Date   

Re: Deriving "Facts" From Others' Research #general

Sally Bruckheimer <sallybru@...>
 

Recently Naomi Zikmund-Fisher wrote:

"I recently got hold of an extensive
genealogy of the Vilna Gaon which includes my great grandparents.
As I have begun inputting it into my computer, I noticed a mistake:
my great grandmother's sister's name is wrong, and her granddaughter
is listed as her daughter. "

I would not want to give the impression that everything written in books is
wrong-far >from it. But everything written in books and other sources must
be considered as 'probable' unless we can 'prove' that they are right with
primary source material. Primary sources are documents made at the time of
the event.

A primary source for someone's birth would be a birth record made at the
time of that person's birth. In the Kingdom of Poland, records say that
so-and-so showed me his baby born today or yesterday and give the
information about it. It is still possible that the information entered is
wrong-that happens, but it is much more likely that an index taken >from the
records has further errors. Someone writing a book has to look at a lot of
primary and non-primary documents and do the best he can. Unless every
fact has been checked with existing primary documents, there are likely
errors. Even then there are editing and typographical errors which can
sneak in. Even when we have primary sources, there can be discrepancies-so
it is best to have more than one primary source. Hopefully they agree.

Having looked at Amsterdam records and Cecil Roth's History of the
Marrano's, I have found that even the great author was wrong on some minor
points, according to primary sources. That does not mean that his book is
not excellent. We genealogists are looking at the details, while an author
is covering the 'big picture' usually. We look at one branch of one tree
and not the forest.

But what of the real world. The birth, marriage, and death records of the
town my great grandfather was born in do not exist. Do I give up? No. I
have a copy of a picture of my great great grandfather's tombstone, taken
between the world wars probably. Far >from primary. I have the marriage
record of a great great uncle who lived in a nearby town with some other
information about my 3d great grandfather. This all agrees that he was
Ephraim. He died before the marriage. He was born before his kids-and I
don't know exactly when they were born. In fact, I don't have their birth
records so I don't 'know' they are related. So what do I have? A mixture
of non-primary information. If I wrote a book I would say that Ephraim
Moshewicz had at least 3 sons and give their names and information. His
wife was Michli. None of this is proven. It is the best I can do at this
time.

Read old health or science-or watch something on TV. They used leeches to
cure pneumonia. It was the best that they knew to do at that time. Now in
the US we have the FDA to make sure that there are good tests of drugs to
treat pneumonia-the primary source material for the field. We don't have
that luxury as genealogists!

Sally Bruckheimer
Buffalo, NY


Re: Red Cross International Tracing Service #general

JGyori@...
 

One should know that sometimes the information on those DP camp cards may
be "enhanced" A have a copy of my father's card. He made his age younger
to seem more needy, lied that he wanted to go to Israel to make himself
seem more appealing and generally embroidered the details to make him more
likely to receive aid!!!

It was a time when, I think, alot of survivors did what they had to one
more time to survive. So remember as with almost every record we
researchers find -- it may still not be "what really happened." Wouldn't
it be nice, just once? But I still love the chase!

Judi Missel
Arizona ISA


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Deriving "Facts" From Others' Research #general

Sally Bruckheimer <sallybru@...>
 

Recently Naomi Zikmund-Fisher wrote:

"I recently got hold of an extensive
genealogy of the Vilna Gaon which includes my great grandparents.
As I have begun inputting it into my computer, I noticed a mistake:
my great grandmother's sister's name is wrong, and her granddaughter
is listed as her daughter. "

I would not want to give the impression that everything written in books is
wrong-far >from it. But everything written in books and other sources must
be considered as 'probable' unless we can 'prove' that they are right with
primary source material. Primary sources are documents made at the time of
the event.

A primary source for someone's birth would be a birth record made at the
time of that person's birth. In the Kingdom of Poland, records say that
so-and-so showed me his baby born today or yesterday and give the
information about it. It is still possible that the information entered is
wrong-that happens, but it is much more likely that an index taken >from the
records has further errors. Someone writing a book has to look at a lot of
primary and non-primary documents and do the best he can. Unless every
fact has been checked with existing primary documents, there are likely
errors. Even then there are editing and typographical errors which can
sneak in. Even when we have primary sources, there can be discrepancies-so
it is best to have more than one primary source. Hopefully they agree.

Having looked at Amsterdam records and Cecil Roth's History of the
Marrano's, I have found that even the great author was wrong on some minor
points, according to primary sources. That does not mean that his book is
not excellent. We genealogists are looking at the details, while an author
is covering the 'big picture' usually. We look at one branch of one tree
and not the forest.

But what of the real world. The birth, marriage, and death records of the
town my great grandfather was born in do not exist. Do I give up? No. I
have a copy of a picture of my great great grandfather's tombstone, taken
between the world wars probably. Far >from primary. I have the marriage
record of a great great uncle who lived in a nearby town with some other
information about my 3d great grandfather. This all agrees that he was
Ephraim. He died before the marriage. He was born before his kids-and I
don't know exactly when they were born. In fact, I don't have their birth
records so I don't 'know' they are related. So what do I have? A mixture
of non-primary information. If I wrote a book I would say that Ephraim
Moshewicz had at least 3 sons and give their names and information. His
wife was Michli. None of this is proven. It is the best I can do at this
time.

Read old health or science-or watch something on TV. They used leeches to
cure pneumonia. It was the best that they knew to do at that time. Now in
the US we have the FDA to make sure that there are good tests of drugs to
treat pneumonia-the primary source material for the field. We don't have
that luxury as genealogists!

Sally Bruckheimer
Buffalo, NY


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Red Cross International Tracing Service #general

JGyori@...
 

One should know that sometimes the information on those DP camp cards may
be "enhanced" A have a copy of my father's card. He made his age younger
to seem more needy, lied that he wanted to go to Israel to make himself
seem more appealing and generally embroidered the details to make him more
likely to receive aid!!!

It was a time when, I think, alot of survivors did what they had to one
more time to survive. So remember as with almost every record we
researchers find -- it may still not be "what really happened." Wouldn't
it be nice, just once? But I still love the chase!

Judi Missel
Arizona ISA


Re: male or female?, & Dragasimov #general

Alexander Sharon <a.sharon@...>
 

Mervin,

1.Salo used to be popular abbreviation (nickname) of name Salomon in
Poland.

2. Extracted >from ShtetlSeeker:
Dragasymuv (current Ukrainian name) (Drahasymow - original Polish),
coordinates: 4824 2524
Kolomyya is located 19 miles WNW, and Knyazhe (Polish: Kniaze) is 2 miles E
from Dragasymow
Both Dragasymow and Knyazhe are within town Sniatyn, Ivano-Frankivsk (ex
Stanislawow) disctrict of ex Eastern Galicia

Dragasymuv had Jewish population of 38 souls out of 715 total populace in
1921 census, town is listed in Mokotoff-Sack WOWW gazetteer, but not not
listed yet in JGFF database.

3. Eisenkraft name is listed in JGFF database.
You should contact researcher # 30721, who is searching for this name in
towns Rusov and Chernovtsy.
Reason for this advice is that Rusov is located 10 miles NE from
Dragasymuv - there is probably connection. Please refer to JGFF listing and
researcher #30721 email address.

4. M. Eisenkraft is listed as general store owner in Knyazhe in 1929 Poland
Business directory
J. Eisenkraft is listed as general store owner in Sniatyn
J. Eisenkraft is listed as liquor store owner in Sniatyn
F. Eisenkraft is listed as grain merchant in Sniatyn

5. No data for Eisenkraft name appears in SIG discussion groups, JG
discussion group Archives or 1891 Galicia Business Directory.
6. United Sniatyner Sick and Benevolent Society, Inc.(ex: The Sniatyner
Kranken Unt) in Manhattan at:
http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetLinks/sniatyn/sniatyn.html
may be of more assistance and obviously Gesher Galicia discussion group is
the best forum to exchange information between the Galitzyaners.

Hope this help.

Alexander Sharon
Calgary, Alberta, Canada

<MERVINAF@aol.com> wrote in message news:26.a44dc0f.26e2e7e0@aol.com...
I have a letter written in 1921 to my mother >from Dragasimov,
Ukraine >from Salo Eisenkraft. Does this name mean anything to
anyone out there? Was a male or female? Can someone be kind
enough to tell me just exactly where Dragasimov is in relation
to Kniaze or Kolomyya.

Mervin Fahn,
Sacramento, California


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: male or female?, & Dragasimov #general

Alexander Sharon <a.sharon@...>
 

Mervin,

1.Salo used to be popular abbreviation (nickname) of name Salomon in
Poland.

2. Extracted >from ShtetlSeeker:
Dragasymuv (current Ukrainian name) (Drahasymow - original Polish),
coordinates: 4824 2524
Kolomyya is located 19 miles WNW, and Knyazhe (Polish: Kniaze) is 2 miles E
from Dragasymow
Both Dragasymow and Knyazhe are within town Sniatyn, Ivano-Frankivsk (ex
Stanislawow) disctrict of ex Eastern Galicia

Dragasymuv had Jewish population of 38 souls out of 715 total populace in
1921 census, town is listed in Mokotoff-Sack WOWW gazetteer, but not not
listed yet in JGFF database.

3. Eisenkraft name is listed in JGFF database.
You should contact researcher # 30721, who is searching for this name in
towns Rusov and Chernovtsy.
Reason for this advice is that Rusov is located 10 miles NE from
Dragasymuv - there is probably connection. Please refer to JGFF listing and
researcher #30721 email address.

4. M. Eisenkraft is listed as general store owner in Knyazhe in 1929 Poland
Business directory
J. Eisenkraft is listed as general store owner in Sniatyn
J. Eisenkraft is listed as liquor store owner in Sniatyn
F. Eisenkraft is listed as grain merchant in Sniatyn

5. No data for Eisenkraft name appears in SIG discussion groups, JG
discussion group Archives or 1891 Galicia Business Directory.
6. United Sniatyner Sick and Benevolent Society, Inc.(ex: The Sniatyner
Kranken Unt) in Manhattan at:
http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetLinks/sniatyn/sniatyn.html
may be of more assistance and obviously Gesher Galicia discussion group is
the best forum to exchange information between the Galitzyaners.

Hope this help.

Alexander Sharon
Calgary, Alberta, Canada

<MERVINAF@aol.com> wrote in message news:26.a44dc0f.26e2e7e0@aol.com...
I have a letter written in 1921 to my mother >from Dragasimov,
Ukraine >from Salo Eisenkraft. Does this name mean anything to
anyone out there? Was a male or female? Can someone be kind
enough to tell me just exactly where Dragasimov is in relation
to Kniaze or Kolomyya.

Mervin Fahn,
Sacramento, California


Re: A questions about Russian Marriage Records #general

Leon.Koll@...
 

It means that:
- father is alive ;
- father is registered (rus."pripisan", cyr."npupucaH" >from "pripiska" -
"registration") in Tarascha and got the passport there. He might live in
some other place but had to appear in "zemskaya uprava" (dept. of
ministry of interior?) of Tarascha every N years to renew his passport.

Leon

In article, "Yosef Ash" <j_ash@netvision.net.il> wrote:

Shalom, Pat.
You ask:
----- Original Message -----
Subject: A questions about Russian Marriage Records
Having located a marriage record >from the Ukraine I need clarification
opn the following:
Daughter of(name of father),a townsman of Tarascha,does this refer to
the fact that the father was born in Tarascha,or now lives in Tarascha,
if the father was already deceased would this statement "a townsman of
Tarascha" still show on this, his daughter's, marriage record.
> Pat Futoran

As far as I remember, the Russian word you have translated as "townsman"
means literally "he who lives in..." or something like it.(If you could
send me the transliteration of the word...).
Anyway it doesn't mean he was born in Tarashcha,the Russian language has
the spetial word for the French "nee" - "urozhenets".
Is he had been deceased they would use the word "pokojnyj"-"the late" or
the word, corresponding to the Hebrew "za"l".
Good luck,
Dr. Josef ASH


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: A questions about Russian Marriage Records #general

Leon.Koll@...
 

It means that:
- father is alive ;
- father is registered (rus."pripisan", cyr."npupucaH" >from "pripiska" -
"registration") in Tarascha and got the passport there. He might live in
some other place but had to appear in "zemskaya uprava" (dept. of
ministry of interior?) of Tarascha every N years to renew his passport.

Leon

In article, "Yosef Ash" <j_ash@netvision.net.il> wrote:

Shalom, Pat.
You ask:
----- Original Message -----
Subject: A questions about Russian Marriage Records
Having located a marriage record >from the Ukraine I need clarification
opn the following:
Daughter of(name of father),a townsman of Tarascha,does this refer to
the fact that the father was born in Tarascha,or now lives in Tarascha,
if the father was already deceased would this statement "a townsman of
Tarascha" still show on this, his daughter's, marriage record.
> Pat Futoran

As far as I remember, the Russian word you have translated as "townsman"
means literally "he who lives in..." or something like it.(If you could
send me the transliteration of the word...).
Anyway it doesn't mean he was born in Tarashcha,the Russian language has
the spetial word for the French "nee" - "urozhenets".
Is he had been deceased they would use the word "pokojnyj"-"the late" or
the word, corresponding to the Hebrew "za"l".
Good luck,
Dr. Josef ASH


Researching the name Feicza Fani TIEFENBRUENER #general

Willie Glaser <velvel@...>
 

Searching for descendants, relatives or persons who know of:
Feicza Fani TIEFENBRUENER., born about 1855 in Klasny. In 1886, Feicza
married Salamon KRIESER in Oswiecim.
Parents of Feicza are: Mojzesz and Rachla BIENENTHAL.
Thank you,
Willie Glaser, St. Laurent Que., Canada


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Researching the name Feicza Fani TIEFENBRUENER #general

Willie Glaser <velvel@...>
 

Searching for descendants, relatives or persons who know of:
Feicza Fani TIEFENBRUENER., born about 1855 in Klasny. In 1886, Feicza
married Salamon KRIESER in Oswiecim.
Parents of Feicza are: Mojzesz and Rachla BIENENTHAL.
Thank you,
Willie Glaser, St. Laurent Que., Canada


GOLDENWEISER family #general

Manuel Aicher <aicher@...>
 

I am looking for descendants of

Moritz GOLDENWEISER and his wife Marie SMIRNOW who lived in Moscow in
Russia in the 1880ies. I would be very happy if any descendants or
others who know more abouth this couple or their descendants would
contact me at

aicher@eyekon.ch

Manuel Aicher
Dietikon,Switzerland


researching the following #general

Yonasan Shapiro <shapie@...>
 

Stuchinsky,Filipow,Poland
,Wolker,fristik,Poland
Nissenbaum/Nusbaum,grajewo,Poland
Fajnstadt/Feinstein,Pinczow,poland
Shapiro, Russia
Gordon, Lithuania
Liebman,Kobrin, belarus
Grossman/stropkov, Slovakia
I will be studying in Israel for this year so I
will temporarily sign off Jewish Gen discussion group.
please e-mail me at yonni_25@yahoo,com

Yonasan Shapiro


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen GOLDENWEISER family #general

Manuel Aicher <aicher@...>
 

I am looking for descendants of

Moritz GOLDENWEISER and his wife Marie SMIRNOW who lived in Moscow in
Russia in the 1880ies. I would be very happy if any descendants or
others who know more abouth this couple or their descendants would
contact me at

aicher@eyekon.ch

Manuel Aicher
Dietikon,Switzerland


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen researching the following #general

Yonasan Shapiro <shapie@...>
 

Stuchinsky,Filipow,Poland
,Wolker,fristik,Poland
Nissenbaum/Nusbaum,grajewo,Poland
Fajnstadt/Feinstein,Pinczow,poland
Shapiro, Russia
Gordon, Lithuania
Liebman,Kobrin, belarus
Grossman/stropkov, Slovakia
I will be studying in Israel for this year so I
will temporarily sign off Jewish Gen discussion group.
please e-mail me at yonni_25@yahoo,com

Yonasan Shapiro


Small Corrections #general

Fritz Neubauer
 

<< The following occupations, in German, are listed for my family in the
Lodz Ghetto. Could someone please translate them for me?

schueler
==scholar, most likely a young boy in grade or high school

Correction: More likely just pupil in school

garber
==Garbe is a sheaf or bundle. Garber is probably someone who ties
or bundles things, anything >from firewood to raw pelts, I'd guess

Correction: The word in question is probably "Gerber", somebody who
produces leather >from animal skins

Fritz Neubauer
North Germany


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Small Corrections #general

Fritz Neubauer
 

<< The following occupations, in German, are listed for my family in the
Lodz Ghetto. Could someone please translate them for me?

schueler
==scholar, most likely a young boy in grade or high school

Correction: More likely just pupil in school

garber
==Garbe is a sheaf or bundle. Garber is probably someone who ties
or bundles things, anything >from firewood to raw pelts, I'd guess

Correction: The word in question is probably "Gerber", somebody who
produces leather >from animal skins

Fritz Neubauer
North Germany


JewishGenners say Buy! Buy! to AuctionHouse! #general

Clankarol@...
 

A little bit of gentle persuasion has paid off. Since I sent out a
reminder about the Auction House a number of you have made some very
generous donations.

So, what are some of the great offers this week?

Two years worth of Avotaynu magazines- a must for any family historian.
Research at Yad Vashem- Hall of Names.
Russian-English translation, Italian Family Document translation, Books,
scarves and plenty more...

But you'll have to see for yourself by clicking on:
http://www.jewishgen.org/auction/ to see what's on offer.

Remember, all proceeds go to help the Operations Budget. This is your
chance to help us help you.

Cheers,
Karol Schlosser
AuctionHouse Project Volunteer


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen JewishGenners say Buy! Buy! to AuctionHouse! #general

Clankarol@...
 

A little bit of gentle persuasion has paid off. Since I sent out a
reminder about the Auction House a number of you have made some very
generous donations.

So, what are some of the great offers this week?

Two years worth of Avotaynu magazines- a must for any family historian.
Research at Yad Vashem- Hall of Names.
Russian-English translation, Italian Family Document translation, Books,
scarves and plenty more...

But you'll have to see for yourself by clicking on:
http://www.jewishgen.org/auction/ to see what's on offer.

Remember, all proceeds go to help the Operations Budget. This is your
chance to help us help you.

Cheers,
Karol Schlosser
AuctionHouse Project Volunteer


FRANK of Franksville, WIS #general

Nina Fantl <fantl@...>
 

My ancestor with surname of FRANK allegedly founded Franksville,
Wisconsin in 1800's. Is related to Lawrence FRANK who is the one who
started "Lawry's" company of seasonings fame.
My ancestor is Norma Frank, born in Milwaukee, WI, in 1890's, descended
from Moses Montefiore Frank and Isaac Frank who came to Milwaukee in
1840's. Norma's mother was Charlotte STEIN of Budapest and/or
Milwaukee.
Any information about these folks would be appreciated.
fantl@texas.net


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen FRANK of Franksville, WIS #general

Nina Fantl <fantl@...>
 

My ancestor with surname of FRANK allegedly founded Franksville,
Wisconsin in 1800's. Is related to Lawrence FRANK who is the one who
started "Lawry's" company of seasonings fame.
My ancestor is Norma Frank, born in Milwaukee, WI, in 1890's, descended
from Moses Montefiore Frank and Isaac Frank who came to Milwaukee in
1840's. Norma's mother was Charlotte STEIN of Budapest and/or
Milwaukee.
Any information about these folks would be appreciated.
fantl@texas.net