Date   

Re: Citizenship after WWI #galicia

Bev Beiman <bbevy@...>
 

Fellow researcher M. Goldberger drew my attention to the relevant clauses of
the Treaty of Peace between the Allied and Associate Powers and Austria. The
answer is that Galitzianers were automatically granted Polish citizenship
BUT they had a 12-month period to opt for Austrian citizenship. Very few of them > did.

My new question is: WHY?
The truth is, I don't know the answer why, but I can add something to
the mystery.

My Galician family spent WWone in Vienna. After the war they spent
their time waiting for one of my uncles to return >from a Russian POW
camp and tending various members of the family back in Bucaczowce who
were caught up (and died) in the Spanish Flu epidemic.

The family moved to The Netherlands in 1920.

At the archives in The Hague I found passport applications, before
they became citizens of Holland, for my grandfather and several of my
older uncles dated in the 20s. They were not granted passports but
rather Laissez Passers as "stateless persons", noting that the country
they came from, namely the Austrian Empire, no longer existed and they
therefore had no citizenship at all.

I don't have the documents at hand for the exact wording, but that is
the gist of it.

Beverly Shulster
Yehud, Israel


Ressler-Raskin #general

Michael D. Friedman, CEBS <FriedmanGenealogy@...>
 

I am searching for descendents of Abraham Ressler, including Gertrude
"Gussie" Glassman Ressler Friedman. Abraham was my ggrandmother's brother.
She died in Europe. He is buried in Mt. Zion Cemetery in Maspeth, Queens,
New York.

Please contact me at the address below.

Thank you!

Michael Friedman
Michael@...

Researching: Friedman & Finkel (Grodno); Lechner (Gorodenka); Zimmer &
Quicksilver (Chernovitz & Verachenka)


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia Re: Citizenship after WWI #galicia

Bev Beiman <bbevy@...>
 

Fellow researcher M. Goldberger drew my attention to the relevant clauses of
the Treaty of Peace between the Allied and Associate Powers and Austria. The
answer is that Galitzianers were automatically granted Polish citizenship
BUT they had a 12-month period to opt for Austrian citizenship. Very few of them > did.

My new question is: WHY?
The truth is, I don't know the answer why, but I can add something to
the mystery.

My Galician family spent WWone in Vienna. After the war they spent
their time waiting for one of my uncles to return >from a Russian POW
camp and tending various members of the family back in Bucaczowce who
were caught up (and died) in the Spanish Flu epidemic.

The family moved to The Netherlands in 1920.

At the archives in The Hague I found passport applications, before
they became citizens of Holland, for my grandfather and several of my
older uncles dated in the 20s. They were not granted passports but
rather Laissez Passers as "stateless persons", noting that the country
they came from, namely the Austrian Empire, no longer existed and they
therefore had no citizenship at all.

I don't have the documents at hand for the exact wording, but that is
the gist of it.

Beverly Shulster
Yehud, Israel


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Ressler-Raskin #general

Michael D. Friedman, CEBS <FriedmanGenealogy@...>
 

I am searching for descendents of Abraham Ressler, including Gertrude
"Gussie" Glassman Ressler Friedman. Abraham was my ggrandmother's brother.
She died in Europe. He is buried in Mt. Zion Cemetery in Maspeth, Queens,
New York.

Please contact me at the address below.

Thank you!

Michael Friedman
Michael@...

Researching: Friedman & Finkel (Grodno); Lechner (Gorodenka); Zimmer &
Quicksilver (Chernovitz & Verachenka)


Re: Citizenship after WWI #galicia

Brian J. Lenius <brian@...>
 

I don't usually (maybe never before) wade in on a debate without very
concrete information, but I find this question rather interesting. The
answer, once discovered, can provide all researchers with a small piece of
history to add to their family histories.

Lancy Spalter:

Fellow researcher M. Goldberger drew my attention to the relevant clauses
of
the Treaty of Peace between the Allied and Associate Powers and Austria.
The
answer is that Galitzianers were automatically granted Polish citizenship
BUT they had a 12-month period to opt for Austrian citizenship. Very few
of
them did.

My new question is: WHY?
= Were they unaware of this option?
= Were they too "busy" trying to survive the post-war rigors to care for
citizenship?
= Were there guidelines of the Jewish Councils as to which nationality to
choose?

If any of the GG mavens has answers, please share them.
Thanks to Lancy Spalter for this thought provoking and relevant question and
to M. Goldberger for the subsequent info re: "Treaty of Peace" clauses. Is
it possible that there might be other clauses in this treaty that might
spell out conditions to opt for Austiran citizenship?

The answer to Lancy's question should be of interest, not only all Jewish
Galicianers but, to those of all other ethnic groups in Galicia as well. It
is also a question where maybe looking at other ethnic groups might provide
some insight for Jewish researchers.

While mulling this over in my mind, it seems that one point would be
obvious. Those who were ethnic Poles would not wish to become Austrian
citizens for one obvious reason - the new country was created effectively
for them. As for all the rest, Ukrainian, Jewish, and German (to name the
major ones) - it seems the same decision (or "none decision" really) was
made. It is always easier to "not" make a decision (i.e. "do nothing") and
so that might have been part of it. While Lancy's third possibility might
have been true (I don't know), it seems that perhaps one of the first 2
possibilities or maybe even a 4th could have been the main reason -
something more universal.

The vast majority of not only Ukrainians, but also those of German
ethnicity, did not become Austrian citizens. This I can personally state
this with fair certainty. It is perhaps most striking that almost all
German "colonists" also did not take up this offer. They had such a strong
tie to being "Austrian" partially due in part to their German culture and
language and also due in part to their gratitude to the Austrian Monarchy
for the invitation and opportunity to settle there in the first place (late
1700's & early 1800's). In fact, if one looks at the Canadian 1911 census,
it seems that Ukrainians >from Galicia most often identified themselves as
"Galician", but the German immigrants >from Galicia most often identified
themslves as "Austrian. So to me this is what makes the question even more
intriguing.

Maybe a fourth universal possibility might be that there were conditions
applied to that citizenship that most Galicians regardless of ethnicity
(other than ethnic Poles), did not find attractive. For example, maybe
Austrian citizenship required relocating to the "new" Austrian soil. This
would not be attractive to most residents in Galicia, because it would mean
leaving relatives, friends, land, businesses, and more behind. Also, land
and opportunities in the much smaller, and now economically recovering,
Austria might not be as attractive. This requirement might also make sense
politically as one would be hard-pressed to see how citizens of one country
(new Austrian citizens) would be allowed to remain resident in another
country (the "new" Poland) especially when the former had just recently been
enemies with the later. One can think of all kinds of potential problems,
such as the potential for the new "Austrian" citizens to form some sort of
insurgency. That is but one of many scenarios that one could conjure up.

I do apologize for the long message especially since it is not filled with
known facts, but I am hoping that it might be a bit thought provoking. I
too am interested in discovering the answer to Lancy's second question and
hope others will weigh in. Again, maybe the answer lies in further clauses
of the "Treaty of Peace".

Regards,
Brian J. Lenius
Selkirk, MB, Canada


Street Name Helps... #general

Joel Weintraub <jweintraub@...>
 

On digest yesterday an inquiry was made about an "Attebury" street in
Trenton NJ found on the US Census for 1910. The person was trying to locate
the street.

One way of checking streets is to use our geographical search aids at the
Morse One Step site at http://www.stevemorse.org/ Using the website,
going to the 1910-1940 Census utility, choosing 1910, then New Jersey, and
then choosing Trenton, an alphabetical list of all streets that we compiled
from either the census, NARA descriptions of census districts, or other
sources are shown. We quickly see that there is an Atterbury Avenue in
Trenton. A modern map shows the street still exists. If a modern map did
not show the street, then our utility on Street Name Changes on the One Step
site might help in finding the current name of the street.

At the NY conference this August I'm giving a computer workshop on how these
geographical databases were arrived at. I'm interested in showing people
who have used the geographical utilities the assumptions that they are
working with when they use the databases, and the search assumptions of the
One Step search engine in terms of how that influences results.

Joel Weintraub
Dana Point, CA


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia Re: Citizenship after WWI #galicia

Brian J. Lenius <brian@...>
 

I don't usually (maybe never before) wade in on a debate without very
concrete information, but I find this question rather interesting. The
answer, once discovered, can provide all researchers with a small piece of
history to add to their family histories.

Lancy Spalter:

Fellow researcher M. Goldberger drew my attention to the relevant clauses
of
the Treaty of Peace between the Allied and Associate Powers and Austria.
The
answer is that Galitzianers were automatically granted Polish citizenship
BUT they had a 12-month period to opt for Austrian citizenship. Very few
of
them did.

My new question is: WHY?
= Were they unaware of this option?
= Were they too "busy" trying to survive the post-war rigors to care for
citizenship?
= Were there guidelines of the Jewish Councils as to which nationality to
choose?

If any of the GG mavens has answers, please share them.
Thanks to Lancy Spalter for this thought provoking and relevant question and
to M. Goldberger for the subsequent info re: "Treaty of Peace" clauses. Is
it possible that there might be other clauses in this treaty that might
spell out conditions to opt for Austiran citizenship?

The answer to Lancy's question should be of interest, not only all Jewish
Galicianers but, to those of all other ethnic groups in Galicia as well. It
is also a question where maybe looking at other ethnic groups might provide
some insight for Jewish researchers.

While mulling this over in my mind, it seems that one point would be
obvious. Those who were ethnic Poles would not wish to become Austrian
citizens for one obvious reason - the new country was created effectively
for them. As for all the rest, Ukrainian, Jewish, and German (to name the
major ones) - it seems the same decision (or "none decision" really) was
made. It is always easier to "not" make a decision (i.e. "do nothing") and
so that might have been part of it. While Lancy's third possibility might
have been true (I don't know), it seems that perhaps one of the first 2
possibilities or maybe even a 4th could have been the main reason -
something more universal.

The vast majority of not only Ukrainians, but also those of German
ethnicity, did not become Austrian citizens. This I can personally state
this with fair certainty. It is perhaps most striking that almost all
German "colonists" also did not take up this offer. They had such a strong
tie to being "Austrian" partially due in part to their German culture and
language and also due in part to their gratitude to the Austrian Monarchy
for the invitation and opportunity to settle there in the first place (late
1700's & early 1800's). In fact, if one looks at the Canadian 1911 census,
it seems that Ukrainians >from Galicia most often identified themselves as
"Galician", but the German immigrants >from Galicia most often identified
themslves as "Austrian. So to me this is what makes the question even more
intriguing.

Maybe a fourth universal possibility might be that there were conditions
applied to that citizenship that most Galicians regardless of ethnicity
(other than ethnic Poles), did not find attractive. For example, maybe
Austrian citizenship required relocating to the "new" Austrian soil. This
would not be attractive to most residents in Galicia, because it would mean
leaving relatives, friends, land, businesses, and more behind. Also, land
and opportunities in the much smaller, and now economically recovering,
Austria might not be as attractive. This requirement might also make sense
politically as one would be hard-pressed to see how citizens of one country
(new Austrian citizens) would be allowed to remain resident in another
country (the "new" Poland) especially when the former had just recently been
enemies with the later. One can think of all kinds of potential problems,
such as the potential for the new "Austrian" citizens to form some sort of
insurgency. That is but one of many scenarios that one could conjure up.

I do apologize for the long message especially since it is not filled with
known facts, but I am hoping that it might be a bit thought provoking. I
too am interested in discovering the answer to Lancy's second question and
hope others will weigh in. Again, maybe the answer lies in further clauses
of the "Treaty of Peace".

Regards,
Brian J. Lenius
Selkirk, MB, Canada


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Street Name Helps... #general

Joel Weintraub <jweintraub@...>
 

On digest yesterday an inquiry was made about an "Attebury" street in
Trenton NJ found on the US Census for 1910. The person was trying to locate
the street.

One way of checking streets is to use our geographical search aids at the
Morse One Step site at http://www.stevemorse.org/ Using the website,
going to the 1910-1940 Census utility, choosing 1910, then New Jersey, and
then choosing Trenton, an alphabetical list of all streets that we compiled
from either the census, NARA descriptions of census districts, or other
sources are shown. We quickly see that there is an Atterbury Avenue in
Trenton. A modern map shows the street still exists. If a modern map did
not show the street, then our utility on Street Name Changes on the One Step
site might help in finding the current name of the street.

At the NY conference this August I'm giving a computer workshop on how these
geographical databases were arrived at. I'm interested in showing people
who have used the geographical utilities the assumptions that they are
working with when they use the databases, and the search assumptions of the
One Step search engine in terms of how that influences results.

Joel Weintraub
Dana Point, CA


Re: NYT article on 21st Street Cemetery in NYC #general

Teri Tillman <natzrose@...>
 

In regards to the article in yesterday's New York Times about Congregation
Shearith Israel's 21st Street Cemetery, I would be very interested in
obtaining a paper copy of this article for my files. If a JewishGenner in
NYC who subscribes to the NYT would be willing to send me his / her copy of
this article, please contact me privately.

Thank you.

Teri Tillman
Natchez, Mississippi


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: NYT article on 21st Street Cemetery in NYC #general

Teri Tillman <natzrose@...>
 

In regards to the article in yesterday's New York Times about Congregation
Shearith Israel's 21st Street Cemetery, I would be very interested in
obtaining a paper copy of this article for my files. If a JewishGenner in
NYC who subscribes to the NYT would be willing to send me his / her copy of
this article, please contact me privately.

Thank you.

Teri Tillman
Natchez, Mississippi


Re: Interpreting Census Data: Street in Trenton, NJ 1910 #general

Stan Goodman <SPAM_FOILER@...>
 

On Sat, 10 Jun 2006 04:26:08 UTC, jgrosen@... (Joan Rosen) opined:

Anyone >from the Trenton area ever heard of a street that looks like
Attebury, in cramped handwriting, on the 1910 census? It's Ward 2, ED 53,
SD 4, sheet 10A, line 36, if that helps! The <bury> part looks fairly
clear.

Thanks.
Joan
You can obtain a street map of Trenton for the era (or nearly any other
significant town in the US or elsewhere) >from the Map Department of the
Library of Congress in Washington. There will be a charge; it will be
minimal.

--
Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better). the URL is:
http://www.hashkedim.com

For reasons connected with anti-spam/junk security, the return address is
not valid. To communicate with me, please visit my website (see the URL
above -- no Java required for this purpose) and fill in the email form
there.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Interpreting Census Data: Street in Trenton, NJ 1910 #general

Stan Goodman <SPAM_FOILER@...>
 

On Sat, 10 Jun 2006 04:26:08 UTC, jgrosen@... (Joan Rosen) opined:

Anyone >from the Trenton area ever heard of a street that looks like
Attebury, in cramped handwriting, on the 1910 census? It's Ward 2, ED 53,
SD 4, sheet 10A, line 36, if that helps! The <bury> part looks fairly
clear.

Thanks.
Joan
You can obtain a street map of Trenton for the era (or nearly any other
significant town in the US or elsewhere) >from the Map Department of the
Library of Congress in Washington. There will be a charge; it will be
minimal.

--
Stan Goodman, Qiryat Tiv'on, Israel

Searching:
NEACHOWICZ/NOACHOWICZ, NEJMAN/NAJMAN, SURALSKI: Lomza Gubernia
ISMACH: Lomza Gubernia, Galicia, and Ukraina
HERTANU, ABRAMOVICI, LAUER: Dorohoi District, Romania
GRISARU, VATARU: Iasi, Dorohoi, and Mileanca, Romania

See my interactive family tree (requires Java 1.1.6 or better). the URL is:
http://www.hashkedim.com

For reasons connected with anti-spam/junk security, the return address is
not valid. To communicate with me, please visit my website (see the URL
above -- no Java required for this purpose) and fill in the email form
there.


LAZARUS #germany

Christopher Massur <cmassur@...>
 

Dear Richard,
as you at this point are certain that your H. LAZARUS left Liverpool, and
from your mentioning that Jewish merchants in Philadelphia helped him on
arrival it might be another option, before looking into German records to
look into English records. You probably already have searched the
online-records of the PRO (public record office) and might have noticed that
the name LAZARUS is mentioned countless times - with new varities like
Heiman and Hyams. But perhaps your ancestor had lived for some time in
Liverpool before leaving for the US. Therefore, you might want to check the
available records f.i. in the Merseyside Jewish Archives at Liverpool Record
Office, where he might have been a member?
He was said to have been 40 years old on arrival. This could mean that he
had a wife, children (already dead?) before leaving >from Europe? By checking
the archives in Hessen (Nieder-Olm?), online at http://www.hadis.hessen.de
again plenty of LAZARUS are mentioned and for Rheinland Pfalz it might be
the same. I could not find online the mention of a record in Darmstadt?
As his wife seems to have been a desc. of a huguenote family, he married
outside his faith? But his relying on help >from Jewish merchants there is a
chance that he might be mentioned in a US Jewish congregation on his
arrival? Not really help, but food for some thought.
You mention that his first name was spelled wrong, well in the 1810s I would
not talk about spelling a name wrong. Spelling variaties were normal at the time.

Christopher Massur, Curaçao

Subject: LAZARUS in Appenheim and Nieder-Olm
From: "Richard Welch" <rwelch@...>
There is a Hayum LAZARUS listed in a Nieder-Olm document, now in the State
Archives in Darmstadt, with the year 1779 following his name. Possibly a
birth record?


German SIG #Germany LAZARUS #germany

Christopher Massur <cmassur@...>
 

Dear Richard,
as you at this point are certain that your H. LAZARUS left Liverpool, and
from your mentioning that Jewish merchants in Philadelphia helped him on
arrival it might be another option, before looking into German records to
look into English records. You probably already have searched the
online-records of the PRO (public record office) and might have noticed that
the name LAZARUS is mentioned countless times - with new varities like
Heiman and Hyams. But perhaps your ancestor had lived for some time in
Liverpool before leaving for the US. Therefore, you might want to check the
available records f.i. in the Merseyside Jewish Archives at Liverpool Record
Office, where he might have been a member?
He was said to have been 40 years old on arrival. This could mean that he
had a wife, children (already dead?) before leaving >from Europe? By checking
the archives in Hessen (Nieder-Olm?), online at http://www.hadis.hessen.de
again plenty of LAZARUS are mentioned and for Rheinland Pfalz it might be
the same. I could not find online the mention of a record in Darmstadt?
As his wife seems to have been a desc. of a huguenote family, he married
outside his faith? But his relying on help >from Jewish merchants there is a
chance that he might be mentioned in a US Jewish congregation on his
arrival? Not really help, but food for some thought.
You mention that his first name was spelled wrong, well in the 1810s I would
not talk about spelling a name wrong. Spelling variaties were normal at the time.

Christopher Massur, Curaçao

Subject: LAZARUS in Appenheim and Nieder-Olm
From: "Richard Welch" <rwelch@...>
There is a Hayum LAZARUS listed in a Nieder-Olm document, now in the State
Archives in Darmstadt, with the year 1779 following his name. Possibly a
birth record?


No Heritage? #germany

Diane Cudo <tikvah7@...>
 

I am researching my maternal grandmother, Margareta REPENNING. Even on the
death certificate (1948, MN) there is no date of birth, no place of birth,
no parental names. There is no documentation of entry into the U.S.

She was German, as the only language spoken in my mother's childhood
Minnesota home was German. My grandfather came >from Prussia.

The only information I have is a birthday of 1869 and I don't know where
that came from.

I find Repennings or Redepennings in areas >from Gollnow to Kiel and
elsewhere, with names >from Abraham to Jacob and on to Christian names.

Has anyone else run into this type of thing? Shalom,

Diane Hartman Cudo tikvah7@... Ariel, Israel


German SIG #Germany No Heritage? #germany

Diane Cudo <tikvah7@...>
 

I am researching my maternal grandmother, Margareta REPENNING. Even on the
death certificate (1948, MN) there is no date of birth, no place of birth,
no parental names. There is no documentation of entry into the U.S.

She was German, as the only language spoken in my mother's childhood
Minnesota home was German. My grandfather came >from Prussia.

The only information I have is a birthday of 1869 and I don't know where
that came from.

I find Repennings or Redepennings in areas >from Gollnow to Kiel and
elsewhere, with names >from Abraham to Jacob and on to Christian names.

Has anyone else run into this type of thing? Shalom,

Diane Hartman Cudo tikvah7@... Ariel, Israel


Sources and variations of surname: ELIN #belarus

Harold Stein <hal2202@...>
 

Does anyone have information about the surname, ELIN?
My late uncle gave ALLEN as my maternal grandmother's
maiden name on her death certificate. Upon seeing this
years later, I dismissed this out of hand, but in the
course of genealogical research I was informed that it
may have been ELIN or some variant. Before immigrating
to the US, the family lived in the shtetl of Kapyl
(Kapulie), near Slutsk. I have found nothing on ELIN.
Any information on families in that area with similar
sounding names would be appreciated.
Hal Stein
Sacramento, CA

Researching: Avram SHAPIRO and Rivka ELIN, Slutsk
area; Jacob and Libby SMOSCOWITZ, Riga and vicinity
(Griva).


Belarus SIG #Belarus Sources and variations of surname: ELIN #belarus

Harold Stein <hal2202@...>
 

Does anyone have information about the surname, ELIN?
My late uncle gave ALLEN as my maternal grandmother's
maiden name on her death certificate. Upon seeing this
years later, I dismissed this out of hand, but in the
course of genealogical research I was informed that it
may have been ELIN or some variant. Before immigrating
to the US, the family lived in the shtetl of Kapyl
(Kapulie), near Slutsk. I have found nothing on ELIN.
Any information on families in that area with similar
sounding names would be appreciated.
Hal Stein
Sacramento, CA

Researching: Avram SHAPIRO and Rivka ELIN, Slutsk
area; Jacob and Libby SMOSCOWITZ, Riga and vicinity
(Griva).


Albert Lirtzmann's location #ukraine

Alexander Kolker <kolker-a@...>
 

Hello !

If anyone know e-mail or phone number of Mr. Albert Lirtzmann that wrote
book "Bogopol" ?


Best Regards
Kolker Alexander
kolker-a@...


MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please respond privately.


Ukraine SIG #Ukraine Albert Lirtzmann's location #ukraine

Alexander Kolker <kolker-a@...>
 

Hello !

If anyone know e-mail or phone number of Mr. Albert Lirtzmann that wrote
book "Bogopol" ?


Best Regards
Kolker Alexander
kolker-a@...


MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please respond privately.