Date   

Was someone born in Galicia considered a Pole or Austrian #galicia

Wwhwhf@...
 

The question as stated -- Was someone born in Galicia considered a Pole or an
Austrian -- has no clear answer because it is stated too simplistically and
imprecisely. Any single answer to the question as stated is necessarily
naive. One must first know:

1) What is meant by "considered"? "considered" in what sense?
Considered for purposes of issuance of passport? Considered as far a
citizenship goes? Considered in terms of ethnic group membership?

2) Who is doing the considering? One's friends and family? the government
then in power in Galicia? countries other than Austria-Hungary or Poland, for
purposes of immigration or quotas or census?

3) For what period in history is one doing the considering? During the
Austro-Hungarian Empire? During period when all of Galicia was governed by
the republic of Poland? Today? If for defining citizenship or application for
passport or safeconduct pass, the historical period is critical.

4) Is the period when the person born really significant for purposes of
this consideration? For example, someone born in Galicia under Austria
Hungary, who emigrated before World War I was an Austro=Hungarian citizen. If
that same person remained there until the period between the World Wars and
then wished to emigrate, that same person was then a Polish citizen and
eligible for a Polish passport.

5)Where in Galicia? If one is discussing present-day Galicia, the answer
to a citizenship question could be either Polish or Ukrainian citizen, but
never Austrian.

6) Persons who emigrated >from Galicia before World War I reported to US
immigration authorities that they were >from Austria or Austria Hungary, but
when among friends, especially between the World Wars, when asked where they
came from, would say Poland -- both because the area was then under Polish
governance and because it had been the Polish part of Austria Hungary.

If the question is re-phrased, it would be easier to reply.

William Fern


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia Was someone born in Galicia considered a Pole or Austrian #galicia

Wwhwhf@...
 

The question as stated -- Was someone born in Galicia considered a Pole or an
Austrian -- has no clear answer because it is stated too simplistically and
imprecisely. Any single answer to the question as stated is necessarily
naive. One must first know:

1) What is meant by "considered"? "considered" in what sense?
Considered for purposes of issuance of passport? Considered as far a
citizenship goes? Considered in terms of ethnic group membership?

2) Who is doing the considering? One's friends and family? the government
then in power in Galicia? countries other than Austria-Hungary or Poland, for
purposes of immigration or quotas or census?

3) For what period in history is one doing the considering? During the
Austro-Hungarian Empire? During period when all of Galicia was governed by
the republic of Poland? Today? If for defining citizenship or application for
passport or safeconduct pass, the historical period is critical.

4) Is the period when the person born really significant for purposes of
this consideration? For example, someone born in Galicia under Austria
Hungary, who emigrated before World War I was an Austro=Hungarian citizen. If
that same person remained there until the period between the World Wars and
then wished to emigrate, that same person was then a Polish citizen and
eligible for a Polish passport.

5)Where in Galicia? If one is discussing present-day Galicia, the answer
to a citizenship question could be either Polish or Ukrainian citizen, but
never Austrian.

6) Persons who emigrated >from Galicia before World War I reported to US
immigration authorities that they were >from Austria or Austria Hungary, but
when among friends, especially between the World Wars, when asked where they
came from, would say Poland -- both because the area was then under Polish
governance and because it had been the Polish part of Austria Hungary.

If the question is re-phrased, it would be easier to reply.

William Fern


Re: Nationality #galicia

Peter Zavon <PZavon@...>
 

=

On Tue, 15 Aug 2000 Harvey <panthercat644@...> asked:

Was someone born in Galicia considered a Pole or an
Austrian ?
Anyone born in Galicia when it existed as a province of the
Austro-Hungarian Empire or, earlier, of the Hapsburg Empire, was a Subjec=
t
of the Emperor of Austria for official purposes. Such a person would hav=
e
been recorded as "Austrian" for most official purposes, such as obtaining=

US citizenship.

However, The Austro-Hungarian Empire was a multi-ethnic empire. It
subjects generally maintained their ethnic identities. So an Austrian
subject might describe himself as a Pole or a Czech, etc. Jews were
generally seen as an ethnic group, so many would dscribe themselves as Je=
ws
rather than Poles, for example. The more secularized might have prefered=

to call themselves Poles rather than Jews,or Austrians rather than Jews,
but official procedures might have prevented that.

People born in what had been Galicia but was then part of inter-war Polan=
d
(>from 1920 until WWII) would have been citizens of Poland and would have
been recorded as such. They would be Poles for purposed of obtaining US
citizenship. =


Peter Zavon, Editor
Gesher Galicia Family Finder
Penfield, NY

PZAVON@...


Re: Nationality #galicia

Peter Jassem <jassep@...>
 

Harvey [SMTP:panthercat644@...] wrote:
Was someone born in Galicia considered a Pole or an Austrian ?

The term Galicia was the name Austrians applied to the traditional part of
Poland inhabited mostly by Poles, Ukrainians (eastern part) and Jews, that
they annexed in the process of partitions of Poland. Therefore people who
lived there between 1772 and 1918 (only) under Austrian administration were
in political sense Austrian subjects and documents >from that period such as
civil and immigration records, ship manifests etc. will reflect this. In
national, ethnic or linguistic sense however they were not Austrians and
referred to themselves as Poles, Ukrainians or Jews.

Peter Jassem
jassep@...
Toronto, Ontario


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia Re: Nationality #galicia

Peter Zavon <PZavon@...>
 

=

On Tue, 15 Aug 2000 Harvey <panthercat644@...> asked:

Was someone born in Galicia considered a Pole or an
Austrian ?
Anyone born in Galicia when it existed as a province of the
Austro-Hungarian Empire or, earlier, of the Hapsburg Empire, was a Subjec=
t
of the Emperor of Austria for official purposes. Such a person would hav=
e
been recorded as "Austrian" for most official purposes, such as obtaining=

US citizenship.

However, The Austro-Hungarian Empire was a multi-ethnic empire. It
subjects generally maintained their ethnic identities. So an Austrian
subject might describe himself as a Pole or a Czech, etc. Jews were
generally seen as an ethnic group, so many would dscribe themselves as Je=
ws
rather than Poles, for example. The more secularized might have prefered=

to call themselves Poles rather than Jews,or Austrians rather than Jews,
but official procedures might have prevented that.

People born in what had been Galicia but was then part of inter-war Polan=
d
(>from 1920 until WWII) would have been citizens of Poland and would have
been recorded as such. They would be Poles for purposed of obtaining US
citizenship. =


Peter Zavon, Editor
Gesher Galicia Family Finder
Penfield, NY

PZAVON@...


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia RE: Nationality #galicia

Peter Jassem <jassep@...>
 

Harvey [SMTP:panthercat644@...] wrote:
Was someone born in Galicia considered a Pole or an Austrian ?

The term Galicia was the name Austrians applied to the traditional part of
Poland inhabited mostly by Poles, Ukrainians (eastern part) and Jews, that
they annexed in the process of partitions of Poland. Therefore people who
lived there between 1772 and 1918 (only) under Austrian administration were
in political sense Austrian subjects and documents >from that period such as
civil and immigration records, ship manifests etc. will reflect this. In
national, ethnic or linguistic sense however they were not Austrians and
referred to themselves as Poles, Ukrainians or Jews.

Peter Jassem
jassep@...
Toronto, Ontario


An Appeal to all survivors and descendants from Rozan, Poland #general

Ada Holtzman <ada01@...>
 

On behalf of The Association of the Former Jewish Residents of Rozan Nad
Narev, Poland in Israel I appeal to all survivors and descendants >from
that town to contact the chairman in order to
participate in two special memorial projects.

One project is building a memorial monument in the center of town, on
the plot where once stood the grand synagogue of town before the
destruction, and restoration of the Rozan's old Jewish Cemetery.

The second project is posting the Yizkor book of Rozan, English part
and translations >from the Yiddish and Hebrew parts in JewishGen Yizkor
Books database.

Thank you, shalom,

Ada Holtzman
Web Site: http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/4017/

MODERATOR NOTE: Contact information for the Chairman of the Association
was deleted. JewishGen's policy is not to violate personal privacy by
posting the address, telephone number or email address of another
individual in the Discussion Group. Please contact Ada Holtzman at
<ada01@...> for more information.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen An Appeal to all survivors and descendants from Rozan, Poland #general

Ada Holtzman <ada01@...>
 

On behalf of The Association of the Former Jewish Residents of Rozan Nad
Narev, Poland in Israel I appeal to all survivors and descendants >from
that town to contact the chairman in order to
participate in two special memorial projects.

One project is building a memorial monument in the center of town, on
the plot where once stood the grand synagogue of town before the
destruction, and restoration of the Rozan's old Jewish Cemetery.

The second project is posting the Yizkor book of Rozan, English part
and translations >from the Yiddish and Hebrew parts in JewishGen Yizkor
Books database.

Thank you, shalom,

Ada Holtzman
Web Site: http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/4017/

MODERATOR NOTE: Contact information for the Chairman of the Association
was deleted. JewishGen's policy is not to violate personal privacy by
posting the address, telephone number or email address of another
individual in the Discussion Group. Please contact Ada Holtzman at
<ada01@...> for more information.


Kaligia? - Birthplace in 1920 census #general

LClauson@...
 

Relative lists as his birthplace, Kaligia. Letter "g" could be "z"
or "y". There is no listing in Where Once We Walked. Most census
listed birthplaces are countries. Nothing in Jewishgen search records.
Appreciate any ideas.

Thanks

Lois Clauson
California


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Kaligia? - Birthplace in 1920 census #general

LClauson@...
 

Relative lists as his birthplace, Kaligia. Letter "g" could be "z"
or "y". There is no listing in Where Once We Walked. Most census
listed birthplaces are countries. Nothing in Jewishgen search records.
Appreciate any ideas.

Thanks

Lois Clauson
California


seeking Philip Siegel of Har Nof, Israel #general

Saul Goldstone <sgoldsto@...>
 

Jewisgeners,

I found the following person (Philip Gary Siegel) in the JGFF database and
have sent him an email which has bounced back as "undeliverable". If anyone
knows his correct email address .... please send it to me.

Phillip Gary Siegel (#14629)
Har Nof Israel
pgs@...

Thanks,
Saul Goldstone
Saratoga, California
sgoldsto@...


No Spammers Please Explain #general

Carol Raspler
 

Not all of us are totally computer literate - yet. So for our sake, could
those of you with this "no spam" business in your addresses please tell us
exactly how to contact you when you send a letter to the Discussion
Group? Or am I out of line here?

[Aaron Gross re Philadelphia Yiddish newspapers please copy and get in
touch with me].

Thanks to all for your patience and understanding.
Carol Raspler, Delray Beach, FL


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen seeking Philip Siegel of Har Nof, Israel #general

Saul Goldstone <sgoldsto@...>
 

Jewisgeners,

I found the following person (Philip Gary Siegel) in the JGFF database and
have sent him an email which has bounced back as "undeliverable". If anyone
knows his correct email address .... please send it to me.

Phillip Gary Siegel (#14629)
Har Nof Israel
pgs@...

Thanks,
Saul Goldstone
Saratoga, California
sgoldsto@...


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen No Spammers Please Explain #general

Carol Raspler
 

Not all of us are totally computer literate - yet. So for our sake, could
those of you with this "no spam" business in your addresses please tell us
exactly how to contact you when you send a letter to the Discussion
Group? Or am I out of line here?

[Aaron Gross re Philadelphia Yiddish newspapers please copy and get in
touch with me].

Thanks to all for your patience and understanding.
Carol Raspler, Delray Beach, FL


Passport Applications #general

Foodphile@...
 

Can someone please point me in the right direction to get a copy of a
passport application for a passport issued in New York, in the 1940's
(after the war?) Thanks very much.
Meryl Persky
Calabasas, Ca.
DUNITZ (DONETZ), Kovel, Ukr. SALZMAN, Ukr. KETCHMAN, Ukr. HIRSCH, Grybow
area, Pol. LEDER, Ryglice, Pol, TEPPER, Galicia KELLNER, Ostropol, Russia
COHEN, Ostropol, Russia SCHEIER (SCHAJER)(SCHEUER), Grybow area, Pol.
SPERBER, Galicia. KARTAGENER, Tuchow, Pol. GRUNBERG (GREENBERG) Kishinev.
GELLER, Grybow/Tarnow.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Passport Applications #general

Foodphile@...
 

Can someone please point me in the right direction to get a copy of a
passport application for a passport issued in New York, in the 1940's
(after the war?) Thanks very much.
Meryl Persky
Calabasas, Ca.
DUNITZ (DONETZ), Kovel, Ukr. SALZMAN, Ukr. KETCHMAN, Ukr. HIRSCH, Grybow
area, Pol. LEDER, Ryglice, Pol, TEPPER, Galicia KELLNER, Ostropol, Russia
COHEN, Ostropol, Russia SCHEIER (SCHAJER)(SCHEUER), Grybow area, Pol.
SPERBER, Galicia. KARTAGENER, Tuchow, Pol. GRUNBERG (GREENBERG) Kishinev.
GELLER, Grybow/Tarnow.


Jewish genealogy with a twist #general

Ilya Zeldes <ilyaz@...>
 

May someone in Boston area make a lookup in the Boston City Business
Directory (1920-1930) for an Armenian Newspaper (or magazine) AREV. I'm
looking for someone associated with this publication.
Thank you for any assistance.
P.S. Interlibrary loan was unable to obtain a copy of this publication...

Ilya Zeldes
ILYAZ@...


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Jewish genealogy with a twist #general

Ilya Zeldes <ilyaz@...>
 

May someone in Boston area make a lookup in the Boston City Business
Directory (1920-1930) for an Armenian Newspaper (or magazine) AREV. I'm
looking for someone associated with this publication.
Thank you for any assistance.
P.S. Interlibrary loan was unable to obtain a copy of this publication...

Ilya Zeldes
ILYAZ@...


Re: Nationality #galicia

Peter Jassem <jassep@...>
 

In response to my recent posting on Gesher Galicia SIG I received a letter
from one of our members. I think the issue is important so I decided to
respond in public.

The letter says:
Thanks, any Jew born in Galica should be considered Jewish, not Polish,
Ukrainian, etc. The thought of my grandparents being "considered"
Ukrainian (or any of the others) makes me physically ill. The governments
and most of the people did not consider the Jews to be Polish, Ukranian,
nor, God forbid, German. And neither should we. Regards, H...
Dear H..., your comment is very emotional and I understand this. The
historical fact however is that some Jews, especially in large cities like
Krakow or Lwow and in particular intelligentsia considered themselves
Polish. Those who live in Poland now and are aware of their Jewishness, like
famous intellectual Adam Michnik, consider themselves Polish just as much as
Senator Libermann considers himself American. The same logic applies to
other countries.

And as ill as it may sound to you (and I don't like it either) many Jews
before the Holocaust were proud to be German. I think it is important to
realize this historical truth in order to understand the true dimension of
the Holocaust tragedy and betrayal.

Peter Jaseem
jassep@...
Toronto, Ontario


Schelly Talalay Dardashti's email #general

Myra S. Davis <myrabokpg@...>
 

Dear Geners,
Sorry to send this out to the digest but I have an email address for
Schelly >from 1998 which is bounching so it is probably outdated. Anyone
know her currant one or Schelly please write me. Need to ask question.
Thanks to all

Myra Davis, Tucson, AZ
myrabokpg@...

MODERATOR NOTE: Always check the JewishGen Discussion Group Archives for
the latest email address.