Date   

Re: Publishing genealogies #general

Stan Goodman <SPAM_FOILER@...>
 

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 04:41:46 UTC, tulse04-news@yahoo.co.uk (Nick) opined:

I have experienced a very distant connection (the precise relationship I don't
know) sending me a copy of my familytree with details of my immediate family
with their birth dates and their relationships to each other.

I know that if I were to mention this to my close relations that they would be
very concerned that someone who has very little connection to them has obtained
this information which includes children of school age.

In fact, they would be very angry and would want to know how she got hold of the
information.
But the fact that she did ought to be a clue that the information is out there,
and that it is obtainable by anyone interested, whether you publish or not. One
can adopt any number of philosophies about what degree of privacy is required or
necessary; some of them are more attached to reality than others. An extreme one
such as you suggest is in fact an invitation to abandon meaningful genealogy in
favor of a less intrusive hobby, such as building ships in bottles or collecting
stamps, which would kill time as effectively as genealogy.

There is therefore a question of when does a connection stop being family - they
might be family in terms of a familytree but someone whose relationship goes
back to 1800 hardly counts as family in most people's understanding.
The paragraph above defines an approach to genealogy which may be termed
"dabbling"; it is certainly not a serious one. Personally, I have lines going back
to the middle of the 18th century, and do regard those earliest progenitors as
family, and the same is true for their descendants, cousins of degree four, five,
and more. That is why I do this often tedious work. If I could push my tree
further back, I would do so. My joke with friends is that I would really like to
get it back to at least one Homo Erectus.

I have a family in Jerusalem that was unknown to me until about three years ago,
although I have been in this country for forty years. They have been in Jerusalem
since the mid-nineteenth century. I got to them only by having worked down to
present-day persons (including two that had died in the preceding few years). Had
I not done all that work (and had I not had the cooperation of the Hevra Qadisha
and the Interior Ministry), I would not have found them at all, which would have
been a great personal loss to me, and an equal one to my genealogy project. Only
my ability to trace their ancestry back until it linked with my own enabled me to
prove to them that we are related, as they were initially dubious. None of this
would have happened, had I played by your rules.

At that degree of separation I would be related to half the Jews in London.
Are you saying that this would not be a good thing?

--
Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better). the URL is:
http://www.hashkedim.com

For reasons connected with anti-spam/junk security, the return address is not
valid. To communicate with me, please visit my website (see the URL above -- no
Java required for this purpose) and fill in the email form there.


Re: Publishing genealogies #general

Yisrael Asper
 

Historically short of family ties being forced to be recognized further by inlaws
through some intramarriage of children or grandchildren only when Jewish families
split into different Jewish ethnic groupings did they stop thinking in terms of
someone being a member of their family. Let's say a Lithuanian Jew settled amongst
Polish Jews and married into their community and all his children and
grandchildren and greatgrandchildren did likewise, the greatgrandchildren if all
these generations were raised only in Poland, were known as Polish. Who usually
goes beyond the generation level of parents and grandparents? They could even
think that they could not possibly have "Litvaks" as ancestors! The Holocaust and
the establishment of the State of Israel with the fleeing of Arabic Jews caused
the Jews to scatter about so that many Jews still can't point to their countries
if present residence as "the Old Country" consequently many family ties are
recognized further. Just as it took a bit of a while for Germanic Jews fleeing the
Crusades to view their new Eastern European countries as "their country" with
their identity being Eastern European Jewish so after the tumult of the twentieth
century is it the same. Their will come a time though when English speaking Jews
for instance will stop thinking of their ethnicity as >from the "Old Country" but
it will happen. When things are settled you can have even the farthest distant
relatives thinking of themselves as relatives. Think of a family for instance
living for generations in the same town with no outsiders either ethnically or
from even another town mixing in the family. What is there for them to make a
cutoff point? There is none then. Further no one would be afraid of some strange
outsider getting information on them. Their is no outsider.
Yisrael Asper
yisraelasper@comcast.net
Pittsburgh PA


...There is therefore a question of when does a connection stop being family...
--
Nick Landau
London, UK


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Publishing genealogies #general

Stan Goodman <SPAM_FOILER@...>
 

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 04:41:46 UTC, tulse04-news@yahoo.co.uk (Nick) opined:

I have experienced a very distant connection (the precise relationship I don't
know) sending me a copy of my familytree with details of my immediate family
with their birth dates and their relationships to each other.

I know that if I were to mention this to my close relations that they would be
very concerned that someone who has very little connection to them has obtained
this information which includes children of school age.

In fact, they would be very angry and would want to know how she got hold of the
information.
But the fact that she did ought to be a clue that the information is out there,
and that it is obtainable by anyone interested, whether you publish or not. One
can adopt any number of philosophies about what degree of privacy is required or
necessary; some of them are more attached to reality than others. An extreme one
such as you suggest is in fact an invitation to abandon meaningful genealogy in
favor of a less intrusive hobby, such as building ships in bottles or collecting
stamps, which would kill time as effectively as genealogy.

There is therefore a question of when does a connection stop being family - they
might be family in terms of a familytree but someone whose relationship goes
back to 1800 hardly counts as family in most people's understanding.
The paragraph above defines an approach to genealogy which may be termed
"dabbling"; it is certainly not a serious one. Personally, I have lines going back
to the middle of the 18th century, and do regard those earliest progenitors as
family, and the same is true for their descendants, cousins of degree four, five,
and more. That is why I do this often tedious work. If I could push my tree
further back, I would do so. My joke with friends is that I would really like to
get it back to at least one Homo Erectus.

I have a family in Jerusalem that was unknown to me until about three years ago,
although I have been in this country for forty years. They have been in Jerusalem
since the mid-nineteenth century. I got to them only by having worked down to
present-day persons (including two that had died in the preceding few years). Had
I not done all that work (and had I not had the cooperation of the Hevra Qadisha
and the Interior Ministry), I would not have found them at all, which would have
been a great personal loss to me, and an equal one to my genealogy project. Only
my ability to trace their ancestry back until it linked with my own enabled me to
prove to them that we are related, as they were initially dubious. None of this
would have happened, had I played by your rules.

At that degree of separation I would be related to half the Jews in London.
Are you saying that this would not be a good thing?

--
Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: >from Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: >from Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: >from Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: >from Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better). the URL is:
http://www.hashkedim.com

For reasons connected with anti-spam/junk security, the return address is not
valid. To communicate with me, please visit my website (see the URL above -- no
Java required for this purpose) and fill in the email form there.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Publishing genealogies #general

Yisrael Asper
 

Historically short of family ties being forced to be recognized further by inlaws
through some intramarriage of children or grandchildren only when Jewish families
split into different Jewish ethnic groupings did they stop thinking in terms of
someone being a member of their family. Let's say a Lithuanian Jew settled amongst
Polish Jews and married into their community and all his children and
grandchildren and greatgrandchildren did likewise, the greatgrandchildren if all
these generations were raised only in Poland, were known as Polish. Who usually
goes beyond the generation level of parents and grandparents? They could even
think that they could not possibly have "Litvaks" as ancestors! The Holocaust and
the establishment of the State of Israel with the fleeing of Arabic Jews caused
the Jews to scatter about so that many Jews still can't point to their countries
if present residence as "the Old Country" consequently many family ties are
recognized further. Just as it took a bit of a while for Germanic Jews fleeing the
Crusades to view their new Eastern European countries as "their country" with
their identity being Eastern European Jewish so after the tumult of the twentieth
century is it the same. Their will come a time though when English speaking Jews
for instance will stop thinking of their ethnicity as >from the "Old Country" but
it will happen. When things are settled you can have even the farthest distant
relatives thinking of themselves as relatives. Think of a family for instance
living for generations in the same town with no outsiders either ethnically or
from even another town mixing in the family. What is there for them to make a
cutoff point? There is none then. Further no one would be afraid of some strange
outsider getting information on them. Their is no outsider.
Yisrael Asper
yisraelasper@comcast.net
Pittsburgh PA


...There is therefore a question of when does a connection stop being family...
--
Nick Landau
London, UK


Attention Vileika Uyezd #belarus

David M. Fox <davefox73@...>
 

Dear Vileika Uyezd Researchers.

Our sources in Vilna have started sending translated files of the 1834
Vileika district Revision List. I just received the following:

Vileika's traders - 30 line
Iliya's traders - 60 lines
Dolginovo's traders - 17 lines
Vileika - 297 lines
Radoshkovichi - 1930 lines

These records cannot be added to the All Belarus Database until additional
donations are received.

However, we are running out of funds that were left over after the the 1850
Vileika District Revision Lists were finished. Therefore, we need for you
and other Vileika researchers to go to:

http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/v_projectslist.asp?project_cat=1

and make a generous contribution to the Vileika Uyezd Revision List Project.

PLEASE contact other Vileika researchers and your relatives and ask them to
do the same. We want to finish getting all the 1834 records and then try
and find some additional Vileika records.

Your immediate action is requested.

Thanks,

Dave
--
David Fox
Mail to: davefox73@earthlink.net
Belarus SIG Founder and Past Coordinator
Arnold, MD USA
http://www.jewishgen.org/belarus


Searching A. PERLMAN, Cleveland, OH, c. 1910 #belarus

Eileen Price <eileen.price@...>
 

Dear SIG members,

The name of Abraham PERLMAN was listed as the informant on death certificate
of my maternal grandfather and maternal great aunt, both of Cleveland, Ohio.
The two years are 1910 and 1912.
Perhaps he knew the family back in Brest Litovsk.
If anyone has any information about this person, please contact me
privately.
Thank you very much.

Eileen Price
Denver, CO
eileen.price@worldnet.att.net


Belarus SIG #Belarus Attention Vileika Uyezd #belarus

David M. Fox <davefox73@...>
 

Dear Vileika Uyezd Researchers.

Our sources in Vilna have started sending translated files of the 1834
Vileika district Revision List. I just received the following:

Vileika's traders - 30 line
Iliya's traders - 60 lines
Dolginovo's traders - 17 lines
Vileika - 297 lines
Radoshkovichi - 1930 lines

These records cannot be added to the All Belarus Database until additional
donations are received.

However, we are running out of funds that were left over after the the 1850
Vileika District Revision Lists were finished. Therefore, we need for you
and other Vileika researchers to go to:

http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen-erosity/v_projectslist.asp?project_cat=1

and make a generous contribution to the Vileika Uyezd Revision List Project.

PLEASE contact other Vileika researchers and your relatives and ask them to
do the same. We want to finish getting all the 1834 records and then try
and find some additional Vileika records.

Your immediate action is requested.

Thanks,

Dave
--
David Fox
Mail to: davefox73@earthlink.net
Belarus SIG Founder and Past Coordinator
Arnold, MD USA
http://www.jewishgen.org/belarus


Belarus SIG #Belarus Searching A. PERLMAN, Cleveland, OH, c. 1910 #belarus

Eileen Price <eileen.price@...>
 

Dear SIG members,

The name of Abraham PERLMAN was listed as the informant on death certificate
of my maternal grandfather and maternal great aunt, both of Cleveland, Ohio.
The two years are 1910 and 1912.
Perhaps he knew the family back in Brest Litovsk.
If anyone has any information about this person, please contact me
privately.
Thank you very much.

Eileen Price
Denver, CO
eileen.price@worldnet.att.net


the MARKUS family from new york #belarus

yael halamchi <m44w33@...>
 

Dear sigers:

Im looking information about the family of mordki and lea MARCUS >from new
york city.
mordki and lea came to ny >from yassi in romnia,mordki died in the 20s he and
lea had 7 childern two of then where mike and isidor. one of there childern
was colonel micky marcus who came to isreal in 1948 and killed near
jerusalem his fall name was michal-david.
yours
yeal halacmi
isreal
resarch:michnowich,sidoorski and katz >from svir belarus


Belarus SIG #Belarus the MARKUS family from new york #belarus

yael halamchi <m44w33@...>
 

Dear sigers:

Im looking information about the family of mordki and lea MARCUS >from new
york city.
mordki and lea came to ny >from yassi in romnia,mordki died in the 20s he and
lea had 7 childern two of then where mike and isidor. one of there childern
was colonel micky marcus who came to isreal in 1948 and killed near
jerusalem his fall name was michal-david.
yours
yeal halacmi
isreal
resarch:michnowich,sidoorski and katz >from svir belarus


SITE CITE Re: Castle Garden immigration records and history #germany

A & B Algaze <Algaze@...>
 

Christopher Massur wrote: "Last week someone brought this web-site to my
attention: http://www.castlegarden.org/
it contains the early arrivals to New York >from the 1830's until the Ellis
Island data base takes over. Good luck"

For a talk I gave recently, I complied the following list of resources for
Soundex/Index lists for passengers arriving into New York. Hopefully it
will be helpful for researchers trying to find arrival data for their
relatives:

Index/Soundex lists available for Passenger Arrivals into the Port of New
York City 1820 - 1948

ON THE INTERNET

1820 – 1850 http://www.Ancestry.com
1830 – 1897 http://www.castlegarden.org
1851 – 1891 http://www.Ancestry.com
1892 – 1924 http://www.EllisIsland.com
or http://www.StevenMorse.org

AVAILABLE THROUGH NARA AND THE FAMILY HISTORY LIBRARY
1820 – 1846 NARA #M261 103 Rolls
1847 – 1896 No Index Available
1897 – 1902 NARA #T519 115 Rolls
1902 – 1943 NARA #T621 744 Rolls
1944 – 1948 NARA #M1417 92 Rolls

For more details, check out:

http://home.att.net/~wee-monster/onlinelists.html

I hope this helps in your research.

Barbara Algaze Los Angeles, California Algaze@comcast.net


German SIG #Germany SITE CITE Re: Castle Garden immigration records and history #germany

A & B Algaze <Algaze@...>
 

Christopher Massur wrote: "Last week someone brought this web-site to my
attention: http://www.castlegarden.org/
it contains the early arrivals to New York >from the 1830's until the Ellis
Island data base takes over. Good luck"

For a talk I gave recently, I complied the following list of resources for
Soundex/Index lists for passengers arriving into New York. Hopefully it
will be helpful for researchers trying to find arrival data for their
relatives:

Index/Soundex lists available for Passenger Arrivals into the Port of New
York City 1820 - 1948

ON THE INTERNET

1820 – 1850 http://www.Ancestry.com
1830 – 1897 http://www.castlegarden.org
1851 – 1891 http://www.Ancestry.com
1892 – 1924 http://www.EllisIsland.com
or http://www.StevenMorse.org

AVAILABLE THROUGH NARA AND THE FAMILY HISTORY LIBRARY
1820 – 1846 NARA #M261 103 Rolls
1847 – 1896 No Index Available
1897 – 1902 NARA #T519 115 Rolls
1902 – 1943 NARA #T621 744 Rolls
1944 – 1948 NARA #M1417 92 Rolls

For more details, check out:

http://home.att.net/~wee-monster/onlinelists.html

I hope this helps in your research.

Barbara Algaze Los Angeles, California Algaze@comcast.net


Cremieux Benevolent Society (Cypress Hills Cemetery) #germany

alhelcleg@...
 

I am seeking information on the history of the Cremieux Benevolent
Society in New York which operated >from about 1851 to 1938. My
ancestors named MEHRINGER are buried in Cypress Hills Cemetery in
graves owned by the Cremieux Benevolent Society. Any background
information on the Society would be appreciated.

Alice Wolfteich Atlantic Beach, New York alhelcleg@aol.com

MOD NOTE: The Cypress Hills area is on the border of Brooklyn and Queens
and is served by the "Jackie Robinson Parkway" aka Interboro Parkway.
A number of Jewish cemeteries are located there including the one mentioned
above. Others include Union Field Cemetery which was founded by Cong. Rodeph
Shalom, one of the major Reform Jewish congregations in New York.

It is difficult to reach this area using public transportation. 2006 Conference
organizers might be encouraged organize group trips to this area. Otherwise,
GerSIG can help setting up car pools. I'm a frequent visitor to Union Field
Cemetery and can testify to both the large number of German Jewish family plots
there and also the difficulty involved in getting there. John Lowens - MOD 1


German SIG #Germany Cremieux Benevolent Society (Cypress Hills Cemetery) #germany

alhelcleg@...
 

I am seeking information on the history of the Cremieux Benevolent
Society in New York which operated >from about 1851 to 1938. My
ancestors named MEHRINGER are buried in Cypress Hills Cemetery in
graves owned by the Cremieux Benevolent Society. Any background
information on the Society would be appreciated.

Alice Wolfteich Atlantic Beach, New York alhelcleg@aol.com

MOD NOTE: The Cypress Hills area is on the border of Brooklyn and Queens
and is served by the "Jackie Robinson Parkway" aka Interboro Parkway.
A number of Jewish cemeteries are located there including the one mentioned
above. Others include Union Field Cemetery which was founded by Cong. Rodeph
Shalom, one of the major Reform Jewish congregations in New York.

It is difficult to reach this area using public transportation. 2006 Conference
organizers might be encouraged organize group trips to this area. Otherwise,
GerSIG can help setting up car pools. I'm a frequent visitor to Union Field
Cemetery and can testify to both the large number of German Jewish family plots
there and also the difficulty involved in getting there. John Lowens - MOD 1


2006 Conference - Research at LBI #germany

A & B Algaze <Algaze@...>
 

I am very much looking forward to the IAJGS conference to be held in New
York City in August of 2006. I am especially interested in doing genealogical
research at the Leo Baeck Institute. I understand that it is part of the
Center for Jewish History and is located at 15 W 16th Street in Manhattan.
[Aprox. 15 to 20 minutes by subway or shuttle bus >from Conference headquarters.]

I would be interested in hearing >from anyone who has done any genealogical
research at Leo Baeck Institute and had success (or perhaps did not have success).

What was your experience? What were you looking for? What did you find?
Was the staff knowledgeable? Were they helpful? Any suggestions for searching
the on-line catalogue and doing research on site?

Barbara Algaze Los Angeles, California Algaze@comcast.net


German SIG #Germany 2006 Conference - Research at LBI #germany

A & B Algaze <Algaze@...>
 

I am very much looking forward to the IAJGS conference to be held in New
York City in August of 2006. I am especially interested in doing genealogical
research at the Leo Baeck Institute. I understand that it is part of the
Center for Jewish History and is located at 15 W 16th Street in Manhattan.
[Aprox. 15 to 20 minutes by subway or shuttle bus >from Conference headquarters.]

I would be interested in hearing >from anyone who has done any genealogical
research at Leo Baeck Institute and had success (or perhaps did not have success).

What was your experience? What were you looking for? What did you find?
Was the staff knowledgeable? Were they helpful? Any suggestions for searching
the on-line catalogue and doing research on site?

Barbara Algaze Los Angeles, California Algaze@comcast.net


Re: A ' Parnas ' in Burgkunstadt #germany

Martha LEV-ZION <martha@...>
 

I was unable to locate any information on these graves in Josef
Motschmann's wonderful book "GUTER ORT" Uber dem Maintal about the
Jewish cemetery of Burgkunstadt.

Martha Lev-Zion Omer, Israel <martha@bgu.ac.il>

17 Aug 2005 "Tomer Brunner, in Israel." wrote:
In 2003, I visited the cemetery in Burgkunstadt, which served also the
Altenkunstadt community.
While there I found an interesting tombstone of a "PARNAS and MANHIG
HaMEDINA ("leader of the state)". > His name is Avraham Shmuel, son of David
(there was another name next to David, but I couldn't read it clearly).
He died on 1670.
Next to this tombstone there was another one of a woman named Elkeli (?),
daughter of Asher HaLevi and wife of the "Parnas and Manhig HaMedina"
Zanwil Kronach. She died 1681. Zanwil is a nickname for Shmuel,
so I guess that Zanwil Kronach is Avraham Shmuel son of David.
Does anybody have information about this person or can reffer me to
sources about him? Thanks and best regards, Tomer Brunner, Israel.

MOD NOTE: There is a book describing this cemetery and listing
all the grave inscriptions......


German SIG #Germany Re: A ' Parnas ' in Burgkunstadt #germany

Martha LEV-ZION <martha@...>
 

I was unable to locate any information on these graves in Josef
Motschmann's wonderful book "GUTER ORT" Uber dem Maintal about the
Jewish cemetery of Burgkunstadt.

Martha Lev-Zion Omer, Israel <martha@bgu.ac.il>

17 Aug 2005 "Tomer Brunner, in Israel." wrote:
In 2003, I visited the cemetery in Burgkunstadt, which served also the
Altenkunstadt community.
While there I found an interesting tombstone of a "PARNAS and MANHIG
HaMEDINA ("leader of the state)". > His name is Avraham Shmuel, son of David
(there was another name next to David, but I couldn't read it clearly).
He died on 1670.
Next to this tombstone there was another one of a woman named Elkeli (?),
daughter of Asher HaLevi and wife of the "Parnas and Manhig HaMedina"
Zanwil Kronach. She died 1681. Zanwil is a nickname for Shmuel,
so I guess that Zanwil Kronach is Avraham Shmuel son of David.
Does anybody have information about this person or can reffer me to
sources about him? Thanks and best regards, Tomer Brunner, Israel.

MOD NOTE: There is a book describing this cemetery and listing
all the grave inscriptions......


'DEATH AT SEA' QUESTION #unitedkingdom

Shirley Collier <shirley.collier@...>
 

I was at Kew yesterday and I looked up the Register of Deaths at Sea for
Ena. I went through practically the whole of 1912 and I discovered that
most of the deaths at sea recorded in that Register were >from ports other
than Southampton.

I queried this with the Research desk. I said I thought it very unlikely,
considering the numbers of deaths recorded in the Register, that the ships
leaving Southampton that year would have had what appeared to be almost 100%
safe passage for all its passengers.

They were unable to come up with any reason for this so I have now sent an
official enquiry to the National Archives and hope they might have an answer
as to whether there are any other Registers of Deaths at Sea available for
ships
leaving Southampton bound for New York, and where they might be, especially
for the ship in question, the Majestic >from the White Star Line, which ended
its sailing career in
dock at Morecombe in 1914.

Does anyone have any other ideas? Are deaths at sea shown on ships
manifests other than the Ellis Island ones which appear to be for arrivals
of passengers? If so, how does access them?

Shirley Collier
East of London UK

Researching:
BERMAN/BEARMAN - Piesk,Lublin/Warsaw/Philadelphia/London
HARRIS - Sieradz/Hull/London
ROZAINSKY/WAPNASH - Rozan/Czestochowa/New York/London
TILLES/TRINKENREICH - Tarnow/Krakow/Newcastle/London


Re: 'DEATH AT SEA' QUESTION #unitedkingdom

Naomi Fellerman <nfellerman@...>
 

Dear Ena

The National Archives at Kew do hold "Death at Sea" records and you can
information about them at:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/familyhistory/bmd/step9b.htm

Most information is searchable in person, but if you cannot get there
they will do the research for you for a fee, details are available on:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/research/paid_research.htm

Regards

Naomi Fellerman
Edgware, UK