Date   

Erma and Kurt SCHLESINGER, son Henry - incorporation and location questions #general

Melodysdeals
 

Thank you to all that responded. I now know that Erma SCHLESINGER
lived at 1245 Park Ave. and 96th St. - the building that Kurt
SCHLESINGER and Vladmir LEVENTON build. I also sent for the death
certificate of the Kurt Schlesinger that died in Henderson - he is the
wrong one.
Now, I just completed a search and printed all the New York Times
Articles. I have already found Stephen BARKEN, the son of Jesse Barkin,
an attorney on the 1960 realty deal in which they purchased 1245 Park
Ave and 96th Street. They incorporated as 1245 Park Avenue Corporation.
In a NYT 1960 article, they are also referred to as Leventon &
Schlesinger, a real estate firm. I talked with Stephen on the phone
about 2 months ago. He said his father only had a professional
relationship with Kurt Schlesinger. He did have memories of Vladmir -
but only that he was a wise man. I have come to the conclusion that
there would be no reason for Erma to have a social security number. She
never worked and Kurt took care of her financially even after their
divorce in 1945. Henry was gay. So he never married. If Erma is like
the others in the family, her naturalization papers probably do not
have accurate information, if she ever even naturalized. My father and
his other sister did not.
Erma is the correct spelling. I have already order all SSN
original applications on Irma Schlesinger and Erma Schlesinger - no
parents match nor birth country nor maiden name. Henry's birth name
was Horst - his approx. birth year is taken >from the Pennland ship
records. Kurt and Erma married in Germany and Henry/Horst was also born
in Germany. Kurt is probably not alive.

There's a Kurt Schlesinger in the Social Security Death index who lived
in New York, NY 10019 -- which is just south of Central Park. He was
born 24 Apr 1902 and died Jun 1981. I ordered his death certificate -
it is not the correct Kurt.

With this information, I am at a lost for what is the next step.
Suggestions would be helpful.
Melody Mayes nee Pinkus
#292191


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Erma and Kurt SCHLESINGER, son Henry - incorporation and location questions #general

Melodysdeals
 

Thank you to all that responded. I now know that Erma SCHLESINGER
lived at 1245 Park Ave. and 96th St. - the building that Kurt
SCHLESINGER and Vladmir LEVENTON build. I also sent for the death
certificate of the Kurt Schlesinger that died in Henderson - he is the
wrong one.
Now, I just completed a search and printed all the New York Times
Articles. I have already found Stephen BARKEN, the son of Jesse Barkin,
an attorney on the 1960 realty deal in which they purchased 1245 Park
Ave and 96th Street. They incorporated as 1245 Park Avenue Corporation.
In a NYT 1960 article, they are also referred to as Leventon &
Schlesinger, a real estate firm. I talked with Stephen on the phone
about 2 months ago. He said his father only had a professional
relationship with Kurt Schlesinger. He did have memories of Vladmir -
but only that he was a wise man. I have come to the conclusion that
there would be no reason for Erma to have a social security number. She
never worked and Kurt took care of her financially even after their
divorce in 1945. Henry was gay. So he never married. If Erma is like
the others in the family, her naturalization papers probably do not
have accurate information, if she ever even naturalized. My father and
his other sister did not.
Erma is the correct spelling. I have already order all SSN
original applications on Irma Schlesinger and Erma Schlesinger - no
parents match nor birth country nor maiden name. Henry's birth name
was Horst - his approx. birth year is taken >from the Pennland ship
records. Kurt and Erma married in Germany and Henry/Horst was also born
in Germany. Kurt is probably not alive.

There's a Kurt Schlesinger in the Social Security Death index who lived
in New York, NY 10019 -- which is just south of Central Park. He was
born 24 Apr 1902 and died Jun 1981. I ordered his death certificate -
it is not the correct Kurt.

With this information, I am at a lost for what is the next step.
Suggestions would be helpful.
Melody Mayes nee Pinkus
#292191


Warning about unscrupulous researchers! #romania

Rosanne Leeson <rdleeson@...>
 

Dear All,

Judging >from some email messages I have recently received
it is time for the usual warning about unrequested approaches from
individuals who claim to be professional researchers in Romania, who see a
posting asking for information about a certain family, or town records, and
offer to help.

Due to the poor economy in Romania there are those who are desperately
seeking to increase their personal income, at your expense. The few
legitimate professionals do *not* use this approach.

Should you receive such a message volunteering services or information,
either >from an individual or an _organzation_, please contact the
Co-Coordinators of this SIG *before* replying to them in any way, for
more information.

In addition, certain members of this list have used the listings
in the JGFF to contact members and to volunteer information about a
researcher. Please be aware that this is in violation of JewishGen rules
and policy, and has been since the time the JGFF was initiated online!

It appears necessary to remind all that this is a ***private*** mailing
list. Only those posting to it are entitled to receive the messages
that their fellow subscribers post. To forward any message you read
here to someone not subscribed to the list is a violation of the privacy
of the subscriber, and more importantly a violation of the trust we
place in each other by revealing our interests and sometimes family
"secrets".

We expect each and every one of you to honor the privacy and trust we
place in each other.

Private responses to requests on the List are permitted, but
even those should be checked first with the Coordinators!

Remember - Caveat Emptor!
Rosanne and Paula
Your Co-Coordinators


Romania SIG #Romania Warning about unscrupulous researchers! #romania

Rosanne Leeson <rdleeson@...>
 

Dear All,

Judging >from some email messages I have recently received
it is time for the usual warning about unrequested approaches from
individuals who claim to be professional researchers in Romania, who see a
posting asking for information about a certain family, or town records, and
offer to help.

Due to the poor economy in Romania there are those who are desperately
seeking to increase their personal income, at your expense. The few
legitimate professionals do *not* use this approach.

Should you receive such a message volunteering services or information,
either >from an individual or an _organzation_, please contact the
Co-Coordinators of this SIG *before* replying to them in any way, for
more information.

In addition, certain members of this list have used the listings
in the JGFF to contact members and to volunteer information about a
researcher. Please be aware that this is in violation of JewishGen rules
and policy, and has been since the time the JGFF was initiated online!

It appears necessary to remind all that this is a ***private*** mailing
list. Only those posting to it are entitled to receive the messages
that their fellow subscribers post. To forward any message you read
here to someone not subscribed to the list is a violation of the privacy
of the subscriber, and more importantly a violation of the trust we
place in each other by revealing our interests and sometimes family
"secrets".

We expect each and every one of you to honor the privacy and trust we
place in each other.

Private responses to requests on the List are permitted, but
even those should be checked first with the Coordinators!

Remember - Caveat Emptor!
Rosanne and Paula
Your Co-Coordinators


Szydlowiec Jewish Cemetery #poland

Avigdor Ben-Dov <a.bendov@...>
 

Hello, to all,
Yad LeZehava Institute (YZI) in Kedumim, Israel has
finally transcribed the data >from their cemetery
restoration field trip in 2006 to document the Jewish
cemetery in Szydlowiec Poland. Szydlowiec is located
about 25km. >from Radom on the road >from Kielce.
There are about 55 readable tombstones that have been
transcribed and translated. The data is being sent for
posting to JOWBR. In any case, there are few if any
surnames listed in the database.

Surprisingly, many died in the very same short time
period --probably >from cholera --that killed twenty
known people who are listed and whose tombstones are
still standing and readable. This happened very fast--
in the space of two months in 1831. An interesting
historical note.

Can anyone confirm this? Still, some of you
researchers and townspeople or descendents therefrom
may find something in the YZI data that is not
otherwise available and if you can read Hebrew, a
separate database of the data should be uploaded within
a few weeks to the YZI website together with lots of
photos >from the project.

Data >from other Jewish cemeteries are in process of
translation, but we have very limited manpower ( and it
may take a while until all of it coming >from a half-dozen
towns surveyed becomes available online. Anyone with an
interest in the matter can contact me for further general
information, but please no direct queries about private
research. I am doing this strictly as avolunteer researcher
and hope the information gets published as soon as possible
for all to see and use. Zambrow has already been submitted
to JOWBR by me.

Chodesh Tov and Happy Purim
Avigdor Ben-Dov
Kedumim, Israel


JRI Poland #Poland Szydlowiec Jewish Cemetery #poland

Avigdor Ben-Dov <a.bendov@...>
 

Hello, to all,
Yad LeZehava Institute (YZI) in Kedumim, Israel has
finally transcribed the data >from their cemetery
restoration field trip in 2006 to document the Jewish
cemetery in Szydlowiec Poland. Szydlowiec is located
about 25km. >from Radom on the road >from Kielce.
There are about 55 readable tombstones that have been
transcribed and translated. The data is being sent for
posting to JOWBR. In any case, there are few if any
surnames listed in the database.

Surprisingly, many died in the very same short time
period --probably >from cholera --that killed twenty
known people who are listed and whose tombstones are
still standing and readable. This happened very fast--
in the space of two months in 1831. An interesting
historical note.

Can anyone confirm this? Still, some of you
researchers and townspeople or descendents therefrom
may find something in the YZI data that is not
otherwise available and if you can read Hebrew, a
separate database of the data should be uploaded within
a few weeks to the YZI website together with lots of
photos >from the project.

Data >from other Jewish cemeteries are in process of
translation, but we have very limited manpower ( and it
may take a while until all of it coming >from a half-dozen
towns surveyed becomes available online. Anyone with an
interest in the matter can contact me for further general
information, but please no direct queries about private
research. I am doing this strictly as avolunteer researcher
and hope the information gets published as soon as possible
for all to see and use. Zambrow has already been submitted
to JOWBR by me.

Chodesh Tov and Happy Purim
Avigdor Ben-Dov
Kedumim, Israel


Re: Shimeck #poland

jurek.hirschberg@...
 

Szymek (pronounced Shimeck) is the diminutive of Szymon which is the
Polish spelling of Shimon.

Regards,
Jurek Hirschberg

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Shimeck
From: "Nuno Wahnon Martins" <nunobw@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 15:10:11 +0000
X-Message-Number: 1

(...) I wonder if Shimeck was a petit nom or a real Yidish name.

Regards,
Nuno Wahnon Martins


JRI Poland #Poland Re: Shimeck #poland

jurek.hirschberg@...
 

Szymek (pronounced Shimeck) is the diminutive of Szymon which is the
Polish spelling of Shimon.

Regards,
Jurek Hirschberg

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Shimeck
From: "Nuno Wahnon Martins" <nunobw@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 15:10:11 +0000
X-Message-Number: 1

(...) I wonder if Shimeck was a petit nom or a real Yidish name.

Regards,
Nuno Wahnon Martins


Leopold GODOWSKY #lithuania

Marion Hattenbach Bernstein
 

Dear Litvaks,

I am trying to prove a connection between my husband's GODOFSKY
family, primarily >from Merkine, and the famous
composer/pianist/conductor Leopold GODOWSKY.

I just ran across a fantastic article in the Palestine Post about
GODOWSKY's quest for a birth certificate that was foiled by changed
borders in the 1930's. In Vilna, he sought to get a taxi to the
"suburb" of Shoshli and was told that it was over the border in
Lithuania. (Vilna at that time was Polish) The most likely place to
fit this description was Zasliai, but I would hardly consider it a
"suburb" of Vilna!

Another hint was that Zasliai's records in the All Lithuania Database
include some RADOVSKYs, who are likely to be relatives. (RADOVSKY and
GODOFSKY may have once been the same family.)

Can anyone shed some light on this?

Marion H. Bernstein
San Antonio, TX


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania Leopold GODOWSKY #lithuania

Marion Hattenbach Bernstein
 

Dear Litvaks,

I am trying to prove a connection between my husband's GODOFSKY
family, primarily >from Merkine, and the famous
composer/pianist/conductor Leopold GODOWSKY.

I just ran across a fantastic article in the Palestine Post about
GODOWSKY's quest for a birth certificate that was foiled by changed
borders in the 1930's. In Vilna, he sought to get a taxi to the
"suburb" of Shoshli and was told that it was over the border in
Lithuania. (Vilna at that time was Polish) The most likely place to
fit this description was Zasliai, but I would hardly consider it a
"suburb" of Vilna!

Another hint was that Zasliai's records in the All Lithuania Database
include some RADOVSKYs, who are likely to be relatives. (RADOVSKY and
GODOFSKY may have once been the same family.)

Can anyone shed some light on this?

Marion H. Bernstein
San Antonio, TX


Re: An mtDNA and Y-DNA match #dna

Ben Forman <ben.forman@...>
 

On 2008.03.05, Bob Kosovsky <kos@panix.com> wrote:

Has anyone figured the probability of this kind of situation - where
both a Y-DNA and mtDNA match points to the same person?
Hi Bob

I don't know what the exact statistical chance of this happening is,
but i would guess that it is not unlikely, since 50% of Ashkenazi
Jews are descended >from the same 5 female ancestors. As for the male
side, you have to remember that the time scales that DNA tests deal
with are 1000s of years, and during that time the population has
expanded rapidly, and the Ashkenazi Jewish community too has
expanded between the late 1700s and 1900s very rapidly, 10
Generations is around 200 years ago which would fit with this kind
of population expansion.

A very useful website with regards to DNA statistics within all
population groups is <http://vetinarilord.blogspot.com/>. You might
need to search a bit but there are several papers there of interest
to Jewish Genetics researchers.

Best
Ben Forman


DNA Research #DNA RE: An mtDNA and Y-DNA match #dna

Ben Forman <ben.forman@...>
 

On 2008.03.05, Bob Kosovsky <kos@panix.com> wrote:

Has anyone figured the probability of this kind of situation - where
both a Y-DNA and mtDNA match points to the same person?
Hi Bob

I don't know what the exact statistical chance of this happening is,
but i would guess that it is not unlikely, since 50% of Ashkenazi
Jews are descended >from the same 5 female ancestors. As for the male
side, you have to remember that the time scales that DNA tests deal
with are 1000s of years, and during that time the population has
expanded rapidly, and the Ashkenazi Jewish community too has
expanded between the late 1700s and 1900s very rapidly, 10
Generations is around 200 years ago which would fit with this kind
of population expansion.

A very useful website with regards to DNA statistics within all
population groups is <http://vetinarilord.blogspot.com/>. You might
need to search a bit but there are several papers there of interest
to Jewish Genetics researchers.

Best
Ben Forman


Hurwitz/Neumegen Academy, Highgate/Kew #unitedkingdom

Irina Fridman
 

Dear Genners,

Could anyone advise me where the records of the above Academy are held (if any)?

Regards,
Irina Shub
Chatham, UK


JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom Hurwitz/Neumegen Academy, Highgate/Kew #unitedkingdom

Irina Fridman
 

Dear Genners,

Could anyone advise me where the records of the above Academy are held (if any)?

Regards,
Irina Shub
Chatham, UK


KAPLANS in England #unitedkingdom

rlmilton@...
 

Greetings;
My records show that the Solomon KAPLAN family lived in England long enough to have
at least four children, Anna Rebecca (1877), Louie (1879), Samuel (1880), and Carrie (1886).
In 1887, the family moved to the US, settling in Memphis, Tenn. I am not sure where
the family lived while in England, possibly in London or Liverpool? Also unknown
is the port of departure, or ship name. Also do not know when or where Solomon and
wife, Gussie COHEN met and were married, or any family members left in England.
I appreciate any information or suggestions.

Renee Lehman Milton
Coos Bay, Oregon
rlmilton@verizon.net

Researching: COHEN in Germany, England, US; KAPLAN in Poland/Russia, England, US;
LEHMAN in Germany, US.


JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom KAPLANS in England #unitedkingdom

rlmilton@...
 

Greetings;
My records show that the Solomon KAPLAN family lived in England long enough to have
at least four children, Anna Rebecca (1877), Louie (1879), Samuel (1880), and Carrie (1886).
In 1887, the family moved to the US, settling in Memphis, Tenn. I am not sure where
the family lived while in England, possibly in London or Liverpool? Also unknown
is the port of departure, or ship name. Also do not know when or where Solomon and
wife, Gussie COHEN met and were married, or any family members left in England.
I appreciate any information or suggestions.

Renee Lehman Milton
Coos Bay, Oregon
rlmilton@verizon.net

Researching: COHEN in Germany, England, US; KAPLAN in Poland/Russia, England, US;
LEHMAN in Germany, US.


variations in a surname's spelling #galicia

Renee Steinig
 

Molly Rund didn't say where she saw the varying spellings. If they
were in European records, consider the possibility that the person
who appeared to register a birth or marriage was literate in Yiddish
but did not have a set way to spell his name in Latin characters.
The registrar/rabbi may have spelled the name as he saw fit.

In the case of the United States census -- probably not where Molly
searched but interesting anyway -- it is my understanding that
census enumerators were instructed to write names as they heard
them, without taking the time to ask for spelling.

Most genealogists have encountered similar problems. That's why
Soundexes were developed. A tip for using the Daitch-Mokotoff
Soundex on JewishGen-hosted databases (including JRI, but excluding
Steve Morse's Ellis Island One-Step): If you're sure of the first
letter of the name (or the first two or three or more...) put those
letters in brackets to limit your results. For example, a "Sounds
Like" search on JRI-Poland for [GR]ABER will give you names
resembling GRABER that begin with GR; the same search without
brackets will also bring up names like GERBER, HARPER, and KORBER.

Renee

Renee Stern Steinig
Dix Hills, New York, USA
genmaven@gmail.com


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia variations in a surname's spelling #galicia

Renee Steinig
 

Molly Rund didn't say where she saw the varying spellings. If they
were in European records, consider the possibility that the person
who appeared to register a birth or marriage was literate in Yiddish
but did not have a set way to spell his name in Latin characters.
The registrar/rabbi may have spelled the name as he saw fit.

In the case of the United States census -- probably not where Molly
searched but interesting anyway -- it is my understanding that
census enumerators were instructed to write names as they heard
them, without taking the time to ask for spelling.

Most genealogists have encountered similar problems. That's why
Soundexes were developed. A tip for using the Daitch-Mokotoff
Soundex on JewishGen-hosted databases (including JRI, but excluding
Steve Morse's Ellis Island One-Step): If you're sure of the first
letter of the name (or the first two or three or more...) put those
letters in brackets to limit your results. For example, a "Sounds
Like" search on JRI-Poland for [GR]ABER will give you names
resembling GRABER that begin with GR; the same search without
brackets will also bring up names like GERBER, HARPER, and KORBER.

Renee

Renee Stern Steinig
Dix Hills, New York, USA
genmaven@gmail.com


Re: Vienna civil marriage information #austria-czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Following my posting last week about civil/mixed marriages in Vienna, I
received a number of interesting replies. Jo Feitler also remarked on the term
Konfessionlos which appeared both on his own printed Vienna Gymnasium report
card and that of his mother, a generation earlier.

Jo's card had the following printed on it:
? = Katholisch (Roman Catholic)
M = Mosaisch (the official term for Jewish)
A.B. = Lutheran (Augsburger Bekenntnis)
H.B. = Helvetisches Bekenntnis
(the Swiss version of Protestant
K = Konfessionslos (no religion; in my classes,
mostly "Jewish" whose parents did not want to
pay the "Kultussteuer" to support the IKG;
the Catholics and Protestant paid their
Kultussteuer for state use for those religions

One questioner asked me to try and find out exactly when these mixed marriages
were legalised. In researching the LEIMDORFER family for Oliver Bryk, [another
posting will follow], I found a partial answer written in a charming [undated]
letter >from Hungary: "Yesterday I took part in a ball .... organised by the
local Jewry ..... to celebrate the new law that legalises mixed marriages,
between Jew and Gentile. So, my beloved Annicska, I warn you, behave nicely
towards me! Consider, >from now on I could marry any Gentile girl I liked!"

The reference: http://tinyurl.com/35hfuh "By Grace Alone" Juliana Ray 1985
{Go to p. 14} quotes the time corresponding to the coronation of the Emperor
Franz Josef as Emperor of Hungary, namely 28 July 1867.

However, the Maigesetze appear to be the formal legal statutes and they were
enacted on 25 May 1868 see: http://tinyurl.com/2x4yrl

What amused me was that a ball was held to celebrate the event!

Celia Male [U.K.]


LEIMDORFER - in Moravia, Hungary, Croatia, Vienna and Zagreb. #austria-czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Oliver Bryk wrote to several of us with a question about the LEIMDORFER family
and their origins: One of my relatives was Ella BRYK, born 1888 in Vienna. Ella
was my ggf Adolf's daughter >from his second marriage (in 1880 to Anna
JELENKIEWICZ). His first wife, Bettina MAHL who died young in 1877, is buried
in Waehring.

Ella married Aladar LEIMDORFER, [umlaut o] born 1880 (I don't know where). They

had three sons; the oldest was born in 1913, probably in Pecs. Aladar was the
general manager of a successful wood products business "Nasitzer Dampfsaege und
Tanninfabrik" with 5 factories, with branches in Austria and Hungary; he was
also mayor of Susine-Durdenovac until his death in 1936. Nasitz (Nasice) is a
town of modest size west of Zagreb (Agram); Durdenovac is a village northwest
of Nasice, in the part of Croatia known as Slavonia. (My parents and I stayed
with the LEIMDORFER family for several months in 1935.)"

I did a modicum of research on the LEIMDORFER for Oliver but this was the first
time I had heard the name. There is certainly scope for research in Vienna
where several are buried. We all know the maxim that once you have heard about
something for the first time, it reappears all the time and you wonder why you
have not heard of it before. Well this has just happened to me with LEIMDORFER.
I have today come across Prof Dr. Adolf LEIMDORFER, first rabbi of the unified
congregation of Wallachisch Meseritsch [Valaske Mezerici] and Mahrisch
Weisskirchen [Hranice], Moravia in the period, 1892-1894. I have no indication
as to where Adolf LEIMDORFER came from.

Furthermore we can read here that the granddaughter of the Chief rabbi
LEIMDORFER escaped >from Budapest to *Zagreb* in WW2, so I presume these
families were indeed related. Paul Lendvai - Vienna 1998 - Blacklisted: A
Journalist's Life in Central Europe: http://tinyurl.com/257bak

This chief rabbi LEIMDORFER is most probably David LEIMDORFER born Hlinik,
Hungary, 17 September 1851: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Leimd%C3%B6rfer

I now wonder if Oliver's LEIMDORFER family is perhaps a branch of a Moravian
family which wandered off to Hungary and later to Agram, Croatia and Vienna and
kept in touch throughout their diaspora? If we can locate more LEIMDORFER in
Moravia we may learn more about this family and its branches.

And here is a Hungarian LEIMDORFER/LEIMDORFFER saga - see confusing family tree
with no dates!: [p.12]: http://tinyurl.com/35hfuh

"By Grace Alone" Juliana Ray 1985

If you read the book on-line, you will see the family had relatives in Vienna -
and I feel they are the links Oliver is looking for. I do hope so - the three
LEIMDORFER: Aladar in Zagreb, the rabbi Adolf and Armin in the above book may
all be named after a common ancestor - Abraham. Certainly this family had a
grandfather Alexander who was very active in the wood and forest products
business. This may have been a family business trading throughout the Habsburg
Empire.

Celia Male [U.K.]