The Greater Manchester Police Museum has a limited number of Alien
Registration Books which they state cover the Salford area only. However,
having seen some of the books and found family information this is not
strictly true as there are some people included for the Manchester area
where they have had to register when they moved >from streets within the then
Manchester districts to Salford or vice versa. Members of JGSGB can
access this information via the Society's website in Members' Corner.

I am replying to Naidia Woolf direct.

Lorna Kay
Chairman - Manchester Regional Group
&
Regional Group Co-ordinator
Jewish Genealogical Society of Great Britain


Researching
WEISBERG (Kamenets Podolsk, Ukraine)
SEABERG (Tukums, Latvia)
KUTCHINSKY (Piotrkow, Russia-Poland)
FROMBERG (Russia)
BLUESTONE (Roumania)
VALENSTEIN (Russia)

The Greater Manchester Police Museum has a limited number of Alien
Registration Books which they state cover the Salford area only. However,
having seen some of the books and found family information this is not
strictly true as there are some people included for the Manchester area
where they have had to register when they moved >from streets within the then
Manchester districts to Salford or vice versa. Members of JGSGB can
access this information via the Society's website in Members' Corner.

I am replying to Naidia Woolf direct.

Lorna Kay
Chairman - Manchester Regional Group
&
Regional Group Co-ordinator
Jewish Genealogical Society of Great Britain


Researching
WEISBERG (Kamenets Podolsk, Ukraine)
SEABERG (Tukums, Latvia)
KUTCHINSKY (Piotrkow, Russia-Poland)
FROMBERG (Russia)
BLUESTONE (Roumania)
VALENSTEIN (Russia)

re: café Sztuka and Braun family members

--
Yes Kris,

Much of this is very helpful. I already know about the Music of Rembrance
group. Pola's poems were not "unpublished," but rather appeared in a book
c. 1946 or 7 in Poland. Also, a researcher of Szlengel tells me that she
rescued two of Pola's poems.

These surviving six poems were not "published" in English, however.

However, the website features a number of articles about the premiere,
"Letter to Warsaw," without updating either journalists or readers that much
more information was located about Pola, and that the closest surviving
relative (my father) was discovered last year. It was through his help that
a great of deal of new material was recovered very recently.

Unfortunately, we've learned the very painful way that not everyone who
works in the field of Holocaust studies chooses to pay homage to victims and
survivors alike. Sometimes, things are just done for personal
aggrandizement, such as what this group did, or didn't do.

When you get the recording, you'll find in the notes that the music was not
dedicated to Pola or any or her colleagues or victims of the Holocaust, and
some of the sources of information upon further digging were not credited.
We'll leave it at that, although I understand Maria von Trapp (of "Sound of
Music" fame) was not even sent an invite to the premiere of the film, and
did not receive a sou of the royalties (give or take the latter).....

Of course as an academic, independent researcher and a descendant of Pola, I
plan to keep records of collected resources, credit citations, and
acknowledge people who have been helpful during the course of this work.

I looked through the Polish Business Directory and couldn't find anything,
but I was looking in Grodno, rather than Bialystok. I will look, anew.
Thanks!

I was wondering about the things you found in the Library of Congress
website, and how you were able to find the index. I did find Herman and
Hermanowa Braun on image 87, but I couldn't determine where to view the
businesses addresses you were able to locate.

I'd very much appreciate it, if you could tell me how to run searches
through these digital materials, as I was not able to bring up the .pdf
version.

My grandfather was a tailor and/or owned a fabric shop in Warsaw c. 1937-9.
His last name was Braun, first Noach or Noah.

Thanks so much for the Leszno address of the café. No one ever told me it
before, and how delightful to finally see a photo of the outside (at
least!).

Best wishes and many thanks



I am just packing for a trip to the West Coast, and therefore responding
only quickly and briefly.
The Braun business addresses are on the same page as the residence addresses
of Herman Braun and Mrs. Braun, some 12 lines up. Those business addresses
are listed as "Braun B-cia" (Brothers Braun). There was one telephone
directory for the city of Warsaw, no separate yellow pages and white pages.
Letter "m." after the name indicates "mieszkanie", i.e., residence. There
is no index as all entries are listed in alphabetical order thus making an
index of a kind.
There is a separate section for government addresses and a section with
advertisements which begins with image 541.
No Braun Noach or Noah is listed in this telephone directory. However,
telephones were not as common as they are now and it is quite likely that a
person would not have a telephone. There is one Braun tailor listed (image
87), but his initial was M. He conducted business at 1 Prosta Street. The
are only three tailors listed in the advertisement section (image 559,
KRAWCY), and there is no Braun among them.
Best regards,
Kris Murawski
Annandale, VA

re: café Sztuka and Braun family members

--
Yes Kris,

Much of this is very helpful. I already know about the Music of Rembrance
group. Pola's poems were not "unpublished," but rather appeared in a book
c. 1946 or 7 in Poland. Also, a researcher of Szlengel tells me that she
rescued two of Pola's poems.

These surviving six poems were not "published" in English, however.

However, the website features a number of articles about the premiere,
"Letter to Warsaw," without updating either journalists or readers that much
more information was located about Pola, and that the closest surviving
relative (my father) was discovered last year. It was through his help that
a great of deal of new material was recovered very recently.

Unfortunately, we've learned the very painful way that not everyone who
works in the field of Holocaust studies chooses to pay homage to victims and
survivors alike. Sometimes, things are just done for personal
aggrandizement, such as what this group did, or didn't do.

When you get the recording, you'll find in the notes that the music was not
dedicated to Pola or any or her colleagues or victims of the Holocaust, and
some of the sources of information upon further digging were not credited.
We'll leave it at that, although I understand Maria von Trapp (of "Sound of
Music" fame) was not even sent an invite to the premiere of the film, and
did not receive a sou of the royalties (give or take the latter).....

Of course as an academic, independent researcher and a descendant of Pola, I
plan to keep records of collected resources, credit citations, and
acknowledge people who have been helpful during the course of this work.

I looked through the Polish Business Directory and couldn't find anything,
but I was looking in Grodno, rather than Bialystok. I will look, anew.
Thanks!

I was wondering about the things you found in the Library of Congress
website, and how you were able to find the index. I did find Herman and
Hermanowa Braun on image 87, but I couldn't determine where to view the
businesses addresses you were able to locate.

I'd very much appreciate it, if you could tell me how to run searches
through these digital materials, as I was not able to bring up the .pdf
version.

My grandfather was a tailor and/or owned a fabric shop in Warsaw c. 1937-9.
His last name was Braun, first Noach or Noah.

Thanks so much for the Leszno address of the café. No one ever told me it
before, and how delightful to finally see a photo of the outside (at
least!).

Best wishes and many thanks



I am just packing for a trip to the West Coast, and therefore responding
only quickly and briefly.
The Braun business addresses are on the same page as the residence addresses
of Herman Braun and Mrs. Braun, some 12 lines up. Those business addresses
are listed as "Braun B-cia" (Brothers Braun). There was one telephone
directory for the city of Warsaw, no separate yellow pages and white pages.
Letter "m." after the name indicates "mieszkanie", i.e., residence. There
is no index as all entries are listed in alphabetical order thus making an
index of a kind.
There is a separate section for government addresses and a section with
advertisements which begins with image 541.
No Braun Noach or Noah is listed in this telephone directory. However,
telephones were not as common as they are now and it is quite likely that a
person would not have a telephone. There is one Braun tailor listed (image
87), but his initial was M. He conducted business at 1 Prosta Street. The
are only three tailors listed in the advertisement section (image 559,
KRAWCY), and there is no Braun among them.
Best regards,
Kris Murawski
Annandale, VA

Genners:
My grandfather Max Jabin was buried at Mt. Hebron cemetary in Flushing NY.
I have been informed that the society to which he belonged was the Tura
Zuhow Lodge.
It is my understanding that this lodge does not exist anymore, but maybe
someone out there has some information about it.
I am hoping to find out the city where my grandfather came >from and when he
came to America.
Thanks
Marilyn Silva
Searching ZALOSZYNSKI/ZALASZYNSKA or variations thereof.

Genners:
My grandfather Max Jabin was buried at Mt. Hebron cemetary in Flushing NY.
I have been informed that the society to which he belonged was the Tura
Zuhow Lodge.
It is my understanding that this lodge does not exist anymore, but maybe
someone out there has some information about it.
I am hoping to find out the city where my grandfather came >from and when he
came to America.
Thanks
Marilyn Silva
Searching ZALOSZYNSKI/ZALASZYNSKA or variations thereof.

Dear Genners and Siggers,
Following my recent posting I got several enquiries
frow which I concluded that I probably did not explain
myself properly.
Yad Vashem is posting in the Pages of Testimony(PoT)
not only testimonies submitted by individuals but also
data about victims >from other sources. They took the
monumental work of Klarsfeld about the deportation of
Jews >from France which includes tens of thousands of
names and posted them as seperate pages of testimony.
Did did the same with a thick volume published in
Germany about German Jews who perished in the
Holocaust.The Auschwitz Museum published in 1995 a
book which includes about 69,000 names of people who
perished there.Later they put that data on the
Museum's website. Recently I realized that the data
which was posted on that website was only partial.
Yad Vashem did an important job,they posted the data

from the book as seperate PoTs. The book gives also

the names of both parents of the victim.
In other words,if you enter the Yad Vashem website,you
do not look for the Auschwitz list!!!You just type the
surname,given name and place of the person you are
looking for. If he was included in the Auschwitz
book(and website)-his name will show up as it is a
page of testimony.
Jacob Rosen
Jerusalem

Dear Genners and Siggers,
Following my recent posting I got several enquiries
frow which I concluded that I probably did not explain
myself properly.
Yad Vashem is posting in the Pages of Testimony(PoT)
not only testimonies submitted by individuals but also
data about victims >from other sources. They took the
monumental work of Klarsfeld about the deportation of
Jews >from France which includes tens of thousands of
names and posted them as seperate pages of testimony.
Did did the same with a thick volume published in
Germany about German Jews who perished in the
Holocaust.The Auschwitz Museum published in 1995 a
book which includes about 69,000 names of people who
perished there.Later they put that data on the
Museum's website. Recently I realized that the data
which was posted on that website was only partial.
Yad Vashem did an important job,they posted the data

from the book as seperate PoTs. The book gives also

the names of both parents of the victim.
In other words,if you enter the Yad Vashem website,you
do not look for the Auschwitz list!!!You just type the
surname,given name and place of the person you are
looking for. If he was included in the Auschwitz
book(and website)-his name will show up as it is a
page of testimony.
Jacob Rosen
Jerusalem

Robert,

The total number of 900 books will be up for sale in
the coming fortnight, the book costs HUF 2760 (appr.
USD 14). 279 pages in Hungarian, an English
translation is being considered right now. Once I have
it in my hands, I will be able to give you further
details.

Best regards,

Andras Koltai
Budapest, Hungary


Subject: Re: Jews in Eger
From: Robert Neu <roneu1@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 00:12:43 -0800 (PST)
X-Message-Number: 5

Hi,
In order to answer as to whether we are interested in
this work, could you indicate what period does the
book cover and in what language it is written?
Thanks
Robert Neu

Moderator: Please contact Andras off-list for further information.

Dear "translator" --

I have a small history of the Jewish community of Hanusovce nad Toplou
(the birthplace of my gggf)which I would like to have translated. It is
in two files:

VM 7400
VM 7401

To view the files please go to:

http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/toview.html

and please send the translation to directly to me, not to H-Sig.

Thanks so very much,

Marian Brown
Cincinnati, OH

Robert,

The total number of 900 books will be up for sale in
the coming fortnight, the book costs HUF 2760 (appr.
USD 14). 279 pages in Hungarian, an English
translation is being considered right now. Once I have
it in my hands, I will be able to give you further
details.

Best regards,

Andras Koltai
Budapest, Hungary


Subject: Re: Jews in Eger
From: Robert Neu <roneu1@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 00:12:43 -0800 (PST)
X-Message-Number: 5

Hi,
In order to answer as to whether we are interested in
this work, could you indicate what period does the
book cover and in what language it is written?
Thanks
Robert Neu

Moderator: Please contact Andras off-list for further information.

Dear "translator" --

I have a small history of the Jewish community of Hanusovce nad Toplou
(the birthplace of my gggf)which I would like to have translated. It is
in two files:

VM 7400
VM 7401

To view the files please go to:

http://data.jewishgen.org/viewmate/toview.html

and please send the translation to directly to me, not to H-Sig.

Thanks so very much,

Marian Brown
Cincinnati, OH

Hello all,
Still seeking info on ancestors/descendants of my Great =
grandparents:
GGF -John Hoffer (b. 1875) Switzerland/Austria=20
Death approx 1930, >from collapsed lung while working in a Sugar House.=20
{His father; my GGGF- Joseph Hoffer (b.???) Married to ?????}
GGM - Elizabeth Koesis/Erzsebet Kocsis (b.1888) Budapest, Hungary. Her =
parents were Hungarian Magyars. She married John Hoffer at 16 years old. =

She died approx 1972 of a stomach tumor.
Elizabeth and John were both still Aliens in 1920 living in New York.
Children of John and Elizabeth:=20
John (b 1915), Joseph,(b?) Mike (b 1916)
Andrew (twin b 1918), Anna (twin b 1918)
Mary (b 1910), Susan (b 1912) and my grandmother:
Irene,(b approx 1921).=20
Also born were several children that died at young ages, one was Steven. =

Cousins are: Dobronski/Dumbroskie and it is possible that one may be still living in NY.

Needless to say, I know both of my great grandparents were Hungarian Jews >from Budapest and Austria/Switzerland, "exactly where" in those =
regions is unknown. I am still trying to piece together information on them and their parents through Ellis Island passenger/arrival lists and =
ship records (where some writing can be very hard to decipher). Family lore claims that the Hoffer ancestors escaped the Nazi regime and =
concentration camps. I have been told that the family converted to Catholicism because the "schools" were better during that time. However, =
it is an understandable question of why my ancestors chose to switch to Catholicism. My innate interest is in the celebration and the tradition =
of the Jewish faith. I have always been Proud of my Jewish heritage especially since being aware that it is only the girls who can pass the =
religion onto their children and so on.

I obtained very useful information >from my cousin Dennis (Susan's son) who was about 8 or 9 when my GGM Elizabeth died. He had previously done =
some research and was able to provide me with crucial dates and names of my Hoffer Aunt's and Uncle's descendants, including birthdates, =
marriages, and children that were born! What a difference a date can make in this sort of research, and of course the compilation and cross =
referencing can be mind boggling and there is much work to be done. I will be adding the pertinent info to my family tree when time allows.

I have not been able to go any further in my Hoffer research of my GGF's parents. I understand that many first given names were carried =
down >from generation to generation. Does that include female names? If so, I found alot on Stevemorse.org and Ellis Island websites for =
possible relatives of my GGM Elizabeth/Erzsebet Koesis. Can anyone assist me in making connection between them?
Elizabeth/Erzsebet Koesis, (b 1851) (GGGM?) >from Bistl Kis Falva =
Hungary, Arriving at Ellis Island Sept. 1921, visiting son George.
Andras Koesis (b 1880)
Anna Koesis (b. 1866) and Erzebet Koesis (b 1868) both Arrived July 21, =
1892
Janos and Anna (married or siblings???) July, 1902 age 43

It has been difficult in pinpointing what area of Budapest they(Hoffer/Koesis) may have lived in before coming to America so I am =
at a standstill. Can anyone assist me in finding Birth/Marriage Records, locations, or Hungarian Census Information?=20

I also need help finding a member who has posted a response on Jan 15, 2006 to my original posting . I received a message board notification =
that a reply was posted by the author: William, with a Subject line: Reply Urgent. This is exciting, yet I am dismayed for I'm having =
difficulty pulling up what he wrote to my original post, therefore I am unable to respond to him.
<snip>

Any assistance or information on any of the above would be greatly =
appreciated.

Thank you. Michele Talerico Renaud, NY, USA
michelerenee217@suscom.net

Moderator: The link to a well-known commercial genealogical service has been deleted. As we have mentioned before, it makes it much easier for others to help your research if you indicate what sources you have already consulted starting with the resources that are available on-line at JewishGen including the JewishGen Family Finder and the All-Hungary Database. You can find additional data at the Hungarian SIG website http://www.jewishgen.org/Hungary/

Hello all,
Still seeking info on ancestors/descendants of my Great =
grandparents:
GGF -John Hoffer (b. 1875) Switzerland/Austria=20
Death approx 1930, >from collapsed lung while working in a Sugar House.=20
{His father; my GGGF- Joseph Hoffer (b.???) Married to ?????}
GGM - Elizabeth Koesis/Erzsebet Kocsis (b.1888) Budapest, Hungary. Her =
parents were Hungarian Magyars. She married John Hoffer at 16 years old. =

She died approx 1972 of a stomach tumor.
Elizabeth and John were both still Aliens in 1920 living in New York.
Children of John and Elizabeth:=20
John (b 1915), Joseph,(b?) Mike (b 1916)
Andrew (twin b 1918), Anna (twin b 1918)
Mary (b 1910), Susan (b 1912) and my grandmother:
Irene,(b approx 1921).=20
Also born were several children that died at young ages, one was Steven. =

Cousins are: Dobronski/Dumbroskie and it is possible that one may be still living in NY.

Needless to say, I know both of my great grandparents were Hungarian Jews >from Budapest and Austria/Switzerland, "exactly where" in those =
regions is unknown. I am still trying to piece together information on them and their parents through Ellis Island passenger/arrival lists and =
ship records (where some writing can be very hard to decipher). Family lore claims that the Hoffer ancestors escaped the Nazi regime and =
concentration camps. I have been told that the family converted to Catholicism because the "schools" were better during that time. However, =
it is an understandable question of why my ancestors chose to switch to Catholicism. My innate interest is in the celebration and the tradition =
of the Jewish faith. I have always been Proud of my Jewish heritage especially since being aware that it is only the girls who can pass the =
religion onto their children and so on.

I obtained very useful information >from my cousin Dennis (Susan's son) who was about 8 or 9 when my GGM Elizabeth died. He had previously done =
some research and was able to provide me with crucial dates and names of my Hoffer Aunt's and Uncle's descendants, including birthdates, =
marriages, and children that were born! What a difference a date can make in this sort of research, and of course the compilation and cross =
referencing can be mind boggling and there is much work to be done. I will be adding the pertinent info to my family tree when time allows.

I have not been able to go any further in my Hoffer research of my GGF's parents. I understand that many first given names were carried =
down >from generation to generation. Does that include female names? If so, I found alot on Stevemorse.org and Ellis Island websites for =
possible relatives of my GGM Elizabeth/Erzsebet Koesis. Can anyone assist me in making connection between them?
Elizabeth/Erzsebet Koesis, (b 1851) (GGGM?) >from Bistl Kis Falva =
Hungary, Arriving at Ellis Island Sept. 1921, visiting son George.
Andras Koesis (b 1880)
Anna Koesis (b. 1866) and Erzebet Koesis (b 1868) both Arrived July 21, =
1892
Janos and Anna (married or siblings???) July, 1902 age 43

It has been difficult in pinpointing what area of Budapest they(Hoffer/Koesis) may have lived in before coming to America so I am =
at a standstill. Can anyone assist me in finding Birth/Marriage Records, locations, or Hungarian Census Information?=20

I also need help finding a member who has posted a response on Jan 15, 2006 to my original posting . I received a message board notification =
that a reply was posted by the author: William, with a Subject line: Reply Urgent. This is exciting, yet I am dismayed for I'm having =
difficulty pulling up what he wrote to my original post, therefore I am unable to respond to him.
<snip>

Any assistance or information on any of the above would be greatly =
appreciated.

Thank you. Michele Talerico Renaud, NY, USA
michelerenee217@suscom.net

Moderator: The link to a well-known commercial genealogical service has been deleted. As we have mentioned before, it makes it much easier for others to help your research if you indicate what sources you have already consulted starting with the resources that are available on-line at JewishGen including the JewishGen Family Finder and the All-Hungary Database. You can find additional data at the Hungarian SIG website http://www.jewishgen.org/Hungary/

There appears to be a mis-understanding about the purpose of
published death notices. In the U.S., this is a legal requirement
as claims on property, inheritance, and debt will need to be resolved.

Local law determines in which newspapers the names of the deceased
must appear. The requirements have varied over time. The announcement
of a person's death might be as simple as a list released by the
Department of Health or in a list of burial permits issued. It may also
take the form of paid notices to indicate when and where the funeral
will take place, and may include the names of heirs - the immediate
family.

Keep in mind that many Jewish community newspapers are published
weekly, not daily. Death announcements might appear in the Jewish
press well after the actual event. For that reason, it is always a good
idea to check both the major daily newspaper of the town as well as the
Jewish community newspapers.

I don't know which towns Mr. Zonder has in mind, but many U.S. cities
in the late 19th and early 20th century had vibrant Jewish communities
numbering in the thousands. The community might be a mix of Reform,
Orthodox, or Hasidic >from many nationalities - each with their own
newspapers. All of these are great resources for the family history
hunter.

regards,
Pat Weinthal
Boston, MA

Lenn Zonder wrote:

<<Published death notices in the early 20th century

from time to time, Genners seeking information on

obituaries >from the late 19th and early 20th centuries
query us about what newspaper Jewish obituaries might
have been listed in. It is just a thought on my part,
but I doubt if any American papers did list them. Jewish
communities of that time were small, rarely
more than a few square blocks. >>

There appears to be a mis-understanding about the purpose of
published death notices. In the U.S., this is a legal requirement
as claims on property, inheritance, and debt will need to be resolved.

Local law determines in which newspapers the names of the deceased
must appear. The requirements have varied over time. The announcement
of a person's death might be as simple as a list released by the
Department of Health or in a list of burial permits issued. It may also
take the form of paid notices to indicate when and where the funeral
will take place, and may include the names of heirs - the immediate
family.

Keep in mind that many Jewish community newspapers are published
weekly, not daily. Death announcements might appear in the Jewish
press well after the actual event. For that reason, it is always a good
idea to check both the major daily newspaper of the town as well as the
Jewish community newspapers.

I don't know which towns Mr. Zonder has in mind, but many U.S. cities
in the late 19th and early 20th century had vibrant Jewish communities
numbering in the thousands. The community might be a mix of Reform,
Orthodox, or Hasidic >from many nationalities - each with their own
newspapers. All of these are great resources for the family history
hunter.

regards,
Pat Weinthal
Boston, MA

Lenn Zonder wrote:

<<Published death notices in the early 20th century

from time to time, Genners seeking information on

obituaries >from the late 19th and early 20th centuries
query us about what newspaper Jewish obituaries might
have been listed in. It is just a thought on my part,
but I doubt if any American papers did list them. Jewish
communities of that time were small, rarely
more than a few square blocks. >>

The Auschwitz records mentioned by Jacob only contain names of inmates
up to and including 1943. Since the deportations >from Hungary started in
1944 it is very unlikely for members of the H-SIG looking for their
Hungarian relatives to find any relevant information in there. I tried
looking for my relatives in that database and failed.

Isaac Katz
Israel

The Auschwitz records mentioned by Jacob only contain names of inmates
up to and including 1943. Since the deportations >from Hungary started in
1944 it is very unlikely for members of the H-SIG looking for their
Hungarian relatives to find any relevant information in there. I tried
looking for my relatives in that database and failed.

Isaac Katz
Israel

I want to raise an important point in that the word "execute" means (World
Book Dictionary) "to put to death according to an order, especially
according to a sentence determined by law".

People were MURDERED at Auschwitz, NOT executed.


Dr Andrew Gal
Sydney. Australia

Moderator: Phone numbers deleted per JewishGen policy.

I want to raise an important point in that the word "execute" means (World
Book Dictionary) "to put to death according to an order, especially
according to a sentence determined by law".

People were MURDERED at Auschwitz, NOT executed.


Dr Andrew Gal
Sydney. Australia

Moderator: Phone numbers deleted per JewishGen policy.