before, but I've never been
able to find out -- are there "files" or some kind of background details
available for each of these listings?

I might have found my ggrandfather -- Gyori Sandor. He lived in Budapest by
this time, but was born in Gonyu, near Gyor. He was a merchant and, I think,
that his original name was Singer, but I don't know for sure. And since this
listing doesn't show birth place, I can't be sure. And I can't seem to find
his birth record that would list his name change.

And so, my question, are there any additional "files" available at the
Hungarian Archives?
Thank you,
Judi Gyori Missel
Mesa, Arizona


Re: Sfaradim Jews in Hungary / ROSANES #hungary

Robert Neu
 

The name Rosanics or Rozonics is not Hungarian but
Slavic, the "ics" means simply son of. Check if they
appear on the records of Kismarton/Eisenstadt which
had an early Jewish community.

Robert Neu

--- Ruben Weiser <weiser@ba.net> wrote:

The brother of my greatgrandmother(Schwartz family
from Szabolcs
county),used to say that we are decendents of the
autor of mishne lamelech
,who was rabbi Yehuda Rosanes >from Turkey.
When i ask him how was it posible that we are
ashkenasim and decendents of
sfardim,he answer that all the Schwartz family come
from spain in the
inquisition time.
I never find out any Rosanes living in hungary but i
found some living in
Poland.
this month i found in the 1715 census 3 Rosanics or
Rozonics living in a
small town near Kismarton(Eisenstadt).can they be
jewish?or it is just a
similar hungarian lastname?.
anyone with the same story?

thanks
Ruben Weiser.
Buenos Aires
Argentina


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Sfaradim Jews in Hungary / ROSANES #hungary

Robert Neu
 

The name Rosanics or Rozonics is not Hungarian but
Slavic, the "ics" means simply son of. Check if they
appear on the records of Kismarton/Eisenstadt which
had an early Jewish community.

Robert Neu

--- Ruben Weiser <weiser@ba.net> wrote:

The brother of my greatgrandmother(Schwartz family
from Szabolcs
county),used to say that we are decendents of the
autor of mishne lamelech
,who was rabbi Yehuda Rosanes >from Turkey.
When i ask him how was it posible that we are
ashkenasim and decendents of
sfardim,he answer that all the Schwartz family come
from spain in the
inquisition time.
I never find out any Rosanes living in hungary but i
found some living in
Poland.
this month i found in the 1715 census 3 Rosanics or
Rozonics living in a
small town near Kismarton(Eisenstadt).can they be
jewish?or it is just a
similar hungarian lastname?.
anyone with the same story?

thanks
Ruben Weiser.
Buenos Aires
Argentina