Date   

Russian Name? #lithuania

steve-eller <steve-eller@...>
 

My grandfather's surname in the USA was SMITH, but in Lithuania the family's actual surname was pronounced SEN-DJUL. It has just occured to me that the initial sound of the second syllable cannot be written in either Hebrew, or Yiddish.

The closest I can come to the initial sound of the second syllable is a letter of the Russian alphabet that I've been told is pronounced like the "s" is "pleasure" making the name sound something like SEND-"s"UL or SEN-"s"UL


(1) Why would a Jewish family have a name that couldn't be written in the
language they spoke? (2) Can anyone who knows Russian please comment on
whether of not our family name is a Russian name and, if so, what might be its meaning. (3) Would having a Russian surname be unusual or of any
particular significance?

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please sign your messages with your full name.


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania Russian Name? #lithuania

steve-eller <steve-eller@...>
 

My grandfather's surname in the USA was SMITH, but in Lithuania the family's actual surname was pronounced SEN-DJUL. It has just occured to me that the initial sound of the second syllable cannot be written in either Hebrew, or Yiddish.

The closest I can come to the initial sound of the second syllable is a letter of the Russian alphabet that I've been told is pronounced like the "s" is "pleasure" making the name sound something like SEND-"s"UL or SEN-"s"UL


(1) Why would a Jewish family have a name that couldn't be written in the
language they spoke? (2) Can anyone who knows Russian please comment on
whether of not our family name is a Russian name and, if so, what might be its meaning. (3) Would having a Russian surname be unusual or of any
particular significance?

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please sign your messages with your full name.


Is a shokhet a Rabbi? #lithuania

Morris Stillman <stillmm@...>
 

A shokhet is NOT A RABBI - but he could be - just as you can have an MS and a PHD.

Many shokhtim WERE Rabbis, but certainly not all.


MORRIS STILLMAN <bold>stillmm@cybernex.net

</bold> also: <bold>stillmm@vjmail.com </bold>(backup e-mail address)


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania Is a shokhet a Rabbi? #lithuania

Morris Stillman <stillmm@...>
 

A shokhet is NOT A RABBI - but he could be - just as you can have an MS and a PHD.

Many shokhtim WERE Rabbis, but certainly not all.


MORRIS STILLMAN <bold>stillmm@cybernex.net

</bold> also: <bold>stillmm@vjmail.com </bold>(backup e-mail address)


1874 Vilna Family List #lithuania

K.& L. Bertelsen <klb@...>
 

We recently received some more information >from the Vilnius Archives
including a Family List for 1874, to which had been added a declaration
dated June 1886 by one of the older children regarding three of his
sisters who were born after 1874.

Their parents were married in December 1865 and we now have some details
about their twelve known children born between 4th December 1867 and 1st
September 1883, but we do not have actual dates of birth for some of these
children.

The 1886 declaration was made by a son born ca.1867/8. He was 6 1/2 years
at the time of the 1874 List, but we do not have his actual birth date, but
assume he was born sometime in 1867/8. We have received a birth record
for another son born 4th December 1867 - 12 months after the date of his
parents' marriage; but this child was not listed on the 1874 list and
presumably he may have died before 1874).

As we know there was definitely at least one set of twins in this family of
12 known children, it is possible that these two boys were twins, but so
far Vilnius has not found a birth record for the surviving son, who was
still alive in 1886. At this stage we do not have any more information
about this son, who may have survived to have a family, who may have been
in Vilna at the time of the nazi invasion and slaughter.

I think someone listed the actual dates or months of the Vilna censuses
some time ago, but although I have searched the FAQ and the notes on the
Revision Lists and my own records, I cannot find this information.

Can someone please tell me the actual date or month-range of the 1874 Novy
Gorod/Vilna census - this will help me determine if these two boys were in
fact twins. TIA.

Lorraine Bertelsen
Boho downunder

.


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania 1874 Vilna Family List #lithuania

K.& L. Bertelsen <klb@...>
 

We recently received some more information >from the Vilnius Archives
including a Family List for 1874, to which had been added a declaration
dated June 1886 by one of the older children regarding three of his
sisters who were born after 1874.

Their parents were married in December 1865 and we now have some details
about their twelve known children born between 4th December 1867 and 1st
September 1883, but we do not have actual dates of birth for some of these
children.

The 1886 declaration was made by a son born ca.1867/8. He was 6 1/2 years
at the time of the 1874 List, but we do not have his actual birth date, but
assume he was born sometime in 1867/8. We have received a birth record
for another son born 4th December 1867 - 12 months after the date of his
parents' marriage; but this child was not listed on the 1874 list and
presumably he may have died before 1874).

As we know there was definitely at least one set of twins in this family of
12 known children, it is possible that these two boys were twins, but so
far Vilnius has not found a birth record for the surviving son, who was
still alive in 1886. At this stage we do not have any more information
about this son, who may have survived to have a family, who may have been
in Vilna at the time of the nazi invasion and slaughter.

I think someone listed the actual dates or months of the Vilna censuses
some time ago, but although I have searched the FAQ and the notes on the
Revision Lists and my own records, I cannot find this information.

Can someone please tell me the actual date or month-range of the 1874 Novy
Gorod/Vilna census - this will help me determine if these two boys were in
fact twins. TIA.

Lorraine Bertelsen
Boho downunder

.


The Sugihara Diplomats for Life Foundation (under creation) #lithuania

Freddy OPSOMER <opsomer@...>
 

We are preparing setting up the "Sugihara Diplomats for Life
Foundation"
The foundation will be founded together with the Japanese Sugihara
family as a public Institution to be headquartered in Kovno Lithuania.
The late Japanese consul-general saved thousands of Jews by issuing
transit visa against his own government.
People interested in the initiatif can receive more information. Please
contact Freddy Opsomer in Antwerpen Belgium (www.eurogreen.be) at the
e-mail adress : opsomer@ibm.net


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania The Sugihara Diplomats for Life Foundation (under creation) #lithuania

Freddy OPSOMER <opsomer@...>
 

We are preparing setting up the "Sugihara Diplomats for Life
Foundation"
The foundation will be founded together with the Japanese Sugihara
family as a public Institution to be headquartered in Kovno Lithuania.
The late Japanese consul-general saved thousands of Jews by issuing
transit visa against his own government.
People interested in the initiatif can receive more information. Please
contact Freddy Opsomer in Antwerpen Belgium (www.eurogreen.be) at the
e-mail adress : opsomer@ibm.net


Census Info for Romania #general

Abe Weinman <abediw@...>
 

Does anyone know if census are available for Husi or Vaslui , Romania
are available between 1860 and 1910? If so, how do I go about obtaining
them and are they translated? As a newbie, I hope these aren't
unsophisticated questions. Thanks.
Abe Weinman


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Census Info for Romania #general

Abe Weinman <abediw@...>
 

Does anyone know if census are available for Husi or Vaslui , Romania
are available between 1860 and 1910? If so, how do I go about obtaining
them and are they translated? As a newbie, I hope these aren't
unsophisticated questions. Thanks.
Abe Weinman


Re: Tanchum (first name) #general

David Ziants <davidz@...>
 

Ken Shapiro <kshapiro@umd5.umd.edu> asked:
I just got the results of having a rabbi translate the hebrew
on the tombstones of my family. He said he'd never seen this
name Tanchum before. Anybody out there heard this one?
Moadim v'simcha and Chag Kasher V'Sameach (Happy Pesach) to everyone.

Someone who is born around the period of Tisha B'Av (9th Av) which occurs
around August time, could be given this name as this comes >from the
root "nachem" (Nun Het Mem) meaning "comfort" and the preceding month of
Tammuz and the beginning of Av is a sad period. Similar names are Nachum,
Menachem, Nachman, etc. which fall into the same class, though Tanchum
is certainly not as common as these others. Having such name is no proof
of month of birth, but can help substantiate other evidence.

There is a Rebbi Tanchum who was one of the later Tanayim (sing. Tanna
scholar whose learnings were compiled into the Mishna and B'raitot, which
became the basis for the Talmud) , lived in the Land of Israel approx.
200 CE, and is quoted occasionally both in the Bavli and Yerushalmi
(Babylonian and Jerusalem Talmuds). It is conceivable that a family who
likes this Tanna's words, would name a son after him (unless the son was
directly named after a relative).

By the way, a very similar and unusual name appears twice in the
Tanach (Bible). The name is Tanchumet (Taf, Nun, Het, Mem, Tav)
which refers to the father of S'raya in:
a) M'lachim Bet (Kings II) 25:23
b) Yirmeyahu (Jeremia) 40:8

David Ziants
Ma'aleh Adumim, Israel

MODERATOR NOTE : This thread was closed because it had become
repetitive. However, this message gives new information on the
subject. We are temporarily reopening this thread.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Tanchum (first name) #general

David Ziants <davidz@...>
 

Ken Shapiro <kshapiro@umd5.umd.edu> asked:
I just got the results of having a rabbi translate the hebrew
on the tombstones of my family. He said he'd never seen this
name Tanchum before. Anybody out there heard this one?
Moadim v'simcha and Chag Kasher V'Sameach (Happy Pesach) to everyone.

Someone who is born around the period of Tisha B'Av (9th Av) which occurs
around August time, could be given this name as this comes >from the
root "nachem" (Nun Het Mem) meaning "comfort" and the preceding month of
Tammuz and the beginning of Av is a sad period. Similar names are Nachum,
Menachem, Nachman, etc. which fall into the same class, though Tanchum
is certainly not as common as these others. Having such name is no proof
of month of birth, but can help substantiate other evidence.

There is a Rebbi Tanchum who was one of the later Tanayim (sing. Tanna
scholar whose learnings were compiled into the Mishna and B'raitot, which
became the basis for the Talmud) , lived in the Land of Israel approx.
200 CE, and is quoted occasionally both in the Bavli and Yerushalmi
(Babylonian and Jerusalem Talmuds). It is conceivable that a family who
likes this Tanna's words, would name a son after him (unless the son was
directly named after a relative).

By the way, a very similar and unusual name appears twice in the
Tanach (Bible). The name is Tanchumet (Taf, Nun, Het, Mem, Tav)
which refers to the father of S'raya in:
a) M'lachim Bet (Kings II) 25:23
b) Yirmeyahu (Jeremia) 40:8

David Ziants
Ma'aleh Adumim, Israel

MODERATOR NOTE : This thread was closed because it had become
repetitive. However, this message gives new information on the
subject. We are temporarily reopening this thread.


Researching GEVELBAR (from anywhere), REINER (from Holland) #general

David Ziants <davidz@...>
 

Since I just put out a detailed posting of my paternal side, I would also
like to re-post, briefly, concerning my maternal side.

My (maternal) grandfather was Jacob or Jack (Hebrew name Ya'acov) GABLE
and his father's (Hebrew) name was Aharon. Aaron bore >from a second
marriage my grandfather Jack, and two other sons Alan and Ted.

Aharon's family name was GEVELBA, were >from (continent) Europe somewhere
but we don't anything more. The sons changed the name:
Jack: GABLE; Alan: RAVELLE; Ted: GALE .
The family was brought up in the E.End of London, and were very anglicised.

from the first marriage there was Sonia (and possibly another son who went
to Switzerland). I would very much like to make contact with Sonia's two
children (maybe more) who would now be aged approx. 50 or 60 yrs. Sonia
used to visit my grandparents (Bea and Jack GABLE), during WWII, when my
mother was a child. She might have lived in Finsbury Park, North London at
the time, but my grandparents had already moved to Edgware, Middx.

The parents of my grandmother (may she have many more years) were Sarah and
Joe (Hebrew name Yossef) REINER and one of these families came >from Holland.

Any knowledge would be welcome.

--
David Ziants
Ma'aleh Adumim, Israel


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Researching GEVELBAR (from anywhere), REINER (from Holland) #general

David Ziants <davidz@...>
 

Since I just put out a detailed posting of my paternal side, I would also
like to re-post, briefly, concerning my maternal side.

My (maternal) grandfather was Jacob or Jack (Hebrew name Ya'acov) GABLE
and his father's (Hebrew) name was Aharon. Aaron bore >from a second
marriage my grandfather Jack, and two other sons Alan and Ted.

Aharon's family name was GEVELBA, were >from (continent) Europe somewhere
but we don't anything more. The sons changed the name:
Jack: GABLE; Alan: RAVELLE; Ted: GALE .
The family was brought up in the E.End of London, and were very anglicised.

from the first marriage there was Sonia (and possibly another son who went
to Switzerland). I would very much like to make contact with Sonia's two
children (maybe more) who would now be aged approx. 50 or 60 yrs. Sonia
used to visit my grandparents (Bea and Jack GABLE), during WWII, when my
mother was a child. She might have lived in Finsbury Park, North London at
the time, but my grandparents had already moved to Edgware, Middx.

The parents of my grandmother (may she have many more years) were Sarah and
Joe (Hebrew name Yossef) REINER and one of these families came >from Holland.

Any knowledge would be welcome.

--
David Ziants
Ma'aleh Adumim, Israel


Message for Errol SCHNEEGURT #general

zerakodesh@...
 

Hello

I would like very much to be in touch with Errol SCHNEEGURT as we are both
researching the FEINSTEIN family >from the Ukraine.

Thank you
Esther Feinstein Sackheim


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Message for Errol SCHNEEGURT #general

zerakodesh@...
 

Hello

I would like very much to be in touch with Errol SCHNEEGURT as we are both
researching the FEINSTEIN family >from the Ukraine.

Thank you
Esther Feinstein Sackheim


Searching WEINTRAUB- Tarnogrod , Poland #general

JmWeintrau <jmweintrau@...>
 

I am searching for any Weintraubs in Tarnogrod , Poland late 1800's to early
1900's. Also looking for Glazers in Przemysl, Poland in the same period of
time.

Jim Weintraub


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Searching WEINTRAUB- Tarnogrod , Poland #general

JmWeintrau <jmweintrau@...>
 

I am searching for any Weintraubs in Tarnogrod , Poland late 1800's to early
1900's. Also looking for Glazers in Przemysl, Poland in the same period of
time.

Jim Weintraub


Searching: ZENETSKI, ISHMA and FRIEDMAN from Narewka #general

David Ziants <davidz@...>
 

Wishing everyone a happy Pesach.

It has been quite a while since I published my search interest to
Jewishgen's discussion group, and I wish to put it out again in case
there are some new subscribers with ideas.

I am trying to find out about my paternal great-great grandparents and
their community life in Narewka (Narifka) which is in the Bialystok region.

The ancestry on both my grandfather's and grandmother's side, migrated
from there to the East End of London, UK, at the beginning of the century
with the wave of immigration >from Eastern Europe. My grandparents had met
and married in the mid-30s when my grandfather, through the "landsman"
connections, worked in the bakery owned by my grandmother's parents.

My grandfather (who passed away just over a year ago) was the youngest of
seven sisters. The oldest two sisters were sent to England a number of
years ahead of the rest of the family, I guess to earn money to bring the
rest of the family over. The family eventually left when my grandfather
Moshe (Morry) was 4 years old. My grandfather's father Mordechai ZENETSKI,
adopted the name Marks ZIANTS. Mordechai's father's name was Aryeh, he was
married to Alka (became Alice) and worked as a shoe maker in the old
country, and possibly also in England.

Concerning my grandmother's side (may she have many more years):
Her parent's family name ISHMA was changed to DAVIDSON and their names
were Alter Yossef and Esther.

My grandmother's maternal grandparents' family name was FRIEDMAN.
A descendent of the FRIEDMAN branch was the late Lord Samuel FISHER of
Camden, who became the head of the Board of Deputies of Anglo-Jewry.

I have already been told that the name ZENETSKI might indicate that the
family could have migrated >from the village of Sanniki, a generation or
two earlier.

Why ZENETSKI was "anglicised" to ZIANTS, which does not sound very English,
and is Russian/Polish for hare, is still a mystery. Possibly they didn't
realise that names beginning with "Z" are not very palatable on the
British tongue, until it was too late. Could they have started using the
name ZIANTS in the shtetl after the oldest daughters had left for England?

A big curiousity is the family name ISHMA, because of its unusualness.
Some of this family (or the FRIEDMAN family - am not quite sure which)
lived in Warsaw and perished in the Holocaust.

I have already made contact with a number of people whose families also
came >from Narewka, and a small mailing list was formed by someone in the
group.

If you either have ideas about the names in question, or you have any
information on Narewka, please be in touch.

With thanks in advance,

David Ziants
Ma'aleh Adumim, Israel


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Searching: ZENETSKI, ISHMA and FRIEDMAN from Narewka #general

David Ziants <davidz@...>
 

Wishing everyone a happy Pesach.

It has been quite a while since I published my search interest to
Jewishgen's discussion group, and I wish to put it out again in case
there are some new subscribers with ideas.

I am trying to find out about my paternal great-great grandparents and
their community life in Narewka (Narifka) which is in the Bialystok region.

The ancestry on both my grandfather's and grandmother's side, migrated
from there to the East End of London, UK, at the beginning of the century
with the wave of immigration >from Eastern Europe. My grandparents had met
and married in the mid-30s when my grandfather, through the "landsman"
connections, worked in the bakery owned by my grandmother's parents.

My grandfather (who passed away just over a year ago) was the youngest of
seven sisters. The oldest two sisters were sent to England a number of
years ahead of the rest of the family, I guess to earn money to bring the
rest of the family over. The family eventually left when my grandfather
Moshe (Morry) was 4 years old. My grandfather's father Mordechai ZENETSKI,
adopted the name Marks ZIANTS. Mordechai's father's name was Aryeh, he was
married to Alka (became Alice) and worked as a shoe maker in the old
country, and possibly also in England.

Concerning my grandmother's side (may she have many more years):
Her parent's family name ISHMA was changed to DAVIDSON and their names
were Alter Yossef and Esther.

My grandmother's maternal grandparents' family name was FRIEDMAN.
A descendent of the FRIEDMAN branch was the late Lord Samuel FISHER of
Camden, who became the head of the Board of Deputies of Anglo-Jewry.

I have already been told that the name ZENETSKI might indicate that the
family could have migrated >from the village of Sanniki, a generation or
two earlier.

Why ZENETSKI was "anglicised" to ZIANTS, which does not sound very English,
and is Russian/Polish for hare, is still a mystery. Possibly they didn't
realise that names beginning with "Z" are not very palatable on the
British tongue, until it was too late. Could they have started using the
name ZIANTS in the shtetl after the oldest daughters had left for England?

A big curiousity is the family name ISHMA, because of its unusualness.
Some of this family (or the FRIEDMAN family - am not quite sure which)
lived in Warsaw and perished in the Holocaust.

I have already made contact with a number of people whose families also
came >from Narewka, and a small mailing list was formed by someone in the
group.

If you either have ideas about the names in question, or you have any
information on Narewka, please be in touch.

With thanks in advance,

David Ziants
Ma'aleh Adumim, Israel