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Re: About Jewishness. Thank you everybody. #general

Steven Schwartz <SSchwartz@...>
 

Alejandro, each searcher has his own reasons. Those reasons may include
to find a certain live family member, to broaden the database of known live
family members, to identify as lengthy a line of descent as possible, to
learn more information about remote ancestors, to discover noteworthy
ancestors, to discover medical/genetic abnormalities in the family line,
etc.
I think most people in my discussion groups are simply motivated to seek
out the whole truth of their full lineage, whatever that may be and
wherever that may lead. In my opinion, few if any of us would want to
limit our searches to our maternal lines on the theory that under Jewish
law the mother determines whether or not the child is Jewish. (Note:
Paternal descent is not meaningless under Jewish law. Whether a Jewish
child will be a Kohane, Levy or Yisroel will depend on his patrilineal
descent)

Some persons raised as non-Jews seem to me to be very strongly motivated
to find a Jewish connection. I expect that each of those persons too has
his own reasons. Some of those with genuine Jewish connections seem to
want to establish and develop their own Jewish identity for deeply felt
religious reasons. That may make better sense when we keep in mind that
Judaism is not simply a personal religion, but it is also a covenant
between God and the descendants of Jacob. Although converts into the
family of the Jewish people may be accepted, sometimes reluctantly, the
sense of "family" and "peoplehood" runs deep among us, and it has probably
been reinforced by the persecutions we have experienced. I suppose it
sometimes may take more than a generation or two to loosen the ties that
seem to bind each Jew to the Jewish people as a whole. Best regards.

Steve Schwartz,
Dover, Delaware USA
SSchwartz@EZOL.com

Also searching:

HAUPTMAN,of Drohobych in Eastern Galicia, now Western Ukraine

KIMELHEIM,of Drohobych (Galicia / now Ukraine) and Budapest, Hungary.

NARODETSKY,of Rovno in Volhynia District, Ukraine (and Kiev).

HENDELBERG or HANDELBERG,of Annopol (near Rovno) in Volhynia District,
Ukraine.

FISCHER,of Budapest (or Grosbedan or Yanashee), Hungary.

SCHWARTZ,of Vienna, Austria; Nagy Totfalu, Hungary; Mateszalka, Hungary.
Usable info or maybe dead end? #general

MarlaJAP@...
 

Genners:

I have now received the SS-5 applications for mgf and pgf. Each
applied just as the Act was put in place, it would appear. My mgf's
application didn't really net me much new information, other than my
mggm's maiden name. I was already fairly certain that he'd been born
in Bucuresti in 1898, so no big surprises there.

The application of my pgf is the one I had high hopes for, as I have
absolutely no idea where he is from, other than that marvelously general
term, "Russia". Unfortunately, that's all that was written on his SS-5,
as well. I did find, however, that the birth date on the SS-5 disagrees
with the one on the SSDI at ancestry.com, so I'll probably notify them of
that error. I also discovered his middle name, or at least the English
approximation of it, and his parents' names. Here are my questions, as a
very raw genealogy beginner:

1. "Family legend" always said that Papa's "real" last name was
Citrin, and that there was a mix-up in the immigration process that
made him a Goldman. However, on his SS-5, the father's name is Sam
Goldman, mother is Bertha Citrin. Papa was born in 1887 in Russia or
the Provinces. Would his actual surname have been a matronymic, hence
the Citrin?

2. He shows his name on the app as Jacob Bernard Goldman. Solid Yiddish
possibilities for Jacob come to mind - Jankel/Jankiel, Jakov, Jakob, and
versions with a "y" instead of "j", etc. Bernard has me stumped, so your
guesses will be appreciated. My knowledge of Yiddish is thin at best, it
was *never* spoken in my house when I was a child. My father always said
he'd heard enough of it at home as a child! :)

3. Other than giving me a corrected birth date and where he worked in
1936, the SS-5 did not net me any direction to point my search in. I'm
fairly certain his immigration happened somewhere between 1904 and 1907,
but I'm discouraged about finding his naturalization certificate, record
of his immigration or a birth record. Thoughts?

And, of course, if anyone has people with these names in their tree,
information will be much appreciated. My Jacob settled in Mass. after a
short stay in either Philly or Baltimore, depending on whose story you are
taking as fact.

Since I'm asking an awful lot of questions, please reply privately, so
there is less 'list-clogging"! Thanks so much for "listening" and for
any clues anyone can provide.

Regards,

Marla Goldman
Mesa AZ

Researching:
GOLDMAN, CITRIN, KOPYT - Russian Provinces (exact area unknown!)/Boston MA
REINER - Germany/St Petersburg/Rosenhayn NJ/Boston MA
BLEICHER, BLOCKER - Bucuresti/NYC NY
Van Nuys Court #general

LLapinhain@...
 

Van Nuys Court is a branch of the Los Angeles Superior Court.

Louise Lapin-Haines
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: About Jewishness. Thank you everybody. #general

Steven Schwartz <SSchwartz@...>
 

Alejandro, each searcher has his own reasons. Those reasons may include
to find a certain live family member, to broaden the database of known live
family members, to identify as lengthy a line of descent as possible, to
learn more information about remote ancestors, to discover noteworthy
ancestors, to discover medical/genetic abnormalities in the family line,
etc.
I think most people in my discussion groups are simply motivated to seek
out the whole truth of their full lineage, whatever that may be and
wherever that may lead. In my opinion, few if any of us would want to
limit our searches to our maternal lines on the theory that under Jewish
law the mother determines whether or not the child is Jewish. (Note:
Paternal descent is not meaningless under Jewish law. Whether a Jewish
child will be a Kohane, Levy or Yisroel will depend on his patrilineal
descent)

Some persons raised as non-Jews seem to me to be very strongly motivated
to find a Jewish connection. I expect that each of those persons too has
his own reasons. Some of those with genuine Jewish connections seem to
want to establish and develop their own Jewish identity for deeply felt
religious reasons. That may make better sense when we keep in mind that
Judaism is not simply a personal religion, but it is also a covenant
between God and the descendants of Jacob. Although converts into the
family of the Jewish people may be accepted, sometimes reluctantly, the
sense of "family" and "peoplehood" runs deep among us, and it has probably
been reinforced by the persecutions we have experienced. I suppose it
sometimes may take more than a generation or two to loosen the ties that
seem to bind each Jew to the Jewish people as a whole. Best regards.

Steve Schwartz,
Dover, Delaware USA
SSchwartz@EZOL.com

Also searching:

HAUPTMAN,of Drohobych in Eastern Galicia, now Western Ukraine

KIMELHEIM,of Drohobych (Galicia / now Ukraine) and Budapest, Hungary.

NARODETSKY,of Rovno in Volhynia District, Ukraine (and Kiev).

HENDELBERG or HANDELBERG,of Annopol (near Rovno) in Volhynia District,
Ukraine.

FISCHER,of Budapest (or Grosbedan or Yanashee), Hungary.

SCHWARTZ,of Vienna, Austria; Nagy Totfalu, Hungary; Mateszalka, Hungary.
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Usable info or maybe dead end? #general

MarlaJAP@...
 

Genners:

I have now received the SS-5 applications for mgf and pgf. Each
applied just as the Act was put in place, it would appear. My mgf's
application didn't really net me much new information, other than my
mggm's maiden name. I was already fairly certain that he'd been born
in Bucuresti in 1898, so no big surprises there.

The application of my pgf is the one I had high hopes for, as I have
absolutely no idea where he is from, other than that marvelously general
term, "Russia". Unfortunately, that's all that was written on his SS-5,
as well. I did find, however, that the birth date on the SS-5 disagrees
with the one on the SSDI at ancestry.com, so I'll probably notify them of
that error. I also discovered his middle name, or at least the English
approximation of it, and his parents' names. Here are my questions, as a
very raw genealogy beginner:

1. "Family legend" always said that Papa's "real" last name was
Citrin, and that there was a mix-up in the immigration process that
made him a Goldman. However, on his SS-5, the father's name is Sam
Goldman, mother is Bertha Citrin. Papa was born in 1887 in Russia or
the Provinces. Would his actual surname have been a matronymic, hence
the Citrin?

2. He shows his name on the app as Jacob Bernard Goldman. Solid Yiddish
possibilities for Jacob come to mind - Jankel/Jankiel, Jakov, Jakob, and
versions with a "y" instead of "j", etc. Bernard has me stumped, so your
guesses will be appreciated. My knowledge of Yiddish is thin at best, it
was *never* spoken in my house when I was a child. My father always said
he'd heard enough of it at home as a child! :)

3. Other than giving me a corrected birth date and where he worked in
1936, the SS-5 did not net me any direction to point my search in. I'm
fairly certain his immigration happened somewhere between 1904 and 1907,
but I'm discouraged about finding his naturalization certificate, record
of his immigration or a birth record. Thoughts?

And, of course, if anyone has people with these names in their tree,
information will be much appreciated. My Jacob settled in Mass. after a
short stay in either Philly or Baltimore, depending on whose story you are
taking as fact.

Since I'm asking an awful lot of questions, please reply privately, so
there is less 'list-clogging"! Thanks so much for "listening" and for
any clues anyone can provide.

Regards,

Marla Goldman
Mesa AZ

Researching:
GOLDMAN, CITRIN, KOPYT - Russian Provinces (exact area unknown!)/Boston MA
REINER - Germany/St Petersburg/Rosenhayn NJ/Boston MA
BLEICHER, BLOCKER - Bucuresti/NYC NY
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Van Nuys Court #general

LLapinhain@...
 

Van Nuys Court is a branch of the Los Angeles Superior Court.

Louise Lapin-Haines
shipping lists #general

Dara Pearlman <pearlman99@...>
 

Re: the recent posting about shipping lists on
rootsweb.com --

"RootsWeb and ISTG http://istg.rootsweb.com/ have
teamed up to increase the pace at which ISTG can transcribe
and make available online in a searchable database information
from passenger lists of ships sailing to and >from ports
worldwide since about 1600, although the most data are from
ships that sailed in the past 200 years."

I checked out this site, and I don't find a search
function for names on the ships. Am I missing
something? Is the only way to look for names to
review the lists ship by ship?

Dara Pearlman
Cupertino, CA

MODERATOR NOTE: ISTG does have a search function for each volume of its
shipping lists. There is also a "contact us" feature with which they
can be emailed for further help.
Re: N.Y. Naturalization Petition Index #galicia

Don Solomon
 

It appears to me that the index is only for the State courts in New York
County (Manhattan) and does not include the Federal courts (which did
many more naturalizations) or courts in the other boroughs of New York
City. Can anyone confirm this?

Diane Jacobs wrote:

I also put in the surname Steinberg and got nothing, so I tried
Stein (not my family) and got a zero again. Is something wrong
with the "S" database.

Diane jacobs
New York

I have my doubts about the completeness of the Ancestry.com 1907-1924
Naturalization Petition index. I put in the name "Schwartz" (my
grandfather) and got 0 matches. That seems unlikely in New York City
during those years.
Has anyone found anything useful on the index?

Judy Floam
Baltimore, MD
--
Don Solomon, Brookline, MA, USA <dsolomon@post.harvard.edu>
Searching: SOLOMON, SLOIM, CAHANE, SEGAL, JOSEPH (Iasi, Romania)
Searching: NIMOY, NEMOY, DRUTIN, DROOTIN, KATZ (Izyaslav, Ukraine)
Re: Searching: COHN (Algeria/France) #general

Don Solomon
 

You should consult the InfoSpace directory for France -- I think
you'll be pleased.
It is located at:

http://www.infospace.com/uk/intldb/pplfindint.htm?QO=FR

Readers desiring other international directories may consult:

http://www.infospace.com/uk/index_int.htm

Ronald Wallace wrote:

I am looking for a family Cohn, who originally lived in Oran Algeria.
They were known to be there still in 1964.
In 1968 they were known to have moved to France and lived North of Paris.
Names were Ruth & Kurt with a daughter Evelyn. Ruth would be 89 if she
were still alive and Evelyn 65 today.
Anyone who might be able to shed any light on the whereabouts of this
family please contact me directly.

--
Don Solomon, Brookline, MA, USA <dsolomon@post.harvard.edu>
Searching: SOLOMON, SLOIM, CAHANE, SEGAL, JOSEPH (Iasi, Romania)
Searching: NIMOY, NEMOY, DRUTIN, DROOTIN, KATZ (Izyaslav, Ukraine)
I am helping my father, Sam SILVERBERG, locate Murray or Joan GOLUB. #general

Marlene Staggs <mstaggs@...>
 

I am helping my father, Sam Silverberg, locate Murray or Joan Golub. He
and Murray were fraternity brothers at City College New York and both
graduated in civil engineering in 1952. Joan's maiden name was Binns.

My father heard that Murray had had a stroke. Attempts to locate him
have failed. They may have been living in Florida, as Murray was one of
the civil engineers responsible for the development of Disneyworld.

If you have information, or are related to Murray or Joan Golub please
contact me.

Thanks you very much,

Marlene Staggs
mstaggs@telcomplus.net
Bellingham, WA
TUCHINSKY #general

Gary Platt <grplatt@...>
 

I recently visited Cherkassy, Ukraine. While there I was approached by
the daughter and granddaughter of Solomon TUCHINSKY, born 1903. They
advised that their father maintained correspondence with relatives in
Philadelphia through 1945. Thereafter, contact broke off, I assume in
no small part due to the risk that correspondence with the western
relatives posed during the communist era. They asked me to attempt, via
the internet, to find those relatives

Cherkassy is a small city 2+ hours SE of Kiev. Solomon's parents were
Joseph & Diana TUCHINSKY. His siblings were:Fania, Celia, Pinkus,
Boruch and Moishe.

If you think you might be related to this family, please reply.

Gary Platt
Morristown, NJ
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen shipping lists #general

Dara Pearlman <pearlman99@...>
 

Re: the recent posting about shipping lists on
rootsweb.com --

"RootsWeb and ISTG http://istg.rootsweb.com/ have
teamed up to increase the pace at which ISTG can transcribe
and make available online in a searchable database information
from passenger lists of ships sailing to and >from ports
worldwide since about 1600, although the most data are from
ships that sailed in the past 200 years."

I checked out this site, and I don't find a search
function for names on the ships. Am I missing
something? Is the only way to look for names to
review the lists ship by ship?

Dara Pearlman
Cupertino, CA

MODERATOR NOTE: ISTG does have a search function for each volume of its
shipping lists. There is also a "contact us" feature with which they
can be emailed for further help.
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: N.Y. Naturalization Petition Index #general

Don Solomon
 

It appears to me that the index is only for the State courts in New York
County (Manhattan) and does not include the Federal courts (which did
many more naturalizations) or courts in the other boroughs of New York
City. Can anyone confirm this?

Diane Jacobs wrote:

I also put in the surname Steinberg and got nothing, so I tried
Stein (not my family) and got a zero again. Is something wrong
with the "S" database.

Diane jacobs
New York

I have my doubts about the completeness of the Ancestry.com 1907-1924
Naturalization Petition index. I put in the name "Schwartz" (my
grandfather) and got 0 matches. That seems unlikely in New York City
during those years.
Has anyone found anything useful on the index?

Judy Floam
Baltimore, MD
--
Don Solomon, Brookline, MA, USA <dsolomon@post.harvard.edu>
Searching: SOLOMON, SLOIM, CAHANE, SEGAL, JOSEPH (Iasi, Romania)
Searching: NIMOY, NEMOY, DRUTIN, DROOTIN, KATZ (Izyaslav, Ukraine)
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Searching: COHN (Algeria/France) #general

Don Solomon
 

You should consult the InfoSpace directory for France -- I think
you'll be pleased.
It is located at:

http://www.infospace.com/uk/intldb/pplfindint.htm?QO=FR

Readers desiring other international directories may consult:

http://www.infospace.com/uk/index_int.htm

Ronald Wallace wrote:

I am looking for a family Cohn, who originally lived in Oran Algeria.
They were known to be there still in 1964.
In 1968 they were known to have moved to France and lived North of Paris.
Names were Ruth & Kurt with a daughter Evelyn. Ruth would be 89 if she
were still alive and Evelyn 65 today.
Anyone who might be able to shed any light on the whereabouts of this
family please contact me directly.

--
Don Solomon, Brookline, MA, USA <dsolomon@post.harvard.edu>
Searching: SOLOMON, SLOIM, CAHANE, SEGAL, JOSEPH (Iasi, Romania)
Searching: NIMOY, NEMOY, DRUTIN, DROOTIN, KATZ (Izyaslav, Ukraine)
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen I am helping my father, Sam SILVERBERG, locate Murray or Joan GOLUB. #general

Marlene Staggs <mstaggs@...>
 

I am helping my father, Sam Silverberg, locate Murray or Joan Golub. He
and Murray were fraternity brothers at City College New York and both
graduated in civil engineering in 1952. Joan's maiden name was Binns.

My father heard that Murray had had a stroke. Attempts to locate him
have failed. They may have been living in Florida, as Murray was one of
the civil engineers responsible for the development of Disneyworld.

If you have information, or are related to Murray or Joan Golub please
contact me.

Thanks you very much,

Marlene Staggs
mstaggs@telcomplus.net
Bellingham, WA
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen TUCHINSKY #general

Gary Platt <grplatt@...>
 

I recently visited Cherkassy, Ukraine. While there I was approached by
the daughter and granddaughter of Solomon TUCHINSKY, born 1903. They
advised that their father maintained correspondence with relatives in
Philadelphia through 1945. Thereafter, contact broke off, I assume in
no small part due to the risk that correspondence with the western
relatives posed during the communist era. They asked me to attempt, via
the internet, to find those relatives

Cherkassy is a small city 2+ hours SE of Kiev. Solomon's parents were
Joseph & Diana TUCHINSKY. His siblings were:Fania, Celia, Pinkus,
Boruch and Moishe.

If you think you might be related to this family, please reply.

Gary Platt
Morristown, NJ
Holocaust Survivors site cite #general

Martha Lev-Zion <martha@...>
 

With permission >from The Scout Report, Copyright Internet Scout Project
1994-2000.
http://scout.cs.wisc.edu/

I thought the following might be of interest of some of us:

. Holocaust Survivors [RealPlayer]
http://www.holocaustsurvivors.org/

Originally a photography project, Holocaust Survivors has developed
into a touring exhibit and a Website. Directed by John Menszer, this
moving and well-constructed site is an outstanding adjunct to any
class or course that discusses the Holocaust. University courses,
especially larger surveys, often deal with the Shoah on a broad
institutional level in an attempt to impart the sheer scale of the
mass-murders. What is lost is the individual and personal experiences
of loss and survival in these years. This site, with its photo
gallery, survivor stories, and especially the audio gallery, offers
students or any visitor invaluable personal accounts of the
Holocaust. To help users place these in the larger context, the site
provides an historical introduction, an encyclopedia, a collection of
primary documents and scholarly articles, a bibliography, and related
links. The site also hosts a discussion board. [MD]


Martha Levinson Lev-Zion in Israel
LPC interpretation #general

jo schwartz <joschwartz@...>
 

Sherri,

It wasn't always so simple. An ancestor of mine came to Philadelphia with
his 24 year old brother in 1913. He had given his age as 17 because his
relatives already here (who had paid for his ticket) had been told ,
possibly by the ticket seller, that anyone under 17 and not coming with
parents would not be admitted. He was really 14.

Because he was also very short, the discrepancy with his listed age stood
out and he was detained and designated LPC due to "arrested sexual
development", and "likely to adopt certain deviant practices". My ggf, to
whom these boys were coming, and who had paid for his ticket, hired a
lawyer, and various witnesses vouched for his true age. My ggf not only
was willing to post any kind of bond, since he was a well established
business man by then, and testified he would adopt him if necessary (he
had already taken in the boy's sister). It didn't matter. He was
sent back to the Ukraine and (family lore has it) he died in the Holocaust.

I was fortunate to get the entire hearing testimony. It was really an eye
opener. My contact told me that it was unusual for INS to go to this
extreme, even tho the issue of age was strictly speaking correct.
Normally, when so much family was already here and willing to take
responsibility for the underage child, INS would make an exception and
admit them.

jo


Subject: Re: Aliens Held for Special Inquiry - what does LPC 210 stand for?
From: sherribob@aol.com (Sherribob)
Date: 09 Jun 2000 22:23:38 GMT
X-Message-Number: 26

Marlene,

LPC means "likely to be public charge". Probably 90% of our ancestors
were held over as LPC. All it mean was that if you had less than $50
dollars with you, then you had to wait for a relative to come and vouch
for you. The relative would state they would feed and house the immigrant
and therefore prevent the immigrant >from being a public charge.

My late uncle always told stories of a constant flow of landsmen from
their shtetl sleeping in their house, fresh off the boat.

Also, you're very lucky, those numbers written over his name are his
naturilization info. It will be a simple matter for you to obtain those
papers >from INS.

good luck in your search,

Sherri Bobish
Passenger Arr help/info #general

Foodphile@...
 

I have the manifest for the S.S. Russia, which shows my relative, Ette
GRINBERG (Greenberg) arriving at Ellis Island, Sept. 11, 1910. She was
travelling with two children, Moruch and Sore. I believe that Moruch
Grinberg was my grandfather, Morris KELLNER. This might sound strange,
but I believe he was travelling with his aunt, Ette. In the box above
where "child" is written, are the these numbers:
2-985997-7/7/42. Is there anyone on the list that might have experience
with this kind of situation and if so, what do these numbers refer to? I
would be happy to fax the manifest to anyone who might be able to shed
some light on this.

By the way, these are the other names that appear. I will also be happy
to fax to anyone interested in these names:
(The handwriting is quite impossible!! But I'll do my best...)
Ritalis
Maziefokaja (?)
Kajslanskaja (?)
Langsbord
Kranietz
Mgorder
Bender or Mender
Smonkamitz (?)
Feinstein
Dobrawensky (?)
Sutonowsky

Meryl Persky
Calabasas, Ca.
DUNITZ (DONETZ), Kovel, Ukr. SALZMAN, Ukr. KETCHMAN, Ukr. HIRSCH, Grybow,
Pol. LEDER, Ryglice, Pol, TEPPER, Galicia KELLNER, Ostropol, Russia COHEN,
Ostropol, Russia SCHIER (SCHUER), Grybow, Pol. SPERBER, Galicia.
KARTAGENER, Tuchow, Pol. GRUNBERG (GREENBERG) Kishinev.
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Holocaust Survivors site cite #general

Martha Lev-Zion <martha@...>
 

With permission >from The Scout Report, Copyright Internet Scout Project
1994-2000.
http://scout.cs.wisc.edu/

I thought the following might be of interest of some of us:

. Holocaust Survivors [RealPlayer]
http://www.holocaustsurvivors.org/

Originally a photography project, Holocaust Survivors has developed
into a touring exhibit and a Website. Directed by John Menszer, this
moving and well-constructed site is an outstanding adjunct to any
class or course that discusses the Holocaust. University courses,
especially larger surveys, often deal with the Shoah on a broad
institutional level in an attempt to impart the sheer scale of the
mass-murders. What is lost is the individual and personal experiences
of loss and survival in these years. This site, with its photo
gallery, survivor stories, and especially the audio gallery, offers
students or any visitor invaluable personal accounts of the
Holocaust. To help users place these in the larger context, the site
provides an historical introduction, an encyclopedia, a collection of
primary documents and scholarly articles, a bibliography, and related
links. The site also hosts a discussion board. [MD]


Martha Levinson Lev-Zion in Israel
582221 - 582240 of 668699